Why was it a big deal with the Heat and not with others?

[PetroNet]

i don't see how what Presti did was impressive.
Big Picture: he drafted Durant with the #2 pick (like anyone else would have)....the team sucked...he drafted westbrook with the #4 pick....oh God, they sucked again and got another top pick...then drafted Harden

Peripheral things: Trade Jeff Green for Perk...get thabo...draft maynor....oh, they did leave bledsoe to us...tsk tsk.

i don't see how sucking and piling top picks is inherently better than signing a great player because you can...inherently better...i get with context and media news it seems better...but it's not inherently better...on its own merit without stupid media context making it seem cool.

this is a great post, and i agree with it. Building through the lottery is more about luck then anything else. in fact, its like 95% luck and 5% scouting. I mean lets take examples from the thunder and the Blazers

- the thunder have a bad record. the ping pong balls got them the #2 pick. had they gotten the #1 pick, they would have taken oden and it would have been a disaster. if they got the 3 or 4 pick they are looking at al horford, who while an allstar isnt a superstar franchise changing player, or mike conley -- who interstingly enough would have likely prevented them from going with westbrook the next season. So not only were the lucky enough to land at the 2 spot instead of actually winning the lottery, but they were also lucky enough that a superstar stud was even available in this draft. as a nets fan i can tell you first hand its no fan having the #1 pick in a draft highlighted by kenyon martin and marcus fizer. its much nicer when tim duncan is the top pick.

-The Blazers have a bad record. they select cant miss stud bigman greg oden. and he busts due to injury. which sucks because they took another stud in the top 5, brandon roy, a great pick, who they also lost to chronic injury. they drafted batum and LMA as well. if oden is a duncan like stud, they are in the finals instead of OKC. if portland gets the # 2 pick, then they would have durant and be a great team as well.

Portland, had they been Lucky is looking at a nucleus of either either:

Felton, Roy,Batum, Durant, LMA

or

Felton, Roy, Batum, LMA, Helathy dominant Oden

OKC, if they are unlucky is looking at something like:

Conley, Harden, Thabo, Green, Ibaka

or

Who knpws, Harden, Thabo, Green, Ibaka and having oden in street clothes.

i can credit OKC management and scouting for having a #2 pick in a draft where a superstar fell into their laps. just like i cant credit orlando for having shaq and penny be there in back to back drafts.

[Trader_Joe]

You picked one example on their drafts.

Many thought RW was a reach and some thought Harden was as well.
Ibaka was a find, PJIII potentially a steal.

Trade-wise moving Green to Perkins paid off. The Harden deal is looking good as well.

[Knicker23]

None of the examples you listed are similar to Lebron james, Dwayne Wade and Bosh on the same team together. Especially in terms of skill, age, prime etc.

An older kobe and Nash playing with Howard hardly looks the same... Nor does an older Ray Allen KG and PP ring the same, even a few years ago...

And certainly not Tyson Chandler & Melo on the same team....

James, is supposed to be the best player in the league.. he shouldn't have to team up with another top 5 guy in his prime along with Bosh.. in order to win.

If Durant was on a team by himself, and somehow got Westbrook, Harding, Ibaka all to sign with him in free agency in OKC, maybe that would be similar.... But that's not how it went down there.

[Goldtop]

He took a shortcut to a championship
Because he couldn't get over the hump

Isn't Dwight doing the same thing? Didn't CP3 do the same thing? Didn't Carmelo do the same thing?

The whole trashing LeBron thing was so stupid. You look back at just about every superstar in history and they needed at least 1 HOF'er around them to win championships. The fact the CLE wasn't able to supply him with any was the reason he went to MIA, because Riley delivered what was necessary to win championships. Its CLE's fault, not LeBron's.

Did you expect him to just stay with CLE his whole career with no talent around him and never win anything? He would've been the NBA's version of Barry Sanders.

[Trader_Joe]

None of the examples you listed are similar to Lebron james, Dwayne Wade and Bosh on the same team together. Especially in terms of skill, age, prime etc.

An older kobe and Nash playing with Howard hardly looks the same... Nor does an older Ray Allen KG and PP ring the same, even a few years ago...

And certainly not Tyson Chandler & Melo on the same team....

James, is supposed to be the best player in the league.. he shouldn't have to team up with another top 5 guy in his prime along with Bosh.. in order to win.

