Who can hold out longer? Ben or philly?

[hauntedcomputer]

I don't think Simmons' value is declining at all, simply because all GMs think they are geniuses who are the key to unlocking potential. They love a pig in a poke. After all, that is what the NBA draft is all about. Someone may not overpay, but more than a few will be lining up to pay. For one thing, you are buying at least two-three years of job security while you sell the concept of your wild gamble.

[Flash4thewin]

Because to anyone with half a brain it is absolute lunacy. I don’t understand how Morey has deluded himself and Sixers fans into believing that they’re going to get a better offer now than what they would have gotten before the season started. There are two things working against them that the pro Morey side never acknowledge.

1. Simmons hasn’t played at all this season. What GM aim their right mind would believe that the trade value goes up if a player hasn’t been on the court.

2. The whole mental health issues going public have made a mess of this whole thing. Now GMs are going to start questioning long term if Simmons is in the right frame of mind and he might bail on their teams. Look at how Kyrie’s erratic behavior has made him toxic.

Simmons asked for a trade in June/July it’s been almost 5 months. By December it’s going to be almost half a year and a quarter of the season that he hasn’t played. Should have been traded during the offseason, but Morey insisted on dicking around with insane trade requests. No team actually NEEDS Simmons right now. A lot could use him but the fact that Morey dragged this thing on longer doesn’t provide any incentive for any team to empty their war chest.

I agree with you, the Ben Simmons stock has tanked. I would imagine tho alot of fans don't think selling a stock when its tanked is the best course of action.

I don't think the Ben Simmons stock can get any lower to be honest. You have someone who floundered in the playoffs, was publicly a Diva, and then publicly acknowledged mental/emotional health issues on top of that.

Since Ben Simmons is the largest stake holder in the Ben Simmons stock, he will eventually have to fix that, or there is no next great payday.

Since there appears to be no great offer coming in for 76ers, putting as much time in-between the shock of Ben Simmons announcements and trading Ben might be their best play. They are going to have to weigh the perception they give off to future players they will sign (IE being held hostage) versus the message that trying this with the 76ers is a loosing strategy.

At some point Ben Simmons or his handlers are going to have to go on a full court character rebuilding tour de-force because his future earning are going to be on the line. We will see the all business Simmons working out and taking 3 pointers in practice..etc... something that is telling future potential employers Simmons is working his tail off, .....That might be the 76ers best point for a return on a trade. Cause...right now... Ben Simmons does not seem like an actual player ready to help anyyyyyyone.....

Keep repeating the same thing

Simmons is a seed investor in FaZe Clan

That’s potentially worth waaaay more than his NBA earnings

KD earns more from his investments than from the NBA

It’s not about his contract anymore

Are his investment in FaZe Clan worth more than the 150 mil left on his deal? Without sounding obvious or sarcastic do you really think the 76er are just going to let this play along on his term? No they are going to legally void his contract and have him banned from playing in the NBA for the duration of his signed contract, 4 more years. Now if his investments in FaZa are as great as you claim then he won't care right? If he allegedly has a fortune worth more than the remaining 150 mil then why not retire now. It would seem money is not a issue if he is allegedly going to make a killing, then why get publicly destroyed?

If he's fighting this, its clearly about his contract. Assuming logically that he gets his contract voided and is banned for the duration of his contract, do you honestly think Nike won't drop him as will whatever endorsement deals he has left? Do you think Ben in all this mess is spending less or spending the same or more as before? Again if his alleged windfall dwarfs his remaining 150 mil contract when why fight this right?

[K3nny Pow3rs]

My sources tell me Jerami Grant for Ben Simmons
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264761/Sixers-Interested-In-Jerami-Grant-James-Harden-For-Ben-Simmons

[BloodNinja]

My sources tell me Jerami Grant for Ben Simmons
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264761/Sixers-Interested-In-Jerami-Grant-James-Harden-For-Ben-Simmons

Ewwww no. We have suffered through Villanueva, Josh Smith, Drummond. Want no piece of another lazy bum. Jerami is what Detroit basketball is all about.

