Should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd?

[lonniefire]

I've always been the type not to split hairs over titles and to, generally, give players credit for their rings and team success. Yes, sometimes guys have more help than others, sometimes guys receive more credit than they should, sometimes they get downright lucky. However I try not to haggle over stuff like that. If you, and your team, got the job done then you get the credit and spoils that come with it. That's the prize.

With that said as I look back over the past decade and the whole "superteam" era, as I look at the Lakers and Nets rosters this year Im becoming increasingly disgusted by players building their own teams to avoid competition. They are literally picking their own teams like they're on the playground.

As I look back at the 3 ATGs from the past decade in Lebron, Steph, and KD and the 9 titles between them...8 of them came from shameless, hand picked superteams and bubble leagues. The only legit title they got between them is Golden States 2015 title. The rest were manufactured and manipulated in some way. Imagine how much greater Lebron's legacy would be if he won 4 rings for Cleveland or if Steph ran it back in 2017 and won without KD? Imagine if KD came back with OKC in 2017, beat the Warriors, and then beat Lebron in the finals? Their legacies are so much stronger.

So my question is as time goes by and we see guys like Giannis and Kawhi do it the right way should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd and downgraded in some way? Should we hold their lack of competitiveness, lack of pride against them? Or should their legacies be rewarded for doing everything possible to avoid competition and win easy rings? Do we even care about competition anymore?

LOL. Why don’t we just put an asterisk beside every ring won in NBA history?

It’s incredible the lengths today’s fans go through in order to discredit the elite players. But hey, the worst poster on this site gave you an AND1 so you have that going for you.

Where did OP go wrong? Did you just read the title and not read the actual OP? Its incredible the length you went through to try and discredit OP by blatantly lying by saying that only one person liked the post when its actually 6. Are we all the worse posters in the world for liking his post lol? Even a Laker fan And1 the post and Lebron plays for the Lakers lol.

Your post is going to continue to decrease in value because 6 people AND1 the post and by the time you respond it will probably be more people than that. Your post is not going to age well at all This is just an all around awful post

[Stan]

I really do think the average basketball fan is the dumbest in all of sports

1. They judge players almost entirely by ring count like it's tennis, then get upset when players join better teams to win championships

2. Getting drafted to superteams like Russell, Magic & Bird is perfectly legitimate, but get drafted to a ineptly run franchise with Mo Williams as your best teammate? Oh well, sh*t outta luck. Either stay there and get deemed a ringless loser the rest of your career, or go somewhere better and get called a noncompetitive ring chaser

3. Just in regards to LeBron, calling the 2013 Heat with Wade averaging 16 ppg in the playoffs, the Cavs with Love averaging 9 ppg in the Finals, and the Lakers with ancient Rondo as their 3rd best player "superteams" is asinine. Talented teams? Sure. Some unfairly assembled squad? Nah, not even close

The greatest irony is you discredit those titles but give full credit to the 2015 Warriors who didn't face a healthy opponent the entire playoffs, then faced a crippled Cavs team in the Finals. Ditto the Bucks this year who had virtually every contending team suffer a significant injury

[Homer38]

I've always been the type not to split hairs over titles and to, generally, give players credit for their rings and team success. Yes, sometimes guys have more help than others, sometimes guys receive more credit than they should, sometimes they get downright lucky. However I try not to haggle over stuff like that. If you, and your team, got the job done then you get the credit and spoils that come with it. That's the prize.

With that said as I look back over the past decade and the whole "superteam" era, as I look at the Lakers and Nets rosters this year Im becoming increasingly disgusted by players building their own teams to avoid competition. They are literally picking their own teams like they're on the playground.

As I look back at the 3 ATGs from the past decade in Lebron, Steph, and KD and the 9 titles between them...8 of them came from shameless, hand picked superteams and bubble leagues. The only legit title they got between them is Golden States 2015 title. The rest were manufactured and manipulated in some way. Imagine how much greater Lebron's legacy would be if he won 4 rings for Cleveland or if Steph ran it back in 2017 and won without KD? Imagine if KD came back with OKC in 2017, beat the Warriors, and then beat Lebron in the finals? Their legacies are so much stronger.

