76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Nuntius]

The 76ers are going to wait for other star players to ask out. Until that happens there won't be a deal unless someone wants to grossly over pay. And philly can, should, and everyone who's a fan of the team all agree they can wait a year or two.

The Sixers cannot wait two years before trading Simmons. And the reason why is in one of your previous posts:

He's not going to throw away Embiid's prime!

Joel Embiid is 27 years old, going into 28 in less than 100 days. He is a bulky big who has struggled with foot issues in the past. His prime is right now and in the next couple of years. He won't be in his prime anymore when he's 31. Therefore, the Sixers need to get him help now. Refusing to trade Simmons until something happens and another star asks out is not something that they have the time to do. They cannot wait for that miracle.

[Nuntius]

So it was speculation about all these deals from unnamed NBA executives then?

We will never know whether that was speculation, a smokescreen or deals that were actually proposed but fell through. At the end of the day, the only deals that are ever confirmed are those that actually happen. All the others always remain a "what if".

Someone did a beautiful job of breaking down why the 76ers would ask "so much" from the Blazers for a deal of Ben Simmons for CJ. It's out there. After reading it things just made sense, from a 76ers perspective, if that was the actual deal being discussed.

Fans are great at finding ways to explain away their FOs greed/stupidity.

[michaelm]

The 76ers are going to wait for other star players to ask out. Until that happens there won't be a deal unless someone wants to grossly over pay. And philly can, should, and everyone who's a fan of the team all agree they can wait a year or two.

The Sixers cannot wait two years before trading Simmons. And the reason why is in one of your previous posts:

He's not going to throw away Embiid's prime!

Joel Embiid is 27 years old, going into 28 in less than 100 days. He is a bulky big who has struggled with foot issues in the past. His prime is right now and in the next couple of years. He won't be in his prime anymore when he's 31. Therefore, the Sixers need to get him help now. Refusing to trade Simmons until something happens and another star asks out is not something that they have the time to do. They cannot wait for that miracle.

Exactly this. They should have kept jimmy Butler and traded Simmons, and subsequently could/should have traded him for Harden; I am not sure who there is better than Harden who could be got, unless they have LeBron lined up for a final tilt at a title.
I am over Simmons despite being Australian, and can't see him prospering without considerable luck and a complete change of attitude. Whatever his thing is with shooting, maybe he never could have improved his shot no matter what after his father made him shoot with his non dominant hand as a kid, that he I am told insisted on keeping his brother as his shooting coach and refused shot doctors in the off seasons can't be defended. I saw a Sixers fan post that he could see Simmons going somewhere else and changing his attitude to shooting, which would be immensely frustrating, but not trading him won't get Embiid any help as you say. I can't see that he and Embiid were ever well suited, although their regular season stats together were more than good.

[dhsilv2]

The 76ers are going to wait for other star players to ask out. Until that happens there won't be a deal unless someone wants to grossly over pay. And philly can, should, and everyone who's a fan of the team all agree they can wait a year or two.

The Sixers cannot wait two years before trading Simmons. And the reason why is in one of your previous posts:

He's not going to throw away Embiid's prime!

Joel Embiid is 27 years old, going into 28 in less than 100 days. He is a bulky big who has struggled with foot issues in the past. His prime is right now and in the next couple of years. He won't be in his prime anymore when he's 31. Therefore, the Sixers need to get him help now. Refusing to trade Simmons until something happens and another star asks out is not something that they have the time to do. They cannot wait for that miracle.

But there hasn't been a serious offer. What in the hell are they supposed to do? They can't trade Simmons for crap and that's been the offers so far. This team is title or bust. Making the finals doesn't matter to this organization. They'd be better off completely blowing it all up and trading Embiid than taking the deals being offered so far. They absolutely have to wait this out and if it takes 2 years it takes 2 years.

[dhsilv2]

The 76ers are going to wait for other star players to ask out. Until that happens there won't be a deal unless someone wants to grossly over pay. And philly can, should, and everyone who's a fan of the team all agree they can wait a year or two.

