This board really needs to apologize to Andrew Wiggins

[FNQ]

If wiggins could average 25ppg easily, he would have done so last year when klay was out.

He could, it would just be ugly and an ode to his time in Minnesota.

If Wiggins wanted to average 25 pts, all he'd really need to do is improved his FT% to 75%, and go back to attacking the rim like when he first started here and was looking like he turned a corner with the FTs. Thats how you get him over 20ppg and still have him be effective. Otherwise he's way too scattershot offensively to be a top 2 option. He's a perfect 3rd scoring option, one that provides defense and rebounding as well. Slightly above average in a supplemental offense role, borderline elite defensively,

If it would be ugly and inefficient, that is not "easily" in my book.

I dunno, Monta did it with such ease that it almost looked effortless.. almost as if he didnt care about winning the game at all

But you're talking to a Wiggins' fan, not a Warrior fan about it. Just like a Curry stan, or a Lin stan, or the countless other single player stans that have come through over the years.. Warriors fans care about the 5 on 5 game. Player fans care about how their guy looks. There's not much crossover in things to rationally discuss there

[xdrta+]

That seems at odds with reality. Minny needed him to do that, and he couldn't. Scoring efficiency is a problem for him. He doesn't draw well enough, hit FTs well enough, shoot well enough below the arc to do that at a rate which makes sense, and he isn't aggressive enough. His perimeter shooting has not historically been good enough to support that kind of volume either. He got close to 24 ppg in 2017, of course, so in the strictest sense of it being technically possible if you throw him enough minutes and touches, sure. But it wouldn't be good for team offense.



It suits his skills, and we've seen that he is inappropriate in a higher-volume role, leastwise when asked to create much for himself. It is possible he could handle a higher scoring load as a secondary player, perhaps.



Well that's just violently incorrect. There are obvious flaws in his game. To suggest otherwise is just abdicating attention to reality. And that's fine for Wiggins, there are basically no flawless players. Were he truly flawless, we would have seen him flourishing before now instead of floundering in the role for which he was drafted, but that was evidently not the case.

Minny gave him the green light when he was 19, 20 and 21 years old. He had not the green light the next years(except maybe his last year with Ryan Saunders)
He averaged 17, 20 and 24ppg his first 3 years.
I don't know what people expected from him in such a young age.
He is a better player now, more skilled and better shooter. Players get better with the years and Wiggins is in his prime now.
If the current Wiggins played the same role he had in his young years he would have been unstoppable.
His handles are better and his shooting is better, better decision making, stronger etc.
You judjed him for his whole career based on his 20yo skills

He's doing great at his role but he's also on a max contract to be the 4th scoring option and maybe(?) 4th or 5th best player on the team.

At this point in time, anyone who follows the Warriors knows that Wiggins is the third most valuable player on the team and it's not even close. His salary is irrelevant. You're concerned, perhaps, the Warriors aren't getting their money's worth? Well, they make it up on Poole, who at $2.9M has a claim to the most bang for your buck in the league. Besides, if the Warriors manage to go all the way, they'll get their money's worth from Wiggins many times over.

[G R E Y]

Do we? He failed upwards with a max contract based on unrealized potential, then got traded for salary matching and a pick that was the real lure for GSW (top pick had to be included with him), then landed in the best possible situation for him: great program, strong culture, clearly defined hierarchy in which he fell into a more manageable role, one which required him to not be the lead scorer but to broaden his game, specifically on D.

To his credit he has found the requisite motor and matured to accept it all and put in the effort and flourish, but had he been traded to a team with lesser structure and one that didn't have consequences for his not buying in? Who knows how much he'd have changed. He needed what the GSW brought far more than they needed him initially. Now both are reaping the rewards of his buying in.

[SF_Warriors]

He could, it would just be ugly and an ode to his time in Minnesota.

