Eurobasket 2022 Finals : SPAIN are European champions!!!

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Giannis was probably the best player of the tournament. Which only emphasizes how poor overall was the talent level of the rest of the team.

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Greece needs a better/younger PG, they will win this if they can get an NBA level PG developed during Giannis prime years.

[jk31]

i am just amazed... wow.... when I bought the Tickets for the final weekend (semi Finals and Finals) i never thought that i will be wearing my germany Jersey and singing the National anthem at least in the semi final.

this is the best german Team that i have ever seen. yes, Dirk is by far the best we ever had, but this is just so deep. 4-6 guys Know how to score when in doubt and everyone hustles their ass of and plays for each other. Just wow. what a Statement.

And still missing Kleber, Mo Wagner and Hartenstein lol. Though the current players have shown more grit though.

Still props to Dirk for telling German youth basketball that it sucked. That's when things changed.

it Change when they somewhat reverted or limited their opening of the BBL to foreign players. when they started to Mandate that a roster needs to have x amount of german players then Clubs needed to develop german youngsters. simultaneously they started the u16 Bundesliga (jbbl) and the u19 Bundesliga (nbbl). this Was some years ago but now, years later, you See the effect. we won the Albert Schweitzer tournament (inofficial u18 World championship) two Times in a row the last time it Took place. the Good youth work trascends to adult sports. we have as many nba and euroleague players in germany as we never had before. even when several of our best players (hartenstein, kleber, wagner, bonga, (zipser), pleiss,...) are Not playing (for what ever valid or Not valid reason) we still feature a squad with Lots of Good Talent.

[Mirotic12]

The end of Greece in this tournament..........

1. Nick Calathes, Tyler Dorsey, and Kostas Sloukas are an incredibly embarrassing indictment on what has happened to Greek national team basketball guard play since Nikos Zisis and Vassilis Spanoulis retired.........

Greece's national team was always credited with having the best guards in Europe over like a 30 year period.....

80s/90s

Nikos Galis / Panagiotis Giannakis

2000s

Theo Papaloukas / Dimitris Diamantidis
&
Vassilis Spanoulis / Nikos Zisis

2010-2015

Vassilis Spanoulis / Nikos Zisis

These current new age Greek guards (Dorsey/Sloukas/Calathes) are so much worse than the previous standard of Greek guards that it's hard to even put it into proper words to describe it. Nikos Zisis was the worst player out of Greece's four main guards from the 2000s era, and even he was like, at a minimum, 10 times better than players like Dorsey, Sloukas, and Calathes.

The fact that the Mavs signed Tyler Dorsey is just more proof of how absurdly overrated the NBA is. Dorsey's entire contribution to a basketball team is being able to maybe hit 4 out of 10 wide open 3 point shots, and despite being a guard, not being able to pass, dribble, create his own shot, create for others, run pick and roll - literally do anything else on offense. And his defense is beyond atrocious.

Nick Calathes is the worst shooter at the guard position that the EuroLeague has ever seen, yet this insanely overrated player keeps getting on Greece's national teams, and keeps getting major minutes. It's ridiculous, there are like 10 better shooters than him on every single team in the Greek national domestic league. Calathes is also extremely overrated as a defensive player. The idea that he's anything more than just a slightly above average defender, just came from trolling PAO fans.

Kostas Sloukas continues to play "point guard" for the Greek NT, when he has almost zero point guard skills, other than dribbling. To be fair, he is an A1 level ball handler for any level, but he can't pass well enough to play point guard, can't run pick and roll well enough to play point guard, has zero ability to properly manage an offense, can't properly control a game's flow, can't properly control a team's offensive rhythm, cant' properly set and dictate the game's pace and tempo, etc. He's also the current biggest choker of any player in the entire EuroLeague, and he's possibly the worst defender at the point guard position in the entire EuroLeague....

Yep, what a great guard selection by the genius Greek coaches, yet again.

[Nuntius]

Well, Germany was magnificent. They crushed us and they deserved to advance.

