Cedric Ceballos in ICU with COVID

[clyde21]

We've discussed this. How does being unvaccinated endanger the health of others?

how does driving drunk endanger the lives of others?

you guys can't have it both ways...its either the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms or it doesn't. which is it?

is there a vaccine that protects against drunk drivers?

[NYPiston]

I'm fully vaccinated and I'm frustrated as well about the too high percentage of unvaccinated people filling up hospital beds due to Covid symptoms but, can't we just wish the man well instead of condemning him for POSSIBLY being unvaccinated? Sheesh

[DFolks]

Im personally vaccinated but man people get really insufferable about it.

Yeah, those people wanting to prevent people dying are SO insufferable

There's a difference between wanting to prevent people from dying and rubbing it in your face when you are dying

literally the next post haha

[GrindCityHustle]

ced honestly was one of my fav players growing up along with Dominique Wilkins

he was seriously a great scorer in his prime.

[Shock Defeat]

We've discussed this. How does being unvaccinated endanger the health of others?

how does driving drunk endanger the lives of others?

you guys can't have it both ways...its either the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms or it doesn't. which is it?

is there a vaccine that protects against drunk drivers?

Knowing that I have a risk of not getting an ICU bed because a bunch of covid unvaccinated idiots are taking up beds does impact my daily life and could impact my own ability to get treated for any type of health issue that I have.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I'm vaccinated and got Covid a week ago. Kinda felt like the flu for a few days, but I had a pretty smooth recovery. Not everyone responds the same way, of course.

[WarriorGM]

Always pay attention to the "advanced stats" guys.

Basketball fans should know that percentages matter.

Interesting chart particularly the noticeable flattening in the hospitalization number. I wonder if any of the new therapeutics are having an effect?

[Marty McFly]

Prayers are free, and so is the vaccine.

in the ICU taking up a bed while he could have prevented it by taking the vaccine. these people are next level stupid.

[Kurtz]

Yes. I was hoping to get just one reason, just one reason to justify vaccine mandates. Still haven't gotten it, and then defended my right to choose, given there's not a single reason in the world for a mandate.

Well I don't believe in mandates even if the vaccine was 100% effective. I still don't see how making a few misinformed posts about the effectiveness of vaccines is defending your rights.

What was misinformed?

Fully vaccinated individuals diagnosed with COVID-19 were significantly protected from severe outcomes. Compared to unvaccinated cases, fully vaccinated cases were 74% less likely to be hospitalized and 49% less likely to die as a result of their illness (Table 3).

Sorry, 49% not 50% less likely to die.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html

*edit It's important to know the numbers. It's clear that these vaccines are NOT the end of this, and the long term complications remain a mystery. It's completely reasonable for a young and healthy person to choose continued masking and social distancing. But that's just my opinion. If a 90 year old doesn't want the jab, that's their right not to get it. Where does anyone get off trying to force a medical procedure on someone else of sound mind?

Ok, I'm reading the source that you're relying on, and it seems to me that you're not understanding what you're reading. To wit, from the source:

While the COVID-19 vaccines are effective, there is still a small percentage of the population who are vaccinated that will still be infected with COVID-19 if they are exposed to the virus that causes it. This means that even with high vaccine effectiveness, a small percentage of the population who are vaccinated against COVID-19 will still get sick and some may be hospitalized or even die as a result of their illness. It is also possible that a person could be infected just before or just after vaccination and still get sick. It typically takes about two weeks for the body to build protection after vaccination, so a person could get sick if the vaccine has not had enough time to provide protection.

Cases reported since the start of the vaccination campaign, as of August 14, 2021
Since the start of the vaccination campaign on December 14, 2020, PHAC received case-level vaccine history data for 77.5% (n=642,576) of COVID-19 cases aged 12 years or older.

Of these cases:

569,216 (88.6%) were unvaccinated at the time of their episode date
33,486 (5.2%) were not yet protected by the vaccine, as their episode date occurred less than 14 days after their first dose
32,971 (5.1%) were only partially vaccinated, as their episode date occurred either 14 days or more after their first dose or less than 14 days after their second dose
6,903 (1.1%) were fully vaccinated, as their episode date occurred 14 days or more after their second dose


To summarize: 9 out of 10 people who got COVID were unvaccinated. That alone should end this "debate". But moving on to Death totals: 82% of deaths are amongst the unvaccinated. 9% are from those that got the vaccine but got sick before it took full effect. 8% had 1 of the 2 shots. Only 1.6% of deaths were from people fully vaccinated.

82% > 1.6%. The 1.6% itself is inflated by the fact that most of the infections came from Delta, and Pfizer/Moderna were developed before the Delta variant emerged and are less effective against it than against earlier variants - ergo the need for a Delta booster shot.

ps: Thoughts and Prayers for Cedric.

