RealGM

what have you done for me lately? sometimes I have to remind myself that the people who start these threads are probably 13 years old.

bledredwine wrote:I am starting to question his ability to go head to head with great defenders.

Dwight gave him some trouble back in the day, then Embiid and now this.

He's an ATG talent either way.

I mean last year in the playoffs he went against

Gobert: 26/12/9
AD: 28/14/12 (60 TS%)
Bam: 30/14/7 (67 TS%)

AD (this year): 28/16/10 (67 TS%)

Between those 3 guys. There is

3 DPOY
14 All Defense
4 block champions

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not claiming Jokic has been good so far this series. But I think he’s proven he can be elite in the playoffs against the top tier big man defenders.

Meh. The book on Jokic was out in 2020. If you have big guys who can stay physical with him and bully him all game, you can wear him down and neutralize him. We saw the Lakers do it that year with Dwight and Javale, and now it's Minny's turn.

Doesn't mean Jokic isn't a great player. He's clearly that. The ceiling has just always been lower than a lot of the hyperbole about him would have led some to believe.

Plus it is always grating when a guy like Jokic is given a pass for things other players have always gotten crucified for, whether it's his defensive liability, or his conditioning, or his dedication to the game and/or devotion to outside interests. A sliver of consistency from The Discourse would go a long way.

AleksandarN wrote:

LaLover11 wrote:Overated Pau Gasol

In know Pau Gasol is overrated like every laker except Magic and Kareem

Right, everyone knows Magic and Kareem are the only good Lakers players in the franchise's history

Totally reasonable thing to say lol

AleksandarN wrote:

JustBuzzin wrote:

AleksandarN wrote:You troll I don’t. That’s the difference

If I was trolling I would be banned already. I talk basketball, you just disagree with my opinions.

You give me so much attention to be a troll. It's why I know we have a lot in common. I wouldn't pay attention to a nobody. You clearly have interest in what I post.

Chess not Checkers.

Imagine private messaging someone pretending to be a member of the jokic family. Just to troll like you did in the past.

Oh look the troll has nothing to say about it does he. Lol

These threads are so dumb. If you're taking shots a jokic for this you are crazy.

Its incredibly hard to win a title and your window is short. Toss in the fact the NBA is loaded with talented young players we might not see a team rattle of two or three titles in a row for a bit.

Ahh yes, he's one of the many "not hims" with 2 MVPs, a championship, and a Finals MVP. Got it.

AleksandarN wrote:

AleksandarN wrote:

JustBuzzin wrote:If I was trolling I would be banned already. I talk basketball, you just disagree with my opinions.

You give me so much attention to be a troll. It's why I know we have a lot in common. I wouldn't pay attention to a nobody. You clearly have interest in what I post.

Chess not Checkers.

Imagine private messaging someone pretending to be a member of the jokic family. Just to troll like you did in the past.

Oh look the troll has nothing to say about it does he. Lol

You do realize you are trolling me right now?

I'm talking basketball you talking about a private message sent weeks ago.

Cmon man stick to basketball.

ReddoverKobe wrote:These threads are so dumb. If you're taking shots a jokic for this you are crazy.

Its incredibly hard to win a title and your window is short. Toss in the fact the NBA is loaded with talented young players we might not see a team rattle of two or three titles in a row for a bit.

I am taking shots at Jokic’s heart this series. Look I think Jokic is the best player in the league and when he fails to live up to it I have no problem calling him out. I knew others would pile on; some rightfully so. Others who have different agendas will expose themselves.

He's still the best player in the world and a generational talent. But yeah, the "better peak than LeBron" and "highest floor of all time" stuff was too much.

AleksandarN wrote:

ReddoverKobe wrote:These threads are so dumb. If you're taking shots a jokic for this you are crazy.

Its incredibly hard to win a title and your window is short. Toss in the fact the NBA is loaded with talented young players we might not see a team rattle of two or three titles in a row for a bit.

I am taking shots at Jokic’s heart this series. Look I think Jokic is the best player in the league and when he fails to live up to it I have no problem calling him out. I knew others would pile on; some rightfully so. Others who have different agendas will expose themselves.

Would either of you disagree that he never had to show heart last year, because all of his opponents were weak and outmatched (which was glaringly obvious)?

It's not crazy to take shots at him for this. What's crazy was elevating him to being "the best basketball player we've ever seen," based on last year beating a bunch of fodder. I know the names from the rosters, but none of those teams were any good. He's a great player, but with all that's been said about him, the eye test is really exposing it to be fraudulent when youre putting him in the company of all time great players. He's got way to many flaws to sniff that discussion, MVP awards be damned. Nobody cares about the regular season when comparing guys on that level. Along those lines, I've seen Embiids MVP last year ripped all season long because his team lost in the second round. Will it be fair to rip Jokics MVP this year as a joke if he loses in the second round?

hardenASG13 wrote:

AleksandarN wrote:

ReddoverKobe wrote:These threads are so dumb. If you're taking shots a jokic for this you are crazy.