[Mirotic12]

continued:

2. That brings us to the Greek head coach, Dimitris Itoudis.......

This guy got totally exposed in this FIBA tournament. He selected three crap players (Dorsey/Calathes/Sloukas) to play at the guard spots. The offense either played as a team, and Giannis was useless on offense, like in previous FIBA tournaments, or the offense revolved around Giannis, and just let Giannis do whatever he wanted to, and to play hero video game ball all the time, which of course, was not going to work the instant that they played against an actual good team. But hey, at least Giannis got to stat pad against bad teams.....maybe that helps make up for his horrific second half in the game against Germany. Not really though, unless it's just how the NBA only fans view it.

Itoudis continued to play Nick Calathes and Giannis together in the same lineup......these may indeed be the two worst shooters in the entire EuroBasket tournament, and yet this clown of a supposed "elite European coach", kept playing them in the same freaking lineup together...yes, let's play the possibly worst two shooters in the whole EuroBasket tournament together, on the floor at the same time - what an absolutely brilliant coaching strategy.

3. The Bucks assistants / helpers......

Did they actually think that playing NBA style basketball on offense and defense would work against any actually good European national team? The EuroBasket is an actual serious competitive sport. It's not the fake entertainment flying circus show that the NBA is. All the playing the NBA Milwaukee Bucks' style of Giannis offense, and switch everything defense did for Greece, was pad Giannis' stats. I mean seriously, hero offensive ball from Giannis in FIBA EuroBasket, where they actually allow the other team to play defense? It's not the NBA, where playing defense is banned. The softer than butter, softer than Charmin, switch everything NBA style defense in FIBA EuroBasket, where the game is like 50 times more physical than the NBA? Again, it's not the NBA, where actually playing defense is banned.

That softer than butter, NBA switch everything nonsense only works in the NBA, because the NBA is the softest, pansiest, candiest, pro level basketball competition in the world. To think that you can just endlessly switch everything against good European FIBA teams is absolutely nuts. These NBA coaches really are clueless about how soft and fake the NBA is, due to its rules and reffing. I assume that Itoudis had to have been following the Bucks defensive plan, with the switch everything, all the time defense. Regardless, Itoudis and the Bucks assistant, both look like clowns, for thinking that would work at a real basketball competition, where they actually allow defense to be played, and actually allow physical play to take place.

4. Giannis......

It's simple, FIBA Giannis once again proved that the NBA is overrated to a ludicrous degree, and that it's really just a fake entertainment show, and not a real serious sports competition. From the moment that a good European national team (Germany), decided to play real defense (the 2nd half), we saw the same clueless in the half court on offense, zero offensive skills, can't shoot, bad decision making, bad shot taking, free throw missing, bad foul making, turnover prone, terrible team defense playing, and all around choking Giannis, that we had seen in the previous five FIBA tournaments that he had played in before this one. The blatant unsportsmanlike 2 foul that got him ejected was a new, nice added touch though....

[Turk Nowitzki]

If I've learned anything from watching these games it's that the notion that FIBA basketball is some vastly superior product to the NBA could not be more wrong. They treated these games like NBA players treat playoff games, I saw no discernible difference.

It must've been tough to watch Greece win all these games with Giannis dominanting before this one, not being able to fire off those posts you were so clearly dying to write.

[Bob8]

Giannis was probably the best player of the tournament. Which only emphasizes how poor overall was the talent level of the rest of the team.

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Not in Fiba competition for sure. Luka is the king there.

[Mavrelous]

The end of Greece in this tournament..........

1. Nick Calathes, Tyler Dorsey, and Kostas Sloukas are an incredibly embarrassing indictment on what has happened to Greek national team basketball guard play since Nikos Zisis and Vassilis Spanoulis retired.........

Greece's national team was always credited with having the best guards in Europe over like a 30 year period.....

80s/90s

Nikos Galis / Panagiotis Giannakis

2000s

Theo Papaloukas / Dimitris Diamantidis
&
Vassilis Spanoulis / Nikos Zisis

2010-2015

Vassilis Spanoulis / Nikos Zisis

These current new age Greek guards (Dorsey/Sloukas/Calathes) are so much worse than the previous standard of Greek guards that it's hard to even put it into proper words to describe it. Nikos Zisis was the worst player out of Greece's four main guards from the 2000s era, and even he was like, at a minimum, 10 times better than players like Dorsey, Sloukas, and Calathes.

