JJ Redick speaks the Truth - 80/90s NBA vs Today

[CobraCommander]

Btw, guys were playing 40+mpg for 82 games every year back then because they were able to just stand around for 80-90% of their playing time.

Dudes nowadays have to cover WAAAY more ground offensively/defensively & guard the entire floor.

The fact that this isn’t obvious to many people is mind boggling.

You are right - but they also CARRY and travel way more often and don’t get touched as much-

[JN61]

Lmao evolutions takes thousands of years every where but in the NBA I guess. It is sad how little young people know about life before them and how little respect they have for it.

Once again there are literally studies out there showing that strength and athleticism is actually declining due to lower testosterone but keep telling yourself lies.

nearly every world record was set in the last 15 years.

I would love to see those studies lol. Seems like a post straight from QAnon.

He is most likely talking about general population and he is 100% right. Average Joe is just far weaker these days than when work was physical.

Doesn't translate to professional sports but general populace is clearly going backwards in terms of muscle training and general conditioning.

[BK_2020]

nearly every world record was set in the last 15 years.

I would love to see those studies lol. Seems like a post straight from QAnon.

He is most likely talking about general population and he is 100% right. Average Joe is just far weaker these days than when work was physical.

Doesn't translate to professional sports but general populace is clearly going backwards in terms of muscle training and general conditioning.

How is he 100% right? What kind of "study" would have measured the average athleticism of a populace in the pre-modern age when everybody was working in the field?

[peZt]

JJ Redick on Get Up calling out Old timers narrative on today's players.

Watch on YouTube

Summary:
JJ was annoyed about NBA players today being inferior to the nostalgic standard set by the media about 80 and 90's players/NBA.

Although the segment is mostly about players complaining, JJ did mention many arguments made by the current media, many of whom covered 80s and 90s NBA.


I totally agree with JJ. Only in the NBA, no other sport where 80 and 90s will always be better than current generation, like evolution doesn't matter.

For example. Drop any of these athletes in their respective sport in the 80s or 90s and everyone will think their Gods.
Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Usain Bolt, Patrick Mahomes, Tyson Fury, George St. Pierre, Connor McGregor, Kumaru Usman, Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, List goes on.

But if you do the same for the NBA, with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kyrie, etc, for some reason they can't play in the 80s or 90s.

Lmao evolutions takes thousands of years every where but in the NBA I guess. It is sad how little young people know about life before them and how little respect they have for it.

Once again there are literally studies out there showing that strength and athleticism is actually declining due to lower testosterone but keep telling yourself lies.

It doesn't take a scientist to see how much more advance athletes are today, with access to modern science etc.
We're not talking about evolution of species, which does take a long time, and is the only valid point of your post.

So these studies pertains to the top athletes we have today right? Not just your average joes correct?

There are no lies here, like I said ONLY in the NBA where 80 and 90s will always be better. You don't really hear that non sense with other sports. Keep living in that nostalgia though, its not a bad place to be, that era of ball was amazing.

It depends on the definition of "more advanced athlete". Are people now more athletic than 30 years ago? No
The reason why some athletes seem to be more athletic or better is simple: Sample Size. When 1,000,000 people played sports 30 years ago (example) and now 10,000,000 people play sports, it's easier to find outliers and freaks among those 9 million people more.
Also yeah training and work ethic. Athletes used to smoke and drink in between training sessions 30 years ago. Now you got nutritionists and advanced training methods.

So yeah athletes now definitely are better than in the past for sports that evolved in that time and didn't decline in popularity. But it's mostly because just more kids have access to those sports

[JN61]

I would love to see those studies lol. Seems like a post straight from QAnon.

He is most likely talking about general population and he is 100% right. Average Joe is just far weaker these days than when work was physical.

Doesn't translate to professional sports but general populace is clearly going backwards in terms of muscle training and general conditioning.

How is he 100% right? What kind of "study" would have measured the average athleticism of a populace in the pre-modern age when everybody was working in the field?

