NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[kenwood3333]

Wiggins thought he could sit out on games and still get his pay checks.

[Optms]

Call me, when you boycot EVERY SINGLE medical drug and vaccine

Every single big pharmaceutical drug isn't being forced on you. Call me when it is.

[dhsilv2]

Also, anyone telling you not to worry about long term side effects is being dishonest. You really just don't know. Something easily could come up 5 years from now.

Just no...that's simply beyond not true.

[Logicjbr]

Yeah, except the manufacturers of those seatbelts, helmets, cars, etc. are completely liable if their products cause unintentional harm to the consumer.

Remind me again why Pfizer, moderna, and others have total immunity from lawsuits if something goes unintentionally wrong with their vaccines?

so because you cant sue you say "f*ck society"? lol. I understand your point but it really doesnt hold much weight in the grand scheme of whats going on.

[ag3]

Yeah, except the manufacturers of those seatbelts, helmets, cars, etc. are completely liable if their products cause unintentional harm to the consumer.

Remind me again why Pfizer, moderna, and others have total immunity from lawsuits if something goes unintentionally wrong with their vaccines?

Pfizer got full FDA approval. So they now have some liability.

[leolozon]

Also, anyone telling you not to worry about long term side effects is being dishonest. You really just don't know. Something easily could come up 5 years from now.

We'll we know for a fact people are already living with debilitating long term side effects from covid, even young people that survive.

That's understood. But covid hits some of us like a minor cold and nothing more.

And it's still not an argument against taking the vaccine considering immunologists who say to take the vaccine agree with what you just said.

I find it fascinating when people against a position use an argument already known and accepted by the opposite side as if it wasn't already taken into consideration by them.

[celtics792244]

Best thing ive learned here so far is that we’re likely going to get lifetime immunity after the third dose, just as hepatitis and its not going to be a perpetual 2x a year booster shot program.

If 3x dose will get me a lifetime immunity, im going to be more open to get vaccinated.

Remember this post. I'll believe that when I see it.

Mmmmmm.... I recall seeing a Bloomberg article that Israel looking at possible 4th dose, early In September.

[ag3]

This thread will get locked , but this is exactly true and 1 of the biggest issues with people not feeling comfortable with the vaccine. It doesnt get reported on and most people have no clue.

It would be unfair towards those companies. They would be set to lose 20 billion. It is our duty to protect them and their interests.

Watch on YouTube

it's mind-boggling to me how much faith some of these people have in these companies that are in it for profit. Johnson & Johnson can't even refine their main product enough to not cause Ovarian cancer. But I'm sure they're better at making vaccines.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/business/johnson-johnson-talcum-powder.html

People talk about the vaccine not causing adverse reactions in 99% of people who take it. Unless you have a time machine and can show us a case study on how vaccinated people differ from the unvaccinated 5 years from today, you know no more about how safe or unsafe these vaccines are in the long term than me, Fauci, Trump, Biden, Rogan, or anybody else... You have the right to fear the unknown as a human being, but it looks like we're slowly losing it.

Pharmaceutical companies have literally added 20-30 years to human life expectancy over the last 150 years.

[Optms]

I urge anyone who has an open mind and wants to learn about viruses and how vaccinations operate to watch this video. This is the most simplifed yet unbiased description of how vaccines can save lives. Yes this is about another Virus. Yes the smallpox vaccines took centuries to perfect, and the COVID virus was developed in less than a year. I understand that, and I understand the valid uncertainties that come with those facts. I know we are living in uncertain times and I respect people being skeptical and I respect people not automatically feeling like they need to be vaccinated. But please watch this video. The concept of vaccinations is not rocket science. I have my doubts too, regarding the COVID vaccines, but to doubt vaccinations as a whole is just ridiculous. I would rather deal with possible side effects years from now, vs putting my family in real, tangible, clear risk now. This thread will get locked or merged, but I wholeheartedly agree with KAJ and I agree with the NBA's handling of this.

I don't believe I'm being a sheep. I don't believe the media is controlling me. I just know that there is enough scientific evidence that vaccinations, as a whole, have saved millions of lives, and I rather have a rushed flawed vaccine vs no vaccine. The CEO of the company I work for told me something interesting today. He's Bulgarian, and he said this is a common saying in Bulgaria; " In a village where everyone is blind, the man with one eye is the king". Give me potentially flawed vaccine vs no vaccine.

