Jokic is not the best in the world, and has been heavily overrated (NOW YOU CAN CHANGE VOTES)

[AleksandarN]

We already know jokic is the king of stats. Good job providing more evidence. Luka actually plays to win

Jokic already has a ring. Luka doesn't so its the other way around boy.

Give Luka Jamal Murray instead of Kyrie and he loses in 1st round.

47 TS% vs 60% give me a break.

Put Luka on the Nuggets and they have 2-3 rings. Jokic won one ring where he didn't beat a single 50 win team with an all time supporting cast. Luka beat better teams in the first round than jokic beat in the finals. Then he did it for another two series.

You mean the same teams that made the playoffs when the Luka didnt last year.

[Johnny Firpo]

I don't get this hate from Mavs fans and will never participate in this. The two players are friends, and Luka would tell you first that Jokic is still the best player in the game, and until Luka and the Mavs win it all, this will likely remain the case. The "best player in the game" title is probably there for Doncic, but he has to take it, like Joker did.

[UglyBugBall]

Jokic already has a ring. Luka doesn't so its the other way around boy.

Give Luka Jamal Murray instead of Kyrie and he loses in 1st round.

47 TS% vs 60% give me a break.

Put Luka on the Nuggets and they have 2-3 rings. Jokic won one ring where he didn't beat a single 50 win team with an all time supporting cast. Luka beat better teams in the first round than jokic beat in the finals. Then he did it for another two series.

You mean the same teams that made the playoffs when the Luka didnt last year.

He chose to not make it to draft D-Live, who is an integral championship piece now. He's focused on making winning plays, not on chasing stats.

[UglyBugBall]

I don't get this hate from Mavs fans and will never participate in this. The two players are friends, and Luka would tell you first that Jokic is still the best player in the game, and until Luka and the Mavs win it all, this will likely remain the case. The "best player in the game" title is probably there for Doncic, but he has to take it, like Joker did.

Luka doesn't have to take it anymore. Jokic lost it in the second round.

[CD_41]

I don't get this hate from Mavs fans and will never participate in this. The two players are friends, and Luka would tell you first that Jokic is still the best player in the game, and until Luka and the Mavs win it all, this will likely remain the case. The "best player in the game" title is probably there for Doncic, but he has to take it, like Joker did.

Luka doesn't have to take it anymore. Jokic lost it in the second round.

As a fellow Mavs fan, I have to say that you weird smear campaign against Jokic is a) not working, cause the people in here are smart enough too see what you`re trying to do and b) and is also badly executed. If you want to show any signs of a nuanced and solid opinion you should try to work on the way you present your arguments. As soon as I read "heavily overrated" and Jokic in the same sentence I can already tell this is just some undercomplex BS that does not really try to have a nuaced debate.

Slightly overrated? Ok, still not my opinion, but at least we can engage in a conversation.
Be better, man.

[UglyBugBall]

I don't get this hate from Mavs fans and will never participate in this. The two players are friends, and Luka would tell you first that Jokic is still the best player in the game, and until Luka and the Mavs win it all, this will likely remain the case. The "best player in the game" title is probably there for Doncic, but he has to take it, like Joker did.

Luka doesn't have to take it anymore. Jokic lost it in the second round.

As a fellow Mavs fan, I have to say that you weird smear campaign against Jokic is a) not working, cause the people in here are smart enough too see what you`re trying to do and b) and is also badly executed. If you want to show any signs of a nuanced and solid opinion you should try to work on the way you present your arguments. As soon as I read "heavily overrated" and Jokic in the same sentence I can already tell this is just some undercomplex BS that does not really try to have a nuaced debate.

Slightly overrated? Ok, still not my opinion, but at least we can engage in a conversation.
Be better, man.

Saying he's top 20 all-time, and the best player in the NBA would be slightly overrated. Posters saying he's top 10 ATG, and comparing him to peak MJ, Shaq and Lebron put him firmly in the heavily overrated category. RealGM be better.

