ESPN Rankings 3-10 Are Surprisingly Not Horrible

[monopoman]

Hilarious at the people giving **** to Lillard for his 9th place ranking Lillard is the 2nd best PG in the NBA period. He deserves his spot 100% and he has done plenty to prove that fact.

**** he has proven more in the playoffs than a few of those ranked above him.

[freethedevil]

I agree specially Harden is not third above Curry. He couldn't even battle Curry, Klay without KD.

Skickat från min SM-N950F via Tapatalk

how do people even argue this.

Giannis was better in the regular season than lebron. Then he nearly won a chip while lebron missed the playoffs.

Giannis is better. Lebron can prove otherwise next season.

Lebron has proven he's the best player in the game repeatedly,

Does not matter. We are raking best. Not best 2 years ago. Lebron can and should only be judged based on his rs performance which was most certianly not "best int he league"

[Lunartic]

how do people even argue this.

Giannis was better in the regular season than lebron. Then he nearly won a chip while lebron missed the playoffs.

Giannis is better. Lebron can prove otherwise next season.

Lebron has proven he's the best player in the game repeatedly,

Does not matter. We are raking best. Not best 2 years ago. Lebron can and should only be judged based on his rs performance which was most certianly not "best int he league"

And "best" is not limited to "who had the best regular season stats" nor should it ignore context.

What has Giannis done to prove he's the "best"? He hasn't won a thing, instead he got semi-exposed for lacking a complete offensive game in the postseason when it matters the most.

LeBron on that Bucks team would have won the title.

[freethedevil]

Lebron has proven he's the best player in the game repeatedly,

Does not matter. We are raking best. Not best 2 years ago. Lebron can and should only be judged based on his rs performance which was most certianly not "best int he league"

And "best" is not limited to "who had the best regular season stats" nor should it ignore context.

If you only play in the regular season, then yes, it is. There's no context to be had here, lebron was nowhere near the best player in the regular season. His imapct on his team was not near "best", he missed multiple games. Hypotheticals ar enot context, they're excuses.

What has Giannis done to prove he's the "best"?

-> Was the best player in the league over a large 82 game sample
-> Was dominating the playoffs to the extent "stopping" him warranted quadriple/triple teaming
-> Nearly beat the champs despite a significantly inferior supporting cast
-> Outplayed the fmvp
-> Was the defensive anchor(unlike lebron), offense runner, and scorer for a championship worthy team

Lets compare that to Lebron:
-> didn't play as good as giannis in the rs
-> missed games


There's really nothing to be said here. The playoffs were a hypothetical for lebron. We don't consider how a player hypothetically
plays when evaluating people's play

LeBron on that Bucks team would have won the title.

Oh yes Lebron would have anchored a historically great playoff defense

[GiannisAnte34]

it's amusing how LeBron fans are like "Golden State too stacked" then turn around and say "Giannis got exposed"

like... it's pretty clear the Raptors had a better team when the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th best players are all on the Raptors (Kawhi, Lowry, Siakam, Gasol) and sprinkle in FVV who had maybe the hottest shooting streak of all time

[Lunartic]

Does not matter. We are raking best. Not best 2 years ago. Lebron can and should only be judged based on his rs performance which was most certianly not "best int he league"

And "best" is not limited to "who had the best regular season stats" nor should it ignore context.

If you only play in the regular season, then yes, it is. There's no context to be had here, lebron was nowhere near the best player in the regular season. His imapct on his team was not near "best", he missed multiple games. Hypotheticals ar enot context, they're excuses.

What has Giannis done to prove he's the "best"?

-> Was the best player in the league over a large 82 game sample
-> Was dominating the playoffs to the extent "stopping" him warranted quadriple/triple teaming
-> Nearly beat the champs despite a significantly inferior supporting cast
-> Outplayed the fmvp
-> Was the defensive anchor(unlike lebron), offense runner, and scorer for a championship worthy team

Lets compare that to Lebron:
-> didn't play as good as giannis in the rs
-> missed games


There's really nothing to be said here. The playoffs were a hypothetical for lebron. We don't consider how a player hypothetically
plays when evaluating people's play

LeBron on that Bucks team would have won the title.

Oh yes Lebron would have anchored a historically great playoff defense

Am I right in assuming that you can become the best player in the NBA as long as you have a top-3 statistical season and then play worse in the postseason? Giannis played better than Lebron last season, I'm not disagreeing, I'm simply saying Giannis is not an overall better player than Lebron. Ignoring circumstances and context such as injuries and the fact that Lebron clearly didn't have a properly assembled team all are relevant. You can't dismiss Giannis's failures against the Raps by saying they had a superior team, but then ignore what Lebron was dealing with.

Giannis did not outplay Leonard in the playoffs.

Have you even looked at their raw and advanced stats? Not to mention Leonard got the win whereas Giannis was left wide-open at times because he couldn't shoot? Or Giannis missing freethrow after freethrow in the biggest game of his life?

Lebron can shoot and play-make at an elite level, Giannis can do neither of these things. Tripling Bron is not a thing because he will kill you with a pass to a wide open teammate, he's done this all of his career. If you play off of him like Gasol was doing, he will shoot and is a far far better shooter than Giannis. Giannis is indeed a way better defender than Bron.

[Jadoogar]

i'm not so sure lillard is a better player than PG...

PG might be one of the most overrated players in the league. If we think PG and Westbrook are both top 10 players, shouldn't they have won atleast one playoff series? They lost to a younger Jazz team and then embarrassed by a portland team that should have theoretically been a matchup nightmare.