[epfou1]

Currently Simmons is winning this - he can take half or a full year off to get his head right - work on his weaknesses and over come any injury problems and enter his Prime years next season.

This is the same quote that Simmons has given every offseason. I’m going to work on my game. Next season, his shooting and free throws gets progressively worse.

It’s the same excuse he gave to Australia when he skipped the Olympics and yet he is spotted in London watching Wimbledon, while his international teammates are preparing for the tournament.

Now that he has got paid, he doesn’t want to put the work in to improve.

[Pennebaker]

looks like it's going to be Ben.

Seriously, as a franchise the Sixers are going to want to end this debacle sooner rather than later. They're trying to contend. They care less about teaching Ben Simmons a lesson than they do acquiring helpful pieces for him.

[Nate505]

looks like it's going to be Ben.

Seriously, as a franchise the Sixers are going to want to end this debacle sooner rather than later. They're trying to contend. They care less about teaching Ben Simmons a lesson than they do acquiring helpful pieces for him.

What kind of dumbass franchise would offer any helpful pieces to acquire Simmons.

[ArksNetsSince99]

looks like it's going to be Ben.

Seriously, as a franchise the Sixers are going to want to end this debacle sooner rather than later. They're trying to contend. They care less about teaching Ben Simmons a lesson than they do acquiring helpful pieces for him.

What kind of dumbass franchise would offer any helpful pieces to acquire Simmons.

Knicks will, book it

[K3nny Pow3rs]

Currently Simmons is winning this - he can take half or a full year off to get his head right - work on his weaknesses and over come any injury problems and enter his Prime years next season.

This is the same quote that Simmons has given every offseason. I’m going to work on my game. Next season, his shooting and free throws gets progressively worse.

It’s the same excuse he gave to Australia when he skipped the Olympics and yet he is spotted in London watching Wimbledon, while his international teammates are preparing for the tournament.

Now that he has got paid, he doesn’t want to put the work in to improve.

In terms of skill, his free-throws got better, but after the all-star break he had some kind of mental issue-
Before the all-star break, he shot 67.1% from the free-throw-line.
After the all-star break, he shot 53.3% from the free-throw-line.

[Jables]

The Sixers are an organisation with accountability to a lot of people and need to accept they are not going to get some absurd star like Lillard or Harden for Simmons. Their front office is very good at leaking what they want, and I fully believe there are a lot of petty people behind the scenes that can extend this issue for a while yet, but an organisation can't be more stubborn than one person.

[stormi]

My sources tell me Jerami Grant for Ben Simmons
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264761/Sixers-Interested-In-Jerami-Grant-James-Harden-For-Ben-Simmons

Ewwww no. We have suffered through Villanueva, Josh Smith, Drummond. Want no piece of another lazy bum. Jerami is what Detroit basketball is all about.

Mediocrity?

[Yungsta404]

I don't think Simmons' value is declining at all, simply because all GMs think they are geniuses who are the key to unlocking potential. They love a pig in a poke. After all, that is what the NBA draft is all about. Someone may not overpay, but more than a few will be lining up to pay. For one thing, you are buying at least two-three years of job security while you sell the concept of your wild gamble.

I disagree, the longer ben simmons doesn't play the less valuable he is. His value right now is like melting ice because as time goes by, the time left on his contract shrinks and more questions will be asked if he is even in basketball shape.

Also other GMs would be taking on much more risk and putting their own job in jeopardy if they trade for him because they could be potentially trading for $100m+ in dead salary for someone who hasn't played basketball in awhile and could easily pull this same stunt for their franchise.

I think if morey doesn't get the ben simmons situation settled this season, he will be in the hot seat in the offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if Morey "resigned" If the ben simmons drama continues into next season.

I say the most likely scenario is Ben simmons traded to somewhere this season to a team no one would have expected for much less value than people think.

[kuclas]

I don’t know why anyone would side with Simmons. Sixers have tried to help him. Yes. It’s become a pissing contest once a trade couldn’t happen

But Simmons is in the wrong here. Klutch is trying to flex its muscles. It’s on thing if sixer weren’t competing. And tanking like rockets and just tell Simmons to sit at home (paid)

That’s where klutch is in the wrong. Sixers aren’t tanking.