[DoctorX]

the problem with the pro-choice approach is that it has limitations.

how can the government ban someone CHOOSING to get drunk and CHOOSING to drive a car THEY OWN? the government has no business telling people what they can or can't put in their bodies and then drive their car. but quite obviously they do because it can affect many other people.

it's not a perfect analogy but it's similar - yes, car crashes happen even when people are sober but they are much more likely to happen when someone is intoxicated. because that affects the public, it's outlawed to drink and drive (globally, as far as i know).

it's odd to me that so many people act like they're doing what's best for their body when denying the vaccine whilst eating fast food 5x a week, drinking/smoking, not exercising, etc. when there's overwhelming evidence that those things are bad for them. it's clearly not a matter of health for them, it's more retaining their autonomy. except in this case, it's pretty directly affecting everyone in society.

We've discussed this. How does being unvaccinated endanger the health of others?

1. it contributes to the development of variants
2. it contributes to the spread of the virus to immunocompromised people who can get the vaccine
3. it contributes to the spread of the virus to immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine
4. it leads to reduced space in ICUs, etc. because of the amount of covid patients
5. it delays preventative care for other conditions because of the amount of covid patients

Because of 4 & 5 people who could otherwise be treated for different things can't because there are (a) less appointments, and (b) less safety when going to the hospital [and I can attest to this, my grandmother died before the vaccine was available and the only place she was going was to get her cancer treatment].

All this being said, yes, get the vaccine for not just yourself but also others, but it really shouldn't matter if Cedric has it or not, this sucks and we should all hope for his recovery.

My grandma also died from a minor illness a year ago that could have been treated had she been able to seen in the ER. The problem was due to COVID occupying the ICU she didn't get the treatment she needed to live in time.

[babyjax13]

We've discussed this. How does being unvaccinated endanger the health of others?

1. it contributes to the development of variants
2. it contributes to the spread of the virus to immunocompromised people who can get the vaccine
3. it contributes to the spread of the virus to immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine
4. it leads to reduced space in ICUs, etc. because of the amount of covid patients
5. it delays preventative care for other conditions because of the amount of covid patients

Because of 4 & 5 people who could otherwise be treated for different things can't because there are (a) less appointments, and (b) less safety when going to the hospital [and I can attest to this, my grandmother died before the vaccine was available and the only place she was going was to get her cancer treatment].

All this being said, yes, get the vaccine for not just yourself but also others, but it really shouldn't matter if Cedric has it or not, this sucks and we should all hope for his recovery.

My grandma also died from a minor illness a year ago that could have been treated had she been able to seen in the ER. The problem was due to COVID occupying the ICU she didn't get the treatment she needed to live in time.

Condolences, it's been a really **** time for a lot of people, and it hurts to lose someone when it feels like or could have been prevented.

[Asianiac_24]

We've discussed this. How does being unvaccinated endanger the health of others?

how does driving drunk endanger the lives of others?

you guys can't have it both ways...its either the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms or it doesn't. which is it?

is there a vaccine that protects against drunk drivers?

The data clearly shows the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms and reduce hospitalization rates. By taking up ICU beds you are putting other people’s lives at risk by reducing the amount of hospital resources to help others.

[clyde21]

1. it contributes to the development of variants

leaky vaccines are just as likely if not more likely to contribute to development of new and stronger variants.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/leaky-vaccines-can-produce-stronger-versions-of-viruses-072715

2. it contributes to the spread of the virus to immunocompromised people who can get the vaccine

they should get the vaccine then.

3. it contributes to the spread of the virus to immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine

these subset of people will always be at risk, and from things with a much higher fatality rate than covid...medical apartheid is not the solution here, sorry. it is what it is.

4. it leads to reduced space in ICUs, etc. because of the amount of covid patients

then ban alcohol and fast food and put a gym mandate, considering the vast majority of covid patients are either obese or have 3 other comorbidities from living unhealthy lifestyles. that'll make sure even more ICU beds are empy, no?

5. it delays preventative care for other conditions because of the amount of covid patients

you can say that about anything. people who get heart disease from stuffing their faces with burgers every day are much more likely to take up ICU space than the reverse population...is there gonna be a no burger mandate too?

[clyde21]

how does driving drunk endanger the lives of others?

you guys can't have it both ways...its either the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms or it doesn't. which is it?

is there a vaccine that protects against drunk drivers?

The data clearly shows the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms and reduce hospitalization rates. By taking up ICU beds you are putting other people’s lives at risk by reducing the amount of hospital resources to help others.

this is a stupid, mental gymanstic arugment that can literally be applied to anything.

maybe we should ban cars because of all the car accidents by stupid drivers that take up ICU beds? let's ban all smoking too because of the people who take up ICU beds from smoking. ban all fast food and alcohol because of all the people that develop heart and liver disease who take up ICU beds. let's ban sugar too to make sure no diabetics take up ICU beds. let's make sure to put a gym mandate as well, because something like 70% of all covid patients are morbidly obese...they are taking up all the ICU beds.

the idea that people who don't want to be vaccinated don't deserve an ICU bed but a fat **** who stuffs his face with burgers and alcohol his entire life does is just nonsensical BS. miss me with that ****.

[clyde21]

how does driving drunk endanger the lives of others?

you guys can't have it both ways...its either the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms or it doesn't. which is it?

is there a vaccine that protects against drunk drivers?