So my question is as time goes by and we see guys like Giannis and Kawhi do it the right way should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd and downgraded in some way? Should we hold their lack of competitiveness, lack of pride against them? Or should their legacies be rewarded for doing everything possible to avoid competition and win easy rings? Do we even care about competition anymore?

LOL. Why don’t we just put an asterisk beside every ring won in NBA history?

It’s incredible the lengths today’s fans go through in order to discredit the elite players. But hey, the worst poster on this site gave you an AND1 so you have that going for you.

Where did OP go wrong? Did you just read the title and not read the actual OP? Its incredible the length you went through to try and discredit OP by blatantly lying by saying that only one person liked the post when its actually 6. Are we all the worse posters in the world for liking his post lol? Even a Laker fan And1 the post and Lebron plays for the Lakers lol.

Your post is going to continue to decrease in value because 6 people AND1 the post and by the time you respond it will probably be more people than that. Your post is not going to age well at all

LOL,this lakers fan hate LBJ like crazy.Just read all of his posts please!

For the AND1,I have more AND1 for my first post after in this thread(despite it was only 3 words...)that the garbage that the OP has written.

[camby23]

I really do think the average basketball fan is the dumbest in all of sports

1. They judge players almost entirely by ring count like it's tennis, then get upset when players join better teams to win championships

2. Getting drafted to superteams like Russell, Magic & Bird is perfectly legitimate, but get drafted to a ineptly run franchise with Mo Williams as your best teammate? Oh well, sh*t outta luck. Either stay there and get deemed a ringless loser the rest of your career, or go somewhere better and get called a noncompetitive ring chaser

3. Just in regards to LeBron, calling the 2013 Heat with Wade averaging 16 ppg in the playoffs, the Cavs with Love averaging 9 ppg in the Finals, and the Lakers with ancient Rondo as their 3rd best player "superteams" is asinine. Talented teams? Sure. Some unfairly assembled squad? Nah, not even close

The greatest irony is you discredit those titles but give full credit to the 2015 Warriors who didn't face a healthy opponent the entire playoffs, then faced a crippled Cavs team in the Finals. Ditto the Bucks this year who had virtually every contending team suffer a significant injury

The OP is a Jordan stan. Don't expect too much. Especially if the conversation is about LeBron.

[Stan]

I really do think the average basketball fan is the dumbest in all of sports

1. They judge players almost entirely by ring count like it's tennis, then get upset when players join better teams to win championships

2. Getting drafted to superteams like Russell, Magic & Bird is perfectly legitimate, but get drafted to a ineptly run franchise with Mo Williams as your best teammate? Oh well, sh*t outta luck. Either stay there and get deemed a ringless loser the rest of your career, or go somewhere better and get called a noncompetitive ring chaser

3. Just in regards to LeBron, calling the 2013 Heat with Wade averaging 16 ppg in the playoffs, the Cavs with Love averaging 9 ppg in the Finals, and the Lakers with ancient Rondo as their 3rd best player "superteams" is asinine. Talented teams? Sure. Some unfairly assembled squad? Nah, not even close

The greatest irony is you discredit those titles but give full credit to the 2015 Warriors who didn't face a healthy opponent the entire playoffs, then faced a crippled Cavs team in the Finals. Ditto the Bucks this year who had virtually every contending team suffer a significant injury

The OP is a Jordan stan. Don't expect too much. Especially if the conversation is about LeBron.

The criticism of superteams coming from Jordan stans is ironic considering the Bulls won 55 games and nearly made the conference finals without him

[Stalwart]

And there you go. I believe we can shut down this farce now.

Or you could just disagree and...move on.

Kobe did not want to play with Charlotte or some other teams in his draft day...He wanted to play in a big market from day one.

Big market =/= stacking the deck to avoid competition though.

[Stalwart]

Or you could just disagree and...move on.

Kobe did not want to play with Charlotte or some other teams in his draft day...He wanted to play in a big market from day one.

He also demanded a trade out of LA because he didn't have enough help, and when offered one (to Chicago) turned it down because he wouldn't have enough help.

Kobe was an amazing player, one of the greats on this planet, but this narrative of him as the patron saint of loyalty and sacrifice really needs to go. We can remember him for what he was, not what he wasn't.

Asking your franchise to improve the roster is light years away from colluding with the competition to win easy rings. I have to believe you understand this and are being intentionally dishonest.

[infinite11285]

Why would we remove everyones rings because Lebrons were manufactured?

