Where Does Kevin Durant Rank All Time?

[Run DLC]

#1 He’s the real GOAT.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Kinda crazy that KD has only won 1 MVP.

Kinda crazy that he won even one

Basketball skills he might be top 30

Leadership, BB IQ and ability to play within a team he’s not even top 150 in the league , rather rock bottom of the league

what do you question about his iq and ability to play within a team? Hes great at moving without the ball, both around the 3 point line, as a popper, and a cutter. his team defense has been great. he was consistently a very active rim defender. in golden state he was the most active/effective non-center rim protector that wasnt named draymond. shows his ability to rotate.

he has playoff runs where hes doubled his assists while keeping his turnovers at a similar level to the regular season. I thought the series against the bucks where he was alone showed how much his IQ had grown, and his performance on the warriors and now on the suns shows how well he fits in a team.

Durant is currently playing with a bunch of iso guys that dont really guard and a center that doesnt space the floor or finish well, or defend at a high level and still elevates those lineups.

the only knocks i have on him are that hes too weak both physically and emotionally to be in my top 13

He can’t pass the ball out of double teams to save his life

His bbiq gotta be the lowest in entire league , he makes the same mistakes often running into double teams then blames his teammates for this

He got no Leadership values whatsoever , Draymond wasn’t wrong

[tsherkin]

His bbiq gotta be the lowest in entire league

So this is definitely inaccurate.

He got no Leadership values whatsoever , Draymond wasn’t wrong

This part is pretty spot-on, though.

[JustBuzzin]

Definitely not in my top 10. Great talent, but the teams he played on he should have more than 2 championships.

Curry saved his career dude was ringless before he joined GSW. He's been ringless since he left despite playing with other great players.


If he wins a championship with PHX I might move him in my top 10 later on.

[12footrim]

Karl Malone ahead of Hakeem, Moses Malone, Bill Russell and Kobe?

Yes. He has 2 MVP's in an era with Jordan being the same age, is the 3rd leading scorer of all time, and his longevity is nearly unmatched by anyone not named LeBron. He also has a higher PER, BPM despite playing nearly every game every year until he was 40. None of those players could do that.

This is individual and I don't see the fact he ran into the bulls dynasty in the two finals he made as an indictment on him personally. His teammates were Greg Ostertage, Byron Russell and Jeff Hornecek.He couldn't control anything about the team around him or playing in Utah, and championships are a team game and not the end all be all. The Lakers had the highest payroll in the NBA the years Kobe won it and a lot more around him. I think he's generally over rated anyway when you look at the efficiency. Bill Russell played in an era with 8 teams and shot 44% which even for that time was trash.

Hakeem played in the same era, won 2 championships, had a better playoff PER, was a better defender, and most years had worse teammates. I noticed you didn’t mention John Stockton with Karl Malone’s teammates.

PER doesn’t account for defense well, where Hakeem was much more impactful. PER also doesn’t account for Russel’s defense, especially since they didn’t record blocks back then.

Edit: and since you’re so critical of Russel shooting 44% here are some playoff shooting percentages for Karl Malone:

87: 42%
90: 43.8%
97: 43.5%
99: 41.7%

Good grief, you act like it isn't close or something with one spot separating Malone and Olajawon in the rankings and Moses Malone right after. BPM is listed there as well which does take into account wining impact (and defense), for which it's not even close with Malone and the ones you mentioned. I see you skipped over that. VORP isn't close either....

Malone's per possession value stats like PER are affected by playing UNTIL HE WAS 40 at that level and usage roles he did. They were higher if he had stopped being relevant when those other players did 2 or 3 years earlier. For example if Olajawon tried to play the same lenght of time and role and usage, games, minutes etc he would have driven his numbers in the ground, so longevity is a big ass deal that you allow no context on.

[NZB2323]

Yes. He has 2 MVP's in an era with Jordan being the same age, is the 3rd leading scorer of all time, and his longevity is nearly unmatched by anyone not named LeBron. He also has a higher PER, BPM despite playing nearly every game every year until he was 40. None of those players could do that.

This is individual and I don't see the fact he ran into the bulls dynasty in the two finals he made as an indictment on him personally. His teammates were Greg Ostertage, Byron Russell and Jeff Hornecek.He couldn't control anything about the team around him or playing in Utah, and championships are a team game and not the end all be all. The Lakers had the highest payroll in the NBA the years Kobe won it and a lot more around him. I think he's generally over rated anyway when you look at the efficiency. Bill Russell played in an era with 8 teams and shot 44% which even for that time was trash.