I assume you live in USA? Have you looked at office workers next to you or class mates next to you. Fair to say many of them are over weight? How many were overweight 50+ years ago?

[Blame Rasho]

Tyson Fury would get killed in the 80s or 90s. Jeez. Boxing is one sport where the skills needed to excel esp at the heavyweight division has regressed significantly.

[Sothron]

I have watched the NBA faithfully since 1979. The rules have changed so drastically since the 80/90 eras that there is no point in comparing them IMO. I believe as a pure sport was better in those eras because you had balance between low post play, three point shooting and defense. But as far as the player skill levels go...it is impossible to make me think that modern players couldn't play in that era.

They would have to adjust to those rules but they would be fine. Great players would be great in any era. Saying modern players can't compare to older players is IMO silly. We advance as a sport. The training and regimen routines of players and teams are far more advanced than they were back then. That's not a knock on the older era. You don't know what you don't know. But at the same time ignoring the advances in the sport since then and the improvement of the NBA player in general in athletic ability and skill level is foolish.

[The Rebel]

Guys are still playing at a high level today into their mid/late 30s. And not just in basketball, but in every sport.

You guys really do not know **** about sport history do you?

Look up Tree Rollins, Kareem, and others they played as long as anybody in the league today and more minutes as well.

Gordie Howe was 52 when he retired.

Nolan Ryan played 27 years.


Literally the only guys playing longer today are NFL quarterbacks, because you can no longer hit them.

Cmon man, Rafael nadal just won the french open. He is 36, with a bad foot.
Messi and Ronaldo are still tops in football, and they are past the normal prime of football players.

Back to basketball.
What about LeBron? Average 30 as a 37 year old.
PJ Tucker guarding Tatum and Brown. Al Horford, Chris Paul, these guys are beyond 35.

We get it gramps, you love your nostalgia, want us to get off your lawn?

Ah personal attacks since you have no other argument, things never change. Jordan was considerably better at 36 then Lebron was. Hell Lebron was losing to Duncan when Duncan was 37. So once again, reality is that some guys have played into their late 30s for decades.

[MavfanAus]

Drop Ultimate Warrior, Mr Perfect or Demolition in todays weak sauce wrestling and it would end up in a blood bath.

True about Warrior. He couldn't work a match to save his life, so it was a bloodbath in any era with that guy.

[The Rebel]

JJ is just stanning his era, much like the old guys he picks fights with for clicks stan theirs. Flip side of the same coin.

I do find it hilarious how people always jump in and claim that "evolution" and "genetics" prove that this era is better than the 90s though
People wanna believe so bad that their era is the best they'll tell themselves anything even if they've no real clue how genetics or evolution work.

Not proving todays era is better than 80/90s.
Trying to highlight media's nostalgic narrative that no players after 80/90s will ever be better than that era.
And this ONLY happens to basketball, no other sport.

In terms of Genetics and evolution.
Here's an example.
Karl Malone vs LeBron James.
Just something to think about.

Here something to think about, Malone was just as good as Lebron getting down the lane, while only being allowed 1 1/2 steps and forces to dribble correctly. So are you sure that Lebron is better or did the rule changes make him better?

[prophet_of_rage]

JJ Redick on Get Up calling out Old timers narrative on today's players.

Watch on YouTube

Summary:
JJ was annoyed about NBA players today being inferior to the nostalgic standard set by the media about 80 and 90's players/NBA.

Although the segment is mostly about players complaining, JJ did mention many arguments made by the current media, many of whom covered 80s and 90s NBA.


I totally agree with JJ. Only in the NBA, no other sport where 80 and 90s will always be better than current generation, like evolution doesn't matter.

For example. Drop any of these athletes in their respective sport in the 80s or 90s and everyone will think their Gods.
Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Usain Bolt, Patrick Mahomes, Tyson Fury, George St. Pierre, Connor McGregor, Kumaru Usman, Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, List goes on.