To answer your OP: No. Teams still have to perform on the court to capture a championship, regardless of the players on the roster. Going as far as to diminish championships because a team is talented is ridiculous, given that, untalented teams aren’t good enough to win. Further, all rings can be asterisked if you dig for reasons to diminish them.

And what exactly is a manufactured ring?

[DonaldSanders]

Hilarious people are putting down Kawhi as someone who "tried to do it right" when he was a total jerk and forced a trade from the Spurs, then tried his best to create his own superteam with the Clippers. What a joke.

[hoosierdaddy34]

I've always been the type not to split hairs over titles and to, generally, give players credit for their rings and team success. Yes, sometimes guys have more help than others, sometimes guys receive more credit than they should, sometimes they get downright lucky. However I try not to haggle over stuff like that. If you, and your team, got the job done then you get the credit and spoils that come with it. That's the prize.

With that said as I look back over the past decade and the whole "superteam" era, as I look at the Lakers and Nets rosters this year Im becoming increasingly disgusted by players building their own teams to avoid competition. They are literally picking their own teams like they're on the playground.

As I look back at the 3 ATGs from the past decade in Lebron, Steph, and KD and the 9 titles between them...8 of them came from shameless, hand picked superteams and bubble leagues. The only legit title they got between them is Golden States 2015 title. The rest were manufactured and manipulated in some way. Imagine how much greater Lebron's legacy would be if he won 4 rings for Cleveland or if Steph ran it back in 2017 and won without KD? Imagine if KD came back with OKC in 2017, beat the Warriors, and then beat Lebron in the finals? Their legacies are so much stronger.

So my question is as time goes by and we see guys like Giannis and Kawhi do it the right way should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd and downgraded in some way? Should we hold their lack of competitiveness, lack of pride against them? Or should their legacies be rewarded for doing everything possible to avoid competition and win easy rings? Do we even care about competition anymore?

Kawhi won because the Warriors all got hurt.

Giannis got his because they whole league got hurt due to the shortened and brutal schedule because of the quick turnaround and tight time frame for the season.

So let’s just go ahead and give everyone asterisks shall we? Everybody that wins a title gets an asterisk then all the bozos and haters can be happy. Because that’s what we are, a society of whining and babies.

[loserX]

Kobe did not want to play with Charlotte or some other teams in his draft day...He wanted to play in a big market from day one.

He also demanded a trade out of LA because he didn't have enough help, and when offered one (to Chicago) turned it down because he wouldn't have enough help.

Kobe was an amazing player, one of the greats on this planet, but this narrative of him as the patron saint of loyalty and sacrifice really needs to go. We can remember him for what he was, not what he wasn't.

Asking your franchise to improve the roster is light years away from colluding with the competition to win easy rings. I have to believe you understand this and are being intentionally dishonest.

"Asking your franchise" is not the same as saying "trade me to Pluto" if you don't have enough help. I have to believe you understand this and are being intentionally dishonest.

[Duffman100]

I've always been the type not to split hairs over titles and to, generally, give players credit for their rings and team success. Yes, sometimes guys have more help than others, sometimes guys receive more credit than they should, sometimes they get downright lucky. However I try not to haggle over stuff like that. If you, and your team, got the job done then you get the credit and spoils that come with it. That's the prize.

With that said as I look back over the past decade and the whole "superteam" era, as I look at the Lakers and Nets rosters this year Im becoming increasingly disgusted by players building their own teams to avoid competition. They are literally picking their own teams like they're on the playground.

As I look back at the 3 ATGs from the past decade in Lebron, Steph, and KD and the 9 titles between them...8 of them came from shameless, hand picked superteams and bubble leagues. The only legit title they got between them is Golden States 2015 title. The rest were manufactured and manipulated in some way. Imagine how much greater Lebron's legacy would be if he won 4 rings for Cleveland or if Steph ran it back in 2017 and won without KD? Imagine if KD came back with OKC in 2017, beat the Warriors, and then beat Lebron in the finals? Their legacies are so much stronger.

So my question is as time goes by and we see guys like Giannis and Kawhi do it the right way should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd and downgraded in some way? Should we hold their lack of competitiveness, lack of pride against them? Or should their legacies be rewarded for doing everything possible to avoid competition and win easy rings? Do we even care about competition anymore?

