Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors

Moderators: cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285, ken6199, Domejandro, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid

4 Questions

Poll ended at Sun May 1, 2022 1:36 am

Q1: Keep the GM
160
23%
Q1: Fire the GM
9
1%
Q2: Keep the coach
157
23%
Q2: Fire the coach
11
2%
Q3: Performed better than expected
145
21%
Q3: Performed as expected
22
3%
Q3: Performed worse than expected
7
1%
Q4: Rising Team
150
22%
Q4: Treadmill Team
29
4%
Q4: Waning Team
7
1%
 
Total votes: 697

Chandan
RealGM
Posts: 18,350
And1: 22,015
Joined: Nov 23, 2017
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#121 » by Chandan » Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:49 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
timO wrote:Didnt understand the trade for Young giving the frp, now they have to pay Young and spurs can catch something at #20 with rookie scale.

They are clear treadmill team
, the unique Rising options is Barnes developing into a star, which is uncertain.


Scottie is 20
Precious is 22
OG is 24
Trent is 23
Banton is 22
Flynn is 23 (though I don't like him).

What's your definition of a treadmill team? They're one of the youngest teams in the league with so much room to grow.


youngest doesnt matter. they are capped out typical mediocre treadmill team. hawks had 4 freaking all stars and blew up for trae young. all their cores is pretty much peaked too their fringe stars will be declining.


I guarantee only 2 of those players will be left on the raptors in 5 years time. So what does it matter if they are young.

Being young doesn't mean anything unless the player is supremely talented. Those are usually the only ones you want to keep anyway. Only one that matters is scottie.
Image
User avatar
OakleyDokely
RealGM
Posts: 35,314
And1: 66,928
Joined: Aug 02, 2008
Location: 416
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#122 » by OakleyDokely » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:13 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:
timO wrote:Didnt understand the trade for Young giving the frp, now they have to pay Young and spurs can catch something at #20 with rookie scale.

They are clear treadmill team, the unique Rising options is Barnes developing into a star, which is uncertain.


The trade for Thad was a trade down. They got the 33rd pick back in return, so they moved down 13 spots.


thats not a trade down. you dont trade 1st for 2nds when you can buy them cash. it shows toronto hates tax.


When was the last time an early 30s pick was traded for cash? It doesn't happen often because those picks are basically late 1sts.

By the way, the Raps paid the tax during their title run. When the team is a contender, they're prepared to be a tax team.
BillNyeBballGuy
Junior
Posts: 474
And1: 576
Joined: Jul 31, 2021

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#123 » by BillNyeBballGuy » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:14 am

Man do I ever love Pascal Siakam. What a warrior!
pipfan
RealGM
Posts: 12,159
And1: 4,159
Joined: Aug 07, 2010

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#124 » by pipfan » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:20 am

Has anyone suggested Siakam for Gobert? Seems to make sense. Imagine the defense with OG/Barnes/Gobert up front
KembaWalker
RealGM
Posts: 11,749
And1: 13,417
Joined: Dec 22, 2011
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#125 » by KembaWalker » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:47 am

Need to sell high on Siakam and FVV. Gotta pick a timeline, and it ain't theirs
Image
User avatar
Arsenal
RealGM
Posts: 16,763
And1: 11,682
Joined: Jun 05, 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#126 » by Arsenal » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:02 am

Treadmill team stuck in no man’s land like Shaq and Chuck said.

No superstars now, none on the horizon. Likely to fall backwards next season ala Hawks and Knicks this year.

Superstars don’t want to come due to extortionate taxes, rabid fans that cheer injuries, and frigid arctic weather.

POBO and coach both rumored to have their bags packed seeking greener pastures.

Overall it’s not looking good…
Chandan
RealGM
Posts: 18,350
And1: 22,015
Joined: Nov 23, 2017
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#127 » by Chandan » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:03 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:
The trade for Thad was a trade down. They got the 33rd pick back in return, so they moved down 13 spots.


thats not a trade down. you dont trade 1st for 2nds when you can buy them cash. it shows toronto hates tax.


they hate repeater tax when it's not a contending era.

No point wasting money when it's Ssiakam and VanVleet at the helm. Fans are suckers anyways they will fill up the seats no matter what product masai puts in there.
Image
User avatar
Mattatron
Veteran
Posts: 2,520
And1: 1,836
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#128 » by Mattatron » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:26 am

Arsenal wrote:Treadmill team stuck in no man’s land like Shaq and Chuck said.

No superstars now, none on the horizon. Likely to fall backwards next season ala Hawks and Knicks this year.

