NBA is considering European expansion. Real Madrid, PSG, Man City, team in Germany are on the list

[peZt]

There is no way a new league with new teams is going to compete toe to toe with the EuroLeague in Europe.

The actual NBA itself is far less popular than the EuroLeague is in Europe.

The notion that a European version of the G League is going to win a battle with the EuroLeague, in Europe, is actually just downright comical and silly.

If the NBA doesn’t do this as a joint venture with the cooperation of the EuroLeague together, NBA Europe will be probably be shut down within like five years or so.

I agree that it shouldn't be a g-league. However, in western Europe there are far more nba than euroleague fans. Many western European fans consider Euro basketball unwatchable.

Yeah, it is interesting to see how European basketball fans seem to not grasp this. The money is to be made in countries like UK, Germnay and France (I am really surprised there is no Amsterdam-team proposed) where the interest in EuroLeague is minor and the potential is the biggest. both because interest in basketball is mainly for NBA and also not very high, but also because there is so much more money in the west)

On Reddit I also saw so many posts not understanding this. There were even comments like "The NBA Europe should have teams in Lithuania and the Balkans".

Yeah there is a reason those guys are commenting on Reddit and are not paid to come up with Business Ideas for a multi billion dollar company lol.
Sounds like a great idea to basicaly copy what the Euroleague does. A competition that is a failing business and is losing money

Mirotic12 is gonna get an anaurysm but you can't build a profitable league around the eastern european clubs. No money there, not enough fans, not enough public interest outside of their city and simply not interesting enough. I can guarantee you no german will watch Zalgiris - Red Star Belgrade in the Euroleague.
They might watch Manchester United vs. Chelsea with the NBA branding. There are not enough Euroleague fans in Europe to build a profitable business around. You need to cater and tap to untapped markets that have potential. And that is a Chelsea in a 8 million people metropolis with millions of fans worlwide; not Zalgiris in a 300k city with no fans outside of Lithuania.

And no mirotic12, there are not more Euroleauge fans than NBA fans in Europe. Maybe in countries like Greece or Serbia. But how many people live there? Certainly in the big european countries the NBA is more popular. I dont know a single person here in Germany who watchces the Euroleague outside of Bayern Munich fans.
Im also turkish and the only people watching Euroleague in Turkey are Fenerbahce and Efes fans. But those woudl also watch NBA Europe. You dont lose any fans with NBA Europe. But you gain a lot of potential fans who were not yet Euroleague fans.
The NBA wants to cater to people who are not already Euroleague fans because there are not enough Euroleague fans to build a profitable league around.

The only people watching Euroleague are:
1) The fans of the teams participating: These fans will still watch NBA Europe if their team is in there, so you dont lose anyone
2) Hardcore Euroleague fans who watch despite not having a team there: This is a miniscule amount. The NBA will MAYBE lose these fans. But they couldn't care less because how many hardocre Euroleague fans are there?? You are the exception in Europe Mirotic, not the norm. And just because Euroleague is popular in Greece does not mean anything in the grand scheme of things. You have 10m people in Greece. There are 8m in London alone. You always keep reproducing your experiences in Greece to the whole of Europe. Nobody outside of hardcore fans in Greece, Ex-Yugoslavia and Baltics cares about Euroleague. NO ONE. Its completely irrelevant outside of these regions. ANd these regions make up maybe 25m population. This is nothing. Just because Euroleague is maybe top 3 league in a region of 25m people, does not make it a popular league in the whole of Europe.

The only people who care about Euroleague outside of these 3 regions are fans of the teams that participate. Eg. Real Madrid Fans, Milano Fans, Barca fans etc. But as I said in 1), these guys will also watch NBA Europe.

BUT they will gain

3) People who were not yet Euroleauge fans but will and might watch NBA Europe. With teams like Chelsea or Manchester United and with the NBA brand in the background and all the production value and marketing that brings with it, you are talking about potentially millions of peopple who never watcheed Euroleague and never cared about it but might watch NBA Europe. Thats the plan

[nzd07]

The world really needs to figure out what a continent is as I'd never consider south america and north america as the same but anyway.