All the teams players are told to sit at home and wait out a trade generally involved tanking teams or not competing teams. Sixers are coming off last season as 1 seed here.

What did klutch expect. Sit Simmons at home paid? Like Anthony Davis ?

Does the nba players association want klutch to win this battle and have Simmons traded? Because the next cba. Players may not get this 4-5 year guaranteed contract anymore.

Imagine if Simmons 5 year contract were only really a 2 year deal. (Like NFL players contracts where most of the money is guaranteed in signing bonus and 2 years).

Would Simmons give up the remaining 140 million guarantee. Hell no. A team may take a flyer on him at 25-30’million one year with team option for 2nd season.

But he would be essentially giving up 100 Million guarantee money if nba contracts were not guarantee money.

[VDT]

I mean if Philly can't get a decent trade package in return for Simmons they can hold out the rest of his contract. No sense in trading him if the trade isn't going to result in a meaningful improvement in the team's title chances.

This is definitely not how I see it. If he doesn't play this year then his value just goes down. Those advocating on holding Simmons indefinitely feels like they just want to "stick it" to Simmons rather then good asset management.

His value has no way to improve. He won't play and even if he does it's plain to see that it wouldn't go very well. And as for the "teams getting desperate" to make his value go up. This discounts the fact that other teams are involved in bidding and can outbid a devalued Simmons quite easily. So how do you get a star with him by holding on to him?

Holding on to him without a realistic way to increase his value is just lunacy to me. There are still decent (albeit not franchise changing packages) out there that you can combine with your own assets to get their star at a later date.

Because to anyone with half a brain it is absolute lunacy. I don’t understand how Morey has deluded himself and Sixers fans into believing that they’re going to get a better offer now than what they would have gotten before the season started. There are two things working against them that the pro Morey side never acknowledge.

1. Simmons hasn’t played at all this season. What GM aim their right mind would believe that the trade value goes up if a player hasn’t been on the court.

2. The whole mental health issues going public have made a mess of this whole thing. Now GMs are going to start questioning long term if Simmons is in the right frame of mind and he might bail on their teams. Look at how Kyrie’s erratic behavior has made him toxic.

Simmons asked for a trade in June/July it’s been almost 5 months. By December it’s going to be almost half a year and a quarter of the season that he hasn’t played. Should have been traded during the offseason, but Morey insisted on dicking around with insane trade requests. No team actually NEEDS Simmons right now. A lot could use him but the fact that Morey dragged this thing on longer doesn’t provide any incentive for any team to empty their war chest.

It's been 5 months and people still dont get it. Precisely, because of Embid's injury risks and the team's cap situation the Sixers cant stand to lose value in the trade. Losing value here and getting some middling pieces would mean that they would have to wait 2-3 years before they could try to make a major move. It's much more likely that Embiid would ask out if this was the path the Sixers chose to take compared to the current situation. The Sixers will refuse to lose value in a trade for as long as they possibly can. How long that is , no one knows. To your points:

1. Simmons value hasnt really changed. He is an established player, still in his early prime and under contract for 4 more playoff runs. The evaluation of GMs doesnt change whether Simmons plays or not. What changes is how much teams are willing to give for Simmons, which is the entire point here. The Sixers are waiting until a team is forced to trade their star so that they can get the value they need.

2. I dont think anyone buys the mental health bit. Everyone understands it is just a ploy toget him out of Philadelphia as he is not a good fit there and it starts to be detrimental for his career and his future earnings.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Ben can hold out longer. Eventually, Embiid is going to get pissed they havent dealt him [he’s not going to want this to linger forever and waste a year(s) of his prime] and that will force Morey to make a trade.

[rzzzzz]

How dare the Sixers expect Simmons to play ball for them. Just pay the guy to sit at home while he decides who he wants to play for, and then work out a deal to take on that team’s bad contracts, so they can afford him. Better yet, Philly should have to pay most of his contract to play where he want to. (Which is obviously LA, right next to his new $20 million crib.)

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Philly can hold out WAY longer, as the franchise has no relative "shelf-life". Meanwhile, Simmons is in his Athletic prime and that will end at some point.