[url]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Biographics[/url]

I appreciate this sensible response rather the usual "hur durr lets segregate" response or 'deport them' I have heard on here. You aren't spreading fear like the media is nor putting down others. Definitely not a sheep. Society needs more people like you. Unfortunately, as COVID spreads, so does herd thinking.

[bstein14]

No one is making Kyrie or Wiggins take the vaccine. Both of those players could easily have been traded if requested, so they weren't in cities that have mandates. If it was really important to them, they could easily just move onto another city and still get paid.

I'm vaccinated and I do think its fine if employers want to mandate vaccinations... but I don't think its the government's place to mandate vaccinations. People can always find a different employer.

[leolozon]

Call me, when you boycot EVERY SINGLE medical drug and vaccine

Every single big pharmaceutical drug isn't being forced on you. Call me when it is.

Every single drug isn't there to help with a pandemic and most deceases aren't infectious. He's point was about health concerns, not the idea of freedom which is a separate point.

Are you against everything that is forced on you? Forced is also a big word. You can still do without, there's just consequences.

[ag3]

I don't even understand the logic of mandating any vaccine that doesn't prevent infection or transmission.

Almost every vaccine can cause asymptomatic and mild infection. This is not new. The Rubella vaccine is only 70% effective. But we are mandated to take it as children as part of the MMR series. The main point of a vaccine is to stop a severe version of a disease. Once enough are infected, you will get to natural herd immunity with the help of vaccines protecting you from a severe version.

P.S. 8 month data on Pfizer still shows over 90% efficacy for hospitalization and over 95% for under age 50.

[Saints14]

Yeah, except the manufacturers of those seatbelts, helmets, cars, etc. are completely liable if their products cause unintentional harm to the consumer.

Remind me again why Pfizer, moderna, and others have total immunity from lawsuits if something goes unintentionally wrong with their vaccines?

It's not quite the same thing, but if we're applying the "skin in the game" principle one of the biggest proponents of the vaccine is that the leaders and elites got theirs FIRST

[jg77]

Also, anyone telling you not to worry about long term side effects is being dishonest. You really just don't know. Something easily could come up 5 years from now.

Just no...that's simply beyond not true.

So you can guarantee 100% to all the unvaxxed that they won't face any issues down the road from the vax?

[LofJ]

Yeah, except the manufacturers of those seatbelts, helmets, cars, etc. are completely liable if their products cause unintentional harm to the consumer.

Remind me again why Pfizer, moderna, and others have total immunity from lawsuits if something goes unintentionally wrong with their vaccines?

It's not quite the same thing, but if we're applying the "skin in the game" principle one of the biggest proponents of the vaccine is that the leaders and elites got theirs FIRST

Yep, they got their vaccine in early January, several months before the general public could get it. I think that was even before the over 65 population could get it, which started in February I believe.

[michaelm]

It’s everyone’s business because it’s contagious, but sure.

Both vaccinated or unvaccinated are contagious. This is why there’s a surge in cases in Singapore or other highly vax countries.

Im no expert but the reason why we take the vax is to lessen our risk for severe illness and deaths.

So taking the vax is really about your personal risk and your mental health. And we need to respect that choice for everyone.

2 things:

1) for a non expert, you say the same things a lot, and when they are refuted, you ignore them and just repeat the same things over and over. We asked for specific concerns, you gave us none, and have gone back to the well. Are you trying to learn or are you trying to use the cover of "Im not an expert" to saying the same things over and over and when confronted, ignoring it?

2) since this is the 100th time, this one is free: being vaccinated reduces the spread. That means its better. That means this ends quicker. Just because it doesn't eliminate the chances doesnt mean its not worth doing. Steph Curry shoots about 45% from 3 right? Eh.. why take the shot at all? He misses it sometimes. Therefore a Steph Curry 3pter just isn't effective.

Ridiculous right?