Its incredibly hard to win a title and your window is short. Toss in the fact the NBA is loaded with talented young players we might not see a team rattle of two or three titles in a row for a bit.

I am taking shots at Jokic’s heart this series. Look I think Jokic is the best player in the league and when he fails to live up to it I have no problem calling him out. I knew others would pile on; some rightfully so. Others who have different agendas will expose themselves.

Would either of you disagree that he never had to show heart last year, because all of his opponents were weak and outmatched (which was glaringly obvious)?

It's not crazy to take shots at him for this. What's crazy was elevating him to being "the best basketball player we've ever seen," based on last year beating a bunch of fodder. I know the names from the rosters, but none of those teams were any good. He's a great player, but with all that's been said about him, the eye test is really exposing it to be fraudulent when youre putting him in the company of all time great players. He's got way to many flaws to sniff that discussion, MVP awards be damned. Nobody cares about the regular season when comparing guys on that level. Along those lines, I've seen Embiids MVP last year ripped all season long because his team lost in the second round. Will it be fair to rip Jokics MVP this year as a joke if he loses in the second round?

When did I call Jokic the goat?? Also Jokic was ripped last year because of lack of titles. It is one of reasons he lost the mvp award last year. He will get criticized as I am doing now for his play in this series

AleksandarN wrote:

hardenASG13 wrote:

AleksandarN wrote:I am taking shots at Jokic’s heart this series. Look I think Jokic is the best player in the league and when he fails to live up to it I have no problem calling him out. I knew others would pile on; some rightfully so. Others who have different agendas will expose themselves.

Would either of you disagree that he never had to show heart last year, because all of his opponents were weak and outmatched (which was glaringly obvious)?

It's not crazy to take shots at him for this. What's crazy was elevating him to being "the best basketball player we've ever seen," based on last year beating a bunch of fodder. I know the names from the rosters, but none of those teams were any good. He's a great player, but with all that's been said about him, the eye test is really exposing it to be fraudulent when youre putting him in the company of all time great players. He's got way to many flaws to sniff that discussion, MVP awards be damned. Nobody cares about the regular season when comparing guys on that level. Along those lines, I've seen Embiids MVP last year ripped all season long because his team lost in the second round. Will it be fair to rip Jokics MVP this year as a joke if he loses in the second round?

When did I call Jokic the goat?? Also Jokic was ripped last year because of lack of titles. It is one of reasons he lost the mvp award last year. He will get criticized as I am doing now for his play in this series

I'm not sure when you called him the GOAT. I am sure there have been numerous threads in which people have favorably compared him to peak Lebron/MJ/Shaq. It's been a prevalent theme on this board as whole for past year, by people with recency bias, a penchant to post advanced stats, and no eye test. All because he and Denver beat a bunch of trash in a fluky playoffs. I won't name specific names, but those takes are looking really bad.

hardenASG13 wrote:

AleksandarN wrote:

hardenASG13 wrote:
Would either of you disagree that he never had to show heart last year, because all of his opponents were weak and outmatched (which was glaringly obvious)?

It's not crazy to take shots at him for this. What's crazy was elevating him to being "the best basketball player we've ever seen," based on last year beating a bunch of fodder. I know the names from the rosters, but none of those teams were any good. He's a great player, but with all that's been said about him, the eye test is really exposing it to be fraudulent when youre putting him in the company of all time great players. He's got way to many flaws to sniff that discussion, MVP awards be damned. Nobody cares about the regular season when comparing guys on that level. Along those lines, I've seen Embiids MVP last year ripped all season long because his team lost in the second round. Will it be fair to rip Jokics MVP this year as a joke if he loses in the second round?

When did I call Jokic the goat?? Also Jokic was ripped last year because of lack of titles. It is one of reasons he lost the mvp award last year. He will get criticized as I am doing now for his play in this series

I'm not sure when you called him the GOAT. I am sure there have been numerous threads in which people have favorably compared him to peak Lebron/MJ/Shaq. It's been a prevalent theme on this board as whole for past year, by people with recency bias, a penchant to post advanced stats, and no eye test. All because he and Denver beat a bunch of trash in a fluky playoffs. I won't name specific names, but those takes are looking really bad.

When I called him the goat? I didn’t so quit lying.

Chuck Everett wrote:Nah, this ain't it.

