Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon

[YogurtProducer]

I think Masai got suboptimal value for all 4 of Siakam, OG, FVV and Lowry. I also think his Barnes obsession has juiced his value. They should have either kept Barnes in a smaller role, earning minutes, which would have limited the chance of overpayment, or traded him. I really don't think Barnes is that great tbh.

What do you think would have been fair value? This excerise has been done many times - and the end results is.... not much more than he actuall got

[ItsDanger]

The Masai stans just can't accept that past performance is no guarantee of future results. Championship was 5 years ago, all the key components are gone. It has zero relevance on the court currently. Yet people continue to argue based on the past.

Moving forward, this roster will struggle just to be .500 for at least 2 years. Are you going to make a decision then when assets are squandered further? How much time does one need anyways? Proactive managers make hard decisions more quickly than that. I suspect this mediocre situation (NHL team also) prompted this move sooner than many expected. Hard to say if new Pres/GM will be better but watching Masai lately, just seems he's on cruise control waiting for his bi-monthly salary payment to deposit.

Look at the bright side, maybe he stays.

[One_and_Done]

What more could he have possibly gotten for OG at any point?

If he had moved him 2+ years out? A pick heavy rebuilding package, which is what he could have gotten for Pascal too. You either hang on to those guys and build a winner, or you move them well in advance and rebuild. Masai chose option 3; mediocrity.

2+ years out? You think Toronto should have prioritized trading 24 year old OG Anunoby?

that is the thing that makes no sense here. All you people slam the Raptors FO for not trading good players who were 24 or 25 at the time you wanted them moved. What team is out here moving GOOD players in their mid 20s exactly?

Like I said, personally I would have kept them all, but if you aren't willing to pay them then yeh you trade them 2 years out ideally. Good GMs know how to value players then act accordingly.

[One_and_Done]

Would be a downgrade from Marks.

Masai has stagnated in Toronto, he hasn't been able follow through on a vision and has not managed his assets well.

He's a good GM but whether it's because of complacency or something else he's not getting the job done.

Yeh, I'd rather Mark's for sure.

WTF has Marks accomplished to justify this much respect?

Marks came into a hopeless situation and did a good job, but became a victim of events outside his control. Masai's was the cause of his own misfortunes. Unlike Masai, Marks understands strategy. When things fell apart, he realised when he had to rebuild and did so.

[doogie_hauser]

He is not a bad GM by any means, but if feels like it will be for the best if he and The Raptors both had a fresh start elsewhere.

[Sixers in 4]

The current state of the team is a direct result of being reactive and putting players interests before the team. It's no surprise the Raps are firmly in the bottom tier of the league currently. This is a results based business and those results have been terrible lately.

I think it's more of a result of a FO and ownership that doesn't know the direction they want to go even the trades have been schizo like some trades they are trading for win now pieces that need to be extended like Poetl, Quickley, and Gary Trent Jr. The other are trades for first round picks like the pacers trade.

Pick a direction because you can't retool in the NBA unless you are a FA destination. You don't do it through trades and certainly not mixed trades for non-prospects. All you are costing yourself the opportunity to acquire longterm assets and instead taking shortterm pieces that will either walk or lose much of their value after being extended.

They literally won a championship through trades so I think that's an overly simplistic view point to think there's only one way to be successful. Yes, picking in the top 5 in the draft gives you a better chance at an All-Star but it's actually very difficult to be so bad that you're picking top 5 every year and even more so now with the flatter lottery odds. You can be picking top 5 for a couple years in a row and the odds are you still likely won't end up with a Superstar. Those guys are extremely difficult to find, but just look at the All-NBA teams this year. SGA, Jokic, Giannis, Brunson, Kawhi, Sabonis, Haliburton and Booker all were picked out of the top 10. that's more then half of the All-NBA teams picked out of the top 10. Point is talent gets found everywhere and it doesn't just happen at the top of the draft.

The Kawhi trade was sort of a once in a generation type trade like the lopsided Gasol trade but this isn't some sort of hypothetical or theory we are seeing it play-out in realtime. The Raptors have gotten worse by these deals with little salary savings.

