China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion...

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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1161 » by spikeslovechild » Wed Oct 9, 2019 9:52 pm

seewhy wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Buzzard wrote:I am not mad about it. In the grand scheme of things it shows how much the NBA and the Players want to paint themselves as being progressive. Around the Horn just gave a great example of the hypocrisy of the league and its players. They pulled the All Star game out of Charlotte due to what they saw as a unfair law; yet play in China every year. You tell me where their bread is buttered more, transgendered bias Charlotte NC or slave labor camps mainland China.


That's a very fair point.

The only counter I can offer to that is that the players/coaches who speak out do so on homegrown social issues that they directly see. For instance, we don't really hear NBA players going off about The West Bank, but they will speak out about police brutality in the US because they come from communities where this is real and it's personal to them.

Me personally, I knew very little about the HK protests outside of knowing that it was in reaction to extradition laws that were proposed. I can't imagine that I'm not the only American who is ignorant about the overall scope of the matter.


Well companies have corporate responsibilities, but those responsibilities can change depending on the country they are operating in. But in general, they have to comply with local laws and their customer's ethical standard.

So in Charlotte, NBA needs to see what is generally acceptable in the US and act accordingly. When they conduct business in China, it makes more sense for them to follow the law there and what's acceptable by the Chinese customers.

The problem is too many American don't agree with Chinese law and Chinese's views and perspective. But still it doesn't give American the right to determine what China should or should not do in their country or blame NBA for operating under Chinese rules in business deals with China.


They don't. How the f is the NBA going to determine how China operates? What China wants is for them to be afraid or refuse to speak out against the injustice that is happening in Hong Kong basically to not express an opinion.

It's cancel culture on steroids. I hope if this does anything it shows that free speech is f'n important and to respect other peoples right to have a different viewpoint then your own because there are countries where that isn't possible.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1162 » by manou » Wed Oct 9, 2019 9:54 pm

Paradise wrote:
peja_the_legend wrote:Has Daryl Morey ever tweeted about the situation in Palestine,the concerned activist he is?

Hasn’t even talked about domesticated social issues in his own state of Texas.

He should be fired independently of this but unfortunately, firing him makes the league and Rockets ownership look like they are bowing down to China. Ultimately, he deserves to fired still.
Because...?
I just don't get this, he just said "fight for freedom". If an American cannot say that on Twitter without losing his job, what does it say about your nation?
I'm French. If there is one thing I respect so much about America, it's the free speech Americans care so much about. I just can't believe business could destroy that incredibly important part of the American nation.

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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1163 » by seewhy » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:14 pm

spikeslovechild wrote:
seewhy wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
That's a very fair point.

The only counter I can offer to that is that the players/coaches who speak out do so on homegrown social issues that they directly see. For instance, we don't really hear NBA players going off about The West Bank, but they will speak out about police brutality in the US because they come from communities where this is real and it's personal to them.

Me personally, I knew very little about the HK protests outside of knowing that it was in reaction to extradition laws that were proposed. I can't imagine that I'm not the only American who is ignorant about the overall scope of the matter.


Well companies have corporate responsibilities, but those responsibilities can change depending on the country they are operating in. But in general, they have to comply with local laws and their customer's ethical standard.

So in Charlotte, NBA needs to see what is generally acceptable in the US and act accordingly. When they conduct business in China, it makes more sense for them to follow the law there and what's acceptable by the Chinese customers.

The problem is too many American don't agree with Chinese law and Chinese's views and perspective. But still it doesn't give American the right to determine what China should or should not do in their country or blame NBA for operating under Chinese rules in business deals with China.


They don't. How the f is the NBA going to determine how China operates? What China wants is for them to be afraid or refuse to speak out against the injustice that is happening in Hong Kong basically to not express an opinion.

It's cancel culture on steroids. I hope if this does anything it shows that free speech is f'n important and to respect other peoples right to have a different viewpoint then your own because there are countries where that isn't possible.


