NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[King Ken]

I think that for the owners this is more about wanting to be able to project players better. College gives them an environment to scout the players much better. The NCAA is a horrible horrible organization that absolutely takes advantage of the kids.

I'd be very interested in setting up a minor-league system of sorts, but if you do that you have to make all 18 year olds draft eligible like they are in baseball. (Basically, even if a player would like to attend college, the team that drafted them at 18 would still own their draft rights)

I'd like to see the D-league used in a 1-1 team ratio with the NBA as well as having a bit more money for salaries so that those who are playing in it aren't struggling to make ends meet.

Ultimately, the real reason I don't want more 18 year olds in the NBA is because they tend to suck at basketball. Nothing more, nothing less. (Of course, a minor league system where players are still PAID seems far preferable to the current one)

This is the same league that drafted a 19 year old high school Australian Basketball player in the top 5 of the draft just this past year and a division 2 Greek league player in the first round the year before. You have so much access to high school videos, aau teams, select teams, etc today compared to in 2004 where the ABCD camp was maybe the first time you were seeing a prospect. There is no reason to have this age limit anymore outside for the NCAA sake which isn't in the best interest of the players. With the league being so deep nowadays, HS to the NBA is needed more now than it was in 2004. These kids aren't playing right away anyway and can develop in the DL like Gobert and Schroeder did last year.

[StojkoVrankovic]

Holy sweeping generalizations and vague blankets statements Batman

[Ruckusmh]

I really hope that what this leads to isn't simply the NBAPA wanting the age lowered, but having a realistic idea for some kind of a minor league. I think that could be a great thing for players who want some security now as well as for the fans who would get a lot of the same fun of summer league year round. Ideally, it would also benefit guys who are trying to get 10-days and spend the rest of their time in the d-league. Being able to make a decent salary would be great for those guys, and there are a LOT of them.

[thelead]

It's funny, because, for many, race should never, ever be mentioned ... for anything--like ever.

It's so bad these days that just the mere mention of race has been minimized to a poker game--"playing the race card".

Discrimination through various forms of pigeon-holing exists my friends, whether you want to admit it or not. It's very, very real.

And for the record, as a fan of the game who wants the product to be at its best, I'm in favor of the age limit. Hell, I'd want it to be three years out of high school if it were up to me, but, if I were a player, I COMPLETELY understand the notion that an age limit is un-American and freedom wrenching.

Also though, in an age of veterans being undervalued and ushered out of the league at younger and younger ages, why does the NBAPA concern themselves with eighteen year olds? Why don't they focus their efforts more on protecting veterans and their right to play profitably into their thirties in favor of their teenage counterparts?

The more teenagers are allowed to enter this league, the less jobs will be available for seasoned veterans.

Honestly, if I've learned anything from the Internet over the years, it's if you want to see white people completely lose their ****, just mention race. That's it. Do that and they will coming running from all directions in a frothing, ultra-defensive mass of hysteria. I'm not even quite sure how or why it happens but it never ceases to amaze me.

Damn, very well said.

Many white people are sooooo afraid to speak about race out in the open that when they finally get "forums" to express themselves, they, often wildly, share their opinions in a manner that lends itself to a pipe bursting after years of over pressurization.

Funny because it's true.

[Damon_3388]

Forget the NBA how about the NFL, where an athlete have to spend 4 years in some NCAA penitentiary before they can earn money for their services. The difference is that the NFL does not have any competition, apart from semi-pro leagues like Arena and the CFL, these football athletes have no other sporting options that can make them earn a good living.

The fact that you're equating going to college to being imprisoned shows what is wrong with the mindset of a lot of these young guys in the first place.

I'm in favor of an age limit, but you CLEARLY don't get it. It's this type of stubborn, finite understanding that encourages and oftentimes promotes a communication divide. It's too bad.

Explain to me what I supposedly "don't get" then.

[Ruckusmh]

I think that for the owners this is more about wanting to be able to project players better. College gives them an environment to scout the players much better. The NCAA is a horrible horrible organization that absolutely takes advantage of the kids.

I'd be very interested in setting up a minor-league system of sorts, but if you do that you have to make all 18 year olds draft eligible like they are in baseball. (Basically, even if a player would like to attend college, the team that drafted them at 18 would still own their draft rights)

I'd like to see the D-league used in a 1-1 team ratio with the NBA as well as having a bit more money for salaries so that those who are playing in it aren't struggling to make ends meet.