If Durant was on a team by himself, and somehow got Westbrook, Harding, Ibaka all to sign with him in free agency in OKC, maybe that would be similar.... But that's not how it went down there.

He is the best player regardless and he can do what he wants to win... but.. end of day when talking about legacies, LBJ potentially lost his chance to be held in the same regard as MJ by joining forces in Miami. Whether or not that is important to him or his fans, I cannot answer that.

Then again he may never have won any titles on his own. Who knows.

[Trader_Joe]

He took a shortcut to a championship
Because he couldn't get over the hump

Isn't Dwight doing the same thing? Didn't CP3 do the same thing? Didn't Carmelo do the same thing?

The whole trashing LeBron thing was so stupid. You look back at just about superstar in history and they needed at least 1 HOF'er around them to win championships. The fact the CLE wasn't able to supply him with any was the reason he went to MIA, because Riley delivered what was necessary to win championships. Its CLE's fault, not LeBron's.

Did you expect him to just stay with CLE his whole career with no talent around him and never win anything? He would've been the NBA's version of Barry Sanders.

None of your example were free agents that chose to join with other stars. They were all traded, and in Dwight's case not to his preferred team. BTW..what other HOF caliber players in their primes are CP3 and Melo teamed up with?

Also, Cleveland finally had cap space the summer of 2010 to make moves, like get Bosh. It's not fault they couldn't lure talent to their market... well it is because they are in Cleveland, but it's not their fault they aren't in Miami.

[kingmalaki]

LOL, the hypocrisy in this thread is hilarious. So the Boston and LA situations are ok because KG, Howard and Nash were "traded" but the Heat one isn't because they decided to sign as free agents? That's asinine. Sure, KG was "traded" to Boston after he agreed to waive his no-trade clause and get traded there, and only after they got Allen. Nash went to his owner to convince him to "trade" him to LA and took less $$ to go there. After the Nets deal fell through Howard only agreed to be "traded" to LA (of all the teams that were making an offer). So to say those moves are ok because those guys were traded is a technicality and a crock of manure. Those guys decided where they wanted to play, just like LeBron and Bosh. Technically, both of those two were "traded" to Miami.

KG was not a free agent like someone else said, and he did not have a no trade clause like you said.
KG did not want to be traded there originally, but was convinced after they did the Allen deal that Boston was serious about winning.

Boston traded:

Jefferson
#5 pick (J.Green)
Wall Szcerbiak
Ratliff
D.West
G.Green
Telfair
Gomes
Multiple picks

for

KG and Allen

It was a major risk that worked out for them.


Miami didn't exactly take any risks by letting LBJ and Bosh sign with them.. thanks to Wade's recruiting and Miami's market.




And the point of all this is... teams like Miami and LA have shown they can do more with more. OKC and SAS have proven they can do more with less.

Also, put it this way. If I had to hire a GM for a new team that wasn't a top 5 market and had real salary concerns, I wouldn't hire Riley or Kupcheck, I'd look at Presti or Buford first.

I stand corrected on the no trade clause, but whether or not he was a free agent didn't matter. He wasn't going to get traded anywhere that he didn't approve to go and no Boston deal happened until he said "ok". He in essence chose to go there. Again, if you want to get technical LeBron and Bosh were both traded.

Are you arguing that the Celtics took a risk trading for a Garnett that agreed to come there and forming a Big 3? LOL....ok.

[DarkXaero]

Knicks - lol, how is this even relevant? Chandler is far from a star player and knicks didn't make it out of the first round.


Hahahahahahaha like The Nets have been anywhere but the basement. I take Tyson over Brook overrated Lopez any day of the week.

Who is talking about the Nets? He only mentioned the Knicks.

[kingmalaki]

#1) Trade vs. free-agency

LeBron was traded to Miami after he agreed to go there. Howard was traded to LA after he said it was the only place he would go (that was still offering a trade package).

#3) Joined in conference rivals

How was Wade a rival? He and LeBron never met in the postseason. The same goes for Bosh. However, Kobe beat Howard in the Finals. Yet LeBron is the one joining a rival?

#4) Joined prime players, the old guy and young guy team ups don't bother the public

The Celtics were all in their prime when they joined up and no one said anything.

#5) LeBron promised Cleveland a title

And they didn't get him enough help to do it.

[Trader_Joe]

I stand corrected on the no trade clause, but whether or not he was a free agent didn't matter. He wasn't going to get traded anywhere that he didn't approve to go and no Boston deal happened until he said "ok". He in essence chose to go there. Again, if you want to get technical LeBron and Bosh were both traded.

