How does Atlanta Hawks get over mediocrity?

[cupcakesnake]

It's crazy because this team runs 8 deep with starter-quality players, and they feel well built without holes. This is how I would have designed the team around Trae:
- Get him a screen & roll specialist who can also protect the rim. They got Capela.
- Get him a secondary ball handler who can guard at the point of attack. Enter Dejounte.
- Surround the core with an armada of versatile 2-way forwards. How about De'Andre, Saddiq, Jalen Johnson, maybe AJ Griffin if he ever learns defense.
- Get a defensive and offensive booster pack off the bench to back up key positions. Okongwu and Bogbog sounds pretty good!

But the result is just mid. Almost everyone is slightly underwhelming in these roles.

That's the weird part about it all. Hell, Dejounte has even become a better shooter this year, which means he should be able to play off-ball even better now than before. On paper, this team should work.

It's hard to know where to put the blame. On paper, everyone is doing their job.

De'Andre Hunter has underwhelmed and definitely not become the star-level 2-way wing they hoped for. But he's also having his most efficient shooting season to date, and still passes the sniff test as a solid starter. Jalen Johnson has been incredible this year, but is injured now. Saddiq Bey is fine. Bogdan is averaging 17ppg and sniping. Trae is having a career year. Clint is still Clinting and Onyeka is still an excellent defensive backup.

Like what do you do when the plan goes right from a roster construction standpoint, and you got the reputable coach you wanted...but the results are just a .500 team. I don't know where to start with the Hawks.

Trae and Dejounte still isn't working. They're both performing well individually, but they're -3.9 per 100 on the floor together, and the combinations involving Bogdan are more successful (the Trae/Dejounte/Bogdan 3-guard lineup also works well). The forward rotation minutes are pretty bad since Johnson got injured. The bench generally outplays the starters.

[jayu70]

It's crazy because this team runs 8 deep with starter-quality players, and they feel well built without holes. This is how I would have designed the team around Trae:
- Get him a screen & roll specialist who can also protect the rim. They got Capela.
- Get him a secondary ball handler who can guard at the point of attack. Enter Dejounte.
- Surround the core with an armada of versatile 2-way forwards. How about De'Andre, Saddiq, Jalen Johnson, maybe AJ Griffin if he ever learns defense.
- Get a defensive and offensive booster pack off the bench to back up key positions. Okongwu and Bogbog sounds pretty good!

But the result is just mid. Almost everyone is slightly underwhelming in these roles.

That's the weird part about it all. Hell, Dejounte has even become a better shooter this year, which means he should be able to play off-ball even better now than before. On paper, this team should work.

It's hard to know where to put the blame. On paper, everyone is doing their job.

De'Andre Hunter has underwhelmed and definitely not become the star-level 2-way wing they hoped for. But he's also having his most efficient shooting season to date, and still passes the sniff test as a solid starter. Jalen Johnson has been incredible this year, but is injured now. Saddiq Bey is fine. Bogdan is averaging 17ppg and sniping. Trae is having a career year. Clint is still Clinting and Onyeka is still an excellent defensive backup.

Like what do you do when the plan goes right from a roster construction standpoint, and you got the reputable coach you wanted...but the results are just a .500 team. I don't know where to start with the Hawks.

Trae and Dejounte still isn't working. They're both performing well individually, but they're -3.9 per 100 on the floor together, and the combinations involving Bogdan are more successful (the Trae/Dejounte/Bogdan 3-guard lineup also works well). The forward rotation minutes are pretty bad since Johnson got injured. The bench generally outplays the starters.

Saddiq is not fine - really horrible on defense and he's struggling with his 3pt shot since moving into a starting role: First, when Johnson was out at PF and now with Hunter out at SF. He does better off the bench. Hawks also playing Garrison Mathews real bench minutes because of injuries is problematic.
Then there's this:

Read on Twitter

....still haven't solved the Trae trap with the rest of the team making plays.

[slicedbread2]

When Jalen Johnson (our 2nd best player) went down the team completely fell apart b/c we had no depth behind him. We were playing Wes FKN Mathews at the 4 at one point. All of our depth is gone since we traded Kevin Heurter and John Collins for nothing to avoid the tax.

We aren't great defensively and are one of the worst rebounding teams to boot. So when we actually get a stop, we give up an OREB and they score anyway.

DeAndre Hunter is 6'8" 220 and maybe the worst rebounder for his size in the NBA. He's pretty good at on-ball man defense, but he sucks at help D, doesn't get steals/deflections/active hands/hustle type plays at all. Just has a lazy game. He has no impact and is a major reason we suck at rebounding.