I don't know if you ever worked in a managerial position or took a business class, but having a free speech in private and saying something at work and representing your company is two completely different thing. Now if Morey said something in private and China get mad about it, I'd say that's nuts to. But Morey said something on his official Twitter, something that's part of his job and Rocket's formal communication channel, he has to be sensitive to his company's customers and the law where the company has business relationship. You may want to see how free speech is applied in business before you mix it up with personal free speech.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1164 » by Darknemo2000 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:15 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:...you mean hypocrites, right?

And it's far easier for Americans to sound off about homegrown social issues than foreign ones. But yeah, carry on I guess.


Isnt freedom of speech and expression a homegrown issue as well?
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1165 » by xdrta+ » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:17 pm

Blazers-1977 wrote:Again stop talking about Trump , the Dems or GOP on here . This is not the forum for that .


There are so many political forums in the internet like

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php

That’s a place where you can talk about politics . This forum is for us to talk about sports and news that affect our sports leagues


But it's OK to have dozens of messages about Uyghurs, organ harvesting, Palestine, and a raft of other issues that have nothing to do with the NBA. But we can't have Trumpies get their feelings hurt. OK.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1166 » by Darknemo2000 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:18 pm

seewhy wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:
seewhy wrote:
Well companies have corporate responsibilities, but those responsibilities can change depending on the country they are operating in. But in general, they have to comply with local laws and their customer's ethical standard.

So in Charlotte, NBA needs to see what is generally acceptable in the US and act accordingly. When they conduct business in China, it makes more sense for them to follow the law there and what's acceptable by the Chinese customers.

The problem is too many American don't agree with Chinese law and Chinese's views and perspective. But still it doesn't give American the right to determine what China should or should not do in their country or blame NBA for operating under Chinese rules in business deals with China.


They don't. How the f is the NBA going to determine how China operates? What China wants is for them to be afraid or refuse to speak out against the injustice that is happening in Hong Kong basically to not express an opinion.

It's cancel culture on steroids. I hope if this does anything it shows that free speech is f'n important and to respect other peoples right to have a different viewpoint then your own because there are countries where that isn't possible.


I don't know if you ever worked in a managerial position or took a business class, but having a free speech in private and saying something at work and representing your company is two completely different thing. Now if Morey said something in private and China get mad about it, I'd say that's nuts to. But Morey said something on his official Twitter, something that's part of his job and Rocket's formal communication channel, he has to be sensitive to his company's customers and the law where the company has business relationship. You may want to see how free speech is applied in business before you mix it up with personal free speech.


He then proceeded to tweet that it does not represent Rockets organization or NBA position. Or maybe tweets are just one time thing? as In you tweet once and then whatever you tweet after can be for ever disregarded and ignored?
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1167 » by seccom » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:25 pm

Read on Twitter
/photo/1

This is how CCP trolls think about US.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1168 » by OkcSinceSGA » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:26 pm

Read on Twitter


Cowards lol

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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1169 » by First Step » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:27 pm

manou wrote:
Paradise wrote:
peja_the_legend wrote:Has Daryl Morey ever tweeted about the situation in Palestine,the concerned activist he is?

Hasn’t even talked about domesticated social issues in his own state of Texas.

He should be fired independently of this but unfortunately, firing him makes the league and Rockets ownership look like they are bowing down to China. Ultimately, he deserves to fired still.
Because...?
I just don't get this, he just said "fight for freedom". If an American cannot say that on Twitter without losing his job, what does it say about your nation?
I'm French. If there is one thing I respect so much about America, it's the free speech Americans care so much about. I just can't believe business could destroy that incredibly important part of the American nation.

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Even if Morey is fired for his comments, that is not a violation of his first amendment rights.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1170 » by TheHartBreakKid » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:30 pm

There are so many layers to this problem, and I think focusing on just one area is naive, however I will say this:


To the people whose whole argument has been "the NBA/it's players are hypocrites", with variations of this argument including why certain "outspoken" figures haven't commented on this:


First and foremost, I agree with you that there is some hypocricy going on. I think we can agree to that. But here is the thing: Each act of "social justice" or bringing awareness has it's own consequences and context. We can't simplify everything into "well they are hypocrites for not speaking up for X issue so eff them".