But if I liked soccer I don't know or see why I'd care where the players are from. That concept is so foreign to me...I legit have never once even thought of such a thing. But while I suppose it might seem odd just from a geographic aspect. Would you call the NBA an American league? While the whole "national" thing dates back to wanting to make it clear that it wasn't a regional league. The NBA to me is a world league which happens to play today in the US due to geography and logistics. But it most certainly isn't a national league nor should the teams be seen as national teams as it expands.

For me, especially as an American, states matter more to our identity than the country in many aspects of day to day life. London vs New York City for example are both so foreign to me they both could be other countries. But given that, there's never an expectation the Ohio team, will have Ohio players. Our college teams often barely even have local kids from the state on them. That isn't to say it isn't sometimes cool when they do, see Lebron on the Cavs. But that was more novelty than something expected.

The EuroLeague is more of a world league than the NBA is. It's more international than the NBA is by every single criteria.

By teams, by countries represented, by coaches, by players, in every single way, the EuroLeague is far more of a world league than the NBA is.

That isn't going to mean anything in Europe for NBA Europe. The thing you are not understanding is the teams in Europe have to have a real connection to the local people where they play.

It's not about the league being international or not, it's about the connection to the locality.

Expansion teams very rarely ever work in Europe. It's way, way, way harder to make a successful expansion team in Europe than it is in the US.

You are so disingenuous. OP was clearly talking about global influence outside of their respective zones.

Go to Japan and China and you will see NBA merchandise. You won't see any EuroLeague.

[lambchop]

I agree that it shouldn't be a g-league. However, in western Europe there are far more nba than euroleague fans. Many western European fans consider Euro basketball unwatchable.

Yeah, it is interesting to see how European basketball fans seem to not grasp this. The money is to be made in countries like UK, Germnay and France (I am really surprised there is no Amsterdam-team proposed) where the interest in EuroLeague is minor and the potential is the biggest. both because interest in basketball is mainly for NBA and also not very high, but also because there is so much more money in the west)

On Reddit I also saw so many posts not understanding this. There were even comments like "The NBA Europe should have teams in Lithuania and the Balkans".

Yeah there is a reason those guys are commenting on Reddit and are not paid to come up with Business Ideas for a multi billion dollar company lol.
Sounds like a great idea to basicaly copy what the Euroleague does. A competition that is a failing business and is losing money

Mirotic12 is gonna get an anaurysm but you can't build a profitable league around the eastern european clubs. No money there, not enough fans, not enough public interest outside of their city and simply not interesting enough. I can guarantee you no german will watch Zalgiris - Red Star Belgrade in the Euroleague.
They might watch Manchester United vs. Chelsea with the NBA branding. There are not enough Euroleague fans in Europe to build a profitable business around. You need to cater and tap to untapped markets that have potential. And that is a Chelsea in a 8 million people metropolis with millions of fans worlwide; not Zalgiris in a 300k city with no fans outside of Lithuania.

And no mirotic12, there are not more Euroleauge fans than NBA fans in Europe. Maybe in countries like Greece or Serbia. But how many people live there? Certainly in the big european countries the NBA is more popular. I dont know a single person here in Germany who watchces the Euroleague outside of Bayern Munich fans.
Im also turkish and the only people watching Euroleague in Turkey are Fenerbahce and Efes fans. But those woudl also watch NBA Europe. You dont lose any fans with NBA Europe. But you gain a lot of potential fans who were not yet Euroleague fans.
The NBA wants to cater to people who are not already Euroleague fans because there are not enough Euroleague fans to build a profitable league around.