Knowing that I have a risk of not getting an ICU bed because a bunch of covid unvaccinated idiots are taking up beds does impact my daily life and could impact my own ability to get treated for any type of health issue that I have.

i feel like the same way about all the people who refuse to exercise and eat sugar and junk food all day. these people should not take up ICU beds from people who choose to live a healthy lifestyle.

sounds like a stupid **** argument when u try to extrapolate it to anything other than covid, huh?

[clyde21]

CDC study finds about 78% of people hospitalized for Covid were overweight or obese

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughly-78percent-of-people-hospitalized-were-overweight-or-obese.html

maybe we should start talking about all these obese people taking up our ICU beds instead.

[SharpyShuffle]

you guys can't have it both ways...its either the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms or it doesn't. which is it?

is there a vaccine that protects against drunk drivers?

Knowing that I have a risk of not getting an ICU bed because a bunch of covid unvaccinated idiots are taking up beds does impact my daily life and could impact my own ability to get treated for any type of health issue that I have.

i feel like the same way about all the people who refuse to exercise and eat sugar and junk food all day. these people should not take up ICU beds from people who choose to live a healthy lifestyle.

sounds like a stupid **** argument when u try to extrapolate it to anything other than covid, huh?

This is a pretty valid argument actually and is literally the entire basis for 'sin taxes' on things like alcohol, cigarettes and (in some places) sugary foods. We tax these things and use that tax money to compensate for the damages those things do.

You seem not just unintelligent, but very unaware of how the world works at a very basic level.

[shangrila]

you guys can't have it both ways...its either the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms or it doesn't. which is it?

is there a vaccine that protects against drunk drivers?

The data clearly shows the vaccine protects against severe covid symptoms and reduce hospitalization rates. By taking up ICU beds you are putting other people’s lives at risk by reducing the amount of hospital resources to help others.

this is a stupid, mental gymanstic arugment that can literally be applied to anything.

maybe we should ban cars because of all the car accidents by stupid drivers that take up ICU beds? let's ban all smoking too because of the people who take up ICU beds from smoking. ban all fast food and alcohol because of all the people that develop heart and liver disease who take up ICU beds. let's ban sugar too to make sure no diabetics take up ICU beds. let's make sure to put a gym mandate as well, because something like 70% of all covid patients are morbidly obese...they are taking up all the ICU beds.

the idea that people who don't want to be vaccinated don't deserve an ICU bed but a fat **** who stuffs his face with burgers and alcohol his entire life does is just nonsensical BS. miss me with that ****.

This seems like a pretty clear false equivalency.

Are we in the middle of a pandemic of drunk drivers? Smoking hospitalisations? Morbid obesity (maybe in the US)? And if we were, wouldn't there be a good reason to do what you're suggesting?

Actually, isn't this what we have been doing? Smoking is illegal in certain areas, there's an age limit to drinking and it's illegal to drive under the influence. These aren't going to stamp things out completely but they do help to limit the damages caused.

Sort of like a vaccine, no?

[Kurtz]

1. it contributes to the development of variants

leaky vaccines are just as likely if not more likely to contribute to development of new and stronger variants.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/leaky-vaccines-can-produce-stronger-versions-of-viruses-072715

Clyde...what in blue hell are you talking about? You don't trust this vaccine that's been tested on millions of people yet as a counter-argument you cite a study done on chickens, with a completely different virus?

Even then, did you bother thinking about what you've read in the study? Here's an excerpt from it:

"These vaccines also allow the virulent virus to continue evolving precisely because they allow the vaccinated individuals, and therefore themselves, to survive,” said Venugopal Nair, who led the research team. He is the head of the Avian Viral Diseases program at The Pirbright Institute."

He is saying that the virus evolves in vaccinated chickens because the unvaccinated ones **** die from it. How is that an argument against vaccination? Also how is that test with a different, deadlier virus at all relevant to COVID, which has a ~98% survival rate even amongst the unvaccinated?


Dude, it's straight-forward. The variants emerge when the virus replicates in the body. There is an infinitesimal chance of a variant mutation emerging during a replication, but give it trillions x trillions of replications and eventually variants will come out.

Vaccinated people have a smaller viral load. They also carry the virus for a shorter period of time. Thus mathematically, a virus carried by a vaccinated person has a much smaller amount of replication and the odds of a variant coming from a vaccinated person are thus proportionally lower compared to an unvaccinated one.

[clyde21]

Knowing that I have a risk of not getting an ICU bed because a bunch of covid unvaccinated idiots are taking up beds does impact my daily life and could impact my own ability to get treated for any type of health issue that I have.

i feel like the same way about all the people who refuse to exercise and eat sugar and junk food all day. these people should not take up ICU beds from people who choose to live a healthy lifestyle.

sounds like a stupid **** argument when u try to extrapolate it to anything other than covid, huh?

This is a pretty valid argument actually and is literally the entire basis for 'sin taxes' on things like alcohol, cigarettes and (in some places) sugary foods. We tax these things and use that tax money to compensate for the damages those things do.

You seem not just unintelligent, but very unaware of how the world works at a very basic level.

"sin taxes"? lmao...the worst food for you that is most likely to put you in the hospital is literally the cheapest. i think you're the one that doesn't know how any of this works.