Superstars don’t want to come due to extortionate taxes, rabid fans that cheer injuries, and frigid arctic weather.

POBO and coach both rumored to have their bags packed seeking greener pastures.

Overall it’s not looking good…



bad take. you know the hawks and knicks benefitted the most that the raptors sucked last year in Tampa, when every other team played in front of their fanbases. raptors decided at asb to tank the last half and get a pick, cause the situation was bad anyways in Tampa, looking from outside it was more of an vacation year for them after 6 years of contending and a championship run plus the defending run. raptors are back in the mix, could be a HCA team in 1-2 years, when good decisions will be made by Masai.

bitter sixer lol
User avatar
Arsenal
RealGM
Posts: 16,763
And1: 11,682
Joined: Jun 05, 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#129 » by Arsenal » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:32 am

Klaw22 wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Treadmill team stuck in no man’s land like Shaq and Chuck said.

No superstars now, none on the horizon. Likely to fall backwards next season ala Hawks and Knicks this year.

Superstars don’t want to come due to extortionate taxes, rabid fans that cheer injuries, and frigid arctic weather.

POBO and coach both rumored to have their bags packed seeking greener pastures.

Overall it’s not looking good…



bad take. you know the hawks and knicks benefitted the most that the raptors sucked last year in Tampa, when every other team played in front of their fanbases. raptors decided at asb to tank the last half and get a pick, cause the situation was bad anyways in Tampa, looking from outside it was more of an vacation year for them after 6 years of contending and a championship run plus the defending run. raptors are back in the mix, could be a HCA team in 1-2 years, when good decisions will be made by Masai.

bitter sixer lol


You talk about leaving Tampa like it’s a good thing. Ironically you’d have far more luck acquiring a superstar there as opposed to frigid toronto.

Treadmill team is the worst place to be.
User avatar
Mattatron
Veteran
Posts: 2,520
And1: 1,836
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#130 » by Mattatron » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:53 am

Arsenal wrote:
Klaw22 wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Treadmill team stuck in no man’s land like Shaq and Chuck said.

No superstars now, none on the horizon. Likely to fall backwards next season ala Hawks and Knicks this year.

Superstars don’t want to come due to extortionate taxes, rabid fans that cheer injuries, and frigid arctic weather.

POBO and coach both rumored to have their bags packed seeking greener pastures.

Overall it’s not looking good…



bad take. you know the hawks and knicks benefitted the most that the raptors sucked last year in Tampa, when every other team played in front of their fanbases. raptors decided at asb to tank the last half and get a pick, cause the situation was bad anyways in Tampa, looking from outside it was more of an vacation year for them after 6 years of contending and a championship run plus the defending run. raptors are back in the mix, could be a HCA team in 1-2 years, when good decisions will be made by Masai.

bitter sixer lol


You talk about leaving Tampa like it’s a good thing. Ironically you’d have far more luck acquiring a superstar there as opposed to frigid toronto.

Treadmill team is the worst place to be.



far away from being a treadmill team. that sabots, oladipo pacers, hawks young team is the definition of a being a treadmill team.
what are the Sixers ? contending ? definitely not lol
User avatar
OakleyDokely
RealGM
Posts: 35,314
And1: 66,928
Joined: Aug 02, 2008
Location: 416
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#131 » by OakleyDokely » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:57 am

Arsenal wrote:Treadmill team stuck in no man’s land like Shaq and Chuck said.

No superstars now, none on the horizon. Likely to fall backwards next season ala Hawks and Knicks this year.

Superstars don’t want to come due to extortionate taxes, rabid fans that cheer injuries, and frigid arctic weather.

POBO and coach both rumored to have their bags packed seeking greener pastures.

Overall it’s not looking good…


If only the Raps had the ROY in one of the strongest drafts...

You know, I always go to Philly for the weather. Just beautiful during the basketball season.
User avatar
Mattatron
Veteran
Posts: 2,520
And1: 1,836
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#132 » by Mattatron » Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:00 pm

Klaw22 wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Klaw22 wrote:

bad take. you know the hawks and knicks benefitted the most that the raptors sucked last year in Tampa, when every other team played in front of their fanbases. raptors decided at asb to tank the last half and get a pick, cause the situation was bad anyways in Tampa, looking from outside it was more of an vacation year for them after 6 years of contending and a championship run plus the defending run. raptors are back in the mix, could be a HCA team in 1-2 years, when good decisions will be made by Masai.

bitter sixer lol


You talk about leaving Tampa like it’s a good thing. Ironically you’d have far more luck acquiring a superstar there as opposed to frigid toronto.

