NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[Sharkboy242]

This thread is pretty toxic with Jokic fans rushing in to slap down anyone who tries to bring up other people but it is what it is.

His team just won against a playoff team without him and it either means nothing or is really more proof of how great he is.

The insecurity would make sense if he hadn't won before but he's the reigning two time MVP. Like we all get he's good you don't have to inject him into every conversation.

How wild is it that people are injecting Jokic into a conversation thats in a thread about the MVP?

Crazy times here folks, stay safe out there.

[Black star]

This thread is pretty toxic with Jokic fans rushing in to slap down anyone who tries to bring up other people but it is what it is.

His team just won against a playoff team without him and it either means nothing or is really more proof of how great he is.

The insecurity would make sense if he hadn't won before but he's the reigning two time MVP. Like we all get he's good you don't have to inject him into every conversation.

His team won against the 8 seed who was missing their leading scorer as well...

They were up 40 against said "playoff team" when Jokic played, and beat that playoff team (sans their leading scorer) when Jokic sat by 12...

Not sure that this is the argument that you think it is...

Gotcha so if they had lost that game it would have showed how mediocre his supporting cast is and how they need Jokic to be a competent team. But they won the game so instead they didn't beat a good team by enough points so its meaningless. I'm not sure that argument is very sound either.

He has a good team. That doesn't make him a worse player.

[SA37]

To me the MVP is clearly Jokic.

As of now he is on pace for a career high in FG % (62%) and assists (9.7, good for 3rd in the league), which puts him within a whisper of averaging a triple-double for the season. He's also 2nd in DD and 1st in TD. His scoring is down, but he is also taking ~3 less shots per game than in the past 2 years.

If Denver finishes with a top-5 record, I don't see how anyone could choose someone other than Jokic.

Top-5

1. Jokic
2. Tatum
3. Morant
4. Giannis
5. Doncic

[Ryoga Hibiki]

The ultimate question is, will he be held to the same standards as other multiple MVP award winners if he doesn't win? Because despite him having the #1 seed,a favorite to win a 3rd consecutive MVP, and some calling him the best player in the league, there is literally no pressure at all for him to win a title. Unlike Lebron, Giannis, or even Durant to a lesser extent(1 MVP).

I dont want to get into the obvious other factors of why voters seem to overlook jokics playoffs struggles and continue to vote for him for mvp when for years the playoffs was the main reason why the same said voters didnt vote for james harden multiple times for mvp when he should have 3 easily under the same criteria they are using to give it to jokic

its all a moot point anyway draymond has already alluded to this fact the problem on one of his podcasts, which is why he and stephen a smith had a back and forth. And the players are more than likely going to get those voting priveldges back during the next cba agreement

hopefully not the cutrent panel is way more qualified

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Lol at the idea that voters want to give Jokic the award based on race…because at the end of the day, he’s doughy, traditionally unathletic, doesn’t slam it home and block shots into the stands and his apathy to the award is a slap in the face to their power.

They have myriad reasons not to vote for him but they still do nonetheless because there’s simply no one in the league more important to the success of their team. And they vote with gritted teeth but I don’t think they are too happy about it. Skin color be damned.

Disagree. Luka is way more important to his team than Jokic and its not even an argument.

The Nuggets just handedly beat a Clippers team on the road without Jokic. The Mav's would be lucky to win 15 games all season without Luka. The Nuggets are a 30-35 win team at best without Jokic. There is a massive difference in talent between the two supporting casts here and people need to stop pretending as if there isn't for the sake of propping up Jokic.

Jokic in terms of importance is basically on par with Giannis/Bucks or KD/Nets.

If you’re trying to argue the point with me, it’s an argument. Hence, it is an argument.

This Mavs team is basically the same team as last year only you swap Wood for Brunson. They won 7 RS games last year without Luka including two playoff games. Maybe the discussion should be more about how valuable Brunson was for that team. So Luka is now playing the whole year without his second best player. Boohoo. Jokic did it last year and I don’t recall you trying to give Jokic MVP support even though he was surrounded by g-league talent and it was one of the greatest carry jobs in NBA history.