Ultimately, the real reason I don't want more 18 year olds in the NBA is because they tend to suck at basketball. Nothing more, nothing less. (Of course, a minor league system where players are still PAID seems far preferable to the current one)

This is the same league that drafted a 19 year old high school Australian Basketball player in the top 5 of the draft just this past year and a division 2 Greek league player in the first round the year before. You have so much access to high school videos, aau teams, select teams, etc today compared to in 2004 where the ABCD camp was maybe the first time you were seeing a prospect. There is no reason to have this age limit anymore outside for the NCAA sake which isn't in the best interest of the players. With the league being so deep nowadays, HS to the NBA is needed more now than it was in 2004. These kids aren't playing right away anyway and can develop in the DL like Gobert and Schroeder did last year.

I agree with this to some extent - I think some of the really really terrible highschool busts of the 00's limited enthusiasm about high school kids a little bit, but I totally agree that teams still reach for upside.

A more fleshed out d-league moving towards something like an actual minor league seems like a good solution to me.

[King Ken]

You clearly need a history lesson if you think blacks are the only group that has experienced "racism"

It's clear we aren't. That's unquestionable. What's clear is, anytime racism effects Black people and it's economics, other non-Blacks always side with white people. That's noted and documented. Therefore, shut the hell up on the racism Blacks go through. As I mentioned, if we are talking immigration and someone says something off the wall, Hispanics even if they aren't mentioned by name will be the first to call you out and call you racist and true be told is usually correct. But let it be Black folks, ya'll be siding with White folks like some suckers. Part of the reason, I refuse to be called a minority. Call us Black, Africans, etc but don't call us minorities. Pay us as Black/African/Melanoid because the minute it's something bad, all Black folks are black but when it's time to give money to Blacks, you give it to minorities which is every damn body and Blacks get the scraps.

Listen, I get it but not everything is a Black vs the world issue.

Anytime someone mentions this, I throw up in the mouth. It's the world's biggest deflection comment. It's only brought up with Black issues and generally it's really a white supremacist comment. This is up there with the, why is there BET or my favorite, who is the white or Asian Al Sharpton? Like really? Really?

[ALL HAIL]

The fact that you're equating going to college to being imprisoned shows what is wrong with the mindset of a lot of these young guys in the first place.

I'm in favor of an age limit, but you CLEARLY don't get it. It's this type of stubborn, finite understanding that encourages and oftentimes promotes a communication divide. It's too bad.

Explain to me what I supposedly "don't get" then.

I'll try. Hopefully your brain is not too linear to understand.

When a person who has no desire to be in a place is "forced" to be there, metaphorically speaking, it is reasonable to call that place a prison.

Understand?

[thelead]

It's clear we aren't. That's unquestionable. What's clear is, anytime racism effects Black people and it's economics, other non-Blacks always side with white people. That's noted and documented. Therefore, shut the hell up on the racism Blacks go through. As I mentioned, if we are talking immigration and someone says something off the wall, Hispanics even if they aren't mentioned by name will be the first to call you out and call you racist and true be told is usually correct. But let it be Black folks, ya'll be siding with White folks like some suckers. Part of the reason, I refuse to be called a minority. Call us Black, Africans, etc but don't call us minorities. Pay us as Black/African/Melanoid because the minute it's something bad, all Black folks are black but when it's time to give money to Blacks, you give it to minorities which is every damn body and Blacks get the scraps.

Listen, I get it but not everything is a Black vs the world issue.

Anytime someone mentions this, I throw up in the mouth. It's the world's biggest deflection comment. It's only brought up with Black issues and generally it's really a white supremacist comment. This is up there with the, why is there BET or my favorite, who is the white or Asian Al Sharpton? Like really? Really?

And this is why whites can't have conversations with blacks about racism (I'm neither). If you can't talk about it straight up without ****, we won't get anywhere.

[DemonLizard]

Why do people always have to pull out the race card? not everyone is racist, or showing favortism towards a certain race. smh.

[WOX_69]

This thread turned out just I expected it too. Bravo, RealGM, bravo. Proving once again, the amount of people that know how to have a constructive conversation about race is rapidly approaching nil.

[ALL HAIL]

Listen, I get it but not everything is a Black vs the world issue.

Anytime someone mentions this, I throw up in the mouth. It's the world's biggest deflection comment. It's only brought up with Black issues and generally it's really a white supremacist comment. This is up there with the, why is there BET or my favorite, who is the white or Asian Al Sharpton? Like really? Really?

And this is why whites can't have conversations with blacks about racism (I'm neither). If you can't talk about it straight up without ****, we won't get anywhere.

If I've learned anything from my ten year marriage it's that communication requires patience. I feel what Ken was expressing. You call it BS. I think it's rather insightful.

Trust me, if you were to ask him what he thinks is BS in this thread, he'd tell you there's quite a bit of it. But it hasn't stopped him fom communicating and teaching those that don't understand.

That's a big part of the humility that I mentioned earlier. It takes patience to learn something new, from a new perspective ... no BS.

[King Ken]

Listen, I get it but not everything is a Black vs the world issue.