If Wiggins wanted to average 25 pts, all he'd really need to do is improved his FT% to 75%, and go back to attacking the rim like when he first started here and was looking like he turned a corner with the FTs. Thats how you get him over 20ppg and still have him be effective. Otherwise he's way too scattershot offensively to be a top 2 option. He's a perfect 3rd scoring option, one that provides defense and rebounding as well. Slightly above average in a supplemental offense role, borderline elite defensively,

If it would be ugly and inefficient, that is not "easily" in my book.

I dunno, Monta did it with such ease that it almost looked effortless.. almost as if he didnt care about winning the game at all

But you're talking to a Wiggins' fan, not a Warrior fan about it. Just like a Curry stan, or a Lin stan, or the countless other single player stans that have come through over the years.. Warriors fans care about the 5 on 5 game. Player fans care about how their guy looks. There's not much crossover in things to rationally discuss there

Monta was a better shot creator. Wiggins doesnt have nearly the handle or quickness to get shots up like that.

I mean, if wiggins played over 40mpg on one of the worst teams in the league, it would be plausible for him to average 25ppg. Of course that scenario would be very unlikely to happen which is why easily is not the right word here. Easily means he could do it for many teams. It would have to be the perfect combination of terribleness for it to even have a chance of happening, ergo, not easily done.

[SF_Warriors]

He has a very adequate skill profile taking in to account his athleticism.
If you give him the green light right not he can average 25ppg easily.
I totally disagree that the current role is the role that fits to him.
It is one more role that Wiggins can play. He can play any role you give to him, he really has no flaws in his game.
Near Jordan type athleticism, with good shooting, good decision making, no mistakes and turnovers.
He has not the egoism to demand the ball that is his biggest disappointing characteristic.

If wiggins could average 25ppg easily, he would have done so last year when klay was out.

He had 18.6 points in 14.9 fga per game last year and 48 touches per game.
Nobody can score 25ppg having 48 touches per game. Give prime Jordan 48 touches per game and he will not score more than 20ppg.
Wiggins has always one of the leagues top-10 points per touch average. He scores a lot when he gets the ball

You have to realize he was put into position to succeed and that is why his touches were limited. More usage for a guy like wiggs means more turnovers, tougher shots, more defensive attention since in a scenario where wiggins is averaging 25ppg his teammates are probably some of the worst in the league.

[WolfAddict]

I bought a Wiggins jersey when he was with MIN... I owe him nothing more than that

I still have a pair of Wiggins signature shoes. adidas crazylight 2.5 with a big goofy AW with a Canadian maple leaf inside.

I HAVE THE SAME ONES!!!

[KembaWalker]

Warriors fans aren't happy unless every player on their roster is getting some kind of award or recognition or have all star potential
4 all stars, come back player of the year klay, all defensive team wiggins and gp2, poole and kuminga are future all stars, they even say Moody and WISEMAN are future all star caliber lmao
give it a rest man, you guys are insufferable

[Edrees]

I just admire the Warriors for how they got Wiggins. They just took the best talent they possibly could when they did the S&T for durant and got DLO, then traded DLO for the best possible raw talent anyone was willing to trade for, knowing that all they needed was the talent and their system and coaching would bring the best out of the player. That's exactly how you keep your rebuilding phases short as a NBA organization.

Meaninwhile my lakers let players like randle and Caruso walk without keeping the assets going to get talent back. We could have had an andrew wiggins type player if we traded our talent for SOME kind of value instead of just letting them walk. Ugh.

Why?

Wiggins was terrible in Minnesota.

He changed completely in Golden State. Good for him. Doesn't make what people said about him back then less true.

I mean, unless people said he would couldn't be a great player under a different team and his sucking is not because he was in a bad situation, which some people said back then. It does make it less true.

[rockmanslim]

Man promises 1st wife he'll buy her a Lamborghini.

Before he does, divorces 1st wife, remarries, buys 2nd wife a Honda Civic.

Man to 1st wife: "You really need to apologize to me."

[FNQ]

If it would be ugly and inefficient, that is not "easily" in my book.