Saddiq Bey is a stretch 3/4 offensively, but he's probably the worst defender on the team. He's just always out of place. He is bottom 10% of defenders in the league. He hustles and can hit the 3 though.

Bogi is great offensively, but he's also terrible on D. And when he plays the 3 with Murray/Trae we are way undersized.

AJ Griffin is terrible on D and forgot how to shoot this year.

Trae has improved a lot defensively and isn't terrible anymore, but he still isn't a great defender. He doesn't deserve the "worst in the NBA' type criticism anymore. He's probably a below average to average defender, which is adequate given how great he is offensively.

Murray isn't really a good defender at the 2. He's undersized. He really needs to be a PG, or play beside a big PG. Him and Trae are a bad fit.

Capela has lost a step and doesn't stretch the floor at all, so we can't play him and OO together. It's like we can play Capela/OO together and get rebounds and stops, but we can't space the floor. Or we play Bey/Hunter at the 4 but can't rebound or get stops. Thank GOD Jalen Johnson is back. If he gets hurt again we are screwed.

Okongwu has really struggled this year, his PER is the worst of his career. He was better as a rookie.

Damn that's really rough to hear. It really baffled me when they gave up Kevin Huerter for pennies on the dollar(IMHO they could've gotten way more). I understand that they had too many mouths to feed, but instead of consolidating depth to really get that 2nd star next to Trae, they messed up royally. They should've moved Reddish, Huerter and/or Hunter/Okongwu in order to get that 2nd star before it was too late. Sadly they ended up with too many guards.

Outside of Jalen Johnson who has really shined and broken out, it's really rough watching the team mess things up. I would've advocated trading for Siakam, but any new team that trades for him can only sign him to a 2 year extension so that's a major hurdle.

Trading for Dejounte was a really boneheaded move. I understand the reasoning behind it due to the Heat killing them in the first round in 2022, but they would've been better off with a T.J. McConnell/Tyus Jones type of pg to run the 2nd unit and it wouldn't have costed them anything. Instead, San Antonio will own their picks in 25+27 with the option to swap picks in 26. Damn that's painful.

Really sucks that ownership was bragging about wanting to pay tax for a contender only to go full Sarver and cheap out. That's really one of the main reasons they got so little for Collins not to mention being desperate to get out of his deal made things even worse.

[Rendei]

I like the Trae/Jalen pairing. I think that the Hawks have got something there. But they need to put a better team around them. That just comes down to making smart moves. And a willingness to spend.

[HotelVitale]

That's the weird part about it all. Hell, Dejounte has even become a better shooter this year, which means he should be able to play off-ball even better now than before. On paper, this team should work.

It's hard to know where to put the blame. On paper, everyone is doing their job. De'Andre Hunter has underwhelmed and definitely not become the star-level 2-way wing they hoped for. But he's also having his most efficient shooting season to date, and still passes the sniff test as a solid starter. Jalen Johnson has been incredible this year, but is injured now. Saddiq Bey is fine. Bogdan is averaging 17ppg and sniping. Trae is having a career year. Clint is still Clinting and Onyeka is still an excellent defensive backup.

Like what do you do when the plan goes right from a roster construction standpoint, and you got the reputable coach you wanted...but the results are just a .500 team. I don't know where to start with the Hawks.

Saddiq is not fine - really horrible on defense and he's struggling with his 3pt shot since moving into a starting role: First, when Johnson was out at PF and now with Hunter out at SF. He does better off the bench. Hawks also playing Garrison Mathews real bench minutes because of injuries is problematic..

Yeah but he's your 3rd/4th wing who doens't make much $ so that sounds like what 'fine' is. Gonna have some up and down shooting streaks, isn't going to change the game in other ways, just hopefully doesn't lose you games and holds the line so that other guys can win it.

Think other guy's point is that he's playing okay for a 3rd/4th wing--not great and maybe a little disappoint but not bad enough that it explains why a team many thought could win 50ish games is on pace for like 33.

[Jamaaliver]

I like the Trae/Jalen pairing. I think that the Hawks have got something there. But they need to put a better team around them. That just comes down to making smart moves. And a willingness to spend.

Yeah...that seems like the direction to start leaning in for sure.

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[Jamaaliver]

Burn it all down to the ground?