The only people watching Euroleague are:
1) The fans of the teams participating: These fans will still watch NBA Europe if their team is in there, so you dont lose anyone
2) Hardcore Euroleague fans who watch despite not having a team there: This is a miniscule amount. The NBA will MAYBE lose these fans. But they couldn't care less because how many hardocre Euroleague fans are there?? You are the exception in Europe Mirotic, not the norm. And just because Euroleague is popular in Greece does not mean anything in the grand scheme of things. You have 10m people in Greece. There are 8m in London alone. You always keep reproducing your experiences in Greece to the whole of Europe. Nobody outside of hardcore fans in Greece, Ex-Yugoslavia and Baltics cares about Euroleague. NO ONE. Its completely irrelevant outside of these regions. ANd these regions make up maybe 25m population. This is nothing. Just because Euroleague is maybe top 3 league in a region of 25m people, does not make it a popular league in the whole of Europe.

The only people who care about Euroleague outside of these 3 regions are fans of the teams that participate. Eg. Real Madrid Fans, Milano Fans, Barca fans etc. But as I said in 1), these guys will also watch NBA Europe.

BUT they will gain

3) People who were not yet Euroleauge fans but will and might watch NBA Europe. With teams like Chelsea or Manchester United and with the NBA brand in the background and all the production value and marketing that brings with it, you are talking about potentially millions of peopple who never watcheed Euroleague and never cared about it but might watch NBA Europe. Thats the plan

Yep. Excellent analysis by both of you. Serbia and Lithuania are simply too small. In addition, Serbian teams both get significant financial support from the government. No one even knows if the government will still be around in 2027. Thus, why would the NBA invest in that?

Another factor that was mentioned earlier is how teams like Zalgiris value domestic players. Spanish fans have shown unwavering support, even in the absence of Spanish players, same goes for Turkish teams. But it's hard to envision a Zalgiris team with zero Lithuanians getting the same amount of support.

Would the red star atmosphere be the same without the political chants, Serbian flags, Russian flags, anti NATO flags etc.? It would surely feel different in an entirely family friendly environment.

Anyway, I'm not trying to derail the thread with politics, but am simply considering actual factors that might carry weight in the decision making process.

Finally, how would fans handle tanking? It wouldn't matter to German nba fans who just want to watch the game. But how about we tell the Zalgiris and Partizan faithful to continue filling up arenas knowing that an intentional loss is coming.

And I fully expect Dubai to be added to the pool soon. They're another excellent location with countless fans that just want to watch nba basketball, regardless of who is playing.

[Mirotic12]

Ah so the right way would be to copy the eurolague? A failing competition and business that nobody cares about?

If you want to build a new league from the ground up and your priority is profitability, you chose cities like London and Paris, not Kaunas or Belgrade.

The nba doesn’t care about past and present basketball pedrigree. They only care about potential market and revenue.

And a team like Chelsea, from a 8 million metropolis and with millions of fans worldwide has a way bigger potential to draw revenue than a team like zalgiris. London has 3x the population of Lithuania alone

It makes 0! Sense to copy what the Euroleague does and then hope it becomes ansfhitn else than what the Euroleauge already is: a failure that is completely irrelevant outside of the cities that participate

There is no way a new league with new teams is going to compete toe to toe with the EuroLeague in Europe.

The actual NBA itself is far less popular than the EuroLeague is in Europe.

The notion that a European version of the G League is going to win a battle with the EuroLeague, in Europe, is actually just downright comical and silly.

If the NBA doesn’t do this as a joint venture with the cooperation of the EuroLeague together, NBA Europe will be probably be shut down within like five years or so.

I agree that it shouldn't be a g-league. However, in western Europe there are far more nba than euroleague fans. Many western European fans consider Euro basketball unwatchable.

EuroLeague playoffs and final four have always had higher ratings than NBA playoffs and finals in western Europe.

[Tukkerwolf]

There is no way a new league with new teams is going to compete toe to toe with the EuroLeague in Europe.

The actual NBA itself is far less popular than the EuroLeague is in Europe.

The notion that a European version of the G League is going to win a battle with the EuroLeague, in Europe, is actually just downright comical and silly.

If the NBA doesn’t do this as a joint venture with the cooperation of the EuroLeague together, NBA Europe will be probably be shut down within like five years or so.

I agree that it shouldn't be a g-league. However, in western Europe there are far more nba than euroleague fans. Many western European fans consider Euro basketball unwatchable.