Is Simmons willing to sit out for 4 years of his prime with no pay? Doubt it.

General Managers have limited shelf lives. Particularly those with disgruntled supposed allstars.

[User_denied]

I mean if Philly can't get a decent trade package in return for Simmons they can hold out the rest of his contract. No sense in trading him if the trade isn't going to result in a meaningful improvement in the team's title chances.

This is definitely not how I see it. If he doesn't play this year then his value just goes down. Those advocating on holding Simmons indefinitely feels like they just want to "stick it" to Simmons rather then good asset management.

His value has no way to improve. He won't play and even if he does it's plain to see that it wouldn't go very well. And as for the "teams getting desperate" to make his value go up. This discounts the fact that other teams are involved in bidding and can outbid a devalued Simmons quite easily. So how do you get a star with him by holding on to him?

Holding on to him without a realistic way to increase his value is just lunacy to me. There are still decent (albeit not franchise changing packages) out there that you can combine with your own assets to get their star at a later date.

It's not about teams getting desperate it's about the amount of available contracts there are to trade for him. Players that were signed this offseason aren't eligible to be traded until like late December I believe. And there would obviously be a lot more trade possibilities this offseason.

I mean... I guess. It's a fair point about the market opening up and maybe they know something about a deal they have been offered once those contracts become tradeable. But if that is what they are waiting for why fine him? The fine's are just drawing attention to the situation (bringing possible negative value), making Simons look even brattier (bringing possible negative value), and there's a chance you actually force Simons to play again. Him playing again is the worst case scenario since it would destroy team chemistry, he wouldn't be very good and his value would drop.

I keep coming back to the same word with this situation. "Spiteful". It's made me dislike all the parties involved. Rich Paul, Simons, Sixers management, etc. If there was just ONE grown up at this table that made a responsible decision this whole situation could of been avoided. Instead it's turned into a pissing contest.

[Wilfried]

As long as Philly can fine him, why wouldn't they be able to hold it out longer.
Team is playing well (with Embiid), Maxey is exploding and chemistry seems good.

If they don't lose money on Simmons, why wouldn't they hold on until they find a deal they like.

On the other side, Simmons is losing money and probably also losing a lot on his next contract too.
Don't see why Sixers should panic, as long as they can keep fining him.

[Flash4thewin]

This is definitely not how I see it. If he doesn't play this year then his value just goes down. Those advocating on holding Simmons indefinitely feels like they just want to "stick it" to Simmons rather then good asset management.

His value has no way to improve. He won't play and even if he does it's plain to see that it wouldn't go very well. And as for the "teams getting desperate" to make his value go up. This discounts the fact that other teams are involved in bidding and can outbid a devalued Simmons quite easily. So how do you get a star with him by holding on to him?

Holding on to him without a realistic way to increase his value is just lunacy to me. There are still decent (albeit not franchise changing packages) out there that you can combine with your own assets to get their star at a later date.

It's not about teams getting desperate it's about the amount of available contracts there are to trade for him. Players that were signed this offseason aren't eligible to be traded until like late December I believe. And there would obviously be a lot more trade possibilities this offseason.

I mean... I guess. It's a fair point about the market opening up and maybe they know something about a deal they have been offered once those contracts become tradeable. But if that is what they are waiting for why fine him? The fine's are just drawing attention to the situation (bringing possible negative value), making Simons look even brattier (bringing possible negative value), and there's a chance you actually force Simons to play again. Him playing again is the worst case scenario since it would destroy team chemistry, he wouldn't be very good and his value would drop.

I keep coming back to the same word with this situation. "Spiteful". It's made me dislike all the parties involved. Rich Paul, Simons, Sixers management, etc. If there was just ONE grown up at this table that made a responsible decision this whole situation could of been avoided. Instead it's turned into a pissing contest.

The grownups are the the 76ers here. They are making him honor his contract. If you don't then you get fined. They are giving him every opportunity to redeem himself while at the same time giving him the rope he needs to hanging himself when the inevitable legal battle to void his contract comes. This is at the end of the day a contractual issue, one party is not honoring it.