Read on Twitter

[Chuck Everett]

The Hawks don't defend. Having a great offense is cool, but when even the worst offensive teams can hang with you, that's a problem.

[Pharmcat]

Should’ve taken Lakers package for Murray

[zero rings]

Dejounte Murray is an empty stats player. Trading multiple firsts for him was foolish, and keeping him at the deadline was just doubling down on a mistake.

They'd be a better team with Bogdanovic starting.

[Pharmcat]

Dejounte Murray is an empty stats player. Trading multiple firsts for him was foolish, and keeping him at the deadline was just doubling down on a mistake.

They'd be a better team with Bogdanovic starting.

sunk cost fallacy

[Zeno]

Dejounte Murray is an empty stats player. Trading multiple firsts for him was foolish, and keeping him at the deadline was just doubling down on a mistake.

They'd be a better team with Bogdanovic starting.

sunk cost fallacy

I think making a bad trade this deadline to improve the on court product this year would also apply as investing in a sunk cost...especially when the assets teams will have to trade is known to be greater in the offseason.

[Zeno]

Burn it all down to the ground?

Read on Twitter

That's like 20 years. It is unfair to put individual players' pictures to that. And it is also not especially interesting as a stat because you'd figure with the cyclical nature of the nba that is basically around where most teams records should end up over a timespan that long. Being the closest to .500 in the vast majority of the seasons in that time frame would be way more indicative of "mid-ness".

[zero rings]

Dejounte Murray is an empty stats player. Trading multiple firsts for him was foolish, and keeping him at the deadline was just doubling down on a mistake.

They'd be a better team with Bogdanovic starting.

sunk cost fallacy

I think making a bad trade this deadline to improve the on court product this year would also apply as investing in a sunk cost...especially when the assets teams will have to trade is known to be greater in the offseason.

Getting anything at all for Murray would be a positive. He is not a winning player, and whoever trades for him will find that out in short order.

D'angelo Russell and a pick would have been a fine haul.

[Zeno]

sunk cost fallacy

I think making a bad trade this deadline to improve the on court product this year would also apply as investing in a sunk cost...especially when the assets teams will have to trade is known to be greater in the offseason.

Getting anything at all for Murray would be a positive. He is not a winning player, and whoever trades for him will find that out in short order.

D'angelo Russell and a pick would have been a fine haul.

I disagree with this but whether the team that trades for him realizes that they made a mistake or not is irrelevant as far as the Hawks are concerned. The only relevant thing is getting the maximum return they can. The Hawks are hurting the return they can get by wanting to drop salary as well. Even then they should be able to convince a team to give them more than a single 1st and a player they don't want.

[RoyceDa59]

Trade Trae for Luka.

[mj234eva]

Leave Atlanta.

[zero rings]

I think making a bad trade this deadline to improve the on court product this year would also apply as investing in a sunk cost...especially when the assets teams will have to trade is known to be greater in the offseason.

Getting anything at all for Murray would be a positive. He is not a winning player, and whoever trades for him will find that out in short order.

D'angelo Russell and a pick would have been a fine haul.

I disagree with this but whether the team that trades for him realizes that they made a mistake or not is irrelevant as far as the Hawks are concerned. The only relevant thing is getting the maximum return they can. The Hawks are hurting the return they can get by wanting to drop salary as well. Even then they should be able to convince a team to give them more than a single 1st and a player they don't want.

Russell is about as good as Murray, and they'd get an extra pick out of the deal. That sounds like good business to me.

Maybe you think there will be a better deal in the summer, but I don't see it. Murray has lost his luster and teams like the Lakers will have more assets to target better players than him. Shedding his salary while picking up multiple firsts is a pipe dream.

[PurpleGreenGold]

Finally realize that Trae is not a guy who can lead a franchise. The sooner they pivot from him, the sooner they can start over with a true #1 option.

[jayu70]

I think making a bad trade this deadline to improve the on court product this year would also apply as investing in a sunk cost...especially when the assets teams will have to trade is known to be greater in the offseason.

Getting anything at all for Murray would be a positive. He is not a winning player, and whoever trades for him will find that out in short order.

D'angelo Russell and a pick would have been a fine haul.

I disagree with this but whether the team that trades for him realizes that they made a mistake or not is irrelevant as far as the Hawks are concerned. The only relevant thing is getting the maximum return they can. The Hawks are hurting the return they can get by wanting to drop salary as well. Even then they should be able to convince a team to give them more than a single 1st and a player they don't want.

This cannot be emphasized enough. The owner is unwilling to spend.