Hakeem played in the same era, won 2 championships, had a better playoff PER, was a better defender, and most years had worse teammates. I noticed you didn’t mention John Stockton with Karl Malone’s teammates.

PER doesn’t account for defense well, where Hakeem was much more impactful. PER also doesn’t account for Russel’s defense, especially since they didn’t record blocks back then.

Edit: and since you’re so critical of Russel shooting 44% here are some playoff shooting percentages for Karl Malone:

87: 42%
90: 43.8%
97: 43.5%
99: 41.7%

Good grief, you act like it isn't close or something with one spot separating Malone and Olajawon in the rankings and Moses Malone right after. BPM is listed there as well which does take into account wining impact (and defense), for which it's not even close with Malone and the ones you mentioned. I see you skipped over that. VORP isn't close either....

Malone's per possession value stats like PER are affected by playing UNTIL HE WAS 40 at that level and usage roles he did. They were higher if he had stopped being relevant when those other players did 2 or 3 years earlier. For example if Olajawon tried to play the same lenght of time and role and usage, games, minutes etc he would have driven his numbers in the ground, so longevity is a big ass deal that you allow no context on.

VORP is a cumulative stat. I’d rather a player have a dominant playoff run, like Moses in 83 or Hakeem in 94 than a player who comes up short in the playoffs but plays until they’re 40. And if you go by VORP then Malone isn’t even the best player on his own team as Stockton has a higher career VORP. And Hakeem has a higher playoff VORP.

For the playoffs, Karl Malone is 48th in BPM, right behind Embiid. Hakeem is 10th. Stockton is 20th.

[Saberestar]

Kinda crazy that he won even one

Basketball skills he might be top 30

Leadership, BB IQ and ability to play within a team he’s not even top 150 in the league , rather rock bottom of the league

what do you question about his iq and ability to play within a team? Hes great at moving without the ball, both around the 3 point line, as a popper, and a cutter. his team defense has been great. he was consistently a very active rim defender. in golden state he was the most active/effective non-center rim protector that wasnt named draymond. shows his ability to rotate.

he has playoff runs where hes doubled his assists while keeping his turnovers at a similar level to the regular season. I thought the series against the bucks where he was alone showed how much his IQ had grown, and his performance on the warriors and now on the suns shows how well he fits in a team.

Durant is currently playing with a bunch of iso guys that dont really guard and a center that doesnt space the floor or finish well, or defend at a high level and still elevates those lineups.

the only knocks i have on him are that hes too weak both physically and emotionally to be in my top 13

He can’t pass the ball out of double teams to save his life

His bbiq gotta be the lowest in entire league , he makes the same mistakes often running into double teams then blames his teammates for this

He got no Leadership values whatsoever , Draymond wasn’t wrong

Translation:
Nets fan who loved him and is still furious because he wanted out.

[ty 4191]

Bill Russell shot 44% which even for that time was trash.

This is false.

[12footrim]

Bill Russell shot 44% which even for that time was trash.

This is false.

Excuse me, I guess I need to be more clear.

For the **** elite centers like Wilt. I thought it was obvious the context. 9% less by your own number is pathetic if you are talking about a top 11 guy like the other person wanted to lift him up to be. Wilt could play in any era, Russell could not, it's pretty obvious. The people that want to to try to rank him because of "championships" in a league with 8 teams only half step it and wimp out. If it's only about freaking championships like you want to pretend then have the balls to put him 1st.

[ty 4191]

Bill Russell shot 44% which even for that time was trash.

This is false.

Excuse me, I guess I need to be more clear.

For the **** elite centers like Wilt. I thought it was obvious the context. 9% less by your own number is pathetic if you are talking about a top 11 guy like the other person wanted to lift him up to be. Wilt could play in any era, Russell could not, it's pretty obvious. The people that want to to try to rank him because of "championships" in a league with 8 teams only half step it and wimp out. If it's only about freaking championships like you want to pretend then have the balls to put him 1st.

1. Russell is not my GOAT. Certainly not. Just in his own timeframe alone, Wilt was a better/greater player.

2. There were not 8 teams Russell's entire career.

1955–1961: 8 teams
1961–1966 : 9 teams
1966–1967: 10 teams
1967–1968: 12 teams
1968–1970: 14 teams

3. You talk about expansion like it's great for the NBA and NBA league quality/depth/skill of the average player. IT ISN'T.

Consider these facts about expansion:

--In 1965-1966 there were SIX HOF Starting Centers on those NINE teams. There were 34 HOF players on rosters that year (on only 9 teams).