Anytime someone mentions this, I throw up in the mouth. It's the world's biggest deflection comment. It's only brought up with Black issues and generally it's really a white supremacist comment. This is up there with the, why is there BET or my favorite, who is the white or Asian Al Sharpton? Like really? Really?

And this is why whites can't have conversations with blacks about racism (I'm neither). If you can't talk about it straight up without ****, we won't get anywhere.

No one is telling you to shut the hell up just because you aren't the topic of conversation. We are telling you to shut the hell up because you are using white supremacist diatribe and you don't know what the hell you are talking about. That's like me coming into a convo about the Argentine Liga or the Karate Championship and they are talking about daily issues of prejudice that they deal with on a regular basis not just as soccer players or karate guys but as ppl and businessmen. Then me coming in saying foolishness and talking like an idiot almost sounding like the same people you guys are complaining about and you want me to go away because I don't know what the hell I am talking about. Saying stuff, like "I love when you get in a stance like Bruce Lee and say 'Wa Taaaa', that's awesome man!." Then is your opinion useful to the topic at hand? No. Here's what we need, we need action. Having topic about racism was the 90's, Sista Soulja and em. Today, we need action and we need to address and solve issues. That talk has proven to be a sham and will always be a sham because simply put, white ppl have no reason to listen, you know that as well. It's all about action. It's that simple. People cry about the n word but the n word was so deadly in the early to mid 1900's because it ended up with you getting your ass beat by a mob. It wasn't the n word as much as it was the action behind it. Not saying to go around and say it but people need to realize, words don't mean ish. It's actions.

[DavidSterned]

Of course you will get the standard ignorant white guy response that it has nothing to do with race. When you're white, it's a lot easier to not see race. But this is clearly a racist policy- one that disproportionately affects black athletes and lines the NCAA's pockets.

Yeah, who wants a free education?

Not Kobe. Not Lebron. Not Kevin Garnett. Not a lot of young players. You are denying them the right to earn fair market value for their skills instead forcing them to work for fraction of their value while the NCAA and the Universities line up their pockets with money earned on the backs of the athletes.

You don't tell prodigies, gifted young entertainers in other fields, talented entrepreneurs - instead of earning millions, go to work for free for a University for a few years, earn them millions but you'll get a free education that is a fraction of what you could earn.

And race has everything to do with it. If the majority of NBA players were white - people would not be making the argument that the players weren't "mature" enough and needed an educational foundation to fall back on. It's only because the majority are black athletes that the argument that the kids are irresponsible and immature is sold.

1. Every profession requires a certain level of experience before you can earn "market value" for your talents. That is precisely how market value is assigned, based on your acumen and level of experience in the field. That often comes with age, hence the policy most businesses have of requiring a certain experience level for entry level positions. The NBA is no different. They find it is the best way to minimize risk for new job entrants who are to be playing at the highest level of the profession.

2. No one is forcing these players to forgo salaries at the age of 18-19. College is not required. They can play professionally in some U.S. leagues or even make way more money overseas in some cases than they would with rookie NBA salaries, and they can even market themselves (if they're good/savvy enough) and have other opportunities to show off their talents. The age limit is as simple as saying "Hey, you need at least a year of basketball experience after high school to get into our business". That's very straightforward and par for the course for businesses. I certainly don't recall most of my friends, black or white, shooting to the top of their profession right out of high school, regardless of how smart or talented they were.

3. If you want to assume the worst in people when discussing "maturity", then nobody's stopping you, but jumping to conclusions without evidence is silly for a host of reasons. If you also want to overlook the fact that it impacts non blacks in exactly the same way, all for the sake of stretching some point about race, then I think you're going to find a lot of people rolling their eyes at your argument. I find no difference in whether or not black or white players are rated as "mature" coming out of high school. Maturity often speaks more to the physical side of the game than the mental side of it. How does physical maturity have any bearing on race in this case? Quite simply, the vast majority of 18-19 year olds aren't yet at a high enough level physically, emotionally, or ability-wise to be successful at that point in the NBA. As such, the NBA wants to minimize its risk in accepting entry level candidates. Using rarefied examples like Lebron or Kobe doesn't really help your case IMO.

[thelead]

Anytime someone mentions this, I throw up in the mouth. It's the world's biggest deflection comment. It's only brought up with Black issues and generally it's really a white supremacist comment. This is up there with the, why is there BET or my favorite, who is the white or Asian Al Sharpton? Like really? Really?

And this is why whites can't have conversations with blacks about racism (I'm neither). If you can't talk about it straight up without ****, we won't get anywhere.

If I've learned anything fom my ten year marriage it's that communication requires patience. I feel what Ken was expressing. You call it BS. I think it's rather insightful.

Trust me, if you were to ask him what he thinks is BS in this thread, he'd tell you there's quite a bit of it. But it hasn't stopped him fom communicating and teaching this that don't understand.

