Tatum the next Kobe?

[lakerz12]

He is not the athlete Kobe was but he is also not the ballhog Kobe was.

Top 3 in assists all time for a SG and #30 overall in all time assists = ballhog?

Also, Tatum averaged 1.6 assists haha

Assist has nothing to do with whether you're a ball hog or not - Allen Iverson averaged more assist than Kobe Bryant did, does that mean Allen Iverson wasn't a ball hog?

By definition, assists have to do with whether you're a ball hog or not.

A ballhog is "a player who handles the ball exclusively to the point of impairing the team" or "someone who doesn't pass the ball".

Assists are proof that they do pass the ball. And of course there are many more times when they pass the ball without it resulting in an assist.

Allen Iverson wasn't a ball hog. If he or Kobe were ballhogs they would be confronted by their teammates and coaches, not given 36+ MPG.

I think Kobe's results speak for themselves. Would you rather he shoot less and not win 5 championships?

[bizil]

For me, this isn't about if Tatum will be a great player. I think the kid will be a multiple time All Star and all that. I just don't think his playing style is very similar to Kobe. As of now, they look like two totally different players. But when people compare Ben Simmons to Magic, I see that comparison. And I see the Donovan Mitchell comparisons to D Wade. I just see Tatum more in the vein of a Pierce right now.

[HeartBreakKid]

Top 3 in assists all time for a SG and #30 overall in all time assists = ballhog?

Also, Tatum averaged 1.6 assists haha

Assist has nothing to do with whether you're a ball hog or not - Allen Iverson averaged more assist than Kobe Bryant did, does that mean Allen Iverson wasn't a ball hog?

By definition, assists have to do with whether you're a ball hog or not.

A ballhog is "a player who handles the ball exclusively to the point of impairing the team" or "someone who doesn't pass the ball".

Assists are proof that they do pass the ball. And of course there are many more times when they pass the ball without it resulting in an assist.

Allen Iverson wasn't a ball hog. If he or Kobe were ballhogs they would be confronted by their teammates and coaches, not given 36+ MPG.

I think Kobe's results speak for themselves. Would you rather he shoot less and not win 5 championships?

An assist is when someone passes a ball to a player and they score a basket within 2 or 3 dribbles, that's literally all an assist is.

It doesn't tell you how much the person who got the assist handled the ball prior to the assist...so no, assist literally do not measure ball hogging in anyway. DeAndre Jordan and Anthony Davis aren't ball hogs, yet they have low APG - I have faith you can piece these things together. You also pointed out that a player can pass the ball and not rack up assist, which would support my argument that APG doesn't tell whether you are a ball hog or not.

A player who plays 40+ minutes and has the ball the vast majority of those minutes are going to rack up assist, it doesn't infer that the ball doesn't stick to them. It's literally impossible to tell if someone holds on to the ball too long just by looking at APG, like, that is objectively true.

And if you never heard of people saying that Iverson and Bryant weren't ball hogs, I don't know what to tell you.

Your last sentence is a strawman argument, and if anything concedes that you think Kobe Bryant probably was a ball hog.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Since he plays for the Celtics, he could be called "The Green Mamba"

Black Irish Mamba

[lakerz12]

Assist has nothing to do with whether you're a ball hog or not - Allen Iverson averaged more assist than Kobe Bryant did, does that mean Allen Iverson wasn't a ball hog?

By definition, assists have to do with whether you're a ball hog or not.

A ballhog is "a player who handles the ball exclusively to the point of impairing the team" or "someone who doesn't pass the ball".

Assists are proof that they do pass the ball. And of course there are many more times when they pass the ball without it resulting in an assist.

Allen Iverson wasn't a ball hog. If he or Kobe were ballhogs they would be confronted by their teammates and coaches, not given 36+ MPG.

I think Kobe's results speak for themselves. Would you rather he shoot less and not win 5 championships?

An assist is when someone passes a ball to a player and they score a basket within 2 or 3 dribbles, that's literally all an assist is.

It doesn't tell you how much the person who got the assist handled the ball prior to the assist...so no, assist literally do not measure ball hogging in anyway. DeAndre Jordan and Anthony Davis aren't ball hogs, yet they have low APG - I have faith you can piece these things together.

