The officiating problem encapsulated

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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#121 » by alessandrux » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:11 pm

dacrusha wrote:
xfactor wrote:
Dupp wrote:Any video or clips of the lakers with hands behind back?


Read on Twitter


This is remarkable. I'm sure Harden will still get fouls. Next step, Tie the hands behind back then dawn a straight jacket before checking in. Better yet, just don't check in the game at all. :lol:


James has always been the darling of officials and gets tons of calls going his way each and every game.

For him to do this speaks of massive hypocrisy.


Yes, for me it is very hard to sympathize with Lebron (on this matter).
He is the greatest (at least of this generation), but not only the greatest basketball player but also the biggest hypocrite.

Very tough to decide between the flopping Harden and the self-righteous Lebron.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#122 » by RamonSessions7 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:53 pm

The Laker Kid wrote:
r0drig0lac wrote:
sogood wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25530583/lebron-james-los-angeles-lakers-frustrated-calls-houston-rockets




video?




I'm starting to like Harden now. Anyone who perfects their own craft and continually works on it deserves respect. He had perfected this art and is changing the game.

While I agree that if the refs/league are going to keep giving it to him, he should take it and milk it for what it's worth, I would not call this art. And also disprove of the way this "changes the game" as it encourages players to dive/pretend/focus their offense on drawing whistles and not playing basketball in a way that I find enjoyable to watch.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#123 » by Edrees » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:39 pm

og15 wrote:
Edrees wrote:
dynamic duo wrote:
to be fair, if you put harden on that 73-9 warriors team in 2016 durant wouldn't have his plastic rings either and harden would be the "champion".


To be fair, if you sent durant to the line whenever someone breathed on him like Harden, he would have won 2 titles in OKC
I don't think Durant was ever 1-2 FTA more per game from winning any title, let alone two :lol:. He was also one of the main abusers of the rip through move to get FTA's when it used to be considered a shooting foul, and he was cited in that rule change. Of course all these newer guys probably picked it up from Wade and before that Kobe who used to spam that before them.


FTA is not the point. If guys are so scared of defending you because refs will call being near you a foul, they won't defend you as tough and it will result in more open layups and better field goal percentage. Durant would score 15 more PPG if they ref'd him like Harden.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#124 » by Golden Knight » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:42 pm

dacrusha wrote:
xfactor wrote:
Dupp wrote:Any video or clips of the lakers with hands behind back?


Read on Twitter


This is remarkable. I'm sure Harden will still get fouls. Next step, Tie the hands behind back then dawn a straight jacket before checking in. Better yet, just don't check in the game at all. :lol:


James has always been the darling of officials and gets tons of calls going his way each and every game.

For him to do this speaks of massive hypocrisy.

Yeah Lebron probably benefited from calls more than most NBA players but still it's not a good image for the league if the face of the NBA is playing defense like that because of the officiating. This is probably the first time NBA officiating made news outside sports media. All it took was Lebron going to the West. The league will most likely do something about it.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#125 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:45 pm

Edrees wrote:
og15 wrote:
Edrees wrote:
To be fair, if you sent durant to the line whenever someone breathed on him like Harden, he would have won 2 titles in OKC
I don't think Durant was ever 1-2 FTA more per game from winning any title, let alone two :lol:. He was also one of the main abusers of the rip through move to get FTA's when it used to be considered a shooting foul, and he was cited in that rule change. Of course all these newer guys probably picked it up from Wade and before that Kobe who used to spam that before them.


FTA is not the point. If guys are so scared of defending you because refs will call being near you a foul, they won't defend you as tough and it will result in more open layups and better field goal percentage. Durant would score 15 more PPG if they ref'd him like Harden.


KD can't create illegal contact like Harden does. He can't move that quickly, can't change directions, doesn't have the handles, etc.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#126 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:46 pm

Golden Knight wrote:
dacrusha wrote:
xfactor wrote:
Read on Twitter


This is remarkable. I'm sure Harden will still get fouls. Next step, Tie the hands behind back then dawn a straight jacket before checking in. Better yet, just don't check in the game at all. :lol:


James has always been the darling of officials and gets tons of calls going his way each and every game.

For him to do this speaks of massive hypocrisy.

Yeah Lebron probably benefited from calls more than most NBA players but still it's not a good image for the league if the face of the NBA is playing defense like that because of the officiating. This is probably the first time NBA officiating made news outside sports media. All it took was Lebron going to the West. The league will most likely do something about it.


They can address flops, 100%. The rest of it however....I'm not sure how you stop Harden from getting fouled. Short of not calling fouls when people defense harden you can't change the rules.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#127 » by Golden Knight » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:06 am

dhsilv2 wrote:They can address flops, 100%. The rest of it however....I'm not sure how you stop Harden from getting fouled. Short of not calling fouls when people defense harden you can't change the rules.

Then why do we have these so called "playoff fouls"?
Why do we have these "superstar calls", "rookie calls"?
Why do the refs rarely call a foul during the last play of a close game?
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#128 » by bon » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:15 am

"Don't hate the player, hate the game"
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#129 » by chrismikayla » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:43 am

dynamic duo wrote:metta has the answer.

Image


When I look at that now Harden was sneakily trying to annoy him by getting in his space. He did the same thing with Ingram which is why Ingram shoved him. I hope to goodness Harden nor CP3 ever win a ring. They don't need to be rewarded for their shenanigans.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#130 » by INKtastic » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:54 am

I really can't stand watching James Harden because so much of his game is based around manufacturing foul calls.

