MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD

[Quattro]

Jordan didn't have sustained excellence? Really?

I think you've been watching too much Knicks basketball and it's affecting your ability to think rationally about this game.

[TheNG]

You’re right. Kareem and Russell are better than Lebron

and Jordan, assuming you think things consistently.

I might get **** for this but Russell, Kareem, Jordan, and Lebron are tied for GOAT in my mind. All 4 are on the mount Rushmore for different reasons

LeBron doesn't belong to this group of GOATs. They have like twice MVPs and rings.

[Quattro]

Don't worry OP. A couple more superstars and Lebron is set to get ring no. 4. I'm sure he's working the phones as we speak.

[Schiltzenberger]

If he didn't retire for baseball he most likely would have 4 at best.

?

See how ridiculous "would have won 8 straight" sounds.

Not at all.... but I do see how ridiculous '4 at best' is.
Jordan would've had 8 straight.

Anyway, these debates are stupid. MJ is far superior to LeBron, it isn't even close. A simple eye test puts Jordan way above LeBron. Jordan looked like the greatest basketballer while on the court, smooth and graceful. LeBron looks like a great athlete, that plays basketball. You know, like when you got a football player to fill in for a game.

Jordan would average 50 in today's NBA, the league is a joke, full of chuckers that don't know how to finish games.... I don't care if Lillard hit that shot last year, it was a stupid shot, pathetic shot selection. That shot sums up how pathetic the current NBA is.
We will see Houston get knocked out again after chucking up 20+ missed 3s to finish a game, when a layup or 2 probably would've gotten them over the finish line. It's absolute garbage. Stupid players chucking up bad shots, Jordan would be killing them.

[The Rebel]

Magic with 5 rings. He’s better than Lebron. Who else?

According to this thread, isn't Robert Horry one of the greatest?

Did you mispell Russell?

Jordan's bulls coasted to contention without him, Russell's celtics were average in his absence.

Do you have like, any concept of history?

If you think the Bulls coasted without Jordan than you are only proving that you do not know what you are talking about. Not to mention the Bulls changed over half their roster that summer.

[The Rebel]

Yeah, playing against expansion teams like 1993 Miami Heat made Bulls much harder to win title...

Do you penalize everybody that has played since 1993? There are still the same number of teams so it is not like the dilution of talent has changed.

[The Rebel]

and Jordan, assuming you think things consistently.

I might get **** for this but Russell, Kareem, Jordan, and Lebron are tied for GOAT in my mind. All 4 are on the mount Rushmore for different reasons

LeBron doesn't belong to this group of GOATs. They have like twice MVPs and rings.

The funniest thing to me is that Lebron fans deep down all know he doesn't belong which is why they are constantly trying to find another argument that they can try to use.

[70sFan]

Yeah, playing against expansion teams like 1993 Miami Heat made Bulls much harder to win title...

Do you penalize everybody that has played since 1993? There are still the same number of teams so it is not like the dilution of talent has changed.

I don't penalize anyone, I just don't think playing one more round against bad team changes much.

BTW, talent pool is bigger today than it used to be due to international players.

[Perishable517]

also if we add higschool and college, bill russell was ALWAYS winning..

Dude literally won the olympics by a record margin, won b2b with a school that had never even made the ncaa, and topped it off by taking an average offense to the greatest dynasty ever.


All while fighting racism and breaking barriers for people of color everywhere. Jordan got shoe deals tho.

I rate Jordan in the GOAT rankings lower than most people do, given that I have biases for longevity and against the on-court changes Jordan brought to the game.

But I do think that having a black celebrity be as popular as Jordan was a big deal in itself. (Ditto for having a player of any color be popular around the world.)

I like your thinking.

[Wilber85]

Kamby 93 means you didnt watch Jordan. He was 6/6 in the finals. Are you saying Steve Nash is 0-18 in the finals?

How does that even make sense?

[Wilber85]

6/15>3/17 just saying.

I dn't have time ATM to look up each player's playoff history, but let's say each player gets:

1 point for first round playoff exit
2 points for second round playoff exit
3 points for Confernce Finals loss
4 points for Finals loss
5 points for Finals win

Who wins on points?