But if you do the same for the NBA, with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kyrie, etc, for some reason they can't play in the 80s or 90s.

Lmao evolutions takes thousands of years every where but in the NBA I guess. It is sad how little young people know about life before them and how little respect they have for it.

Once again there are literally studies out there showing that strength and athleticism is actually declining due to lower testosterone but keep telling yourself lies.

In pro athletes who take high and other supplements?

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[The Rebel]

nearly every world record was set in the last 15 years.

I would love to see those studies lol. Seems like a post straight from QAnon.

He is most likely talking about general population and he is 100% right. Average Joe is just far weaker these days than when work was physical.

Doesn't translate to professional sports but general populace is clearly going backwards in terms of muscle training and general conditioning.

I posted 2 articles and a link to a study directly, no where does any of them make a caveat that professional athletes are an exception. So let's see your proof.

[prophet_of_rage]

JJ is just stanning his era, much like the old guys he picks fights with for clicks stan theirs. Flip side of the same coin.

I do find it hilarious how people always jump in and claim that "evolution" and "genetics" prove that this era is better than the 90s though
People wanna believe so bad that their era is the best they'll tell themselves anything even if they've no real clue how genetics or evolution work.

The 90s wasn't good. It was the expansion era. Games were low scoring not just because of defence but because of the isolation game.

The sta0rs shone brightly over their comp because the gap was bigger than it was in the 80s.

It's the 7th to 15th man where the difference shows up. Do you think a Steve Kerr could be first guard off the bench today?

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[The Rebel]

I would love to see those studies lol. Seems like a post straight from QAnon.

He is most likely talking about general population and he is 100% right. Average Joe is just far weaker these days than when work was physical.

Doesn't translate to professional sports but general populace is clearly going backwards in terms of muscle training and general conditioning.

How is he 100% right? What kind of "study" would have measured the average athleticism of a populace in the pre-modern age when everybody was working in the field?

If you read the studies and links I posted, the drop started in the 80s and continues today.

[The Rebel]

JJ Redick on Get Up calling out Old timers narrative on today's players.

Watch on YouTube

Summary:
JJ was annoyed about NBA players today being inferior to the nostalgic standard set by the media about 80 and 90's players/NBA.

Although the segment is mostly about players complaining, JJ did mention many arguments made by the current media, many of whom covered 80s and 90s NBA.


I totally agree with JJ. Only in the NBA, no other sport where 80 and 90s will always be better than current generation, like evolution doesn't matter.

For example. Drop any of these athletes in their respective sport in the 80s or 90s and everyone will think their Gods.
Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Usain Bolt, Patrick Mahomes, Tyson Fury, George St. Pierre, Connor McGregor, Kumaru Usman, Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, List goes on.

But if you do the same for the NBA, with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kyrie, etc, for some reason they can't play in the 80s or 90s.

Lmao evolutions takes thousands of years every where but in the NBA I guess. It is sad how little young people know about life before them and how little respect they have for it.

Once again there are literally studies out there showing that strength and athleticism is actually declining due to lower testosterone but keep telling yourself lies.

In pro athletes who take high and other supplements?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

The studies say all men, due to changes in our food and nutrition, but I am sure you guys have something saying that athletes are excluded?

[prophet_of_rage]

Lmao evolutions takes thousands of years every where but in the NBA I guess. It is sad how little young people know about life before them and how little respect they have for it.

Once again there are literally studies out there showing that strength and athleticism is actually declining due to lower testosterone but keep telling yourself lies.

Athletes are way fitter today than in past generations due to advances in sports and nutrition sciences. Medical procedures for injuries have also improved.

Medicine has improved, but you are going to have to explain way fitter when guys are crying about playing 65 games 30 mpg when a majority of players used to be able to play 82 games and 40 mpg.

They play faster and harder with more changes in direction and shifter moves that put more pressure on their legs.