The NBA is far from this perfect, selfless entity that is putting morals ahead of everything else. They also never claimed to be this perfect entity. They are a corporation, and their primary goal is making money. We all know this. However, they have taken some progressive actions and their lack of action in this case shouldn't necessarily void the positive acts/stances that they have taken. Same goes with Kerr/Lebron etc who have not spoken up regarding this; This guys are millionares who are employed by the NBA. No one is claiming that they are selfless pure humanitarians. They have spoken up about some issues, and their lack of response in this case doesn't make any of their previous stances/actions any less valuable.



We all make choices based on a variety of factors; Human's aren't black or white, ethically/morally speaking. The potential consequences of our actions also factor in whether we make a particular action.


The NBA and the "outspoken figures" are lucky enough to operate in the United States, which is far from perfect, but is considerably more "free" and tolerant about expressing one's opinion. As a result, Lebron taking a stance against police brutality won't cost the NBA billions of dollars , and won't be met with a harsh reaction from the league. Lebron taking a stance against the Chinese government would cost the NBA billions of dollars, and could easily be met with a harsh reaction from the league. I think its absolutely silly to say that "Well Lebron doesn't care if he cared he would still do the 'right' thing". That's extremely naive imo.

Lebron could care, and still not speak up because he believes that the consequences are not worth it. That doesn't make him hypocrite or a coward. It makes him human. Just in the same way that I could care about the opressive regime and economic depression going on in (insert my home country here), and I could feel empathy for the people that I know living there, but I'm not quitting my job and moving there to join the protests. Why? because while I do care, I'm simply making the choice to not take that action because I also care about many other things; I care about my career, I care about my freedom, and I care about my family and friends.


I'm not going to generalize everyone, but it seems to me that atleast a good percentage of the people playing the hypocrite angle have their own agenda. I'm simply saying that you can be a "good" person and actually care about certain issues, but choose to not speak up or take action for certain other issues, due to believing that the consequences are not worth it. And I believe that there is nothing inherently wrong with that, and that it's human nature. I also believe that this doesn't nullify the impact of their previous actions, or define their motives.


TLDR is this:

The consequences of taking a harsher stance in this situation would be very severe for the NBA and any figure associated with the NBA, compared to the consequences of previous actions regarding domestic issues. We can't simply ignore that fact just because it helps support another agenda.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1171 » by kulaz3000 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:31 pm

I’m sorry, but cherry picking idiotic tweets by idiots does absolutely no good.

You think we can find moronic tweets from Americans or from any other country for that matter.

Let’s not attempt to make a sweeping judgement on an entire country by a handful of tweets made by individuals.


seccom wrote:
Read on Twitter
/photo/1

This is how CCP trolls think about US.
Why so serious?
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1172 » by Buzzard » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:33 pm

First Step wrote:
manou wrote:
Paradise wrote:Hasn’t even talked about domesticated social issues in his own state of Texas.

He should be fired independently of this but unfortunately, firing him makes the league and Rockets ownership look like they are bowing down to China. Ultimately, he deserves to fired still.
Because...?
I just don't get this, he just said "fight for freedom". If an American cannot say that on Twitter without losing his job, what does it say about your nation?
I'm French. If there is one thing I respect so much about America, it's the free speech Americans care so much about. I just can't believe business could destroy that incredibly important part of the American nation.

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Even if Morey is fired for his comments, that is not a violation of his first amendment rights.

If Morey is fired he will be hired by someone immediately and make several million a year in speaker engagements. In a nut shell, he will a toast of the free speech/market world. If he wrote a book, it would be a best seller before publication.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1173 » by seccom » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:46 pm

kulaz3000 wrote:I’m sorry, but cherry picking idiotic tweets by idiots does absolutely no good.

You think we can find moronic tweets from Americans or from any other country for that matter.