However, he's definitely gassed. And so are the rest of the starters (except Michael Porter Jr.). The only teams that tend to even make the finals back to back years out of the West are superteams (or potential dynasties). Them losing in the 2nd round isn't the worst thing in the world. They'll still be contenders next season. Just won't be prohibitive favorites.

The new CBA is going to make it harder on everyone. Kudos to Minnesota for feeling like there was a shot to win a chip and going for it. Meanwhile you have Morey deciding to punt on a season with a former MVP and wait 'til the offseason to make moves.

Honestly why isn't Morey getting more criticism for this. The supporting cast he put together last year was crap. He doesn't seem to have a great chance at landing any of the FAs he covets. Even when he does, where's he going to find decent role players to fill the rest of the roster?

Better peak then Lebron offensively under these rules may be true -- peak Lebron didn't get the chance to play in this era -- and I've been a critic of these rules that inflate the value of certain players and tend to deflate the value of others. But peak Lebron was the much better defender in terms of ability at least. Jokic good to very good defender overall even if liability in some aspects of big man defense. Lebron at times has played just average defense especially as he gets older but he was capable of playing great defense with no major holes in his game on defense.

Even if Jokic played better, Denver still loses since Jamal Murray was 3 for 18 and Porter Jr. also had an off game shooting.

MN was clearly the much better team but I also think they got away with hacking the Denver ball handlers at times. On multiple plays, I saw more than 1 fouls that could have been called against MN defense and they were just not called. And I say this as someone who has a slight rooting preference for MN in this series but I don't like how the NBA has devolved in allowing too much contact by defenders or even offensive players.

While no one likes to see a free throw shooting contested and all of the players fouled out, NBA players would adjust if the league called it more tightly/consistently. But if the league just calls less than half of the fouls committed by defenders against ballhandlers, the teams built to take advantage of that have a clear edge.

Wow, the amount of dumb takes emerging after Nuggets down 0-2 to a superior team is staggering. Maybe the TWolves are actually THAT good?

AleksandarN wrote:

hardenASG13 wrote:

AleksandarN wrote:[/b]
When did I call Jokic the goat?? Also Jokic was ripped last year because of lack of titles. It is one of reasons he lost the mvp award last year. He will get criticized as I am doing now for his play in this series

I'm not sure when you called him the GOAT. I am sure there have been numerous threads in which people have favorably compared him to peak Lebron/MJ/Shaq. It's been a prevalent theme on this board as whole for past year, by people with recency bias, a penchant to post advanced stats, and no eye test. All because he and Denver beat a bunch of trash in a fluky playoffs. I won't name specific names, but those takes are looking really bad.

When I called him the goat? I didn’t so quit lying.

When did I say YOU did? Stop deflecting. You know as well as I do how prevelant that idea has been on this board since his title. You also have been a main supporter of his in many of those threads. It's kind of funny that you start threads ripping him the second he faces adversity considering how much you've propped him up, and disparaged posters like me who questioned how great he really was based on the weak path he faced last year and the eye test.

hardenASG13 wrote:

AleksandarN wrote:

hardenASG13 wrote:

I'm not sure when you called him the GOAT. I am sure there have been numerous threads in which people have favorably compared him to peak Lebron/MJ/Shaq. It's been a prevalent theme on this board as whole for past year, by people with recency bias, a penchant to post advanced stats, and no eye test. All because he and Denver beat a bunch of trash in a fluky playoffs. I won't name specific names, but those takes are looking really bad.

When I called him the goat? I didn’t so quit lying.

When did I say YOU did? Stop deflecting. You know as well as I do how prevelant that idea has been on this board since his title. You also have been a main supporter of his in many of those threads. It's kind of funny that you start threads ripping him the second he faces adversity considering how much you've propped him up, and disparaged posters like me who questioned how great he really was based on the weak path he faced last year and the eye test.

You said “you are not sure WHEN YOU did”. Quit lying. Also Jokic is the best player in the league. And I will praise him and I will also criticize him when he doesn’t live up to his potential. I have no problem criticizing any player when they failed to live up to the expectations of being the best player in the NBA.

He's a first ballot hall of famer. But where he ranks all time will get settled by his play.

This year so far isn't improving his status amongst the all time great centers - he's still on the outside of the top 5 in my books (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq).

And so we're nowhere close to assessing his status compared to greats at all positions.

GeorgeSears wrote:Wow, the amount of dumb takes emerging after Nuggets down 0-2 to a superior team is staggering. Maybe the TWolves are actually THAT good?

They are good but not great. I don't think anyone is ready to call this wolves team a great team. So where does that leave this Nuggets team?