Kawhi won because the Warriors all got hurt.

Giannis got his because they whole league got hurt due to the shortened and brutal schedule because of the quick turnaround and tight time frame for the season.

So let’s just go ahead and give everyone asterisks shall we? Everybody that wins a title gets an asterisk then all the bozos and haters can be happy. Because that’s what we are, a society of whining and babies.

Kawhi / Raptors won because Durant got hurt. Just want to make that clear. Klay missed 5 quarters.

[Stalwart]

I've always been the type not to split hairs over titles and to, generally, give players credit for their rings and team success. Yes, sometimes guys have more help than others, sometimes guys receive more credit than they should, sometimes they get downright lucky. However I try not to haggle over stuff like that. If you, and your team, got the job done then you get the credit and spoils that come with it. That's the prize.

With that said as I look back over the past decade and the whole "superteam" era, as I look at the Lakers and Nets rosters this year Im becoming increasingly disgusted by players building their own teams to avoid competition. They are literally picking their own teams like they're on the playground.

As I look back at the 3 ATGs from the past decade in Lebron, Steph, and KD and the 9 titles between them...8 of them came from shameless, hand picked superteams and bubble leagues. The only legit title they got between them is Golden States 2015 title. The rest were manufactured and manipulated in some way. Imagine how much greater Lebron's legacy would be if he won 4 rings for Cleveland or if Steph ran it back in 2017 and won without KD? Imagine if KD came back with OKC in 2017, beat the Warriors, and then beat Lebron in the finals? Their legacies are so much stronger.

So my question is as time goes by and we see guys like Giannis and Kawhi do it the right way should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd and downgraded in some way? Should we hold their lack of competitiveness, lack of pride against them? Or should their legacies be rewarded for doing everything possible to avoid competition and win easy rings? Do we even care about competition anymore?

Kawhi won because the Warriors all got hurt.

Giannis got his because they whole league got hurt due to the shortened and brutal schedule because of the quick turnaround and tight time frame for the season.

So let’s just go ahead and give everyone asterisks shall we? Everybody that wins a title gets an asterisk then all the bozos and haters can be happy. Because that’s what we are, a society of whining and babies.

You mean the ridiculously superteams all got injured. They went from superteams to regular teams.

Kawhi and Giannis faced what was in front of them without colluding with their friends to avoid competition.

[Texas Chuck]

I wish just one of you guys could explain to me how you benefit from dismissing another team's or player's accomplishments? Do you honestly think if you can just convince people that Lebron and Steph and KD's rings are somehow invalid that everyone will suddenly start worshipping Kobe Bryant? That this is somehow all zero sum where for Kobe to look good someone else must look bad?

Do you honestly not understand that's not how any of this works? That Kobe can be great AND Steph can be great And Lebron can be great? And no matter how great Lebron ends up it doesn't make Kobe any worse in any way?

Can you not just celebrate the great player you love without needing to diminish others? I don't get this from Jordan fans who trash Pippen. I don't get this from the Trae guys desperate to trash Luka? It just makes no sense to me. Luka and Trae are both great, independently of each other. Jordan is a serious GOAT candidate, but its okay to acknowledge Pippen was really freaking good and all that 6-0 stuff you love to spout never happens without him.

I just wish I could hear one coherent argument for this approach. But since I don't believe you can provide one, I wish you guys would just stop.

All any player and team can do is beat the teams in front of them. Injured/not-injured, with great teammates, with lessor teammates. If at the end you win the championship that's literally all you can do. You can't unsuspend the Suns, you can't put KD and Klay's bodies back together, you can't make Lebron/AD 100%.

[Stalwart]

He also demanded a trade out of LA because he didn't have enough help, and when offered one (to Chicago) turned it down because he wouldn't have enough help.

Kobe was an amazing player, one of the greats on this planet, but this narrative of him as the patron saint of loyalty and sacrifice really needs to go. We can remember him for what he was, not what he wasn't.

Asking your franchise to improve the roster is light years away from colluding with the competition to win easy rings. I have to believe you understand this and are being intentionally dishonest.

"Asking your franchise" is not the same as saying "trade me to Pluto" if you don't have enough help. I have to believe you understand this and are being intentionally dishonest.

Well we can disagree. Theres a clear difference in my mind.