All these moves do will keep the Raptors ahead of the Pistons and Wizards of the world and get them worse odds at a top pick. Not to mention the assets they could have gotten otherwise. Like Quickley for example if the Raptors moved him now he'd have almost no trade value, maybe even - value if he shipped him to a 3rd team at the time of the trade they could have likely gotten a first rounder or just taken one from NY and let them figure out what to do with him.

Brown is another guy for some reason Masai thinks he has all this sort of value he doesn't. He is holding onto him in the hopes of multiple first rounders. Forgetting two important points he doesn't want to be a raptor and the rest of the league doesn't value him. So he has knee surgery. Now his value is 0.0 he is untradable until he comes back and proves he is healthy. You look at how he managed Gary Trent Jr as an asset instead of moving him two offseasons ago when he had good value they held onto him signed him a 1yr deal doubled down on stupid didn't move him at the deadline. Now? He walked for nothing. There is no guarntee of anything in the NBA the SIxers tried to draft around Embiid and failed but there was at least hope. What the Raptors are doing has zero chance of working. If I was a raptor fan I'd be pissed the problem is you don't know who to blame is it Masai or Rogers but the Raptors are going to waste a lot of money and a lot of potential opportunity to acquire longterm assets to finish near the bottom of the standings next year. They remind me of the old knicks.

[YogurtProducer]

Yeh, I'd rather Mark's for sure.

WTF has Marks accomplished to justify this much respect?

Marks came into a hopeless situation and did a good job, but became a victim of events outside his control. Masai's was the cause of his own misfortunes. Unlike Masai, Marks understands strategy. When things fell apart, he realised when he had to rebuild and did so.

Jeez the mental gymnastics to somehow think this is insane.

[TorontoBarneys]

He is not a bad GM by any means, but if feels like it will be for the best if he and The Raptors both had a fresh start elsewhere.

He will probably bungle the Barnes era by putting too much stock into the current core and not tanking by the time he leaves, so we'll be back to treadmilling again in 2-3 years and people will likely blame other variables, as is common. I wouldn't be surprised if Barnes does not re-up for a 2nd extension considering how his time with the Raptors (so far) has been nothing short of tumultuous.

[kenwood3333]

Its probably a good idea for the two sides to go their separate way. After getting a ring, the organization has not had any success. There were many bad moves over the past few years. Now is the perfect time for the team to start fresh with the 'new' ownership.

[doogie_hauser]

He is not a bad GM by any means, but if feels like it will be for the best if he and The Raptors both had a fresh start elsewhere.

He will probably bungle the Barnes era by putting too much stock into the current core and not tanking by the time he leaves, so we'll be back to treadmilling again in 2-3 years and people will likely blame other variables, as is common. I wouldn't be surprised if Barnes does not re-up for a 2nd extension considering how his time with the Raptors (so far) has been nothing short of tumultuous.

The good news for you Raps fans is that I honestly think Scottie Barnes is the loyal type and seems very happy in Toronto.

Having said that, for a variety of reasons, the Raptors seem to be in a holding pattern with Masai, and your ownership haven't told him which path to take exactly.

The good news is you have got some freed up cap space, and some good assets back in the OG trade.

I reckon your front office (even if MU is there or not) should have a close look at Indiana and how they are building a very solid team around Haliburton without being in one of the most affluent or bigger markets in the league.

Of course some luck is required along the way.

[One_and_Done]

He is not a bad GM by any means, but if feels like it will be for the best if he and The Raptors both had a fresh start elsewhere.

He will probably bungle the Barnes era by putting too much stock into the current core and not tanking by the time he leaves, so we'll be back to treadmilling again in 2-3 years and people will likely blame other variables, as is common. I wouldn't be surprised if Barnes does not re-up for a 2nd extension considering how his time with the Raptors (so far) has been nothing short of tumultuous.

The good news for you Raps fans is that I honestly think Scottie Barnes is the loyal type and seems very happy in Toronto.