Last night a defender was fighting around a screen, Harden intentionally stopped in the defender's path (in what would have been blocking had he stopped like that on defense) to shoot and got 3 foul shots for it. The defender was doing what he was supposed to, harden wasn't even trying to get a good shot, he was just manufacturing foul shots.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#131 » by dhsilv2 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:00 am

Golden Knight wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:They can address flops, 100%. The rest of it however....I'm not sure how you stop Harden from getting fouled. Short of not calling fouls when people defense harden you can't change the rules.

Then why do we have these so called "playoff fouls"?
Why do we have these "superstar calls", "rookie calls"?
Why do the refs rarely call a foul during the last play of a close game?


I mean we could do away with all that and let the players play, they'd still be a foul by rules, and you're see the league scoring go down massively.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#132 » by og15 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:09 am

Edrees wrote:
og15 wrote:
Edrees wrote:
To be fair, if you sent durant to the line whenever someone breathed on him like Harden, he would have won 2 titles in OKC
I don't think Durant was ever 1-2 FTA more per game from winning any title, let alone two :lol:. He was also one of the main abusers of the rip through move to get FTA's when it used to be considered a shooting foul, and he was cited in that rule change. Of course all these newer guys probably picked it up from Wade and before that Kobe who used to spam that before them.


FTA is not the point. If guys are so scared of defending you because refs will call being near you a foul, they won't defend you as tough and it will result in more open layups and better field goal percentage. Durant would score 15 more PPG if they ref'd him like Harden.
Nah, that's not true, and certainly not what happens in the playoffs, come on, the hyperbole is WAY too much here.
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James Harden has 169 more FTM than FGM in his career 

Post#133 » by Sgt Major » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:15 am

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In my opinion, this ends all the discussions about 90's/early 2000s and now. This is unreal.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#134 » by og15 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:18 am

Found this:
https://youtu.be/YZ0XRTOOOx0

I expected worse actually, just a lot of landing space fouls, not fouls due to acting really. In replays you can see the fouls. Kuzma extends a knee in one, Lonzo illegally moves his body into Harden's path in transition, not a hard foul, but a foul. Chandler's arms are leaning forward, ref even indicates it. The first foul though, Harden initiates the contact, I didn't examine it that thoroughly, so if you see something else, cool. There was one on Kuzma (or Lance for a reach in) at 1:45 ish where there was no replay and the angle isn't the best, so I can't judge the call, probably some sort of body foul. Then two were technicals.

Okay, looked at that first one again, looks like Harden beat him to the spot and Kuzma came in late, so yea, that's a foul.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#135 » by gabri3l3 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:32 pm

All the free throws haters need to funnel all their hate towards defenders reaching and FOULING him. Harden is doing what works for him and his team even if to some people that's not a fun way to play basketball. He doesn't play to please you. Me personally I would sign any day to see a master of his craft like Harden fool opponents into fouling him because it shows again his craftiness, body control, feel for the game and IQ.
He gets his fair share of superstar whistles too but that's what every superstars gets so you either deal with it or just stop watching the NBA; he's just better than other guys at drawing the contacts
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#136 » by dhsilv2 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:46 pm

og15 wrote:Found this:
https://youtu.be/YZ0XRTOOOx0

I expected worse actually, just a lot of landing space fouls, not fouls due to acting really. In replays you can see the fouls. Kuzma extends a knee in one, Lonzo illegally moves his body into Harden's path in transition, not a hard foul, but a foul. Chandler's arms are leaning forward, ref even indicates it. The first foul though, Harden initiates the contact, I didn't examine it that thoroughly, so if you see something else, cool. There was one on Kuzma (or Lance for a reach in) at 1:45 ish where there was no replay and the angle isn't the best, so I can't judge the call, probably some sort of body foul. Then two were technicals.

Okay, looked at that first one again, looks like Harden beat him to the spot and Kuzma came in late, so yea, that's a foul.


Nice video, I think there were about 2 that would have been easy non calls, but yeah they were fouls. And for Harden's part, I don't think he flopped or over sold much of that either. I really expected a phantom call or some broadway acting on Harden's part.
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#137 » by John Murdoch » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Its not just Harden now, its guys like Reddick getting phantom 4point plays
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Re: The officiating problem encapsulated 

Post#138 » by sogood » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:21 pm

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Re: James Harden has 169 more FTM than FGM in his career 

Post#139 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:28 pm

Sgt Major wrote:Image


In my opinion, this ends all the discussions about 90's/early 2000s and now. This is unreal.


Im not really sure this is an indictment on 90s/2000s and now though. Kyrie has like 6k more FGAs than FTs. LeBron 13k more FGAs than FTS, KD 9K more, Kawhi 4k more, Curry 8k more, Lillard 6k more, Butler 3k more. I think this is more an indictment on Harden, not the era.

Edit: Didnt realize it was FGM vs FTM (feel like FGA vs FTA would be the better stat to look at). Even with that said, all the players listed have more FGM than FTM (LeBron for example has 4k more). I still think this is an indictment of Harden and not the era.
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Re: James Harden has 169 more FTM than FGM in his career 

Post#140 » by Sgt Major » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:22 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:Im not really sure this is an indictment on 90s/2000s and now though. Kyrie has like 6k more FGAs than FTs. LeBron 13k more FGAs than FTS, KD 9K more, Kawhi 4k more, Curry 8k more, Lillard 6k more, Butler 3k more. I think this is more an indictment on Harden, not the era.

Edit: Didnt realize it was FGM vs FTM (feel like FGA vs FTA would be the better stat to look at). Even with that said, all the players listed have more FGM than FTM (LeBron for example has 4k more). I still think this is an indictment of Harden and not the era.


I'm referring to the eras only because he wouldn't be getting all those calls in the 90s.
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