If Jokic can get 46 wins with Gordon/Barton/Rivers, I see no reason why Luka can’t get that with Dinwiddie/Wood/THJ

forget that, he won a playoff round with a backcourt of Facundo Campazzo and Austin Rivers.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

All this toxicity when others don't agree on who should be MVP is a shame. To me it should be Jokic now with Luka an inch behind and a handful of others who could stake a claim with a strong second half of the season but if the majority of this board decides it should be Alex Caruso then so be it. It's fine to not always be in the majority.

while there are people going to far with the support for Jokic, it seems to me that all the arguments to downplay his candidacy are Richard Jefferson dumb.
I mean, I totally get that someone might take Luka, Tatum or Durant, thay are worthy candidates and it's close enough, unless Jokic runs away with the best record by a significant margin.
But pls don’t come out with silly arguments behind such decision.

[bisme37]

Just to speak my peace on the little tiff that happened yesterday...

I'm the OP of this thread and I haven't even been clicking on it lately lol. I said something a few weeks ago and got called a delusional homer, and then yesterday I was angrily accused of cherry picking or something. (Like, what, was I supposed to post a graphic of how MVP candidates perform with none of their teammates on the court? That doesn't even happen to make a graphic about it.)

The posts I got chewed out for were positive and insulted no player or poster. It was just, hey look, my guy Tatum is good. Or even, hey look, all these players are good. I am an NBA fan and appreciate all the great players and I feel like I should be comfortable posting here without getting run out of town.

We all get that Jokic, Luka etc are amazing. There are a crap ton of posts about their amazingness. Other players are good too and should be welcome in the conversation without it being a federal offense. And friendly reminder that this thread is just for fun and our posts don't actually change anything in real life or make our preferred player the MVP lol. That's all I wanted to say about that. Carry on.

[Cubbies2120]

This thread is pretty toxic with Jokic fans rushing in to slap down anyone who tries to bring up other people but it is what it is.

His team just won against a playoff team without him and it either means nothing or is really more proof of how great he is.

The insecurity would make sense if he hadn't won before but he's the reigning two time MVP. Like we all get he's good you don't have to inject him into every conversation.

His team won against the 8 seed who was missing their leading scorer as well...

They were up 40 against said "playoff team" when Jokic played, and beat that playoff team (sans their leading scorer) when Jokic sat by 12...

Not sure that this is the argument that you think it is...

Gotcha so if they had lost that game it would have showed how mediocre his supporting cast is and how they need Jokic to be a competent team. But they won the game so instead they didn't beat a good team by enough points so its meaningless. I'm not sure that argument is very sound either.

He has a good team. That doesn't make him a worse player.

The Nuggets are a much better team outside of Jokic than they were last year - they'd probably win 35ish games without him this year, whereas last year would have been a struggle to get to 20 wins.

Just saying I don't think beating the 8-seed Clippers w/o their leading scorer is a big achievement, especially when you beat said team by 30+ just a few weeks ago WITH their leading scorer.

[Infinite Llamas]

Just to speak my peace on the little tiff that happened yesterday...

I'm the OP of this thread and I haven't even been clicking on it lately lol. I said something a few weeks ago and got called a delusional homer, and then yesterday I was angrily accused of cherry picking or something. The posts I got chewed out for were positive and insulted no player or poster. It was just, hey look, my guy Tatum is good. Or even, hey look, all these players are good. I am an NBA fan and appreciate all the great players and I feel like I should be comfortable posting here without getting run out of town.

We all get that Jokic, Luka etc are amazing. There are a crap ton of posts about their amazingness. Other players are good too and should be welcome in the conversation without it being a federal offense. And friendly reminder that this thread is just for fun and our posts don't actually change anything in real life or make our preferred player the MVP lol. That's all I wanted to say about that. Carry on.

I mean, this wouldn’t be a thread if there wasn’t an argument to engage in, so yeah, it is nice to have other names mentioned.

I think the toxicity comes from false narratives being pushed and that’s often why people will come to defend a certain player. When it gets stated that Denver has a championship roster in the bubble, you know that’s gonna generate some responses lol. To me, there’s arguing and then there is arguing in bad faith, and that’s why the thread sometimes spirals.