The Sixers cannot wait two years before trading Simmons. And the reason why is in one of your previous posts:

He's not going to throw away Embiid's prime!

Joel Embiid is 27 years old, going into 28 in less than 100 days. He is a bulky big who has struggled with foot issues in the past. His prime is right now and in the next couple of years. He won't be in his prime anymore when he's 31. Therefore, the Sixers need to get him help now. Refusing to trade Simmons until something happens and another star asks out is not something that they have the time to do. They cannot wait for that miracle.

Exactly this. They should have kept jimmy Butler and traded Simmons, and subsequently could/should have traded him for Harden; I am not sure who there is better than Harden who could be got, unless they have LeBron lined up for a final tilt at a title.
I am over Simmons despite being Australian, and can't see him prospering without considerable luck and a complete change of attitude. Whatever his thing is with shooting, maybe he never could have improved his shot no matter what after his father made him shoot with his non dominant hand as a kid, that he I am told insisted on keeping his brother as his shooting coach and refused shot doctors in the off seasons can't be defended. I saw a Sixers fan post that he could see Simmons going somewhere else and changing his attitude to shooting, which would be immensely frustrating, but not trading him won't get Embiid any help as you say. I can't see that he and Embiid were ever well suited, although their regular season stats together were more than good.

Harden for Simmons was NEVER on the table. It actually very well might be on the table this off season which is yet another reason why the 76ers can't rush this.

Butler was leaving, again nothing philly could really have done there either but that was when Brand was the GM and I think we all know how horrible a GM he was. But again, that's going back a billion years. I mean they should have gone to war with the league and kept Hinkie too. They shouldn't have traded two lottery picks for Fultz either. How far back are we going to go?

Right here right now, they have an allstar refusing to play under a VERY long term deal and the team is over the cap be more than his contract. They have to turn that contract into another allstar or they're never winning as the team sits today. So they can wait for a deal or they can blow things up. Instead people want them to just throw away the next 4-5 years with a team that can't win but is too good to blow up. That's just stupid. Philly should trade Embiid before they take these trash deals for Ben.

[rzzzzz]

Butler was leaving, again nothing philly could really have done there either

Butler said he would go along with whatever his family decided, and said they told him to take the max with Philly. Butler told his caretaker at the house he was renting in Ambler PA that he would be gone the whole summer, but he planned to be back. Jimmy had a great partnership with Embiid and got along great with Philly fans. Then Harris (owner) decided to renew Brett’s contract, and Brett said that Jimmy would have to be under control. Jimmy had questioned the team's lack of preparation when he first got there, and went public about the need to run even the basics, like pick and rolls. (Jimmy might make a great coach someday.) Brett was now saying Jimmy had to be muzzled if he wasn’t gone. So Jimmy said so long, and Miami gave us Richardson and went to the finals. And then Brett was finally gone, too late, after Brand paid Harris (player) the max and signed Horford.

[sfballa13]

I’m not gonna cry crocodile tears for the stinkin’ owners and whatever impulsive move their front office makes, but Ben has singled handedly crippled the trend towards stars completely calling the shots, by behaving so despicably that the Players Association has no stomach to back him up. Definitely no pressure on Daryl not to wait on his best deal, and no groundswell for Ben to collect on a contract he will not fulfill.

You are kidding yourself if you think that the Ben Simmons situation isn't going to be front and center at the next NBPA negotiation.

Agents and players around the league are paying attention and the message sent is this:

Any team can trade you but if you ask for a trade be prepared to be fined and forced to sit out.

I get it, you are Sixers fan who is upset that 33M of your cap space has been tied up for over 1/3 of the regular season.

But let's stop acting like Ben Simmons is hated league round by other players, they all are watching this situation closely and wondering "what if I dont want to play for the team I signed a contract with, is the same thing going to happen to me?"