[web123888]

I’d rather have Doncic as a closer / in the clutch. We saw Jokic struggle to close games late vs the T-Wolves. Due to the position he plays and his size he’s not the same level of shot creator in the clutch that Doncic is.

Doncic has basically probably been the best late game closer since he was a 20 year old kid and had that epic game winner vs the Clippers in the bubble. Has been a prodigy since he entered the league, far advanced for his age.

[BelgradeNugget]

I don't get this hate from Mavs fans and will never participate in this. The two players are friends, and Luka would tell you first that Jokic is still the best player in the game, and until Luka and the Mavs win it all, this will likely remain the case. The "best player in the game" title is probably there for Doncic, but he has to take it, like Joker did.

Don't take it on yourself as Mavs fan. It is not "hate from Mavs fans" it is one specific "Mavs" fan (question is - is he Mavs fan after all) and one specific Embiid/Harden fan that keep these threads going. Only they know their reasons. But as I told them, hate is not the best way to go through life.

Good luck in the rest of the playoffs. One more thing. Last year Nuggets and Miami were in the same position as Boston and Dallas. Nuggets finished job in 4 and had plenty of rest. Miami had to play 7 games, they were exhausted and had no chance in the final. Mavs must finish this in the next 1-2 games because if they end in game 6 or 7 and they go to rested Boston I don't think they will have good chance.

[AleksandarN]

Put Luka on the Nuggets and they have 2-3 rings. Jokic won one ring where he didn't beat a single 50 win team with an all time supporting cast. Luka beat better teams in the first round than jokic beat in the finals. Then he did it for another two series.

You mean the same teams that made the playoffs when the Luka didnt last year.

He chose to not make it to draft D-Live, who is an integral championship piece now. He's focused on making winning plays, not on chasing stats.

You said winning which Luka didn’t. Heck Jokic had an even worse team the year before last and still won 48 games. I guess Luka is not a winner like Jokic according to your own logic. You’re easy work son.

[hardenASG13]

When hating is the meaning of your life you will never be happy. Try to change

What a tired, lazy comment. I just am an observant basketball nut who doesn't see it with Jokic. Like, my description above is accurate. Don't hate Jokic at all, he's one of if not the best in the league. Luka has looked like the better centerpiece to me though for what I'd want in a competitive playoff series, EPM*Rapm score be damned.

No, you are obsessed with him. You do everything you can to diminish his acomplishments. You were pushing Jokic didn't beat 50 win team in the playoffs narative. So, your argument was proven week because by winning precentage both Clippers and Jazz would have been 50 win teams in 2019 if there were 82 games. But then you push weak title run argument. So, were Dallas with Luka and Kyrie on Mars last season? Somebody prevented them from participating in the playoffs. Minnesota was there too as were Bucks, Miami, Boston, Lakers, GSW, NYK, Suns, all the best teams in the league. Why you try to downplay his accomplishments? He is at home resting and doesn't think of basketball any more as are your two favorite players Embiid and Harden for even longer time, but you are still fighting with Jokic ghosts.
Time to take your madications and go to vacation man, this is getting out of hand.

This post couldn't be more wrong. Dallas had injuries, a bad roster, and integrated kyrie last year. It was embarrassing they didn't make the playoffs, but things happened. I only rag on Jokic never beating good teams because I see people every few days here all season start topics about him being the best player ever (and rudely, smugly attack anyone who questions it......kind of like youre doing now).I don't see that about Luka. You'd expect the best player ever to have done more than beat the bubble Jazz and Clippers on the back of superstar performances by Murray.

None of the teams Denver beat were contender caliber teams last year. That's not hating, it's true. I don't see it as much of an accomplishment, said so all season, questioned how they'd look against quality opponents this year.....and they lost to the first one they played, in embarrassing fashion.

I'm not a fan of Harden or Embiid. Harden is washed up and Embiid imo is as good as anyone, but can't stay healthy in the playoffs.

