Josh Smith and Monta Ellis got screwed! (again...)

[panthermark]

As I said in another thread, I wish this silly notion of "this team "deserves" X All Stars" is done away with at some point. There is no actual argument there. The All Star selection by its very nature is about individual accomplishment. That is the only criteria to determine who should be All Stars or not. Josh Smith's numbers are clearly better than the other reserve forwards and as a result he should be an All Star. The same argument applies to Joe Johnson versus other two guards and Al Horford (when he's healthy) over other centers.

As for "why the Hawks have not been a better team" are you kidding me? The Hawks make the second round of the playoffs for several seasons in a row. That by itself puts them in the top eight teams in the entire NBA. How much "better" should they be? As I said that argument has no water to it.

There is no specific amount of All-Stars per win formula. But there is a correlation between a great player who helps his team win vs a player who puts up nice stats, but does not always lead their teams to wins....and most people can tell the difference.

And yes, why have the Hawks not been a better team? In your mind, or at least by your own criteria, the Hawks have 3 legit All-Stars.

How many teams out there have 3 legit All-Stars and are not, nor have been, actual legit contenders?
2008-09 - 47-35, swept out of the 2nd round.
2009-10 - 53-29, swept out of the 2nd round.
2010-11 - 44-38, lost in the 2nd round in 6 games.

Going a combined 2 and 12 over the 3 years in the 2nd round with so many "deserving" is a bit on the underachieving side....especially when Crawford won the 6th man of the year award in 09-10 as well.

As someone else mentioned, there are more All-Star level players than All-Star spots. Deal with it.
Smith is the guy I would choose as an injury replacement over Melo...but if he does not get in....he does not get in.

[betta1]

http://twitter.com/#...765332524670976

@realchriswebber
Chris Webber
Josh smith. Call 911.You got robbed. No mask no gloves- its fingerprints- all over the place call first 48-no call Atlanta CSI- Call the FBI

[WhatsaTDot]

Didn't read 9 pages of waammmbulance but I saw on page 1 someone say Granger should have made it.

[betta1]

@JCrossover
Jamal Crawford
On the other side of things, don't know what else Josh Smith can do to be an all star smh..

@TurnerSportsPR
TurnerSportsPR
"Josh Smith deserved to make the All-Star team; he’s been the best player on the Atlanta Hawks this year" – Charles Barkley

[gswhoops]

Jesus, the level of disrespect Monta gets on RGM has reached epic proportions. Dude's an incredibly gifted offensive player, well above average passer/distributer for a SG, and an absolute warrior.

Should he be a team's #1 option? Probably not. But to compare his efficiency as the #1 option and primary focus of opposing defenses to someone like Harden, who has the luxury of coming off the bench and playing in the shadow of guys like Durant and Westbrook, is comparing apples and lawn furniture.

I'm fine if you want to argue that he doesn't deserve to be an All-Star over someone like Nash, there's a legitimate argument there. But to talk up Harden as more worth of an AS spot while calling Monta a "no impact" or "negative impact" player is completely and totally ridiculous.

End rant.

[Hotstove907]

Jsmooth should have made it but don't look at Deng look @ you're own team's selection. JJ over him is a robbery.

[dice]

you broke down his #s and didn't notice that he's a so-so rebounder and has a poor TS%? his numbers certainly don't justify being an allstar

top 20 among all eligible players including Centers in rebounding while playing for one of the slowest paced teams in the league. I think its fair to say he is ATLEAST an above average rebounder for his position.

let's nip the numbers comparison argument in the bud, shall we? we'll start with offense and average last season equally with this mini-season:

1) deng 16.7 on 53% TS
2) iggy 13.6 on 53% TS
3) josh 16.0 on 51% TS

josh ranks last despite the fact that PFs tend to have a higher TS% than SFs. he's actually hurting his team offensively. and i can see why given the shot selection

rebounding per 36:

1) iggy 6.2 (+0.5 compared to league average for majority minute SFs)
2) deng 6.1 (+0.4)
3) josh 8.7 (-0.6 compared to league average for majority minute PFs)

josh again ranks last

opponent EFG%* (measures man-to-man defense on primary defensive responsibility):

1) deng 44.5%
2) iggy 46.6%
3) josh 53.5%

josh ranks last...with a bullet!

opponent PPS (synergy stat which covers help defense as well)

1) iggy .798 (outstanding)
2) josh .848
3) deng .848

a/to:

1) iggy 5.7/2.0 (superb)
2) josh 3.3/2.5
3) deng 2.6/1.8


steals + blocks:

1) josh 3.1
2) iggy 2.2
3) deng 1.8

josh ftw!

*'10-'11 data from 82games.com

are there intangibles he brings to the table that i'm missing? great teammate? leader? best team record? no? so josh ranks last in the intangibles category too

so how was josh robbed again?

[ItsSensei]

I'd like Ellis to make it in, but the entire West Team deserves on making the team.
I'd take Iggy and Pierce (he was injured for a while) out of the East team though.

[BROWN]

My picks would've been Gay for Dirk, Parker or Nash out for Ellis (More Parker)...