And just so you know, no NBA star will ever sign with the Sixers as long as Morey is the GM so if anyone lost from this charade it's the Sixers organization and the fans.

He asked for a deal 4+ months ago and his trade value continues to plummet. Morey tried moving him during last year's trade deadline and refused to throw in the required pieces to get the Harden deal done.

As usual Morey expected his trade partner to give up way more than they should so he can "win the trade" and feed his massive ego. He played his cards wrong considering he was dealing with his former boss and considering Harden had been asking out of Houston and he would have been the perfect pairing for Embiid, most likely ending in at least a Final's appearance esp considering the Nets almost went to the FInals without two of their top three players.

As of last season your team did not have the pieces necessary to make the Finals even in an injury depleted shortened season. What makes you think that the same team minus Ben Simmons is going to go further than they did last year?

Sixers fans are quick to forget that the guy averaged 12 pts, 8 rebounds, and 9 assists on 8 FG attempts while shooting 62% in last year's playoffs. You think your team is going to perform better than that without a guy that is almost averaging a triple double while playing top tier level defense?

This isnt about Ben Simmons, it's about Morey's ego, and now it's too late as no one wants to touch Simmons given the narrative surrounding the situation in the last 4+ months.

Harden had way more value than Simmons but because he asked out look at what the Rockets got in return.

Oh, no, stars will stop lining up to sign with Sixers, lmao. Please, think before typing, man.
And you are right about Simmons case being impactful for NBA future. Owners should ask themselves, why would tge league have 4-5 years long contract if any star can just force a trade at any time. Lockout would be pretty much inevitable and it would hurt players much more than owners.

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Oh no the poor owners!!! We should start a GoFundMe!

The Pistons were the worst team in the NBA and Gores still made 50M not including merchandise and concession sales.

Hope he can buy Christmas gifts for his family during this holiday season.

[rzzzzz]

Oh no the poor owners!!! We should start a GoFundMe!
Hope he can buy Christmas gifts for his family during this holiday season.

So you want to start a GoFundMe for poor Ben, who got his feelings hurt for refusing to shoot at the end of game 7 and has blown through $70 million bucks on Ferraris and luxury pads, and needs some quick millions to get cover-girl bimbos to sit with him under the Xmas tree? Lord help his tender feelings if he has to actually play ball again with the team he signed a max contract with.

No, the players association are not going to ever roll over and play dead when dealing with the stinkin’, greedy owners, but how many are out there in front of the camera, defending Ben’s right to collect millions for not playing? He is the poster child of egocentric excess, which Shaq and Charles and just about everyone else made the easy case against when the whole thing first broke. Its definitely in the players association’s interest that this get resolved so that Ben is actually on the court when he collects all his money. While its in Daryl’s interest that Ben get back on the court (Yeah, we can handle the soap opera in this town. We’re used to it.) or he gets an offer worthy of a young man with enormous athleticism who maybe even at his next destination, relents and develops more skills to become a cornerstone of a championship contending franchise.

[Nate505]

Fine him until the end of his contract, and let the other owners share the cost under the table to end this type of behavior.

I’m not gonna cry crocodile tears for the stinkin’ owners and whatever impulsive move their front office makes, but Ben has singled handedly crippled the trend towards stars completely calling the shots, by behaving so despicably that the Players Association has no stomach to back him up. Definitely no pressure on Daryl not to wait on his best deal, and no groundswell for Ben to collect on a contract he will not fulfill.

You are kidding yourself if you think that the Ben Simmons situation isn't going to be front and center at the next NBPA negotiation.

Agents and players around the league are paying attention and the message sent is this:

Any team can trade you but if you ask for a trade be prepared to be fined and forced to sit out.

I get it, you are Sixers fan who is upset that 33M of your cap space has been tied up for over 1/3 of the regular season.

But let's stop acting like Ben Simmons is hated league round by other players, they all are watching this situation closely and wondering "what if I dont want to play for the team I signed a contract with, is the same thing going to happen to me?"