--In 1968-1969 there were (still) 9 starting HOF Centers on 14 teams. There were 38 HOF players on rosters that year (on only 14 teams).

--In Kareem's greatest season (1976-1977) there were 8 starting HOF Centers on 22 teams. There were 41 HOF players on all 22 teams that season.

--Fast forward to Jordan's greatest season (1990-1991). 8 HOF SG's on 27 teams. There were 34 HOF players playing that year on 27 teams.

Does THIS look like it strengthens the league!?!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KfFmPYlS0Mx00w0hri6LoGASkES3DWfBY25Q8vhHWoA/edit?gid=0#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cI21cqOHf0AmhLVKVZMmJPWy6Lp8zX3M95GDUCI232k/edit?gid=0#gid=0

It adds trash players and teams and makes the league debased severely as a result, for years.

[NZB2323]

Bill Russell shot 44% which even for that time was trash.

This is false.

Excuse me, I guess I need to be more clear.

For the **** elite centers like Wilt. I thought it was obvious the context. 9% less by your own number is pathetic if you are talking about a top 11 guy like the other person wanted to lift him up to be. Wilt could play in any era, Russell could not, it's pretty obvious. The people that want to to try to rank him because of "championships" in a league with 8 teams only half step it and wimp out. If it's only about freaking championships like you want to pretend then have the balls to put him 1st.

So shooting 9% less than the best center is pathetic?

1997 playoffs
Hakeem: 59%
Malone: 43.5%

1999 playoffs
Duncan: 51.1%
Malone: 41.7%

What’s sad is people think Malone was dominant those years because he won MVP and made it to the finals in 97.

Russell beat Wilt, Jerry West, and Elgin Baylor in 69. He also beat Wilt, Chet Walker, Hal Greer, and Billy Cunningham in 67. He also beat Wilt and Paul Arizin in 62. He holds the record for most playoff rebounds even though there were less rounds back then.

Maybe we can rank players by championships, MVPs, peak, longevity, playoff performance, defense, intangibles, and stats?

Karl Malone is James Harden. A dude who has great longevity, makes the playoffs, wins MVP, and comes up short in the playoffs.

[ty 4191]

[b]So shooting 9% less than the best center is pathetic?
[/b}.

Great point.

And the same idiot posting incessantly that expansion is great for league depth/quality is a dumb**s. "There were only nine teams ergo the league obviously sucked" type bullshi*.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KfFmPYlS0Mx00w0hri6LoGASkES3DWfBY25Q8vhHWoA/edit?gid=0#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cI21cqOHf0AmhLVKVZMmJPWy6Lp8zX3M95GDUCI232k/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Yeah....expansion is great for league depth and quality. It doesn't....you know....degrade league quality AT ALL. LOL!

[ArksNetsSince99]

what do you question about his iq and ability to play within a team? Hes great at moving without the ball, both around the 3 point line, as a popper, and a cutter. his team defense has been great. he was consistently a very active rim defender. in golden state he was the most active/effective non-center rim protector that wasnt named draymond. shows his ability to rotate.

he has playoff runs where hes doubled his assists while keeping his turnovers at a similar level to the regular season. I thought the series against the bucks where he was alone showed how much his IQ had grown, and his performance on the warriors and now on the suns shows how well he fits in a team.

Durant is currently playing with a bunch of iso guys that dont really guard and a center that doesnt space the floor or finish well, or defend at a high level and still elevates those lineups.

the only knocks i have on him are that hes too weak both physically and emotionally to be in my top 13

He can’t pass the ball out of double teams to save his life

His bbiq gotta be the lowest in entire league , he makes the same mistakes often running into double teams then blames his teammates for this

He got no Leadership values whatsoever , Draymond wasn’t wrong

Translation:
Nets fan who loved him and is still furious because he wanted out.

I wanted him out before he wanted out

[TFJava]

Top 10.

[Revived]

what do you question about his iq and ability to play within a team? Hes great at moving without the ball, both around the 3 point line, as a popper, and a cutter. his team defense has been great. he was consistently a very active rim defender. in golden state he was the most active/effective non-center rim protector that wasnt named draymond. shows his ability to rotate.

he has playoff runs where hes doubled his assists while keeping his turnovers at a similar level to the regular season. I thought the series against the bucks where he was alone showed how much his IQ had grown, and his performance on the warriors and now on the suns shows how well he fits in a team.