Are you arguing that the Celtics took a risk trading for a Garnett that agreed to come there and forming a Big 3? LOL....ok.

Of course it was a risk.
They gave up essentially every asset they had and formed the first big 3. People didn't know if the ego's would mesh on or off the court and questioned if they had enough depth to make it work. It did.

And Minny was trying to send KG somewhere he wanted to go out of respect. Boston was ready to do the deal.

[Trader_Joe]

#1) Trade vs. free-agency

LeBron was traded to Miami after he agreed to go there. Howard was traded to LA after he said it was the only place he would go (that was still offering a trade package).

#3) Joined in conference rivals

How was Wade a rival? He and LeBron never met in the postseason. The same goes for Bosh. However, Kobe beat Howard in the Finals. Yet LeBron is the one joining a rival?

#4) Joined prime players, the old guy and young guy team ups don't bother the public

The Celtics were all in their prime when they joined up and no one said anything.

#5) LeBron promised Cleveland a title

And they didn't get him enough help to do it.

Howard wanted to go the Nets.. the Nets, Hawks, Mavs and Rockets were all offering packages for him.
And no, KG and Allen were not in their primes.

[Foye]

Because ESPN's NBA coverage revolves around LeBron James and 'The Decision' was something even Forrest Gump wouldn't do

Exactly, this. I could've lived with LeBron teaming up in Miami but this decision crap was really too much.

[PetroNet]

You picked one example on their drafts.

Many thought RW was a reach and some thought Harden was as well.
Ibaka was a find, PJIII potentially a steal.

Trade-wise moving Green to Perkins paid off. The Harden deal is looking good as well.

i picked that one draft because its all that mattered.... without durant, they arent anything special. getting lucky and landing durant is the only reason they are any good.

[Goldtop]

He took a shortcut to a championship
Because he couldn't get over the hump

Isn't Dwight doing the same thing? Didn't CP3 do the same thing? Didn't Carmelo do the same thing?

The whole trashing LeBron thing was so stupid. You look back at just about superstar in history and they needed at least 1 HOF'er around them to win championships. The fact the CLE wasn't able to supply him with any was the reason he went to MIA, because Riley delivered what was necessary to win championships. Its CLE's fault, not LeBron's.

Did you expect him to just stay with CLE his whole career with no talent around him and never win anything? He would've been the NBA's version of Barry Sanders.

None of your example were free agents that chose to join with other stars. They were all traded, and in Dwight's case not to his preferred team. BTW..what other HOF caliber players in their primes are CP3 and Melo teamed up with?

Also, Cleveland finally had cap space the summer of 2010 to make moves, like get Bosh. It's not fault they couldn't lure talent to their market... well it is because they are in Cleveland, but it's not their fault they aren't in Miami.

Dwight didn't choose to go to LA?

I think most consider Griffin to be on course for a HOF career, which was the only reason CP3 chose to go to LAC. And when Carmelo went to NY, it was because Amare was there, who was also on course for a HOF career at the time.

As for CLE, being in a small market does limit their ability to attract talent, but bottom line is they never were able to put the necessary pieces around LeBron. There have been other smaller markets able to do it and win championships. If CLE couldn't do it, whether it was managements fault or location, how can you blame LeBron for not wanting to be stuck there and waste his whole career?

It might not be managments fault, but it certainly wasn't LeBron's fault that they couldn't get talent there. I can't blame him for wanting to win.

[Trader_Joe]

Dwight didn't choose to go to LA?

I think most consider Griffin to be on course for a HOF career, which was the only reason CP3 chose to go to LAC. And when Carmelo went to NY, it was because Amare was there, who was also on course for a HOF career at the time.

As for CLE, being in a small market does limit their ability to attract talent, but bottom line is they never were able to put the necessary pieces around LeBron. There have been other smaller markets able to do it and win championships. If CLE couldn't do it, whether it was managements fault or location, how can you blame LeBron for not wanting to be stuck there and waste his whole career?

It might not be managments fault, but it certainly wasn't LeBron's fault that they couldn't get talent there. I can't blame him for wanting to win.

No, Dwight did not. He was not offered a list of trades and picked it. Orlando could have held on to him, dealt with Houston, Atlanta, etc.