I dunno, Monta did it with such ease that it almost looked effortless.. almost as if he didnt care about winning the game at all

But you're talking to a Wiggins' fan, not a Warrior fan about it. Just like a Curry stan, or a Lin stan, or the countless other single player stans that have come through over the years.. Warriors fans care about the 5 on 5 game. Player fans care about how their guy looks. There's not much crossover in things to rationally discuss there

Monta was a better shot creator. Wiggins doesnt have nearly the handle or quickness to get shots up like that.

I mean, if wiggins played over 40mpg on one of the worst teams in the league, it would be plausible for him to average 25ppg. Of course that scenario would be very unlikely to happen which is why easily is not the right word here. Easily means he could do it for many teams. It would have to be the perfect combination of terribleness for it to even have a chance of happening, ergo, not easily done.

I was entirely joking, Monta didnt care about the W, only cared about getting his, because mediocre volume scorers can get 25 any time they want to, as long as no one cares about winning

Also Monta had terrible handles, Wiggins has him there by miles

[FNQ]

GP2 for all defense? Hey that aint a bad idea either. Maybe Looney too

[michaelm]

I dunno, Monta did it with such ease that it almost looked effortless.. almost as if he didnt care about winning the game at all

But you're talking to a Wiggins' fan, not a Warrior fan about it. Just like a Curry stan, or a Lin stan, or the countless other single player stans that have come through over the years.. Warriors fans care about the 5 on 5 game. Player fans care about how their guy looks. There's not much crossover in things to rationally discuss there

Monta was a better shot creator. Wiggins doesnt have nearly the handle or quickness to get shots up like that.

I mean, if wiggins played over 40mpg on one of the worst teams in the league, it would be plausible for him to average 25ppg. Of course that scenario would be very unlikely to happen which is why easily is not the right word here. Easily means he could do it for many teams. It would have to be the perfect combination of terribleness for it to even have a chance of happening, ergo, not easily done.

I was entirely joking, Monta didnt care about the W, only cared about getting his, because mediocre volume scorers can get 25 any time they want to, as long as no one cares about winning

Also Monta had terrible handles, Wiggins has him there by miles

One thing this year at GSW is that Wiggins seems to be a clutch scorer. Like last game, he was very active offensively when Curry and Thompson were bricking their shots and was a major contributor to the half time lead. When the usual suspects got going in the second half he faded out, scoring wise anyway. Pretty good way for him to operate imo.

Of course he wasn’t so good when asked to play Green’s role while Green was put, but I doubt many players in the NBA could play that role.

[LewisnotMiller]

MJ would have won 6 rings with Wiggins and without Pippen, I agree.

Another person underrating him. Jordan would have got 7 rings with Wiggins instead of Pip.

In seriousness he's a good player now. Capable wing starter on a real team. Plays both ends.
In no way is he great

[ILOVEIT]

I've watched Wiggins give Kawhi and LeBron issues defensively. He's literally made Kawhi struggle and has blocked LeBron's shot on a step back. There are maybe 4 defensive players in the league that can do that to super stars. Wiggins is one of them.

Y'all stuck on the Wiggins playing on one of the worse managed teams in the last 20 years. You put a 19 year old on a crap team and, even while he's averaging 20 a night, it ain't going to look great.

Been three years since then folks....catch the hell up.

[Spin Move]

As a KU fan, I am dissapointed in has career, he could have been much better, don't really think he tried to improve after his first few years in Minny, maybe it was bad culture, who knows, but he should have develped more he is SOOOOO athletic.

for the playoffs he is

MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
12 31.9 49.0 39.6 57.1 6.8 1.3 1.1 0.9 2.4 1.4 14.9

With very good defesne.....For a Guy making 10 million, great, for a guy making 31 you would be expecting more. He is a Solid role player.However playing off Steph Poole and to a lesser extent old man Klay he gets easier looks then most. So I don;t think I have been wrong in my assesments of him being overpaid for what he is. Compare him to Marcus Smart who is making less then half as much this year. They are providing similer production (Smart slighlty more). Marcus Smart is a great role player, don;t want to pay him 30 million a year. I don't think many were saying Wiggins can't play at all. I think most were saying he is overpaid for what he brings, which still stands correct.