Are you making up stuff ? Lol this is ridiculous.

[freethedevil]

I might get **** for this but Russell, Kareem, Jordan, and Lebron are tied for GOAT in my mind. All 4 are on the mount Rushmore for different reasons

LeBron doesn't belong to this group of GOATs. They have like twice MVPs and rings.

The funniest thing to me is that Lebron fans deep down all know he doesn't belong which is why they are constantly trying to find another argument that they can try to use.

Why are you so insecure?

Here's Lebron's argument:

-> possible GOAT peak
-> Potentially valuable career
-> GOAT prime

Here's jordan's argument
-> possible GOAT peak

One player has multiple venues of argumentation, the other has one. Jordan's case vs Lebron is based on something he can't claim close to goathood in. Russell and Kareem were unquestionably greater winners. That's just reality.

I'd expect a former mod to have better comping mechanisms.

[Iamtheliquor]

I agree that Russell and his 11 rings need to be more frequently added to the conversation with MJ etc. However I think it has to also be noted that come his final ring in 1969 there were only 14 teams in the NBA; and in earlier seasons like 1960 only 8 teams! Thus the odds of winning the chip were much higher to begin with when you only had 7 teams to face rather than 24-29 that MJ and LBJ have had to.

[OfficialRef]

asterisk rings, ducked hakeem at his peak.

[freethedevil]

Magic with 5 rings. He’s better than Lebron. Who else?

According to this thread, isn't Robert Horry one of the greatest?

Read the OP again and try thinking this time.

[J-Wolves]

?

See how ridiculous "would have won 8 straight" sounds.

Not at all.... but I do see how ridiculous '4 at best' is.
Jordan would've had 8 straight.

Anyway, these debates are stupid. MJ is far superior to LeBron, it isn't even close. A simple eye test puts Jordan way above LeBron. Jordan looked like the greatest basketballer while on the court, smooth and graceful. LeBron looks like a great athlete, that plays basketball. You know, like when you got a football player to fill in for a game.

Jordan would average 50 in today's NBA, the league is a joke, full of chuckers that don't know how to finish games.... I don't care if Lillard hit that shot last year, it was a stupid shot, pathetic shot selection. That shot sums up how pathetic the current NBA is.
We will see Houston get knocked out again after chucking up 20+ missed 3s to finish a game, when a layup or 2 probably would've gotten them over the finish line. It's absolute garbage. Stupid players chucking up bad shots, Jordan would be killing them.

8 straight
Michael Jordans 1995 season season never happened, deleted from history - well in the minds of many.
He came out of retirement, wah wah wah

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1995/

[Wilber85]

asterisk rings, ducked hakeem at his peak.

Maybe he should have been a cupcake coward like lebron, and had Hakeem join the bulls for 5 more rings in a row! Too bad he isnt a coward, and is a competitor

[ATRAIN53]

If you saw him play an dominate you really don't question his greatness.

The guys scored 63 points on the Boston Garden floor against 4 HOF players.

If he played LeBron 1 on 1 - they would trade insane baskets for hours.
But MJ would win because he would refuse to quit until he did.

That is the difference between him and LeBron.

It has taken me years to really appreciate LeBron.

THIS years LeBron being a real team guy, deferring and feeding AD does remind me of when MJ pushed Scottie Pippen to be better.
I like this LeBron A LOT.

[Knicks7Tape]

[Pythagoras]

LeBron doesn't belong to this group of GOATs. They have like twice MVPs and rings.

The funniest thing to me is that Lebron fans deep down all know he doesn't belong which is why they are constantly trying to find another argument that they can try to use.

Why are you so insecure?

Here's Lebron's argument:

-> possible GOAT peak
-> Potentially valuable career
-> GOAT prime

Here's jordan's argument
-> possible GOAT peak

One player has multiple venues of argumentation, the other has one. Jordan's case vs Lebron is based on something he can't claim close to goathood in. Russell and Kareem were unquestionably greater winners. That's just reality.

I'd expect a former mod to have better comping mechanisms.

How does Jordan not have GOAT prime argument??? The Joran/Lebron argument to me boils down to peak/prime vs. career