Lillard on the other hand has consistently shown up in the playoffs (not to mention some fantastic series winners).

[rtiff68]

i'm not so sure lillard is a better player than PG...

PG might be one of the most overrated players in the league. If we think PG and Westbrook are both top 10 players, shouldn't they have won atleast one playoff series? They lost to a younger Jazz team and then embarrassed by a portland team that should have theoretically been a matchup nightmare.

Lillard on the other hand has consistently shown up in the playoffs (not to mention some fantastic series winners).

I like Lillard, and I don't have a problem putting him just ahead of George (I actually think #9 and #10 is pretty fair for those two, actually), but let's pump the brakes on the "consistently shows up in the playoffs" talk.

Lillard's numbers go down across the board in the playoffs, and his efficiency has been flat out sub-par.

.406 / .353 / .870 (.544 TS%)...and that's over a 51 game sample size.

His team has also been swept out of the playoffs the past 3 years-- two of which came in the 1st round.

Again, I don't have a problem putting him ahead of George, but let's not engage in hyperbole.

[freethedevil]

And "best" is not limited to "who had the best regular season stats" nor should it ignore context.

If you only play in the regular season, then yes, it is. There's no context to be had here, lebron was nowhere near the best player in the regular season. His imapct on his team was not near "best", he missed multiple games. Hypotheticals ar enot context, they're excuses.

What has Giannis done to prove he's the "best"?

-> Was the best player in the league over a large 82 game sample
-> Was dominating the playoffs to the extent "stopping" him warranted quadriple/triple teaming
-> Nearly beat the champs despite a significantly inferior supporting cast
-> Outplayed the fmvp
-> Was the defensive anchor(unlike lebron), offense runner, and scorer for a championship worthy team

Lets compare that to Lebron:
-> didn't play as good as giannis in the rs
-> missed games


There's really nothing to be said here. The playoffs were a hypothetical for lebron. We don't consider how a player hypothetically
plays when evaluating people's play

LeBron on that Bucks team would have won the title.

Oh yes Lebron would have anchored a historically great playoff defense

Am I right in assuming that you can become the best player in the NBA as long as you have a top-3 statistical season and then play worse in the postseason?

Giannis had the #1 statistical season in addition to a top 3 statistical postseason. The only players whose stats were arguably ahead of him were Curry and Jokic, one of whom got knocked out early. Unless by "statistics" you mean stats that don't factor defense or are weighed arbitrarily" in which case I don't care.

Giannis played better than Lebron last season, I'm not disagreeing, I'm simply saying Giannis is not an overall better player than Lebron.

Ignoring circumstances and context such as injuries and the fact that Lebron clearly didn't have a properly assembled team all are relevant.

Availability isn't a part of the game now? Unless you think lebron with a properly assembled team would have had the best rs in the league, it doesn't matter, because he didn't play in the po's. Context=/hypotheticals.

You can't dismiss Giannis's failures against the Raps by saying they had a superior team

Giannis did not outplay Leonard in the playoffs.

Have you even looked at their raw and advanced stats?

Yes. Giannis had better advanced stats than kawhi did. Kawhi only had an edge in box stats(don't value defense) and stats which arbitrarily weigh box stats(per and ws/48). In stats that aren't arbitrary and do a good job predicting wins, giannis was clearly better.

Not to mention Leonard got the win

You mean liek KD got the win against lebron? Teams win, players play, and kawhi clearly had the better team.

whereas Giannis was left wide-open at times because he couldn't shoot? Or Giannis missing freethrow after freethrow in the biggest game of his life?

Whereas kawhi needed to defer to lowry for the running of the rap's offense while needing gasol/ibaka to anchor his defemse. Giannis "struggled" because of passing limitations, limitations that would have been exploited to a worse degree with kawhi who isn't as good of a passer. So again, on an individual level, giannis was better.

Lebron can shoot and play-make at an elite level,

"Shoot" is an aspect of scoring with giannis also does at an elite level. Giannis does both at an elite level actually, hence why the bucks took out the strong raptors d in 2 games where the raptors shot much better from open looks and threes. It's also why he was able to decimate a strong defense in the celtics despite them throwing walls at him. Though yes, you're right, 2018 playoff lebron was a much better offensive player. Alas 2019 po lebron is a hypothetical and hence irrelevant.

[qute]
Giannis can do neither of these things.

And lebron cannot rebound, defend on the perimiter, protect the paint, or drive to the basket the way Giannis can. And in the part of the season he played he wasn't even a significantly better offensive player. Lebron has no case based on actual play over giannis. Hence he isnt' better.

[Jadoogar]

i'm not so sure lillard is a better player than PG...

PG might be one of the most overrated players in the league. If we think PG and Westbrook are both top 10 players, shouldn't they have won atleast one playoff series? They lost to a younger Jazz team and then embarrassed by a portland team that should have theoretically been a matchup nightmare.

Lillard on the other hand has consistently shown up in the playoffs (not to mention some fantastic series winners).

I like Lillard, and I don't have a problem putting him just ahead of George (I actually think #9 and #10 is pretty fair for those two, actually), but let's pump the brakes on the "consistently shows up in the playoffs" talk.

Lillard's numbers go down across the board in the playoffs, and his efficiency has been flat out sub-par.

.406 / .353 / .870 (.544 TS%)...and that's over a 51 game sample size.

His team has also been swept out of the playoffs the past 3 years-- two of which came in the 1st round.

Again, I don't have a problem putting him ahead of George, but let's not engage in hyperbole.

I agree the Pelicans series wasn't great but being swept by the Warriors shouldn't really be a negative.