Durant is currently playing with a bunch of iso guys that dont really guard and a center that doesnt space the floor or finish well, or defend at a high level and still elevates those lineups.

the only knocks i have on him are that hes too weak both physically and emotionally to be in my top 13

He can’t pass the ball out of double teams to save his life

His bbiq gotta be the lowest in entire league , he makes the same mistakes often running into double teams then blames his teammates for this

He got no Leadership values whatsoever , Draymond wasn’t wrong

Translation:
Nets fan who loved him and is still furious because he wanted out.

Alternate translation: Nets fan who just watched his team curb stomp Durant’s Suns in Phoenix with Durant turning it over 7 times against the mighty Nets defense.

[Lockdown504090]

He can’t pass the ball out of double teams to save his life

His bbiq gotta be the lowest in entire league , he makes the same mistakes often running into double teams then blames his teammates for this

He got no Leadership values whatsoever , Draymond wasn’t wrong

Translation:
Nets fan who loved him and is still furious because he wanted out.

Alternate translation: Nets fan who just watched his team curb stomp Durant’s Suns in Phoenix with Durant turning it over 7 times against the mighty Nets defense.

If you were to rank all the best player by their ability to pass out of a trap on a pnr, kd would be very low, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a very smart player. Bbiq isn’t some purity test. Nobody is going to say steph can’t shoot because he doesn’t have a midrange pull-up like Michael Jordan and Dirk

[Saberestar]

He can’t pass the ball out of double teams to save his life

His bbiq gotta be the lowest in entire league , he makes the same mistakes often running into double teams then blames his teammates for this

He got no Leadership values whatsoever , Draymond wasn’t wrong

Translation:
Nets fan who loved him and is still furious because he wanted out.

Alternate translation: Nets fan who just watched his team curb stomp Durant’s Suns in Phoenix with Durant turning it over 7 times against the mighty Nets defense.

LOL, and the game before against the Lakers he had 0 TOs. One game doesn't change anything in the big picture.

"His basketball IQ gotta be the lowest in entire league" is a ridiculous and full of hate comment. Period.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Translation:
Nets fan who loved him and is still furious because he wanted out.

Alternate translation: Nets fan who just watched his team curb stomp Durant’s Suns in Phoenix with Durant turning it over 7 times against the mighty Nets defense.

LOL, and the game before against the Lakers he had 0 TOs. One game doesn't change anything in the big picture.

"His basketball IQ gotta be the lowest in entire league" is a ridiculous and full of hate comment. Period.

Bro watch Nets vs Celtics 1 round PO series , you will understand why is not a hate , Durant was turnover machine ,bad passes , bad shots , he made bad decision after bad decision , I never saw a superstar who got so small and plain stupid ever before and ever after

After this series I wanted Durant of my team and all of this is well documented on the nets board from this period of time , way before he ever demand the trade first time

Edit , it’s not one game sample , it’s entire series , 4 games , a sweep

There was only two players worth mentioning who played well in this series on the Nets side , Kyrie Irving game 2 , Bruce Brown all 4 games , the rest of the series was sabotaged and lost by mighty KD , he made everyone worse by his boneheaded plays

Edit 2 , from the Nets trio I don’t miss Durant and Harden really and I’m honest , you know who I miss ?

Kyrie Irving , lots of bad blood between him and our front office but dude was a baller , I do miss Kyrie

Bruce Brown , always gave Nets his 200% , hard working role player

Uncle Jeff ,thankfully both of them him and Bruce won their championship with the Nuggets

honorable mention , your own Goran Dragic , he gave his all too either though when he got on the Nets he was pretty washed by then

[ArksNetsSince99]

Translation:
Nets fan who loved him and is still furious because he wanted out.

Alternate translation: Nets fan who just watched his team curb stomp Durant’s Suns in Phoenix with Durant turning it over 7 times against the mighty Nets defense.

If you were to rank all the best player by their ability to pass out of a trap on a pnr, kd would be very low, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a very smart player. Bbiq isn’t some purity test. Nobody is going to say steph can’t shoot because he doesn’t have a midrange pull-up like Michael Jordan and Dirk

What would you call Steph if he miss midrange pull up , shot after shot , every possession, smart bbiq player ?

[Grahf]

15-20 range, slightly below the KG/Dirk tier. Absolutely incredible player, but I just can't get over the fact that everyone in the top 15 was able to lead their team to a championship. KD could never do it, even with two future MVPs on his roster. He had a chance to dethrone the 73 win Warriors and make history, but he wilted against them.

Maybe it's unfair to judge him this way, but the margin between the players in the 11 through 20 range is so slim that this does make a difference.