In hindsight with the level of international competition there is now, does this change how you view the '92 Dream Team?

[LockoutSeason]

Basketball is the only sport where people will argue the Apex was the 90s. Outside of ball, everyone agrees that humans have gotten stronger, faster, and better in pretty much every sport. Carl Lewis gold medal time in 1988 wouldn’t even be last in the 100m in 2024 but we want to pretend the greatest NBA player ever was from the 90s. Dudes will ignore reality to protect the image they have of their childhood hero.

They think that the increase in athleticism is only due to “rule changes”.

Also, the 90s were more physical even though the players were smaller and less athletic.

[tsherkin]

You been here long enough to not ask that question and know exactly why.

Posters posts with their agendas and with bad faith.

You are correct, of course.

You are using "focal point" as a term to deminish productivity as if productivity is decided solely upon the head coach. Magic not being anywhere close to the best player on the team is a result of him not being that level of player any longer and not a result of the position the head coach placed him in.

What? You understand that role matters, right? Minutes per game, they matter. Magic averaged 11 AST36 in the 92 Olympics, he was just playing 2/3s of the minutes Lebron was playing and the 92 team had no need to lean on a focal player. Magic WAS very close to being the best player on the team, you just can't get past per-game averages to see that for some reason.

Anyway, you very clearly aren't discussing in good faith, so this is my stepping-off point. Have a good one.

[SelfishPlayer]

You been here long enough to not ask that question and know exactly why.

Posters posts with their agendas and with bad faith.

You are correct, of course.

You are using "focal point" as a term to deminish productivity as if productivity is decided solely upon the head coach. Magic not being anywhere close to the best player on the team is a result of him not being that level of player any longer and not a result of the position the head coach placed him in.

What? You understand that role matters, right? Minutes per game, they matter. Magic averaged 11 AST36 in the 92 Olympics, he was just playing 2/3s of the minutes Lebron was playing and the 92 team had no need to lean on a focal player. Magic WAS very close to being the best player on the team, you just can't get past per-game averages to see that for some reason.

Anyway, you very clearly aren't discussing in good faith, so this is my stepping-off point. Have a good one.

8ppg Magic played the role he deserved and so did John Stockton.

[DavidSterned]

Once you move those two names out of the way, you'll notice that the Barkley lovefest is what they hang their hat on, besides MJ of course... Barkley becomes Wilt Chamberlain or anyone that is ever mentioned in GOAT conversation when no one ever mentions Barkley as a GOAT normally.

Congrats on defeating that stawman. I’ve never seen anyone claim that Barkley is the GOAT. He wasn’t the GOAT of his generation and he isn’t the GOAT of his position.

Magic finished 2nd in MVP voting in 1991 and led his team to the finals. He wasn’t cooked.

What I have heard people say is that the Dream Team had 6 MVPs.

If we go by ESPN’s top 75 player ranking the players on the Dream team ranked 1st, 4th, 7th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 32nd, 40th, and 53rd all time.

You don't get the 90-91 Magic Johnson. You get the Magic Johnson that sat out a year and talks about how MJ abused him and Bird in practice.

Hell, Magic was still a pretty damn good player when he actually came back in the '96 season. And he was four years older and packing some pudge. In no way was he "cooked" in '92 and he did in fact play quite well in the Olympics.

[DavidSterned]

4.6 steals a game against a bunch of roofers that dribbled with two hands isn't impressive.

green font?

As awesome as the ‘92 Dream Team was, I don't think some of you understand how bad some teams they faced were. Many players had civilian jobs back in their native country. An undrafted Toni Kukoc was considered the world’s best player outside of the NBA.

Kukoc was a 1st rounder (29th pick, 2nd rounder at the time but 1st round today) in 1990. A quick five seconds of research would reveal this.

And not sure the need to minimize Kukoc either. We eventually saw him play in the NBA. A lot. He was good.

[Hellcrooner]

Just for the record Kukoc was not the best ( nor considered) the best player outside nba
Petrovic and Sabonis were considered ( and were) Better.

[SportsGuru08]

No because the top 3 players on this year's squad were older than 35 and the international players STILL couldn't beat them. So no, they really aren't that much better than they were in '92. Their inability to defeat dinosaurs is enough confirmation to say the Dream Team would've smoked these guys.

[SportsGuru08]

You aren't making sense. You say that in blowouts the starters sit but the gold medal game was a blowout and Magic played the most minutes. Magic sat out an entire year and was cooked as an MVP level player. He sat out an entire season he should never be considered to be on the same level of player as Curry, LeBron, and KD that never left the game.

The Gold Medal game wasn’t as much of a blowout as other games. A 32 point win isn’t as much of a blowout as a 50 point win.

Durant was elite in the 2021 playoffs after sitting out a year. Jordan was still elite in the 95 playoffs after sitting out a year. Curry was elite in 2021 after sitting out a year. Magic was still elite.