[nikster]

Asking your franchise to improve the roster is light years away from colluding with the competition to win easy rings. I have to believe you understand this and are being intentionally dishonest.

"Asking your franchise" is not the same as saying "trade me to Pluto" if you don't have enough help. I have to believe you understand this and are being intentionally dishonest.

Well we can disagree. Theres a clear difference in my mind and minds of most sane people.

Kobe: "I dont have enough talent around me, I want to play somewhere else"
Lebron: "I dont have enough talent around me Im going to play somewhere else"

[hoosierdaddy34]

I've always been the type not to split hairs over titles and to, generally, give players credit for their rings and team success. Yes, sometimes guys have more help than others, sometimes guys receive more credit than they should, sometimes they get downright lucky. However I try not to haggle over stuff like that. If you, and your team, got the job done then you get the credit and spoils that come with it. That's the prize.

With that said as I look back over the past decade and the whole "superteam" era, as I look at the Lakers and Nets rosters this year Im becoming increasingly disgusted by players building their own teams to avoid competition. They are literally picking their own teams like they're on the playground.

As I look back at the 3 ATGs from the past decade in Lebron, Steph, and KD and the 9 titles between them...8 of them came from shameless, hand picked superteams and bubble leagues. The only legit title they got between them is Golden States 2015 title. The rest were manufactured and manipulated in some way. Imagine how much greater Lebron's legacy would be if he won 4 rings for Cleveland or if Steph ran it back in 2017 and won without KD? Imagine if KD came back with OKC in 2017, beat the Warriors, and then beat Lebron in the finals? Their legacies are so much stronger.

So my question is as time goes by and we see guys like Giannis and Kawhi do it the right way should Lebron, Steph, and KD's rings be asterisk'd and downgraded in some way? Should we hold their lack of competitiveness, lack of pride against them? Or should their legacies be rewarded for doing everything possible to avoid competition and win easy rings? Do we even care about competition anymore?

Kawhi won because the Warriors all got hurt.

Giannis got his because they whole league got hurt due to the shortened and brutal schedule because of the quick turnaround and tight time frame for the season.

So let’s just go ahead and give everyone asterisks shall we? Everybody that wins a title gets an asterisk then all the bozos and haters can be happy. Because that’s what we are, a society of whining and babies.

You mean the ridiculously superteams all got injured. They went from superteams to regular teams.

Kawhi and Giannis faced what was in front of them without colluding with their friends to avoid competition.

I rest my case

[Harry Garris]

Nobody judges players strictly based on rings. But they should be a factor(assuming you do it the right way). The reason Lebron is in the top 5 is due to rings. Take those away, or asterisk them, and he falls out of the top 10. So you can't say titles don't matter.

If we remove the rings of each all-time great player, LBJ is still in the top 3-5 at least....

Why would we remove everyones rings because Lebrons were manufactured?

I'm pretty sure every championship ring is manufactured. They don't grow on trees you know...

[Stalwart]

"Asking your franchise" is not the same as saying "trade me to Pluto" if you don't have enough help. I have to believe you understand this and are being intentionally dishonest.

Well we can disagree. Theres a clear difference in my mind and minds of most sane people.

Kobe: "I dont have enough talent around me, I want to play somewhere else"
Lebron: "I dont have enough talent around me Im going to play somewhere else"

Kobe: hey guys we need to improve the roster or Im out

Lebron: Hey best players in the conference...lets stop competing and all join forces. We'll devastate the eastern conference for 10 years and win easy rings!

Seriously. Stop being so dishonest.

[loserX]

Well we can disagree. Theres a clear difference in my mind and minds of most sane people.

Kobe: "I dont have enough talent around me, I want to play somewhere else"
Lebron: "I dont have enough talent around me Im going to play somewhere else"

Kobe: hey guys we need to improve the roster or Im out

Lebron: Hey best players in the conference...lets stop competing and all join forces. We'll devastate the eastern conference for 10 years and win easy rings!

Seriously. Stop being so dishonest.

LeBron: "I want to play with more talent. Now that I am a free agent, I am going to do that."
Kobe: "I want to play with more talent. I'm not a free agent, so you need to either trade my teammates or trade me. And if my new team doesn't have enough talent afterward I don't want to go there either."

I personally have more respect for the former tack than the latter. As you say, we disagree.