It's not "time to take my madications and go on vacation," just because I'm pointing out ways that Luka is playing better, more effective basketball than Jokic. It's the freaking playoffs. These are the games that I and most fans look forward to and watch the most. Jokic was the most talked about player here all season. I can remember last year when Embiid won MVP and lost in the second round in 7 games. He was mocked for months, called a fraud MVP. We'll, Jokic just did the same thing (but on his home court), and his game wasn't overwhelming or dynamic outside of 2 of the 7 games in that series. But it's not OK to talk about it the week after because it's Jokic? I'm not the one sounding hurt here.....

[nikster]

I’d rather have Doncic as a closer / in the clutch. We saw Jokic struggle to close games late vs the T-Wolves. Due to the position he plays and his size he’s not the same level of shot creator in the clutch that Doncic is.

Doncic has basically probably been the best late game closer since he was a 20 year old kid and had that epic game winner vs the Clippers in the bubble. Has been a prodigy since he entered the league, far advanced for his age.

In the 3 close games in that Wolves series (games 1, 4 and 7) Jokic scored 10, 16 and 14 points I'm the 4th quarter

[BelgradeNugget]

What a tired, lazy comment. I just am an observant basketball nut who doesn't see it with Jokic. Like, my description above is accurate. Don't hate Jokic at all, he's one of if not the best in the league. Luka has looked like the better centerpiece to me though for what I'd want in a competitive playoff series, EPM*Rapm score be damned.

No, you are obsessed with him. You do everything you can to diminish his acomplishments. You were pushing Jokic didn't beat 50 win team in the playoffs narative. So, your argument was proven week because by winning precentage both Clippers and Jazz would have been 50 win teams in 2019 if there were 82 games. But then you push weak title run argument. So, were Dallas with Luka and Kyrie on Mars last season? Somebody prevented them from participating in the playoffs. Minnesota was there too as were Bucks, Miami, Boston, Lakers, GSW, NYK, Suns, all the best teams in the league. Why you try to downplay his accomplishments? He is at home resting and doesn't think of basketball any more as are your two favorite players Embiid and Harden for even longer time, but you are still fighting with Jokic ghosts.
Time to take your madications and go to vacation man, this is getting out of hand.

This post couldn't be more wrong. Dallas had injuries, a bad roster, and integrated kyrie last year. It was embarrassing they didn't make the playoffs, but things happened. I only rag on Jokic never beating good teams because I see people every few days here all season start topics about him being the best player ever (and rudely, smugly attack anyone who questions it......kind of like youre doing now).I don't see that about Luka. You'd expect the best player ever to have done more than beat the bubble Jazz and Clippers on the back of superstar performances by Murray.

None of the teams Denver beat were contender caliber teams last year. That's not hating, it's true. I don't see it as much of an accomplishment, said so all season, questioned how they'd look against quality opponents this year.....and they lost to the first one they played, in embarrassing fashion.

I'm not a fan of Harden or Embiid. Harden is washed up and Embiid imo is as good as anyone, but can't stay healthy in the playoffs.

It's not "time to take my madications and go on vacation," just because I'm pointing out ways that Luka is playing better, more effective basketball than Jokic. It's the freaking playoffs. These are the games that I and most fans look forward to and watch the most. Jokic was the most talked about player here all season. I can remember last year when Embiid won MVP and lost in the second round in 7 games. He was mocked for months, called a fraud MVP. We'll, Jokic just did the same thing (but on his home court), and his game wasn't overwhelming or dynamic outside of 2 of the 7 games in that series. But it's not OK to talk about it the week after because it's Jokic? I'm not the one sounding hurt here.....

"I see people every few days here all season start topics about him being the best player ever"
I understand how some people could be pissed because of these kind of topics and I never go to these threads. If you want to argue about these topics, go there. There is no reason to create new ones to downplay his accomplishments.

"You'd expect the best player ever to have done more than beat the bubble Jazz and Clippers on the back of superstar performances by Murray. "
This is what I'm talking about. Jokic didn't play good in these series?