Treadmill team is the worst place to be.



far away from being a treadmill team. that sabots, oladipo pacers, hawks young team is the definition of a being a treadmill team.
what are the Sixers ? contending ? definitely not lol


sixers and raptors are equal, Sixers maybe with embiid bit more blessed, but after that every raptor tops the Sixers.

future is not bright for you guys, with harden going to be a fa, well tbh its would be good to lose him, but it hurts bit more bc of the assets you gave up, cause I predict embiid will leave 2023 and philly will stuck in a rebuild for years coming. good ol Hinkie days with morey lol
nikster
RealGM
Posts: 14,359
And1: 12,843
Joined: Sep 08, 2013

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#133 » by nikster » Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:51 pm

Arsenal wrote:
Klaw22 wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Treadmill team stuck in no man’s land like Shaq and Chuck said.

No superstars now, none on the horizon. Likely to fall backwards next season ala Hawks and Knicks this year.

Superstars don’t want to come due to extortionate taxes, rabid fans that cheer injuries, and frigid arctic weather.

POBO and coach both rumored to have their bags packed seeking greener pastures.

Overall it’s not looking good…



bad take. you know the hawks and knicks benefitted the most that the raptors sucked last year in Tampa, when every other team played in front of their fanbases. raptors decided at asb to tank the last half and get a pick, cause the situation was bad anyways in Tampa, looking from outside it was more of an vacation year for them after 6 years of contending and a championship run plus the defending run. raptors are back in the mix, could be a HCA team in 1-2 years, when good decisions will be made by Masai.

bitter sixer lol


You talk about leaving Tampa like it’s a good thing. Ironically you’d have far more luck acquiring a superstar there as opposed to frigid toronto.

Treadmill team is the worst place to be.

A tread mill team, you mean a team that hasn't gotten out of the 2nd round with their core for 5 straight years, will be overpaying $90 million dollars for 2 players on the wrong side of 30 after this season, only have one young player on the roster worth keeping and that owns only one first round pick the next 3 years?
User avatar
Johnny Bball
RealGM
Posts: 53,578
And1: 57,294
Joined: Feb 01, 2015
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#134 » by Johnny Bball » Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:10 pm

Gasolina wrote:
Scottie4Bro wrote:Dunno what the plan is long-term. I don't think you can win a chip with this core. Barnes will mature into a fantastic player one day but you will need another elite prospect next to him, soon.

Either the Raps go all-in next year and do something like a Lillard/Siakam tandem with Barnes, Precious, Boucher, Young etc. supporting or trade one or some of our core to grab that elite prospect to play next to Barnes.

However I think Masai is giving this core another year in incubation to see what happens. Not anticipating major moves this offseason. Earliest by the next deadline.


Dame is absolutely cooked lmao. Giving up a bunch of pieces or draft picks to get some aging, diminutive nodefense chucker would be the best way for your Raptors to lock themselves into a treadmill. Same thing with a guy like Beal, who has never been a winner, is a garbage defender, and who doesn't elevate his teammates because of how much he has to dominate the ball to be effective.

Raptors have a very interesting experiment going with this "longball" strategy, and it already proved capable of punching far above its weight and talent level. The biggest mistake your franchise could make would be to start hedging against that strategy now, so I am utterly baffled when I see some of you guys clamouring for another midget chucker like Dame to put next to Fred, or for some slow-footed 7 footer who is never going to be able to match up against Embiid anyways. It's very reactionary thinking. Fortunately for you, I think your front office is a lot smarter than the team's fans, and they will keep pushing forward with this ahead-of-the-curve style of play.

What the Raptors really need is to develop some more bench pieces so they don't have to grind their top 6 into dust during the regular season, and to wait for the opportunity to go all-in for an elite big forward. Guys in the mold of Giannis, Kawhi, LeBron, Tatum, Brown, PG13, Middleton, Butler, AD, etc. would fit perfectly with the team. Obviously, a few of those guys are untouchable and some others are getting kinda old, but that's the type of player that Toronto needs to become a real contender again. Not some washed point guard, nodefense shooting guard, or overrated garbage big like Myles Turner and Vucevic.


You have no idea how many fans keep posting whining and complaining that we need a big slow centre and small quick guard just to throw it all away. It truly is utterly baffling. And yep, develop, wait, and find that guy is the best path.
User avatar
Johnny Bball
RealGM
Posts: 53,578
And1: 57,294
Joined: Feb 01, 2015
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#135 » by Johnny Bball » Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:22 pm

binjumper wrote:
Flash4thewin wrote:One thing thats not mentioned is taxes. There was a great article on Tax Notes dealing with this issue. At the end of the day a smart Tax Lawyer can only do so much to help offset the tax.


it's also been proven you pay as much taxes in places like Cali.