[cam24thomas]

MJ would have won 6 rings with Wiggins and without Pippen, I agree.

Another person underrating him. Jordan would have got 7 rings with Wiggins instead of Pip.

In seriousness he's a good player now. Capable wing starter on a real team. Plays both ends.
In no way is he great

Well in the 1998 NBA Finals, Pippen averaged 15.7 points, 6.8 rebounds, 4.8 assists, .410 field shooting, and struggled to play defense because of injury, so I think Wiggins could replace Pippen and do better than that

[Crazy-Canuck]

He isnt a max player nor a first option type, so lets get that out of the way. But what really is a max player anyways these days,everyone seems to be getting paid.

People who havent watched the dubs all year will not know the full story, so they will base everything solely on boxscore metrics because its what they have to work with.

People who say he was the same player in minnesota are either stubborn or only boxscore watching.

People forget that when the dubs were torching the league early. It was wiggs that was the second option on offense. When klay returned, jp got hot, dray got hurt, etc.. it was wiggins that kept having to change roles and fill the cracks because no one else could. After dray got hurt, wiggs played that dray role on defense and it wasnt good, but still much better than the options at hand. He sacraficed for wins. He even said it himself, he would love to score more, but the team needs other things more, so he does it.

So instead of volume points, the points he does score have an impact on wins. People will bring up, well hes only 14 ppg in the playoffs. Go back and rewatch those points, i promise u alot of his spurts come on when the team needs it. And when they dont, he focuses on defense and rebounding. Every game minus the blowout.

No apology is needed, but there should bean adjustment on his perception. Hes a damn good player, hes a role player that could do more, but he does whats best for the team. And that doesnt sound like the lazy disappointment or a lockerroom cancer that hes portrayed to be by some.

I always felt he was more a pippen type than a jordan one, and there is nothing wrong with that.

He is going to get paid more than some realize on his next contract, people mentioning 10M, MLE type deals are in for a surprise.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Warriors fans aren't happy unless every player on their roster is getting some kind of award or recognition or have all star potential
4 all stars, come back player of the year klay, all defensive team wiggins and gp2, poole and kuminga are future all stars, they even say Moody and WISEMAN are future all star caliber lmao
give it a rest man, you guys are insufferable

Gotta get Looney some kind of award

[LewisnotMiller]

MJ would have won 6 rings with Wiggins and without Pippen, I agree.

Another person underrating him. Jordan would have got 7 rings with Wiggins instead of Pip.

In seriousness he's a good player now. Capable wing starter on a real team. Plays both ends.
In no way is he great

Well in the 1998 NBA Finals, Pippen averaged 15.7 points, 6.8 rebounds, 4.8 assists, .410 field shooting, and struggled to play defense because of injury, so I think Wiggins could replace Pippen and do better than that

Awww...were not gonna talk seriously about this are we? I thought we were just mucking around.
You'd have to pace adjust the stats. 98 Finals, winning teams were scoring in the 80s. But sure...Wiggins could approximate 98 Pippen. Not so much 93 Pippen though.

Ultimately if there's a serious point here we agree on, I'd see Wiggins as a viable wing on a champion.

[cam24thomas]

Another person underrating him. Jordan would have got 7 rings with Wiggins instead of Pip.

In seriousness he's a good player now. Capable wing starter on a real team. Plays both ends.
In no way is he great

Well in the 1998 NBA Finals, Pippen averaged 15.7 points, 6.8 rebounds, 4.8 assists, .410 field shooting, and struggled to play defense because of injury, so I think Wiggins could replace Pippen and do better than that

Awww...were not gonna talk seriously about this are we? I thought we were just mucking around.
You'd have to pace adjust the stats. 98 Finals, winning teams were scoring in the 80s. But sure...Wiggins could approximate 98 Pippen. Not so much 93 Pippen though.

Ultimately if there's a serious point here we agree on, I'd see Wiggins as a viable wing on a champion.

Also if Wiggins trained against MJ everyday for a decade, he'd become a substantially better player physically and mentally. God knows how weak Pippen would have been if he never trained with MJ