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[prophet_of_rage]

I don't think that much has changed since the 80s and 90s. Stars of that era would still be stars today, and vice versa. JJ Redick is a modern day Tim Legler.

Yes, but they would be stars in different games. Imagine a league with hand checking and no flagrant fouls, no zone defenses, with palming prohibited, a league with players like Jeff Ruland, Rick Mahorn and Moses Malone who would be happy to take hour head off when you went down the lane. Imagine a league in which the three point shot was viewed as a fad and coaches discouraged players from taking it.

Those are just some of the differences. It's like comparing players in baseball's dead ball era with players who came after 1921.

I was referring to speed, athleticism, etc over 20-30 years. Evolution takes a lot longer than that. But I recognize your point on the rule changes. However, the game is still similar in more ways, and if you drop a prime Shaq, or Kareem in today's game they would adjust just fine. Likewise, if you put KD in the 80s, he would be a superstar.

Right. Reggie Miller was a superstar in the 90s. How would KD not be?

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[prophet_of_rage]

JJ sounded like a pompous jerk here with his constant interruption and logical fallacies. As much as I love to dig at SAS's loud mouth ass, this was just JJ acting like a dick here. Nor was he even correct about almost anything here.

What logical fallacies did he use? It’s just a fact that players are better, faster, and more skilled than players in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

I would always tell people go look at a replay of one the Celtics or Lakers game from the 80s. You d be surprised how slow the pace is and how much less impressive the gameplay was back then.

This is not taking anything away from the players that paved the way in the early stages of the NBA but this constant lamenting about how the 80s and 90s were tougher to play in is just silly. People like LeBron and Durant would shred the competition even more so than they are in this era.

Thank you. Imagine isolating Lebron in the midpoint 30 times a game with a help defender forced to be two areas away because of the illegal defence rules.

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[prophet_of_rage]

Hes right.

Genetics, training advancements, globalisation, population growth, analytics etc etc have resulted in much deeper, much better players.

He’s also right about nobody else in football, baseball, etc., talking about how the ‘80s and ‘90s were better. It’s only in basketball to this degree. And there’s a reason for that—a certain player who played in both decades no matter what always had to be the greatest and the columnists and broadcasters are part of a group who supports and feeds into this. And before anybody says anything about my age, I’m 45 and watched Jordan growing up.

You're right, you know. This is all about the Jordan industrial complex. He dominated an expansion era and didn't win until the 90s talent dilution where he led the deepest team against mostly single star teams.

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[prophet_of_rage]

Hes right.

Genetics

Genetics: Evolution doesn't occur nearly as fast as you think.

training advancements, analytics

When you're comparing Player A to Player B, you adjust for environmental factors. A Kareem born in 1998 would take advantage of those things. A Durant born in 1960 would not be able to utilize.


If you don't believe in adjusting for environmental factors what you're really saying is Give Player A all of the advantages of the 21st Century and they'll be better than Player B born in the 1960s which is true but doesn't tell you anything.

Tim Duncan was able to maintain his effectiveness deep into the middle teens despite his athleticism being gone, and haven't spent his youth developing skills that aren't quite as valuable today. The reason he was able to do so is because humans are adaptable and will respond, given their respective abilities.

If you have any interest to figure out how good Oscar Robertson would be today you have to ask yourself questions like:

1. What would his handle look like if he grew up in the current era?
2. How much could his shot improve with modern shooting coaches?
3. How much would PEDs help him?
4. How would modern sneakers that make it safer to jump change his game?

If you're not, you really aren't doing analysis.

globalisation, population growth

These are two the fair questions. The US African American population (non African American, American players are basically gone) was 26.5 million in 1980, 34.6 million in 2000 and 41.1 million today. That is a big change making the potential talent deeper. International is obviously a huge change.

You should also factor in things like childhood obesity which reduces the talent pool. But overall I strongly suspect pool is deeper today

The talent pool is so deep that certain populations have fallen out of the race entirely.

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