Having said that, for a variety of reasons, the Raptors seem to be in a holding pattern with Masai, and your ownership haven't told him which path to take exactly.

The good news is you have got some freed up cap space, and some good assets back in the OG trade.

I reckon your front office (even if MU is there or not) should have a close look at Indiana and how they are building a very solid team around Haliburton without being in one of the most affluent or bigger markets in the league.

Of course some luck is required along the way.

I'd be loyal too if you overpaid me that much.

[Tacoma]

I said before he owed his entire rep to Pop for sending Kawhi to Toronto and not to LA and got absolutely lambasted by the Raps fans for it I still stand by that opinion

As you should have been. Look at what he did in Denver and with the Bargs trade.

He does seem to get too attached to his creations so maybe there's a shelf life. But he's been fantastic all in all.

There's a common thread to the Melo trade in DEN and Bargnani trade in TOR, and that's James Dolan.

Dolan was so spooked by how Ujiri cleaned his clock with Melo and Bargs that he vetoed a trade that would've sent Lowry to the Knicks. Dolan saved Masai's ass because had the Dolan veto not happened, no Lowry in Toronto and no 2019 Championship.

[Quattro]

It never ceases to amaze me how many realgm posters think they know better than a guy as successful as Ujiri. The NBA should really be mining this place for future management jobs

[nikster]

I said before he owed his entire rep to Pop for sending Kawhi to Toronto and not to LA and got absolutely lambasted by the Raps fans for it I still stand by that opinion

As you should have been. Look at what he did in Denver and with the Bargs trade.

He does seem to get too attached to his creations so maybe there's a shelf life. But he's been fantastic all in all.

There's a common thread to the Melo trade in DEN and Bargnani trade in TOR, and that's James Dolan.

Dolan was so spooked by how Ujiri cleaned his clock with Melo and Bargs that he vetoed a trade that would've sent Lowry to the Knicks. Dolan saved Masai's ass because had the Dolan veto not happened, no Lowry in Toronto and no 2019 Championship.

Thats a ridiclous line if reasoning. That vetoed Lowry trade was 6 years before the title. You can do that with so many titles teams, One little thing goes different and they dont have a key player. Tyson Chandler doesn't end up on the Mavs and Dirk doesn't have a ring. The Celtics core were built on a horrible trade by the Nets.

Why is Masai so lucky to have one time All NBA 3rd team player Kyle Lowry to build around?

[ImSlower]

It never ceases to amaze me how many realgm posters think they know better than a guy as successful as Ujiri. The NBA should really be mining this place for future management jobs

Show me an internet sports forum where posters don't question their team of choice's decisions every day. Every team. Every sport. Ask any guy in a sports bar tonight about his team's coaching or FO decisions. We wouldn't be sports fans if we didn't occasionally rant to others about what our team *should* have done. I mean come on look at the name of this forum!

[One_and_Done]

The fact Masai was saved from himself is notable. He would have traded away Lowey if not for Dolan, which would have been a disaster.

[TheFutureMM]

Ujiri has had an incredible run in Toronto. His time with us though feels like there are two distinct chapters.

He is fully responsible for that championship team and deserves a lions share of the credit. The Bargnani trade, the Leonard trade, the Gasol trade, the Ibaka trade. Drafting FVV, Siakam, OG, Norm (among others). Hiring Nick Nurse. Like give me a break - that stretch from 2014 to 2019 is a master class in GMing. Yes, some of that is absolutely luck (KD and Klay going down in the Finals / not trading Lowry) but you can't nail that many moves on pure luck alone and it would be outrageous to think so. Kawhi bolting in 2020 (which in hind site was probably a mistake on his end) ended a pretty insane streak and even then the team fought valiantly in the bubble. I think if Kawhi doesn't bolt we're back in the Finals and even though he never led us on (was pretty clear about LA being the only spot for him), I'm 100% onboard with Ujiri in believing that Kawhi would have had to have been crazy to leave a literal championship contender coming off of a title (though, as we've learned, Kawhi is a different dude).