A player who plays 40+ minutes and has the ball the vast majority of those minutes are going to rack up assist, it doesn't infer that the ball doesn't stick to them.

And if you never heard of people saying that Iverson and Bryant weren't ball hogs, I don't know what to tell you.

Your last sentence is a strawman argument, and if anything concedes that you think Kobe Bryant probably was a ball hog.

You're wrong, sorry.

"An assist is a pass that directly leads to a basket. This can be a pass to the low post that leads to a direct score, a long pass for a layup, a fast break pass to a teammate for a layup, and/or a pass that results in an open perimeter shot for a teammate. In basketball, an assist is awarded only if, in the judgement of the statistician, the last player's pass contributed directly to a made basket." http://www.nba.com/canada/Basketball_U_on_Assists-Canada_Generic_Article-18072.html

If a guy takes "2 or 3 dribbles" and the pass was not directly responsible for the basket, it's not an assist.

And again, since the definition of a ballhog is someone who doesn't pass, by definition assists would be impossible for a ballhog.

You're obviously using a different definition of ballhog.

I know some ignorant fans call Iverson and Bryant ballhogs. That doesn't make it true. They are clearly exaggerating and have a bias against those players.

Again, unless you change the definition, it's not possible for a guy to pass the ball profusely and average 4.7+ assists and simultaneously be a ballhog.

[TheDoors24]

I kinda find it hilarious, and not that surprising that Tatum already has as TS and efg better then Kobe ever.

I think Tatum will probably end up being a better offensive player given his role expands, and that he already has some semblance of efficiency without getting preferential treatment from the refs. Defensively its kinda hard to compare since the celtics play really great team defense.

I’m always so amazed at stuff like this. Taking context completely out of it. Tatum was a rookie and defenses were not double and triple teaming him like Kobe most of his career. Let’s see Tatum be the man and hold the numbers for a long period like Kobe and other stars.

Reminds me when people were saying manu was better than Kobe cause Duncan and Parker we’re injure and he was putting up big numbers as a starter.

Then he hit a massive wall and he said cause he was tired and it was hard to sustain that effort.

Yeah. Context.

As the lone star, Kobe wasn't too successful either. He didn't even make the playoffs. People here are very uneducated.

True. Good good points.

That bum did miss the playoffs with his all star cast of Odom, Smush, Mihn and the rest.

Nothing like Curry, Draymond, Thompson, Durant, and all those other stars that dragged teams to the playoffs in the west. Oh wait.

As soon as you added Gasol in the team as help then Kobe took the team to the Finals 3 years in a row.

But hey Tatums numbers are better so i'm sure you replace Tatum with Kobe on those Lakers teams and he 3 peats!!! screw context.

[FlatearthZorro]

I’m always so amazed at stuff like this. Taking context completely out of it. Tatum was a rookie and defenses were not double and triple teaming him like Kobe most of his career. Let’s see Tatum be the man and hold the numbers for a long period like Kobe and other stars.

Reminds me when people were saying manu was better than Kobe cause Duncan and Parker we’re injure and he was putting up big numbers as a starter.

Then he hit a massive wall and he said cause he was tired and it was hard to sustain that effort.

Yeah. Context.

As the lone star, Kobe wasn't too successful either. He didn't even make the playoffs. People here are very uneducated.

True. Good good points.

That bum did miss the playoffs with his all star cast of Odom, Smush, Mihn and the rest.

Nothing like Curry, Draymond, Thompson, Durant, and all those other stars that dragged teams to the playoffs in the west. Oh wait.

As soon as you added Gasol in the team as help then Kobe took the team to the Finals 3 years in a row.

But hey Tatums numbers are better so i'm sure you replace Tatum with Kobe on those Lakers teams and he 3 peats!!! screw context.

Don't get me started, pls. Nobody said Tatum was or wasn't going to be as good as Kobe. Obviously. Time will tell if he can something special or not, so far it seems so. To win more than like 2 titles you need as much skill as luck and health. Can't wait for the future tho.

[JonFromVA]

Watch on YouTube

Gotta admit, there's a lot of similarities. Bryant also took a few years of continuous dedication and hard work before he evolved into a superstar. Both liked to step up in big moments at a young age.