And just so you know, no NBA star will ever sign with the Sixers as long as Morey is the GM so if anyone lost from this charade it's the Sixers organization and the fans.

He asked for a deal 4+ months ago and his trade value continues to plummet. Morey tried moving him during last year's trade deadline and refused to throw in the required pieces to get the Harden deal done.

As usual Morey expected his trade partner to give up way more than they should so he can "win the trade" and feed his massive ego. He played his cards wrong considering he was dealing with his former boss and considering Harden had been asking out of Houston and he would have been the perfect pairing for Embiid, most likely ending in at least a Final's appearance esp considering the Nets almost went to the FInals without two of their top three players.

As of last season your team did not have the pieces necessary to make the Finals even in an injury depleted shortened season. What makes you think that the same team minus Ben Simmons is going to go further than they did last year?

Sixers fans are quick to forget that the guy averaged 12 pts, 8 rebounds, and 9 assists on 8 FG attempts while shooting 62% in last year's playoffs. You think your team is going to perform better than that without a guy that is almost averaging a triple double while playing top tier level defense?

This isnt about Ben Simmons, it's about Morey's ego, and now it's too late as no one wants to touch Simmons given the narrative surrounding the situation in the last 4+ months.

Harden had way more value than Simmons but because he asked out look at what the Rockets got in return.

It should be front and center, and hopefully during the next rounds of negotiations the players get absolutely, totally, completely hammered on this one. In this case they have no ground to stand on.

This is totally about Ben Simmons. He signed a contract to play. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to sign a contract to play. He signed it himself. Voluntarily. Of his own free will. And now he's not choosing to honor it, yet he's still trying to weasel his way to getting paid by claiming he has mental health issues, even though he's not willing to work with the team that he signed a contract for.

[Nate505]

Oh, no, stars will stop lining up to sign with Sixers, lmao. Please, think before typing, man.

This argument is so dumb that it's astonishing people still make it.

People use this one on Utah all the time. Some dumb Jazz fan says something stupid and it's "See here, this is why major free agents will never sign with the Jazz," like these guys really believe if there were some alternate world where everything (short of Salt Lake being a major US city with great weather) they use as a reason why free agents aren't signing with the Jazz, that all of a sudden big name free agents would just be lining up to sign with them.

[sfballa13]

Oh, no, stars will stop lining up to sign with Sixers, lmao. Please, think before typing, man.

This argument is so dumb that it's astonishing people still make it.

People use this one on Utah all the time. Some dumb Jazz fan says something stupid and it's "See here, this is why major free agents will never sign with the Jazz," like these guys really believe if there were some alternate world where everything (short of Salt Lake being a major US city with great weather) they use as a reason why free agents aren't signing with the Jazz, that all of a sudden big name free agents would just be lining up to sign with them.

So are you saying that there have never been professional athletes on contract who request a trade?

What about the gigantic buy outs we have seen in the past decade in the NBA? Barely any cap flexibility is gained by the buy outs, so why would an NBA owner pay a large sum of money to a player that is never going to contribute to their team again?

It's because they want the good will of the NBA players and their agents. Simple as that.

Plenty of NBA players have based their signings on who the GM is, who the coach is, who the ownership is.

This entire situation reflects horribly on both the GM and the Sixers ownership.

NBA players don't have a short memory like you, neither do agents.

Even after Ray Allen won a championship with the Celtics, he was constantly mentioned in trade rumors and when he became a free agent he took a massive pay cut to play with the Celtics' biggest rivals, the Heat. You think that's a coincidence?

You genuinely think a big name NBA free agent who can sign anywhere and isn't worried about the money is going to want to play for a GM/owner who could hold them hostage if they want out?

[sfballa13]

Oh no the poor owners!!! We should start a GoFundMe!
Hope he can buy Christmas gifts for his family during this holiday season.