Let’s not attempt to make a sweeping judgement on an entire country by a handful of tweets made by individuals.


seccom wrote:
Read on Twitter
/photo/1

This is how CCP trolls think about US.


Not disagreeing with you. The screen shot is NOT from US tweets, they were from Weibo, the Chinese twitter. If the government don't like it, the censor will took them down. I am guessing those were NOT real tweets from normal citizens, probably from the 50 cents Army.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1174 » by mtron929 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:50 pm

TheHartBreakKid wrote:There are so many layers to this problem, and I think focusing on just one area is naive, however I will say this:


To the people whose whole argument has been "the NBA/it's players are hypocrites", with variations of this argument including why certain "outspoken" figures haven't commented on this:


First and foremost, I agree with you that there is some hypocricy going on. I think we can agree to that. But here is the thing: Each act of "social justice" or bringing awareness has it's own consequences and context. We can't simplify everything into "well they are hypocrites for not speaking up for X issue so eff them".


The NBA is far from this perfect, selfless entity that is putting morals ahead of everything else. They also never claimed to be this perfect entity. They are a corporation, and their primary goal is making money. We all know this. However, they have taken some progressive actions and their lack of action in this case shouldn't necessarily void the positive acts/stances that they have taken. Same goes with Kerr/Lebron etc who have not spoken up regarding this; This guys are millionares who are employed by the NBA. No one is claiming that they are selfless pure humanitarians. They have spoken up about some issues, and their lack of response in this case doesn't make any of their previous stances/actions any less valuable.



We all make choices based on a variety of factors; Human's aren't black or white, ethically/morally speaking. The potential consequences of our actions also factor in whether we make a particular action.


The NBA and the "outspoken figures" are lucky enough to operate in the United States, which is far from perfect, but is considerably more "free" and tolerant about expressing one's opinion. As a result, Lebron taking a stance against police brutality won't cost the NBA billions of dollars , and won't be met with a harsh reaction from the league. Lebron taking a stance against the Chinese government would cost the NBA billions of dollars, and could easily be met with a harsh reaction from the league. I think its absolutely silly to say that "Well Lebron doesn't care if he cared he would still do the 'right' thing". That's extremely naive imo.

Lebron could care, and still not speak up because he believes that the consequences are not worth it. That doesn't make him hypocrite or a coward. It makes him human. Just in the same way that I could care about the opressive regime and economic depression going on in (insert my home country here), and I could feel empathy for the people that I know living there, but I'm not quitting my job and moving there to join the protests. Why? because while I do care, I'm simply making the choice to not take that action because I also care about many other things; I care about my career, I care about my freedom, and I care about my family and friends.


I'm not going to generalize everyone, but it seems to me that atleast a good percentage of the people playing the hypocrite angle have their own agenda. I'm simply saying that you can be a "good" person and actually care about certain issues, but choose to not speak up or take action for certain other issues, due to believing that the consequences are not worth it. And I believe that there is nothing inherently wrong with that, and that it's human nature. I also believe that this doesn't nullify the impact of their previous actions, or define their motives.


TLDR is this:

The consequences of taking a harsher stance in this situation would be very severe for the NBA and any figure associated with the NBA, compared to the consequences of previous actions regarding domestic issues. We can't simply ignore that fact just because it helps support another agenda.


In general, a great post. But I would like to add something else as well.

A lot of activists do think of the world in black and white and they feel as though they are fighting for the right causes. Moreover, they feel as though their intentions are pure and that they are not acting in self-interest. Basically, the people who think morality is complicated and think in greyish tones do not become activists. The ones who think in terms of black and white become activists.

Having said that, this is a rude awakening moment for a lot of NBA activists. Basically, this situation (playing like an evil hypothetical game regarding how much self-interest would you sacrifice to not speak out against evil) is revealing in the sense that there is a level of self-interest where the instinct is to shut up about their activism and care more about their self-interest. It is easy to claim that you won't be bought off if the situation never presents itself. But it sure is difficult if you are actually in the moment.