Can Tatum develop into a player similar in impact to Kobe? Or is that setting the ceiling too high?

Sure, and Cedi Osman is going to be the next LeBron.... (I can link the video if you want "proof")

btw, what happened to Tatum becoming the next Pierce?

[TheDoors24]

As the lone star, Kobe wasn't too successful either. He didn't even make the playoffs. People here are very uneducated.

True. Good good points.

That bum did miss the playoffs with his all star cast of Odom, Smush, Mihn and the rest.

Nothing like Curry, Draymond, Thompson, Durant, and all those other stars that dragged teams to the playoffs in the west. Oh wait.

As soon as you added Gasol in the team as help then Kobe took the team to the Finals 3 years in a row.

But hey Tatums numbers are better so i'm sure you replace Tatum with Kobe on those Lakers teams and he 3 peats!!! screw context.

Don't get me started, pls. Nobody said Tatum was or wasn't going to be as good as Kobe. Obviously. Time will tell if he can something special or not, so far it seems so. To win more than like 2 titles you need as much skill as luck and health. Can't wait for the future tho.

I don't know. Some of that "Tatum is already a better player than Kobe" comments have been tossed in this thread.

But as a Lakers fan it pains me to say that i feel Tatum will be a very good to great player.

[nuposse04]

By definition, assists have to do with whether you're a ball hog or not.

A ballhog is "a player who handles the ball exclusively to the point of impairing the team" or "someone who doesn't pass the ball".

Assists are proof that they do pass the ball. And of course there are many more times when they pass the ball without it resulting in an assist.

Allen Iverson wasn't a ball hog. If he or Kobe were ballhogs they would be confronted by their teammates and coaches, not given 36+ MPG.

I think Kobe's results speak for themselves. Would you rather he shoot less and not win 5 championships?

An assist is when someone passes a ball to a player and they score a basket within 2 or 3 dribbles, that's literally all an assist is.

It doesn't tell you how much the person who got the assist handled the ball prior to the assist...so no, assist literally do not measure ball hogging in anyway. DeAndre Jordan and Anthony Davis aren't ball hogs, yet they have low APG - I have faith you can piece these things together.

A player who plays 40+ minutes and has the ball the vast majority of those minutes are going to rack up assist, it doesn't infer that the ball doesn't stick to them.

And if you never heard of people saying that Iverson and Bryant weren't ball hogs, I don't know what to tell you.

Your last sentence is a strawman argument, and if anything concedes that you think Kobe Bryant probably was a ball hog.

You're wrong, sorry.

"An assist is a pass that directly leads to a basket. This can be a pass to the low post that leads to a direct score, a long pass for a layup, a fast break pass to a teammate for a layup, and/or a pass that results in an open perimeter shot for a teammate. In basketball, an assist is awarded only if, in the judgement of the statistician, the last player's pass contributed directly to a made basket." http://www.nba.com/canada/Basketball_U_on_Assists-Canada_Generic_Article-18072.html

If a guy takes "2 or 3 dribbles" and the pass was not directly responsible for the basket, it's not an assist.

And again, since the definition of a ballhog is someone who doesn't pass, by definition assists would be impossible for a ballhog.

You're obviously using a different definition of ballhog.

I know some ignorant fans call Iverson and Bryant ballhogs. That doesn't make it true. They are clearly exaggerating and have a bias against those players.

Again, unless you change the definition, it's not possible for a guy to pass the ball profusely and average 4.7+ assists and simultaneously be a ballhog.

You should probably compare their usage % and assist% ratio to see how much they actually assisted other guys. How long one holds a ball also determines if one is a "ball hog". Now whether or not they were actually good at creating for others depends on their TOV%. Its kinda hard to compare both of em in this area though, they play radically different. Tatum has a lot of quick purposeful motions and passes out when he has a low percentage shot. Kobe took the imperative himself. Tatum also plays in a completely different era of basketball. Ball dominant slightly above average scorers don't thrive in this era. We also don't know if Tatum would have been ISO'ing with the same level of efficiency and frequency as Kobe did when he was young.

Lastly, Tatum, although playing a really good, probably going to be great when healthy next year team... probably won't ever play with anyone as dominant as Shaq. I'd be surprised if someone that good fell into BOS's lap.