The fact that the Mavs signed Tyler Dorsey is just more proof of how absurdly overrated the NBA is. Dorsey's entire contribution to a basketball team is being able to maybe hit 4 out of 10 wide open 3 point shots, and despite being a guard, not being able to pass, dribble, create his own shot, create for others, run pick and roll - literally do anything else on offense. And his defense is beyond atrocious.

Nick Calathes is the worst shooter at the guard position that the EuroLeague has ever seen, yet this insanely overrated player keeps getting on Greece's national teams, and keeps getting major minutes. It's ridiculous, there are like 10 better shooters than him on every single team in the Greek national domestic league. Calathes is also extremely overrated as a defensive player. The idea that he's anything more than just a slightly above average defender, just came from trolling PAO fans.

Kostas Sloukas continues to play "point guard" for the Greek NT, when he has almost zero point guard skills, other than dribbling. To be fair, he is an A1 level ball handler for any level, but he can't pass well enough to play point guard, can't run pick and roll well enough to play point guard, has zero ability to properly manage an offense, can't properly control a game's flow, can't properly control a team's offensive rhythm, cant' properly set and dictate the game's pace and tempo, etc. He's also the current biggest choker of any player in the entire EuroLeague, and he's possibly the worst defender at the point guard position in the entire EuroLeague....

Yep, what a great guard selection by the genius Greek coaches, yet again.

You acknowledge the huge drop off of guard play in Greece, and dump on Giannis? Calathes is a disaster, Dorsey is undersized shooter and Sloukas is a bench player, this is the reason Greece failed, Giannis is the reason they didn't fail earlier, and it took crazy shooting from the Germans to oust them.
Develop better guards...

[lambchop]

i am just amazed... wow.... when I bought the Tickets for the final weekend (semi Finals and Finals) i never thought that i will be wearing my germany Jersey and singing the National anthem at least in the semi final.

this is the best german Team that i have ever seen. yes, Dirk is by far the best we ever had, but this is just so deep. 4-6 guys Know how to score when in doubt and everyone hustles their ass of and plays for each other. Just wow. what a Statement.

And still missing Kleber, Mo Wagner and Hartenstein lol. Though the current players have shown more grit though.

Still props to Dirk for telling German youth basketball that it sucked. That's when things changed.

it Change when they somewhat reverted or limited their opening of the BBL to foreign players. when they started to Mandate that a roster needs to have x amount of german players then Clubs needed to develop german youngsters. simultaneously they started the u16 Bundesliga (jbbl) and the u19 Bundesliga (nbbl). this Was some years ago but now, years later, you See the effect. we won the Albert Schweitzer tournament (inofficial u18 World championship) two Times in a row the last time it Took place. the Good youth work trascends to adult sports. we have as many nba and euroleague players in germany as we never had before. even when several of our best players (hartenstein, kleber, wagner, bonga, (zipser), pleiss,...) are Not playing (for what ever valid or Not valid reason) we still feature a squad with Lots of Good Talent.

Yea you're right that mandate was actually the key. I think players really take that next step when they get minutes in the German pro leagues "by default". Practicising with and playing against pros is simply the best thing that a young player can do.

To me the albert schweitzer thing is kinda meaningless because those same German U18 teams lose in the quarter finals of U18 eurobasket or don't even make it to the quarterfinals, despite winning the "inofficial world championship". Germany's U16 team is even in group B where countries like Portugal and Switzerland play.

But that pro mandate has been a true blessing for German basketball and helps German kids separate themselves from other kids their age because their getting legit pro minutes. Some even get Eurocup or Euroleague minutes .

[Mirotic12]

You acknowledge the huge drop off of guard play in Greece, and dump on Giannis? Calathes is a disaster, Dorsey is undersized shooter and Sloukas is a bench player, this is the reason Greece failed, Giannis is the reason they didn't fail earlier, and it took crazy shooting from the Germans to oust them.
Develop better guards...