Also I asked what HOF's were in their primes? Griffin is far from it, Amare is closer. But neither compare to 2 HOF players in their primes (Wade, Bosh).

Finally, no I don't fault LBJ for doing what he did and never have.

I'm explaining why people don't like it and my only "knock" on LBJ is again.. it is going to be much tougher for him to be ever reach MJ status by choosing Miami, as opposed to trying to win on his own. Again, I don't know if that matters to him or his fan.. or he would have been able to win on his own, but that it does impact his legacy in that regard.

[Joao Saraiva]

LeBron didn't do it on his own with that statline leading the team in points, rebs and assists. Only Magic and Duncan did the same in order to win a championship.

I guess LeBron is really evaluated on a level that no other guy is. People expected him to 50/10/10 in Cleveland in order to win...

[Quake Griffin]

why are people in this thread lying by pointing out different circumstances?


the fact is LeBron is the best player in the league....and consequently the most hated.

the reality is if in 2010 (before cp3, melo, dwight etc etc) were moved....if LeBron would have behaved in the similar fashion to those guys....you would have hated that just as much.

[kingmalaki]

#1) Trade vs. free-agency

LeBron was traded to Miami after he agreed to go there. Howard was traded to LA after he said it was the only place he would go (that was still offering a trade package).

#3) Joined in conference rivals

How was Wade a rival? He and LeBron never met in the postseason. The same goes for Bosh. However, Kobe beat Howard in the Finals. Yet LeBron is the one joining a rival?

#4) Joined prime players, the old guy and young guy team ups don't bother the public

The Celtics were all in their prime when they joined up and no one said anything.

#5) LeBron promised Cleveland a title

And they didn't get him enough help to do it.

Howard wanted to go the Nets.. the Nets, Hawks, Mavs and Rockets were all offering packages for him.
And no, KG and Allen were not in their primes.

Howard wanted to go to the Nets initially but that deal fell through. The other teams on his list were LA and Dallas. He was blocking trades to any other place. The Mavs didn't offer anything as they hade cap room to sign him the next summer. So yes, he did call the shots on where he went. He chose! The Rockets were the only team willing to call the bluff.

When Boston's big 3 got together KG was 31, Pierce was 30 and Allen was 32. Those are generally considered the prime years for a basketball player (late 20's to early 30's). If KG didn't agree to go to Boston then the Wolves would not have traded him there. After they landed Allen then he ok'd the trade. He chose!

It's no different.

[rockmanslim]

KG put in a decade's worth of work in Minny.

Ray Allen was coming off double ankle surgery and was seen as washed up.

[AQuintus]

- Lakers: so it's wrong for LBJ to join Wade cause they're both MVP candidate caliber players but it's right for Howard to join Kobe? If Bosh is the big difference, then how about a All-Star PF Pau Gasol and a great playmaker like Nash that won 2 MVP awards in the past?

1. Pau Gasol was traded to the Lakers, he didn't collude with Kobe to join the team as a free agent.
2. Pau Gasol was never all that good. He was a 1 time all-star when he joined the Lakers, not the best player in the game and a 2 time MVP like Lebron when he joined the Heat.
3. Unless you have amnesia or just started following basketball, then you'd remember that most fans were incredibly pissed about the Pau Gasol to Lakers trade, it's just that the ire has dimmed substantially since Marc Gasol has ended up being excellent.
4. Steve Nash is almost 39 years old. His MVP days have long since passed.

- Boston: so KG joined Pierce and Allen and it was never a big deal. Why not? Cause they were older? They lasted 4 years... And could even still do it this year. Why didn't anyone complain?

1.Yes, because they're old. They're three hall of fame players at the tail ends of their careers who joined together for a last shot at a ring. They weren't three elite players just entering their primes.
2. Garnett and Allen were traded to Boston. They didn't colluded together with Pierce to join the Celtics as free agents.

- NYK join DPOY with all-star PF and Melo (for some a MVP candidate, I'd say he's a lock for top 10 players in the league). But no one seems to care. Why? Because they played below expectations?

1. Melo was traded to the Knicks.
2. Unless you have amnesia or just started following basketball, then you'd remember there was a huge stink surround Melo joining the Knicks.
3. At no point in their careers were Chandler, Amare, or Carmelo ever at the level that Lebron and Wade are at.
4. Chandler is a great defender, but he's had a ton of injury problems and almost no offensive game. He's a role player, a very good role player, but still a role player nonetheless. Nobody cares where role players go.