I’ve seen every game of Tatums career and the player that he has become…in the conversation for MVP…is just a testament to the hard work he has put in. He’s one hell of a player and as long as we are #1, it’s disrespectful to not include him here, just as Booker was in the conversation last year. We are blessed that there are so many great players in this league.

[maxwellcu]

Just to speak my peace on the little tiff that happened yesterday...

I'm the OP of this thread and I haven't even been clicking on it lately lol. I said something a few weeks ago and got called a delusional homer, and then yesterday I was angrily accused of cherry picking or something. (Like, what, was I supposed to post a graphic of how MVP candidates perform with none of their teammates on the court? That doesn't even happen to make a graphic about it.)

The posts I got chewed out for were positive and insulted no player or poster. It was just, hey look, my guy Tatum is good. Or even, hey look, all these players are good. I am an NBA fan and appreciate all the great players and I feel like I should be comfortable posting here without getting run out of town.

We all get that Jokic, Luka etc are amazing. There are a crap ton of posts about their amazingness. Other players are good too and should be welcome in the conversation without it being a federal offense. And friendly reminder that this thread is just for fun and our posts don't actually change anything in real life or make our preferred player the MVP lol. That's all I wanted to say about that. Carry on.

For my part, while I wasn't intending to be inflammatory I can also see how a reasonable person might read my comment that way. So for that, you have my apologies.

On the other hand, I think vigorous debate is kind of the spirit of these threads, no?

[Drakeem]

Just to speak my peace on the little tiff that happened yesterday...

I'm the OP of this thread and I haven't even been clicking on it lately lol. I said something a few weeks ago and got called a delusional homer, and then yesterday I was angrily accused of cherry picking or something. The posts I got chewed out for were positive and insulted no player or poster. It was just, hey look, my guy Tatum is good. Or even, hey look, all these players are good. I am an NBA fan and appreciate all the great players and I feel like I should be comfortable posting here without getting run out of town.

We all get that Jokic, Luka etc are amazing. There are a crap ton of posts about their amazingness. Other players are good too and should be welcome in the conversation without it being a federal offense. And friendly reminder that this thread is just for fun and our posts don't actually change anything in real life or make our preferred player the MVP lol. That's all I wanted to say about that. Carry on.

I mean, this wouldn’t be a thread if there wasn’t an argument to engage in, so yeah, it is nice to have other names mentioned.

I think the toxicity comes from false narratives being pushed and that’s often why people will come to defend a certain player. When it gets stated that Denver has a championship roster in the bubble, you know that’s gonna generate some responses lol. To me, there’s arguing and then there is arguing in bad faith, and that’s why the thread sometimes spirals.

I’ve seen every game of Tatums career and the player that he has become…in the conversation for MVP…is just a testament to the hard work he has put in. He’s one hell of a player and as long as we are #1, it’s disrespectful to not include him here, just as Booker was in the conversation last year. We are blessed that there are so many great players in this league.

To be fair, Booker was never really IN the convo. Sure, he was brought up to be in top 5 of MVP voting but that's like saying Mitchell and Levert combined for 81 against Chicago. Sure, I guess you're right, but we're missing a lot of context.

Tatum has a much, much stronger case since IMO he's just the much better player when comparing him and Booker so I don't want to make it seem like I'm saying he's in the same boat, but he's definitely an outside shot, even though I think he'll be right in the thick of things if Boston can be the #1 seed.

[bisme37]

Just to speak my peace on the little tiff that happened yesterday...

I'm the OP of this thread and I haven't even been clicking on it lately lol. I said something a few weeks ago and got called a delusional homer, and then yesterday I was angrily accused of cherry picking or something. (Like, what, was I supposed to post a graphic of how MVP candidates perform with none of their teammates on the court? That doesn't even happen to make a graphic about it.)

The posts I got chewed out for were positive and insulted no player or poster. It was just, hey look, my guy Tatum is good. Or even, hey look, all these players are good. I am an NBA fan and appreciate all the great players and I feel like I should be comfortable posting here without getting run out of town.

We all get that Jokic, Luka etc are amazing. There are a crap ton of posts about their amazingness. Other players are good too and should be welcome in the conversation without it being a federal offense. And friendly reminder that this thread is just for fun and our posts don't actually change anything in real life or make our preferred player the MVP lol. That's all I wanted to say about that. Carry on.