So you want to start a GoFundMe for poor Ben, who got his feelings hurt for refusing to shoot at the end of game 7 and has blown through $70 million bucks on Ferraris and luxury pads, and needs some quick millions to get cover-girl bimbos to sit with him under the Xmas tree? Lord help his tender feelings if he has to actually play ball again with the team he signed a max contract with.

No, the players association are not going to ever roll over and play dead when dealing with the stinkin’, greedy owners, but how many are out there in front of the camera, defending Ben’s right to collect millions for not playing? He is the poster child of egocentric excess, which Shaq and Charles and just about everyone else made the easy case against when the whole thing first broke. Its definitely in the players association’s interest that this get resolved so that Ben is actually on the court when he collects all his money. While its in Daryl’s interest that Ben get back on the court (Yeah, we can handle the soap opera in this town. We’re used to it.) or he gets an offer worthy of a young man with enormous athleticism who maybe even at his next destination, relents and develops more skills to become a cornerstone of a championship contending franchise.

Man, some Sixers fans are delusional.

You actually believe that after all this, a Ben Simmons trade is going to net the Sixers a "young man with enormous athleticism who can be the cornerstone of a championship contender" ??

Hilarious.

[Filthadelphia]

Butler was leaving, again nothing philly could really have done there either

Butler said he would go along with whatever his family decided, and said they told him to take the max with Philly. Butler told his caretaker at the house he was renting in Ambler PA that he would be gone the whole summer, but he planned to be back. Jimmy had a great partnership with Embiid and got along great with Philly fans. Then Harris decided to renew Brett’s contract, and Brett said that Jimmy would have to be under control. Jimmy had questioned the team's lack of preparation when he first got there, and went public about the need to run even the basics, like pick and rolls. (Jimmy might make a great coach someday.) Brett was now saying Jimmy had to be muzzled if he wasn’t gone. So Jimmy said so long, and Miami gave us Richardson and went to the finals. And then Brett was finally gone, too late, after Brand paid Harris the max and signed Horford.

What's the source on this?

[rzzzzz]

Man, some Sixers fans are delusional.

You actually believe that after all this, a Ben Simmons trade is going to net the Sixers a "young man with enormous athleticism who can be the cornerstone of a championship contender" ??

Hilarious.

Dude, its not like the Sixer’s phone ain’t ringing. LA just called. NO just called. The Knicks just called. Lillard wants him. Pop wants him. Indiana offered two starters. And on and on. Just like Morey is waiting it out for the best offer, everybody else is waiting it out to get him for a bag of beans. Or to take some large, unwanted contracts off their hands. That’s their job right now. Later on teams, including the Sixers, might give up more or take less as they look towards the playoffs, or in some cases, like Sacramento, clearing out the FO if they still can’t make the playoffs. Which is where Simmons will at least take you. We may do a trade like Indiana or Portland has already offered. We don’t need a franchise player. We’re still betting on Embiid. And it would take a top player to make us throw in Maxey in the deal. But I would like a promising young prospect along with a good rotation guy. And maybe we eat a contract.

[Tomjas]

I’m not gonna cry crocodile tears for the stinkin’ owners and whatever impulsive move their front office makes, but Ben has singled handedly crippled the trend towards stars completely calling the shots, by behaving so despicably that the Players Association has no stomach to back him up. Definitely no pressure on Daryl not to wait on his best deal, and no groundswell for Ben to collect on a contract he will not fulfill.

You are kidding yourself if you think that the Ben Simmons situation isn't going to be front and center at the next NBPA negotiation.

Agents and players around the league are paying attention and the message sent is this:

Any team can trade you but if you ask for a trade be prepared to be fined and forced to sit out.

I get it, you are Sixers fan who is upset that 33M of your cap space has been tied up for over 1/3 of the regular season.

But let's stop acting like Ben Simmons is hated league round by other players, they all are watching this situation closely and wondering "what if I dont want to play for the team I signed a contract with, is the same thing going to happen to me?"