Magic wasn't even elite in the Olympics! Magic wasn't elite when he returned to the Lakers in 1995! You simply believe that he was elite and that is fine to hold your belief. The empirical data says otherwise.

He averaged 13/6/7 on .612 TS% on about 30 MPG at age 36 after not playing for 4 years. He wasn't "cooked" in '92. Cut the crap.

[NO-KG-AI]

I think all the top players between 27-32 on the 92 team were just more talented and more polished, and more dominant than the ones now. The “old” guys on the dream team were 32 and 35. The GOAT was at peak age and production.

This year’s iteration was leaning so heavily on the old guys because guys like AD, injured Embiid, Booker, Tatum just don’t have the ability to take the reins from them.

The dream team just had way more legends close to peak age and playing ability.

[mcmurphy]

green font?

As awesome as the ‘92 Dream Team was, I don't think some of you understand how bad some teams they faced were. Many players had civilian jobs back in their native country. An undrafted Toni Kukoc was considered the world’s best player outside of the NBA.

Kukoc was a 1st rounder (29th pick, 2nd rounder at the time but 1st round today) in 1990. A quick five seconds of research would reveal this.

And not sure the need to minimize Kukoc either. We eventually saw him play in the NBA. A lot. He was good.

19 years old Kukoc today will be 1st pick without problem

only Phoenix and Sacramento could send him to third place

[infinite11285]

And not sure the need to minimize Kukoc either. We eventually saw him play in the NBA. A lot. He was good.

How did I minimize Kukoc by citing the fact he was considered the best international player by several major publications and outlets in ‘92?

It’s well known that international competition in ‘92 doesn’t remotely compare to today. That’s simply reality. A vast majority of those past international teams would not qualify for Olympic competition today.

[D.Brasco]

And not sure the need to minimize Kukoc either. We eventually saw him play in the NBA. A lot. He was good.

How did I minimize Kukoc by citing the fact he was considered the best international player by several major publications and outlets in ‘92?

It’s well known that international competition in ‘92 doesn’t remotely compare to today. That’s simply reality. A vast majority of those past international teams would not qualify for Olympic competition today.

Some of those '92 teams looked like they had just learned the basic concepts of basketball right before the games started.

I'll grant the '92 American Dream team was legit but some of the competition they played would barely qualify for some rec leagues today let alone the Olympics.

[DavidSterned]

And not sure the need to minimize Kukoc either. We eventually saw him play in the NBA. A lot. He was good.

How did I minimize Kukoc by citing the fact he was considered the best international player by several major publications and outlets in ‘92?

It’s well known that international competition in ‘92 doesn’t remotely compare to today. That’s simply reality. A vast majority of those past international teams would not qualify for Olympic competition today.

By stating he was "an undrafted guy" (erroneously) multiple times? I think it was pretty obvious.

[CBS7]

Basketball is the only sport where people will argue the Apex was the 90s. Outside of ball, everyone agrees that humans have gotten stronger, faster, and better in pretty much every sport. Carl Lewis gold medal time in 1988 wouldn’t even be last in the 100m in 2024 but we want to pretend the greatest NBA player ever was from the 90s. Dudes will ignore reality to protect the image they have of their childhood hero.

better is subjective
in terms of pure athleticism, no one can argue in good faith that today's players are not more athletic on average.
but that doesn't necessarily mean that times past can't be the "apex"
I personally don't agree with it but people can point at relaxed travel/carry rules, 3 point spam, foul bating, player movement, flopping and use that to justify why they think the 90s was better.

[infinite11285]

And not sure the need to minimize Kukoc either. We eventually saw him play in the NBA. A lot. He was good.

How did I minimize Kukoc by citing the fact he was considered the best international player by several major publications and outlets in ‘92?

It’s well known that international competition in ‘92 doesn’t remotely compare to today. That’s simply reality. A vast majority of those past international teams would not qualify for Olympic competition today.

By stating he was "an undrafted guy" (erroneously) multiple times? I think it was pretty obvious.

To be clear, I minimized international competition as a whole and used Kukoc as a comparative exception, considering his tenure in the NBA and overall career. Citing his draft status was a reference to his age and not his skillset.

[dhsilv2]

To preface, you can't pick your competition. The '92 Dream team did what they did against the teams they were put in front of. It's just that those teams were waaay behind in basketball development to the international teams now.

I've seen people stating that because Team USA aren't blowing out teams by 50 points anymore in their wins, it proves they are inferior to the '92 team. Which I think is ridiculous when you factor how many NBA and NBA caliber players now play for teams outside the US.

Should the competition the 1992 Dream team factor into how good a team they really were at least compared to their modern counterparts?

They were a vanity show that stoked the interest in basketball among fans around the world. Why would that change?