For my part, while I wasn't intending to be inflammatory I can also see how a reasonable person might read my comment that way. So for that, you have my apologies.

On the other hand, I think vigorous debate is kind of the spirit of these threads, no?

I enjoy debate. I didn't take your response as debate. It seemed more like you got knee-jerk mad and dismissed my post out of hand. And accused me of cherry picking when to me it was more like you were cherry picking reasons to think it was stupid. And if the point was to have a conversation, you didn't even quote me.

I appreciate your response today though and apologize if I misunderstood you. I don't take this stuff too personally and won't even remember this by tomorrow lol. Cheers.

[DCasey91]

1. Jokic - Having an amazing year. Has a better team than the past two seasons but make no mistake he’s the chief, the commissioner and the conductor of the team. Those mentioning the Clippers, please they aren’t much chop, right now OKC are plenty more dangerous.

2. Luka - Hardest carry job this year to excellent results. Phenomenal prodigy. Now there is a comparison between the two if you include the last 3 seasons. Both have suffered from having sub standard lists but exceeded my personal expectation.

3. Tatum - Reminiscent of George’s MVP like run? The numbers aren’t that dissimilar in fact. Great year

4. Embiid - Having a career year, twice a runner up missing games again but his impact is undeniable

5. Could be a list of players but I like Morant here. Don’t have Giannis top 5 as his year has been his worst for some time. Gaudy stats but the efficiency is just not there.

*I’m an idiot I just forgot my fav player to watch lol Durant damn it. Man too many candidates that are too close. Can see him as high as 3 but certainly top 5 sorry Morant.

[bisme37]

Just to lighten the mood in here, this is pretty dang cute from a few years ago. JT probably won't win MVP this year but he'll always have the Skills Challenge win haha.

Read on Twitter

[playa-hater]

Just to speak my peace on the little tiff that happened yesterday...

I'm the OP of this thread and I haven't even been clicking on it lately lol. I said something a few weeks ago and got called a delusional homer, and then yesterday I was angrily accused of cherry picking or something. (Like, what, was I supposed to post a graphic of how MVP candidates perform with none of their teammates on the court? That doesn't even happen to make a graphic about it.)

The posts I got chewed out for were positive and insulted no player or poster. It was just, hey look, my guy Tatum is good. Or even, hey look, all these players are good. I am an NBA fan and appreciate all the great players and I feel like I should be comfortable posting here without getting run out of town.

We all get that Jokic, Luka etc are amazing. There are a crap ton of posts about their amazingness. Other players are good too and should be welcome in the conversation without it being a federal offense. And friendly reminder that this thread is just for fun and our posts don't actually change anything in real life or make our preferred player the MVP lol. That's all I wanted to say about that. Carry on.

so what you're saying is that you started this madness?? Burn him to the stake!!!!

[Duke4life831]

Just to speak my peace on the little tiff that happened yesterday...

I'm the OP of this thread and I haven't even been clicking on it lately lol. I said something a few weeks ago and got called a delusional homer, and then yesterday I was angrily accused of cherry picking or something. (Like, what, was I supposed to post a graphic of how MVP candidates perform with none of their teammates on the court? That doesn't even happen to make a graphic about it.)

The posts I got chewed out for were positive and insulted no player or poster. It was just, hey look, my guy Tatum is good. Or even, hey look, all these players are good. I am an NBA fan and appreciate all the great players and I feel like I should be comfortable posting here without getting run out of town.

We all get that Jokic, Luka etc are amazing. There are a crap ton of posts about their amazingness. Other players are good too and should be welcome in the conversation without it being a federal offense. And friendly reminder that this thread is just for fun and our posts don't actually change anything in real life or make our preferred player the MVP lol. That's all I wanted to say about that. Carry on.

You are walking a fine line sir. With all your shenanigans with the day threads (leaving some teams out of the polls and even posting a picture with a wrong game on it). Now even mentioning a player that at the moment is a consensus top 5 pick for the MVP. Whats going to be next, if there is a thread asking who are some of the favorites to win it all youre going to bring up the Celtics?