It isn't just the fault of Greece's guards. The coaches and Giannis are very much to blame also.

Dimitris Diamantidis, Vassilis Spanoulis, and Theo Papaloukas won medals with less talented Greek teams than this one that Giannis had. Spanoulis won a medal with a Greek team with not even 1/4 of the talent that Giannis had in this team.

And Giannis had a disaster second half against Germany. Choke doesn't even begin to describe it. His 3rd quarter was possibly the worst quarter of basketball in an important game, of any supposed great player in the history of the sport of basketball.

Any claim that Giannis is without blame, after how poorly he played in the second half is beyond a ludicrous take. Giannis had one of the worst halves of basketball, in an elimination FIBA game, that any great player ever had in history. Very possibly, and likely, it was THE worst ever. Not only did Giannis decide to completely take off 15 whole minutes of game time on offense, maybe because his conditioning is below average, but he was also absolutely horrific on defense. His man defense and team defense in that second half was so awful, that it was astonishing, considering this is a player that won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year award. Giannis would have needed to up his defensive play about three levels, to even near the level of below average.

Quite frankly, that second half was Giannis' most embarrassing performance yet in FIBA tournaments. And that's really quite an accomplishment, considering how horrific his 2016 performance against Croatia, and his 2019 performance against Brazil were. But that second half set a new level of disappointment.

If I've learned anything from watching these games it's that the notion that FIBA basketball is some vastly superior product to the NBA could not be more wrong. They treated these games like NBA players treat playoff games, I saw no discernible difference.

It must've been tough to watch Greece win 9 straight with Giannis dominanting games before you could unload that post you were so clearly dying to write.

9 straight? Giannis played a total of 6 games in the whole tournament.

[Turk Nowitzki]

My fault, I don't know where my brain got that number from. Point stands that Giannis played a lot of fantastic basketball as did many of his teammates over the course of the tournament.

[Statlanta]

Giannis shouldn't have been ejected man. That call was soft.

[jk31]

But that pro mandate has been a true blessing for German basketball and helps German kids separate themselves from other kids their age because their getting legit pro minutes. Some even get Eurocup or Euroleague minutes .

Exactly. It's no wonder that Franz Wagner already shines in pro basketball, both in the NBA and in the current EuroBasket. Before he went to college, he already played pro ball in Berlin and already saw some minutes both in the Bundesliga and the EuroCup. Helps a lot to get used to playing at a high level against high talent at a young age.

[Bergmaniac]

You acknowledge the huge drop off of guard play in Greece, and dump on Giannis? Calathes is a disaster, Dorsey is undersized shooter and Sloukas is a bench player, this is the reason Greece failed, Giannis is the reason they didn't fail earlier, and it took crazy shooting from the Germans to oust them.
Develop better guards...

It isn't just the fault of Greece's guards. The coaches and Giannis are very much to blame also.

Dimitris Diamantidis, Vassilis Spanoulis, and Theo Papaloukas won medals with less talented Greek teams than this one that Giannis had. Spanoulis won a medal with a Greek team with not even 1/4 of the talent that Giannis had in this team.

And Giannis had a disaster second half against Germany. Choke doesn't even begin to describe it. His 3rd quarter was possibly the worst quarter of basketball in an important game, of any supposed great player in the history of the sport of basketball.

Any claim that Giannis is without blame, after how poorly he played in the second half is beyond a ludicrous take. Giannis had one of the worst halves of basketball, in an elimination FIBA game, that any great player ever had in history. Very possibly, and likely, it was THE worst ever. Not only did Giannis decide to completely take off 15 whole minutes of game time on offense, maybe because his conditioning is below average, but he was also absolutely horrific on defense. His man defense and team defense in that second half was so awful, that it was astonishing, considering this is a player that won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year award. Giannis would have needed to up his defensive play about three levels, to even near the level of below average.

Have you ever written a post which doesn't contain an absurd over the top exaggeration like the bolded ones?