The issue we ran into was Ujiri's refusal to blow it all up after 2020. Ujiri had tasted the forbidden fruit and was clinging to the fact that we were one disgruntled superstar away from being back in the mix. I think he was looking for his next Kawhi trade and when Barnes appeared, he drank the koolaid a little too hard, and talked himself into thinking he was going to be that guy. Turns out he's not (he's pretty good though) and in the process held on way too long to Pascal, FVV, and OG who somehow together on the Raptors were worse than the sum of their collective parts (doesn't help that Barnes and Siakam did not fit together well).

Now we're here in an OK spot. We own all our own picks, we've got a young All-Star level player who hasn't quite reached his ceiling, and we don't have any terrible contracts on the books. Aside from that though - I don't think there is anything to be particularly excited about. Beyond Barnes, I'm not terribly excited about our crop of young talent. I also think we're going to be too good to be bad but not good enough to do anything interesting.

I'd be fine giving Ujiri one more kick at the can to see what he can do but I also wouldn't be heartbroken if we switched it up - I just can't possibly see who we would get who would be better.

[Pointgod]

Ujiri has had an incredible run in Toronto. His time with us though feels like there are two distinct chapters.

He is fully responsible for that championship team and deserves a lions share of the credit. The Bargnani trade, the Leonard trade, the Gasol trade, the Ibaka trade. Drafting FVV, Siakam, OG, Norm (among others). Hiring Nick Nurse. Like give me a break - that stretch from 2014 to 2019 is a master class in GMing. Yes, some of that is absolutely luck (KD and Klay going down in the Finals / not trading Lowry) but you can't nail that many moves on pure luck alone and it would be outrageous to think so. Kawhi bolting in 2020 (which in hind site was probably a mistake on his end) ended a pretty insane streak and even then the team fought valiantly in the bubble. I think if Kawhi doesn't bolt we're back in the Finals and even though he never led us on (was pretty clear about LA being the only spot for him), I'm 100% onboard with Ujiri in believing that Kawhi would have had to have been crazy to leave a literal championship contender coming off of a title (though, as we've learned, Kawhi is a different dude).

The issue we ran into was Ujiri's refusal to blow it all up after 2020. Ujiri had tasted the forbidden fruit and was clinging to the fact that we were one disgruntled superstar away from being back in the mix. I think he was looking for his next Kawhi trade and when Barnes appeared, he drank the koolaid a little too hard, and talked himself into thinking he was going to be that guy. Turns out he's not (he's pretty good though) and in the process held on way too long to Pascal, FVV, and OG who somehow together on the Raptors were worse than the sum of their collective parts (doesn't help that Barnes and Siakam did not fit together well).

Now we're here in an OK spot. We own all our own picks, we've got a young All-Star level player who hasn't quite reached his ceiling, and we don't have any terrible contracts on the books. Aside from that though - I don't think there is anything to be particularly excited about. Beyond Barnes, I'm not terribly excited about our crop of young talent. I also think we're going to be too good to be bad but not good enough to do anything interesting.

I'd be fine giving Ujiri one more kick at the can to see what he can do but I also wouldn't be heartbroken if we switched it up - I just can't possibly see who we would get who would be better.

I think this is a fair assessment that gives Masai credit for his past success but also recognizes how underwhelming the post championship seasons have been and how meh we’re setup for the future.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

It's probably time for him to go... Mans has been MID for a while now.

it's always tricky to understand the value of an executive, when you don't know what is the mandate he received from ownership

[LascelleL]

I said before he owed his entire rep to Pop for sending Kawhi to Toronto and not to LA and got absolutely lambasted by the Raps fans for it I still stand by that opinion

Because to say this means you have no idea of the mess Bryan Colangelo left behind when Masai took over. We went from barely make the playoffs to being a team that was in the Top 4 from 2013-2020. We made it to the ECF under Ujiri which was a record and then we played for a championship and won. The Kahwi move was a brilliant one and we're grateful Pop stood on business but you don't get the type of synergy or depth we had unless you have a GM with vision. Pascal, FVV, Norm, OG like those are Masai guys that BC wouldn't have chose.

Please don't ever disrespect Masai again.