Your posts over the last week or so have been disturbing to say the least.

[NBA4Lyfe]

The ultimate question is, will he be held to the same standards as other multiple MVP award winners if he doesn't win? Because despite him having the #1 seed,a favorite to win a 3rd consecutive MVP, and some calling him the best player in the league, there is literally no pressure at all for him to win a title. Unlike Lebron, Giannis, or even Durant to a lesser extent(1 MVP).

I dont want to get into the obvious other factors of why voters seem to overlook jokics playoffs struggles and continue to vote for him for mvp when for years the playoffs was the main reason why the same said voters didnt vote for james harden multiple times for mvp when he should have 3 easily under the same criteria they are using to give it to jokic

its all a moot point anyway draymond has already alluded to this fact the problem on one of his podcasts, which is why he and stephen a smith had a back and forth. And the players are more than likely going to get those voting priveldges back during the next cba agreement

hopefully not the cutrent panel is way more qualified

the nba has no one to blame but itself, this problem all started because the media didnt wanna vote harden all-nba in 2016 and then doubled down and changed the narrative to rob harden of mvp in 2017. In my opinion their was a criteria for mvp before they messed that up, now all-nba selections are attached to supermax contracts and harden has not made an all-nba in 3 years, if harden keeps up his current numbers and doesnt get voted to all nba again this year, then i believe harden has a legit case to sue the nba for lost monetary damages

the players are stopping this problem before its gets out of hand, when bias voters like bill simmons and zach lowe hold grudges againist certain players that effect their money it becomes a problem

[Mickey8]

Tonight's game is the prime example why Jokic is far from being MVP front runner this season and personally I don't have him in the MVP race at all. I don't care that he scored a game winning three, once again he was passive entire game , he took 11 shots and he refused to take the shots even against 3,4 inch's shorter players. In the third quarter he practically did nothing , yet he will get the high praises , how he was great facilitator etc. You can't be MVP candidate if you are deferring to your teammates. They were lucky they won this game but if this was the loss , this would have been another loss on Jokic this season. Where he wasn't aggressive and was playing alibi basketball, hiding behind his teammates. Its too bad, because he can dominate games when he wants to, but this season he's been way too inconsistent . He just don't want it this season, which is the shame.

[Duke4life831]

Tonight's game is the prime example why Jokic is far from being MVP front runner this season and personally I don't have him in the MVP race at all. I don't care that he scored a game winning three, once again he was passive entire game , he took 11 shots and he refused to take the shots even against 3,4 inch's shorter players. In the third quarter he practically did nothing , yet he will get the high praises , how he was great facilitator etc. You can't be MVP candidate if you are deferring to your teammates. They were lucky they won this game but if this was the loss , this would have been another loss on Jokic this season. Where he wasn't aggressive and was playing alibi basketball, hiding behind his teammates. Its too bad, because he can dominate games when he wants to, but this season he's been way too inconsistent . He just don't want it this season, which is shame.

Jokic was the team high +16 in +/-. It was the bench that blew the lead tonight and he had to get the lead back in the 4th when he came back in.

You pick some really weird games to come in and say its a prime example why Jokic shouldnt win MVP. The dude just put up a triple double with 14 assists on 8-11 shooting, team high +16, and hit the game winner. Yet this is a prime example why he isnt even in the MVP race in your opinion? Honestly this is multiple times now where I honestly have no clue what point youre trying to make.

It is the MVP discussion, not the scoring title discussion.

[Mickey8]

He was the main reason why Orlando was lingering in the third quarter . He should have put them away, all he was doing in the third quarter was running up and down. At least in the first half he was facilitating , but in the third quarter he did nothing, it was the completely an empty quarter for him and there are plenty of the games this season for him like this one tonight. There isn't a single reason why he should have taken only 11 attempts in the game, when he's the best scorer on that team. He can score in every possible way, pick and roll and pop, driving the basketball, posting people up, shooting three's He's average should be 20 attempts per game. Scoring the ball is a very important part if you are aiming to win MVP award. The Suns last two seasons were playing a great basketball yet nobody was taking Chris Paul seriously as the MVP candidate.