[SOUL]

Giannis shouldn't have been ejected man. That call was soft.

That's an ejection in any league. You can't clothesarm someone's head even if you didn't do it on purpose.

[Mirotic12]

You acknowledge the huge drop off of guard play in Greece, and dump on Giannis? Calathes is a disaster, Dorsey is undersized shooter and Sloukas is a bench player, this is the reason Greece failed, Giannis is the reason they didn't fail earlier, and it took crazy shooting from the Germans to oust them.
Develop better guards...

It isn't just the fault of Greece's guards. The coaches and Giannis are very much to blame also.

Dimitris Diamantidis, Vassilis Spanoulis, and Theo Papaloukas won medals with less talented Greek teams than this one that Giannis had. Spanoulis won a medal with a Greek team with not even 1/4 of the talent that Giannis had in this team.

And Giannis had a disaster second half against Germany. Choke doesn't even begin to describe it. His 3rd quarter was possibly the worst quarter of basketball in an important game, of any supposed great player in the history of the sport of basketball.

Any claim that Giannis is without blame, after how poorly he played in the second half is beyond a ludicrous take. Giannis had one of the worst halves of basketball, in an elimination FIBA game, that any great player ever had in history. Very possibly, and likely, it was THE worst ever. Not only did Giannis decide to completely take off 15 whole minutes of game time on offense, maybe because his conditioning is below average, but he was also absolutely horrific on defense. His man defense and team defense in that second half was so awful, that it was astonishing, considering this is a player that won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year award. Giannis would have needed to up his defensive play about three levels, to even near the level of below average.

Have you ever written a post which doesn't contain an absurd over the top exaggeration like the bolded ones?

You are right, I should have taken out anything that suggested it might have been the worst performance ever in a major FIBA tournament second half elimination game by a great player. It was simply the worst ever, no doubt about it. I was being overly kind to Giannis to imply any others were that bad.

[basketballRob]

It was Giannis' second technical of the game.

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[Speadge]

The end of Greece in this tournament..........

1. Nick Calathes, Tyler Dorsey, and Kostas Sloukas are an incredibly embarrassing indictment on what has happened to Greek national team basketball guard play since Nikos Zisis and Vassilis Spanoulis retired.........

So you don't see a problem with those guards having just only one role in this team?

Watch on YouTube

[AussieBuck]

Even when it wasn't Giannis' fault, I knew it was Giannis' fault. Mr 197 IQ strikes again.

[TheFutureMM]

You acknowledge the huge drop off of guard play in Greece, and dump on Giannis? Calathes is a disaster, Dorsey is undersized shooter and Sloukas is a bench player, this is the reason Greece failed, Giannis is the reason they didn't fail earlier, and it took crazy shooting from the Germans to oust them.
Develop better guards...

It isn't just the fault of Greece's guards. The coaches and Giannis are very much to blame also.

Dimitris Diamantidis, Vassilis Spanoulis, and Theo Papaloukas won medals with less talented Greek teams than this one that Giannis had. Spanoulis won a medal with a Greek team with not even 1/4 of the talent that Giannis had in this team.

And Giannis had a disaster second half against Germany. Choke doesn't even begin to describe it. His 3rd quarter was possibly the worst quarter of basketball in an important game, of any supposed great player in the history of the sport of basketball.

Any claim that Giannis is without blame, after how poorly he played in the second half is beyond a ludicrous take. Giannis had one of the worst halves of basketball, in an elimination FIBA game, that any great player ever had in history. Very possibly, and likely, it was THE worst ever. Not only did Giannis decide to completely take off 15 whole minutes of game time on offense, maybe because his conditioning is below average, but he was also absolutely horrific on defense. His man defense and team defense in that second half was so awful, that it was astonishing, considering this is a player that won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year award. Giannis would have needed to up his defensive play about three levels, to even near the level of below average.

Have you ever written a post which doesn't contain an absurd over the top exaggeration like the bolded ones?

He regularly frequents the Raptors Canada Basketball thread. Now everyone gets to enjoy him.