"None of the teams Denver beat were contender caliber teams last year."
Name me contender caliber teams from last season they skiped

I can remember last year when Embiid won MVP and lost in the second round in 7 games. He was mocked for months, called a fraud MVP.
That was probably because the year before when Jokic lost in the 1st round with half Nuggets missing due to injury, Embiids fans jumped on here to call Jokic fraud, the worst MVP ever, together with Kluch controlled media. The difference is Jokic won a chip and proved he is good to be 1st option on champioship winning team. He is one of 5 active players in that group with LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Kawhi and some would put KD. Embiid is not. One of Luka/Ant/Tatum will be part of this group this season. Embiid will not. Until then he is not as good as anyone. So this was what is hurting I see. Embiid fan arguing for Luka or whoever. And it is not against Jokic...

82 percent of people here answered question from you and UglyBugBall. The answer is you are wrong. So...go on vacation

[UglyBugBall]

You mean the same teams that made the playoffs when the Luka didnt last year.

He chose to not make it to draft D-Live, who is an integral championship piece now. He's focused on making winning plays, not on chasing stats.

You said winning which Luka didn’t. Heck Jokic had an even worse team the year before last and still won 48 games. I guess Luka is not a winner like Jokic according to your own logic. You’re easy work son.

Jokics 6 seed team was way better than what Luka took to the WCF a few years ago. That ends debate on itself. We're going to look back on that mvp as the worst one ever awarded, to a 6th seed that should have been top 3 even without Murray. That's how deep that team is. It's looking added the same way Boston is. Jokics lucked out and won in a weak season last year, not beating any 50 win team. Luka sacrificed last season for the draft so that he could win an all time difficult ring this season

[AleksandarN]

He chose to not make it to draft D-Live, who is an integral championship piece now. He's focused on making winning plays, not on chasing stats.

You said winning which Luka didn’t. Heck Jokic had an even worse team the year before last and still won 48 games. I guess Luka is not a winner like Jokic according to your own logic. You’re easy work son.

Jokics 6 seed team was way better than what Luka took to the WCF a few years ago. That ends debate on itself. We're going to look back on that mvp as the worst one ever awarded, to a 6th seed that should have been top 3 even without Murray. That's how deep that team is. It's looking added the same way Boston is. Jokics lucked out and won in a weak season last year, not beating any 50 win team. Luka sacrificed last season for the draft so that he could win an all time difficult ring this season

lol the team that won games without Luka that playoff run. Whereas Jokic was missing 2nd and 3rd best player and 70 million in cap space. Yeah sure. Tell me what player besides Jokic on that Nuggets teams was better than Brunson? Sacrificed last year? Really that’s loser mentality. At least Jokic had an excuse to tank in 2021. But actual competitors won’t lose on purpose. Like you said winners win. It is your logic not mine. Like I said easy work.

[Special_Puppy]

He chose to not make it to draft D-Live, who is an integral championship piece now. He's focused on making winning plays, not on chasing stats.

You said winning which Luka didn’t. Heck Jokic had an even worse team the year before last and still won 48 games. I guess Luka is not a winner like Jokic according to your own logic. You’re easy work son.

Jokics 6 seed team was way better than what Luka took to the WCF a few years ago. That ends debate on itself. We're going to look back on that mvp as the worst one ever awarded, to a 6th seed that should have been top 3 even without Murray. That's how deep that team is. It's looking added the same way Boston is. Jokics lucked out and won in a weak season last year, not beating any 50 win team. Luka sacrificed last season for the draft so that he could win an all time difficult ring this season

The starting lineup was literally Jokic-AG-Monte Morris-Will Barton+Jeff Green with Austin Rivers+Bones Hyland+Facundo Campazzo+JaMychal Green coming off the bench. That's an absolutely horrendous supporting cast compared to Luka's decent but not great supporting cast

[AleksandarN]

You said winning which Luka didn’t. Heck Jokic had an even worse team the year before last and still won 48 games. I guess Luka is not a winner like Jokic according to your own logic. You’re easy work son.