That's a big part of the humility that I mentioned earlier. It takes patience to learn something new, for a new perspective ... No BS.

Here's the thing, almost everything requires a certain amount of tact. Ken's passion about the issue is coming off in a very aggressive tone that is difficult to cut through.

I guess if you're fighting this battle often it can lead to this but one needs to be aware of it.

[DemonLizard]

Of course you will get the standard ignorant white guy response that it has nothing to do with race. When you're white, it's a lot easier to not see race. But this is clearly a racist policy- one that disproportionately affects black athletes and lines the NCAA's pockets.

And that's what we expect from someone who's going to be calling racism anytime something goes wrong in his life.

[Liver_Pooty]

Of course you will get the standard ignorant white guy response that it has nothing to do with race. When you're white, it's a lot easier to not see race. But this is clearly a racist policy- one that disproportionately affects black athletes and lines the NCAA's pockets.

Forget the NBA how about the NFL, where an athlete have to spend 4 years in some NCAA penitentiary before they can earn money for their services. The difference is that the NFL does not have any competition, apart from semi-pro leagues like Arena and the CFL, these football athletes have no other sporting options that can make them earn a good living.

Comparing the NBA to the NFL is stupid. I wish s linebacker would declare for the NFL draft right out of highschool. He'd get his ribs thrown to another continent. Poor analogy.

[thelead]

Anytime someone mentions this, I throw up in the mouth. It's the world's biggest deflection comment. It's only brought up with Black issues and generally it's really a white supremacist comment. This is up there with the, why is there BET or my favorite, who is the white or Asian Al Sharpton? Like really? Really?

And this is why whites can't have conversations with blacks about racism (I'm neither). If you can't talk about it straight up without ****, we won't get anywhere.

No one is telling you to shut the hell up just because you aren't the topic of conversation. We are telling you to shut the hell up because you are using white supremacist diatribe and you don't know what the hell you are talking about. That's like me coming into a convo about the Argentine Liga or the Karate Championship and they are talking about daily issues of prejudice that they deal with on a regular basis not just as soccer players or karate guys but as ppl and businessmen. Then me coming in saying foolishness and talking like an idiot almost sounding like the same people you guys are complaining about and you want me to go away because I don't know what the hell I am talking about. Saying stuff, like "I love would you get in a stance like Bruce Lee and say 'Wa Taaaa', that's awesome man!." Then is your opinion useful to the topic at hand? No. Here's what we need, we need action. Having topic about racism was the 90's and Sista Soulja and em. Today, we need action and we need to address and solve issues. That talk has proven to be a sham and will always be a sham because simply put, white ppl have no reason to listen, you know that as well. It's all about action. It's that simple. People cry about the n word but the n word was so deadly in the early to mid 1900's because it ended up with you getting your ass beat by a mob. It wasn't the n word as much as it was the action behind it. Not saying to go around and say it but people need to realize, words don't mean ish. It's actions.

I'm with you 100% there but we need to be able to lay it ALL out on the table if we're going to make a change. I've mentored kids in the inner city (mostly African-American, Haitian, and Hispanic). You know what one of the first things I did? Laid out the truth for the parents. I'm all about educating those in the inner city to empower themselves.

We're going way off topic now but I agree with you on needing action.

[thelead]

Of course you will get the standard ignorant white guy response that it has nothing to do with race. When you're white, it's a lot easier to not see race. But this is clearly a racist policy- one that disproportionately affects black athletes and lines the NCAA's pockets.

Forget the NBA how about the NFL, where an athlete have to spend 4 years in some NCAA penitentiary before they can earn money for their services. The difference is that the NFL does not have any competition, apart from semi-pro leagues like Arena and the CFL, these football athletes have no other sporting options that can make them earn a good living.

Comparing the NBA to the NFL is stupid. I wish s linebacker would declare for the NFL draft right out of highschool. He'd get his ribs thrown to another continent. Poor analogy.

But why do you care? Shouldn't they be able to make that choice for themselves? Let the kids get their money if they want it, right? Isn't it virtually the same argument?

[Damon_3388]

I'll try. Hopefully your brain is not too linear to understand.

Holy lol.

When a person who has no desire to be in a place is "forced" to be there, metaphorically speaking, it is reasonable to call that place a prison.

Understand?

They can always choose to not go to college, too.

I just find it a bit rich that underprivileged people who feel like they're being treated like commodities, or only valued for their physical/athletic traits, being provided with the opportunity of a college education, and to develop some interests/qualifications outside of their sporting ability, treat it like it's some sort of punishment.

Nobody is going to value you for your intelligence and or as a person beyond being "just an athlete" if you see developing your mind and expanding your abilities/skills/knowledge as some sort of imposed burden.