BTW, Singapore spiked due to eased restrictions and their general way of life - public transit playing a huge part in it. It shows why vigilance is still needed after the vaccine. But, because they are highly vaccinated, their death counts are in single digits, even though they had minimal cases in the early stages of the pandemic (April 2020 being their peak at about what, 1400 cases?)

Singapore isn't an example of why the vaccine isnt effective, however it does show the waning effects due to time, and the waning effects on variants. It also cautions against fighting the endemic, as well as cautions against more lax travel laws.

I think Israel did something similar, they thought that it was all over and completely opened.

As has been said and you are no doubt aware the longevity issue with the mRNA vaccines is not necessarily settled yet, what they probably didn't have time to do given the perceived urgency of the pandemic was sorting out ideal dose intervals/number of doses for long term immunity, hepatitis B vaccination requires 3 and occasionally 4 doses, and I can tell you from personal experience that in someone who did not become immune from 2 doses, 3 doses can give strong long term measured immunity. Tetanus vaccination which is against the toxin rather than the causative bacterium and continues to be considered essential requires multiple initial doses as well as boosters, and my own pure speculation is that Covid vaccines could be similar if they are mainly against the spike protein. Sure a booster every 6 months would not be workable, but that is not established yet. It is amusing in a way that technologies designed to allow quicker and safer production of vaccines are being criticised for doing so; these are not live attenuated virus vaccines, and the Chinese vaccine which utilises traditionally safe killed virus technology seems to have not been as effective particularly against the delta variant. The covid vaccine was given emergency use authorisation because it looked like an emergency. I believe an Ebola virus vaccine using modern technology (? viral vector) developed in 6 months or so was given compassionate use approval and was successful in curtailing outbreaks in Africa in recent years; that disease had 50% mortality without Western ICU treatment of course. Now I come to think of it I am not sure what their plan was for foisting Ebola vaccines on unsuspecting freedom loving Americans for profit.

I don't know where those who don't need the vaccine think they will end up if their magical immune systems do happen to fail and they contract the delta variant without immunity; they will end up in hospitals full of ill patients such as immunosuppressed cancer patients and the elderly, and may lead to immunised staff at least testing positive even if not ill, as well as still presenting some risk of transmission to patients as is argued by those against vaccination, particularly to high risk patients, and even if not sick themselves will certainly not be able to work after they test positive and will also prompt isolation of work colleagues which has caused staffing problems in Australian health facilities especially when we had low vaccination rates here even with the relatively small numbers by world standards.

[Roco14]

Yeah, except the manufacturers of those seatbelts, helmets, cars, etc. are completely liable if their products cause unintentional harm to the consumer.

Remind me again why Pfizer, moderna, and others have total immunity from lawsuits if something goes unintentionally wrong with their vaccines?

so because you cant sue you say "f*ck society"? lol. I understand your point but it really doesnt hold much weight in the grand scheme of whats going on.

It's not so much about actually going through with suing anybody, but in a world where every company can be held liable for damages, being the *only* ones on the block that are untouchable suggests a lack of confidence either from the manufacturers, regulators - or both.

[jg77]

We'll we know for a fact people are already living with debilitating long term side effects from covid, even young people that survive.

That's understood. But covid hits some of us like a minor cold and nothing more.

And it's still not an argument against taking the vaccine considering immunologists who say to take the vaccine agree with what you just said.

I find it fascinating when people against a position use an argument already known and accepted by the opposite side as if it wasn't already taken into consideration by them.

Sorry but you make no sense to me.

[dhsilv2]

Also, anyone telling you not to worry about long term side effects is being dishonest. You really just don't know. Something easily could come up 5 years from now.

Just no...that's simply beyond not true.

So you can guarantee 100% to all the unvaxxed that they won't face any issues down the road from the vax?

There's nothing here that is new about these vaccines that there isn't 20+ years of research on.

[infinite11285]

I don't even understand the logic of mandating any vaccine that doesn't prevent infection or transmission.

This was never about public health - none of it makes sense. If it was, Canada's government would allow those with antibodies the same freedoms that the vaccinated have, considering that antibodies offer significantly more protection than the vaccine (this has been proven and confirmed). But that's not the case. Anybody with half a brain should be asking questions right now.

Have either of you consulted with your respective doctors? They would be the best source to alleviate any confusion you may have.