Jokics 6 seed team was way better than what Luka took to the WCF a few years ago. That ends debate on itself. We're going to look back on that mvp as the worst one ever awarded, to a 6th seed that should have been top 3 even without Murray. That's how deep that team is. It's looking added the same way Boston is. Jokics lucked out and won in a weak season last year, not beating any 50 win team. Luka sacrificed last season for the draft so that he could win an all time difficult ring this season

The starting lineup was literally Jokic-AG-Monte Morris-Will Barton+Jeff Green with Austin Rivers+Bones Hyland+Facundo Campazzo+JaMychal Green coming off the bench. That's an absolutely horrendous supporting cast compared to Luka's decent but not great supporting cast

What’s funny the Mavs won playoff games without Luka that post season. Had Brunson carry them. He is obviously either trolling or exposing his limited knowledge of basketball.

[AleksandarN]

You said winning which Luka didn’t. Heck Jokic had an even worse team the year before last and still won 48 games. I guess Luka is not a winner like Jokic according to your own logic. You’re easy work son.

Jokics 6 seed team was way better than what Luka took to the WCF a few years ago. That ends debate on itself. We're going to look back on that mvp as the worst one ever awarded, to a 6th seed that should have been top 3 even without Murray. That's how deep that team is. It's looking added the same way Boston is. Jokics lucked out and won in a weak season last year, not beating any 50 win team. Luka sacrificed last season for the draft so that he could win an all time difficult ring this season

The starting lineup was literally Jokic-AG-Monte Morris-Will Barton+Jeff Green with Austin Rivers+Bones Hyland+Facundo Campazzo+JaMychal Green coming off the bench. That's an absolutely horrendous supporting cast compared to Luka's decent but not great supporting cast

What’s funny the Mavs won playoff games without Luka that post season. Had Brunson carry them. He is obviously either trolling or exposing his limited knowledge of basketball.

[hardenASG13]

No, you are obsessed with him. You do everything you can to diminish his acomplishments. You were pushing Jokic didn't beat 50 win team in the playoffs narative. So, your argument was proven week because by winning precentage both Clippers and Jazz would have been 50 win teams in 2019 if there were 82 games. But then you push weak title run argument. So, were Dallas with Luka and Kyrie on Mars last season? Somebody prevented them from participating in the playoffs. Minnesota was there too as were Bucks, Miami, Boston, Lakers, GSW, NYK, Suns, all the best teams in the league. Why you try to downplay his accomplishments? He is at home resting and doesn't think of basketball any more as are your two favorite players Embiid and Harden for even longer time, but you are still fighting with Jokic ghosts.
Time to take your madications and go to vacation man, this is getting out of hand.

This post couldn't be more wrong. Dallas had injuries, a bad roster, and integrated kyrie last year. It was embarrassing they didn't make the playoffs, but things happened. I only rag on Jokic never beating good teams because I see people every few days here all season start topics about him being the best player ever (and rudely, smugly attack anyone who questions it......kind of like youre doing now).I don't see that about Luka. You'd expect the best player ever to have done more than beat the bubble Jazz and Clippers on the back of superstar performances by Murray.

None of the teams Denver beat were contender caliber teams last year. That's not hating, it's true. I don't see it as much of an accomplishment, said so all season, questioned how they'd look against quality opponents this year.....and they lost to the first one they played, in embarrassing fashion.

I'm not a fan of Harden or Embiid. Harden is washed up and Embiid imo is as good as anyone, but can't stay healthy in the playoffs.

It's not "time to take my madications and go on vacation," just because I'm pointing out ways that Luka is playing better, more effective basketball than Jokic. It's the freaking playoffs. These are the games that I and most fans look forward to and watch the most. Jokic was the most talked about player here all season. I can remember last year when Embiid won MVP and lost in the second round in 7 games. He was mocked for months, called a fraud MVP. We'll, Jokic just did the same thing (but on his home court), and his game wasn't overwhelming or dynamic outside of 2 of the 7 games in that series. But it's not OK to talk about it the week after because it's Jokic? I'm not the one sounding hurt here.....