Image


This chart is bad, it’s within a percentage point after everything is included between CA, NY and Toronto
User avatar
Childs
RealGM
Posts: 12,795
And1: 28,708
Joined: Jun 23, 2010
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#136 » by Childs » Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:32 pm

Arsenal wrote:
Klaw22 wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Treadmill team stuck in no man’s land like Shaq and Chuck said.

No superstars now, none on the horizon. Likely to fall backwards next season ala Hawks and Knicks this year.

Superstars don’t want to come due to extortionate taxes, rabid fans that cheer injuries, and frigid arctic weather.

POBO and coach both rumored to have their bags packed seeking greener pastures.

Overall it’s not looking good…



bad take. you know the hawks and knicks benefitted the most that the raptors sucked last year in Tampa, when every other team played in front of their fanbases. raptors decided at asb to tank the last half and get a pick, cause the situation was bad anyways in Tampa, looking from outside it was more of an vacation year for them after 6 years of contending and a championship run plus the defending run. raptors are back in the mix, could be a HCA team in 1-2 years, when good decisions will be made by Masai.

bitter sixer lol


You talk about leaving Tampa like it’s a good thing. Ironically you’d have far more luck acquiring a superstar there as opposed to frigid toronto.

Treadmill team is the worst place to be.


Isn't treadmill not getting past the 2nd round for 5 years? It's like the Jazz
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,373
And1: 26,375
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#137 » by 76ciology » Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:14 pm

Read on Twitter


Imagine.

Siakam’s FTA increased 2x and is more than what Embiid was averaging.

Total difference of +-12 FTAs (-6 for sixers and +6 for raps)
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
User avatar
PD28
General Manager
Posts: 8,900
And1: 13,963
Joined: Jan 04, 2013
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#138 » by PD28 » Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:33 pm

Childs wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Klaw22 wrote:

bad take. you know the hawks and knicks benefitted the most that the raptors sucked last year in Tampa, when every other team played in front of their fanbases. raptors decided at asb to tank the last half and get a pick, cause the situation was bad anyways in Tampa, looking from outside it was more of an vacation year for them after 6 years of contending and a championship run plus the defending run. raptors are back in the mix, could be a HCA team in 1-2 years, when good decisions will be made by Masai.

bitter sixer lol


You talk about leaving Tampa like it’s a good thing. Ironically you’d have far more luck acquiring a superstar there as opposed to frigid toronto.

Treadmill team is the worst place to be.


Isn't treadmill not getting past the 2nd round for 5 years? It's like the Jazz


Or Philly :lol: . They talk a lot for a franchise that still isn't a true contender.
Image
User avatar
Arsenal
RealGM
Posts: 16,763
And1: 11,682
Joined: Jun 05, 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#139 » by Arsenal » Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:49 pm

nikster wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Klaw22 wrote:

bad take. you know the hawks and knicks benefitted the most that the raptors sucked last year in Tampa, when every other team played in front of their fanbases. raptors decided at asb to tank the last half and get a pick, cause the situation was bad anyways in Tampa, looking from outside it was more of an vacation year for them after 6 years of contending and a championship run plus the defending run. raptors are back in the mix, could be a HCA team in 1-2 years, when good decisions will be made by Masai.

bitter sixer lol


You talk about leaving Tampa like it’s a good thing. Ironically you’d have far more luck acquiring a superstar there as opposed to frigid toronto.

Treadmill team is the worst place to be.

A tread mill team, you mean a team that hasn't gotten out of the 2nd round with their core for 5 straight years, will be overpaying $90 million dollars for 2 players on the wrong side of 30 after this season, only have one young player on the roster worth keeping and that owns only one first round pick the next 3 years?


The topic is the toronto treadmill team, not the Sixers or any other team. All I hear is jealousy and envy of a superior team instead of countering my legitimate and valid points about why toronto is on the road to nowhere.
User avatar
Arsenal
RealGM
Posts: 16,763
And1: 11,682
Joined: Jun 05, 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
 

Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors 

Post#140 » by Arsenal » Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:50 pm

76ciology wrote:
Read on Twitter


Imagine.

Siakam’s FTA increased 2x and is more than what Embiid was averaging.

Total difference of +-12 FTAs (-6 for sixers and +6 for raps)


Refs obviously wanted to keep the far inferior, starless, hustle and grind team in the series by giving them favorable calls for 3 straight games.

Too bad in the end their lack of talent showed through.

Return to The General Board