On the east I would've had Josh in for Joe

Granger for Pierce

Rondo for Williams

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

you broke down his #s and didn't notice that he's a so-so rebounder and has a poor TS%? his numbers certainly don't justify being an allstar

top 20 among all eligible players including Centers in rebounding while playing for one of the slowest paced teams in the league. I think its fair to say he is ATLEAST an above average rebounder for his position.

let's nip the numbers comparison argument in the bud, shall we? we'll start with offense and average last season equally with this mini-season:

1) deng 16.7 on 53% TS
2) iggy 13.6 on 53% TS
3) josh 16.0 on 51% TS

josh ranks last despite the fact that PFs tend to have a higher TS% than SFs. he's actually hurting his team offensively. and i can see why given the shot selection

rebounding per 36:

1) iggy 6.2 (+0.5 compared to league average for majority minute SFs)
2) deng 6.1 (+0.4)
3) josh 8.7 (-0.6 compared to league average for majority minute PFs)

josh again ranks last

opponent EFG%* (measures man-to-man defense on primary defensive responsibility):

1) deng 44.5%
2) iggy 46.6%
3) josh 53.5%

josh ranks last...with a bullet!

opponent PPS (synergy stat which covers help defense as well)

1) iggy .798 (outstanding)
2) josh .848
3) deng .848

a/to:

1) iggy 5.7/2.0 (superb)
2) josh 3.3/2.5
3) deng 2.6/1.8


steals + blocks:

1) josh 3.1
2) iggy 2.2
3) deng 1.8

josh ftw!

*'10-'11 data from 82games.com

are there intangibles he brings to the table that i'm missing? great teammate? leader? best team record? no? so josh ranks last in the intangibles category too

so how was josh robbed again?

Damn good post, Dice-man.

[Parataxis]

Picking Steve Nash and Deron Williams over Josh Smith and Monta Ellis is as worse as the David Stern Veto on the Lakers-Hornets-Rockets trade!!!

How can you possibly think that Steve Nash doesn't deserve to be an All-star this year???

[panthermark]

Picking Steve Nash and Deron Williams over Josh Smith and Monta Ellis is as worse as the David Stern Veto on the Lakers-Hornets-Rockets trade!!!

How can you possibly think that Steve Nash doesn't deserve to be an All-star this year???

I have no clue how people are trying to leave Nash out.

Dude leads the league in dimes per game, and is rocking a PER of 24.1 and a TS% of .657!

[NashtyNas]

Jesus, the level of disrespect Monta gets on RGM has reached epic proportions. Dude's an incredibly gifted offensive player, well above average passer/distributer for a SG, and an absolute warrior.

Should he be a team's #1 option? Probably not. But to compare his efficiency as the #1 option and primary focus of opposing defenses to someone like Harden, who has the luxury of coming off the bench and playing in the shadow of guys like Durant and Westbrook, is comparing apples and lawn furniture.

I'm fine if you want to argue that he doesn't deserve to be an All-Star over someone like Nash, there's a legitimate argument there. But to talk up Harden as more worth of an AS spot while calling Monta a "no impact" or "negative impact" player is completely and totally ridiculous.

End rant.

There's some logic to your rant, but not a lot really. I don't care if Harden comes off the bench, does that change the fact that he's still more efficient in doing what he does, and he does a lot more, all more effectively, all in less time than Ellis, while not being the focal point.

Harden is good. Should he have been an All Star? Not at all. Should Ellis? Probably. Over Nash? Nope. Over Parker? Absolutely not. So who would he replace? Westbrook? Nah, his teams ahead, so he deserves it.

This is why Ellis is not on there.

Josh Smith was a pure snub, theres no excuse for that.

[dice]

Damn good post, Dice-man.

you da man, biggie

[dice]

Picking Steve Nash and Deron Williams over Josh Smith and Monta Ellis is as worse as the David Stern Veto on the Lakers-Hornets-Rockets trade!!!

How can you possibly think that Steve Nash doesn't deserve to be an All-star this year???

I have no clue how people are trying to leave Nash out.

Dude leads the league in dimes per game, and is rocking a PER of 24.1 and a TS% of .657!

ray allen .656 too. he was an all-star last year. don't hear many people complaining about that snub

[dice]

Josh Smith was a pure snub, theres no excuse for that.

josh smith not being all that good is a decent excuse

[betta1]

Josh Smith was a pure snub, theres no excuse for that.

josh smith not being all that good is a decent excuse

Do you pride yourself on these types of dumb comments?

[panthermark]

I have no clue how people are trying to leave Nash out.

Dude leads the league in dimes per game, and is rocking a PER of 24.1 and a TS% of .657!

ray allen .656 too. he was an all-star last year. don't hear many people complaining about that snub

I guess Boston fans are wise enough to understand that unless you are 30-0 or something....you can't put EVERYONE of your borderline players on the All-Star team....even if some could make a case for it.

[orlandomanic]

Josh Smith was a pure snub, theres no excuse for that.

josh smith not being all that good is a decent excuse

Do you pride yourself on these types of dumb comments?

dice is the realgm king when it comes to dumb comments

[NekiEcko]

@dice,

Wow, I wonder if you even look at Hawks games or just shooting your foot about this. Josh can be loose cannon but he can bring so much to the table, its insane. If he play under control and playing like a PF/SF should be(pound the inside with mid-lvl jumpshots) then he is a shoe-in for All-Star because who can say that they produce 5x5 lines like he can. Outside Lebron can do that and he is a hot commodity as well on the tradefront (remember what D12 wants to play with if he stays in Orlando and his name is one of the them). He is still young and can contiune to learn.