And just so you know, no NBA star will ever sign with the Sixers as long as Morey is the GM so if anyone lost from this charade it's the Sixers organization and the fans.

He asked for a deal 4+ months ago and his trade value continues to plummet. Morey tried moving him during last year's trade deadline and refused to throw in the required pieces to get the Harden deal done.

As usual Morey expected his trade partner to give up way more than they should so he can "win the trade" and feed his massive ego. He played his cards wrong considering he was dealing with his former boss and considering Harden had been asking out of Houston and he would have been the perfect pairing for Embiid, most likely ending in at least a Final's appearance esp considering the Nets almost went to the FInals without two of their top three players.

As of last season your team did not have the pieces necessary to make the Finals even in an injury depleted shortened season. What makes you think that the same team minus Ben Simmons is going to go further than they did last year?

Sixers fans are quick to forget that the guy averaged 12 pts, 8 rebounds, and 9 assists on 8 FG attempts while shooting 62% in last year's playoffs. You think your team is going to perform better than that without a guy that is almost averaging a triple double while playing top tier level defense?

This isnt about Ben Simmons, it's about Morey's ego, and now it's too late as no one wants to touch Simmons given the narrative surrounding the situation in the last 4+ months.

Harden had way more value than Simmons but because he asked out look at what the Rockets got in return.

It should be front and center, and hopefully during the next rounds of negotiations the players get absolutely, totally, completely hammered on this one. In this case they have no ground to stand on.

This is totally about Ben Simmons. He signed a contract to play. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to sign a contract to play. He signed it himself. Voluntarily. Of his own free will. And now he's not choosing to honor it, yet he's still trying to weasel his way to getting paid by claiming he has mental health issues, even though he's not willing to work with the team that he signed a contract for.

Simmons is working with the team

[JujitsuFlip]

Per Michael Scotto the Pelicans tried to acquire Ben Simmons without including Brandon Ingram. Lol uhhhh

[Tomjas]

Per Michael Scotto the Pelicans tried to acquire Ben Simmons without including Brandon Ingram. Lol uhhhh

Impossible to determine value without knowing details re picks

[Asianiac_24]

So is Ben Simmons still getting paid? I really hope not. If he is, the next CBA negotiation should have a Ben Simmons rule.

[HotelVitale]

Oh no the poor owners!!! We should start a GoFundMe!
Hope he can buy Christmas gifts for his family during this holiday season.

While its in Daryl’s interest that Ben get back on the court (Yeah, we can handle the soap opera in this town. We’re used to it.) or he gets an offer worthy of a young man with enormous athleticism who maybe even at his next destination, relents and develops more skills to become a cornerstone of a championship contending franchise.

Man, some Sixers fans are delusional. You actually believe that after all this, a Ben Simmons trade is going to net the Sixers a "young man with enormous athleticism who can be the cornerstone of a championship contender" ?? Hilarious.

Give it another read there, guy. That 'young man' in this quote is Ben Simmons.

But once again, while it's always funny when powerful people are idiots, Morey has never said that he's waiting for a team to cough up a superstar for for Simmons. The plan he keeps droning on about is packaging Simmons with 1sts and guys like Maxey and Thybulle to make a move for those guys, and even people who don't like Simmons would have to admit that's likely to be a pretty competitive offer if those guys ever become available.

[JujitsuFlip]

Per Michael Scotto the Pelicans tried to acquire Ben Simmons without including Brandon Ingram. Lol uhhhh

Impossible to determine value without knowing details re picks

In theory they could do a Lakers 2022 FRP swap, unprotected Pelicans 2023 FRP, one of Lakers/Pelicans unprotected 2024 FRP, one of Bucks/Pelicans unprotected 2025 FRP, 2026 FRP swap, one of Bucks/Pelicans unprotected 2027 FRP, and unprotected Pelicans 2028 FRP.

Even knowing that, doesn't seem like enough while Pelicans get to retain Zion and Ingram.