"I see people every few days here all season start topics about him being the best player ever"
I understand how some people could be pissed because of these kind of topics and I never go to these threads. If you want to argue about these topics, go there. There is no reason to create new ones to downplay his accomplishments.

"You'd expect the best player ever to have done more than beat the bubble Jazz and Clippers on the back of superstar performances by Murray. "
This is what I'm talking about. Jokic didn't play good in these series?

"None of the teams Denver beat were contender caliber teams last year."
Name me contender caliber teams from last season they skiped

I can remember last year when Embiid won MVP and lost in the second round in 7 games. He was mocked for months, called a fraud MVP.
That was probably because the year before when Jokic lost in the 1st round with half Nuggets missing due to injury, Embiids fans jumped on here to call Jokic fraud, the worst MVP ever, together with Kluch controlled media. The difference is Jokic won a chip and proved he is good to be 1st option on champioship winning team. He is one of 5 active players in that group with LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Kawhi and some would put KD. Embiid is not. One of Luka/Ant/Tatum will be part of this group this season. Embiid will not. Until then he is not as good as anyone. So this was what is hurting I see. Embiid fan arguing for Luka or whoever. And it is not against Jokic...

82 percent of people here answered question from you and UglyBugBall. The answer is you are wrong. So...go on vacation

1. I have not created any of these threads, just post in them.

2. Jokic played good in those series, not all time great though. Maybe you put more into those bubble wins than me. I feel like playing in front of a crowd is different/how basketball is played.

3. Denver didn't skip anyone, never said they did. That can be true while the fact that none of the teams they played were even as good as this year's Minnesota is also true, therefore I don't think it proved a whole lot.

4. I'm not an embiid fan, just pointing out the hypocrisy among posters who don't want to see Jokic catch heat.

5. I never asked a question, and could care less what 82% of people here are saying. Most of that 82% just looks at advanced rating systems, which don't encompass intangibles it takes to lead a team over a quality opponent in the playoffs.

[UglyBugBall]

You said winning which Luka didn’t. Heck Jokic had an even worse team the year before last and still won 48 games. I guess Luka is not a winner like Jokic according to your own logic. You’re easy work son.

Jokics 6 seed team was way better than what Luka took to the WCF a few years ago. That ends debate on itself. We're going to look back on that mvp as the worst one ever awarded, to a 6th seed that should have been top 3 even without Murray. That's how deep that team is. It's looking added the same way Boston is. Jokics lucked out and won in a weak season last year, not beating any 50 win team. Luka sacrificed last season for the draft so that he could win an all time difficult ring this season

The starting lineup was literally Jokic-AG-Monte Morris-Will Barton+Jeff Green with Austin Rivers+Bones Hyland+Facundo Campazzo+JaMychal Green coming off the bench. That's an absolutely horrendous supporting cast compared to Luka's decent but not great supporting cast

AG is an elite starter, better than anyone Luka had til kyrie. Rivers, Green and Bones are three of the best bench players in the league that are starter material. (Green not so much today)

[UglyBugBall]

Jokics 6 seed team was way better than what Luka took to the WCF a few years ago. That ends debate on itself. We're going to look back on that mvp as the worst one ever awarded, to a 6th seed that should have been top 3 even without Murray. That's how deep that team is. It's looking added the same way Boston is. Jokics lucked out and won in a weak season last year, not beating any 50 win team. Luka sacrificed last season for the draft so that he could win an all time difficult ring this season

The starting lineup was literally Jokic-AG-Monte Morris-Will Barton+Jeff Green with Austin Rivers+Bones Hyland+Facundo Campazzo+JaMychal Green coming off the bench. That's an absolutely horrendous supporting cast compared to Luka's decent but not great supporting cast

What’s funny the Mavs won playoff games without Luka that post season. Had Brunson carry them. He is obviously either trolling or exposing his limited knowledge of basketball.

Brunson had the game of his life, but he was bench material at the time starting with Luka.