So I think some of these activists (I am not singling out who since I don't know who thinks this way) can learn something from an event like this. That is, they are not as pure as they thought they were with their activism. There is a point in which shut up and dribble seems like a more pleasing option. Unlike others, I will not criticize the supposed hypocrisy because I feel like I would act similarly as well, since we can't help but care about our financial well being above everything else.

But I do agree that depending on how this ends, the future activism shown by the NBA players on an issue where their self-interest is not on the line (e.g. police shooting) will I dunno, feel somewhat shallow? Basically, the NBA has lost a lot in terms of their social activism power and I don't see how they can easily get it back. But tis life.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1175 » by sikma42 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:52 pm

I doubt it. He didnt stand for anything. He just looks like an idiot.
Buzzard wrote:
First Step wrote:
manou wrote:Because...?
I just don't get this, he just said "fight for freedom". If an American cannot say that on Twitter without losing his job, what does it say about your nation?
I'm French. If there is one thing I respect so much about America, it's the free speech Americans care so much about. I just can't believe business could destroy that incredibly important part of the American nation.

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Even if Morey is fired for his comments, that is not a violation of his first amendment rights.

If Morey is fired he will be hired by someone immediately and make several million a year in speaker engagements. In a nut shell, he will a toast of the free speech/market world. If he wrote a book, it would be a best seller before publication.


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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1176 » by TheHartBreakKid » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:52 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Cowards lol

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I'm curious, and I'm sincerely asking this with an open mind. What is Curry supposed to do do in that position?

Steph Curry making a harsh statement right now would be the atomic bomb on the relationship of China and the NBA. I'm talking to the levels of the entire relationship ending, with the NBA being banned as a whole in china including games being broadcasted. Obviously that's a huge overreaction and is a reflection of many things that are wrong with the CPC, but I don't think it's that farfetched or unexpected for a response. To me, Curry absolutely did the right thing.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1177 » by scrabbarista » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:56 pm

tyguy wrote: Quite a few nba personalities were just exposed as total frauds.


Indeed. I'm done with two of my favorite podcasts, forever (they are two of the most popular ones). Some of the takes on Morey's tweet were downright disgusting. As though he, and not the CCP, had committed an atrocity. The podcasters who painted the situation in this light will never be on my playlist again.

On the other hand, Nate Duncan's take probably made him my favorite NBA podcaster for the rest of time. He'll probably even end up with some of my money at some point. He had the most clear, reasonable, and principled response I've heard from an NBA person so far.

Most commentators were somewhere in between. I have no problem with people staying silent about the situation, but if you're going to take a side, maybe don't take the side of, literally, murderers.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1178 » by Blazers-1977 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:56 pm

seccom wrote:
Read on Twitter
/photo/1

This is how CCP trolls think about US.


Yah they obviously have the freedom of speech to show how stupid they are in public.
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1179 » by Blazers-1977 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:58 pm

scrabbarista wrote:
tyguy wrote: Quite a few nba personalities were just exposed as total frauds.


Indeed. I'm done with two of my favorite podcasts, forever (they are two of the most popular ones). Some of the takes on Morey's tweet were downright disgusting. As though he, and not the CCP, had committed an atrocity. The podcasters who painted the situation in this light will never be on my playlist again.

On the other hand, Nate Duncan's take probably made him my favorite NBA podcaster for the rest of time. He'll probably even end up with some of my money at some point. He had the most clear, reasonable, and principled response I've heard from an NBA person so far.

Most commentators were somewhere in between. I have no problem with people staying silent about the situation, but if you're going to take a side, maybe don't take the side of, literally, murderers.



I was disappointed with Stephen A Smith for his comments on this
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Re: China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion... 

Post#1180 » by lakerz12 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:00 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Cowards lol

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Lol. Pathetic.

He's claiming ignorance. As if he has a good understanding of all of the intricate details and history of gun violence and gun control.

No the difference here is that he isn't in a safe protective bubble where he can speak out on an issue without fear of negative consequences.

And his owner/gm/coach told them not to say anything.

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