EuroLeague playoffs and final four have always had higher ratings than NBA playoffs and finals in western Europe.

Couple of things: The NBA is obviously played in the middle of the night, which severely influences ratings.
Secondly: Are you sure? I don't need do be convinced that in Spain this is the case, but in the UK? Netherlands? Belgium? Ratings
Last: ratings are not the most important. A household paying €15 per month in subscription to watch the games is worth more than a couple of households with boomers that keep their tv on while the are posting facebook with their neighbors...

[dantas]

It would be a G League in Europe, but with powerful brands (Real Madrid, Barcelona, ​​Bayern).

Perhaps NBA would establish a standard of conduct (stadiums, referees, coaches, etc.).

European basketball purists might not like it, as the new league would have NBA rules: minutes, contact, etc.

But brands might want to associate with NBA, even in a development league, as they would have more global exposure than the Euroleague, and more money. They could also benefit from NBA's logistical standards. European players would have a better gateway to the United States, with rules and systems already adapted. And NBA could increase league viewership and product consumption in a market with purchasing power.

How would the European teams have more money? They would have to spend a crazy amount of money to get the league franchise and they would lose the sponsor and TV money they get now from EuroLeague. They would also lose the league money they get from being co owners in EuroLeague.

In addition to that, they would have to split all money with the NBA and FIBA.

They might get more marketing and exposure, but it would be extremely unlikely they would have more money.

Debates seem to be in their early stages, so we don't know much yet. But many Euroleague teams operate at a deficit. And the Euroleague is almost invisible in terms of global exposure outside of hardcore basketball fans. So, I think it's likely that it will profit more from increased marketing and visibility, but we don't know for sure yet.

[dhsilv2]

There is no way a new league with new teams is going to compete toe to toe with the EuroLeague in Europe.

The actual NBA itself is far less popular than the EuroLeague is in Europe.

The notion that a European version of the G League is going to win a battle with the EuroLeague, in Europe, is actually just downright comical and silly.

If the NBA doesn’t do this as a joint venture with the cooperation of the EuroLeague together, NBA Europe will be probably be shut down within like five years or so.

I agree that it shouldn't be a g-league. However, in western Europe there are far more nba than euroleague fans. Many western European fans consider Euro basketball unwatchable.

EuroLeague playoffs and final four have always had higher ratings than NBA playoffs and finals in western Europe.

Next you're going to tell me they show the playoffs during normal hours for human's to be awake and watching sports!

[RipHamilton]

This is comical. European fans have the vastly superior euroleague on their doorstep why would they pay more to attend the clownball show that is the NBA

They want to watch NBA basketball vs Fiba? Bigger courts, more emphasis on athletic ability, deeper 3's, and a significantly longer game?

So basically, worse basketball.

No, thanks.

[Mephariel]

This is comical. European fans have the vastly superior euroleague on their doorstep why would they pay more to attend the clownball show that is the NBA

They want to watch NBA basketball vs Fiba? Bigger courts, more emphasis on athletic ability, deeper 3's, and a significantly longer game?

So basically, worse basketball.

No, thanks.

You mean the best basketball in the world? The NBA is the premier basketball league in the world, like it or not.

[Raps in 4]

Would Europeans even watch a sport with a salary cap? They love their oligarch-run sports leagues where the team with the richest owner automatically wins the league. I can see Madrid fans tuning out when they realize their team can't spend 10x as much money on player salaries as the Thunder. Or when they realize there is a draft for young players and they can't just spend hundreds of millions of dollars signing all the best prospects every year.

[dhsilv2]

This is comical. European fans have the vastly superior euroleague on their doorstep why would they pay more to attend the clownball show that is the NBA

They want to watch NBA basketball vs Fiba? Bigger courts, more emphasis on athletic ability, deeper 3's, and a significantly longer game?

So basically, worse basketball.

No, thanks.

There's like 20 version of "football" played around the world. With 3-4 having pretty serious fan interest and many fans of one having zero interest in the other. FIBA and the NBA seem to be avoiding completely separating, but this might be the push to allow the NBA and FIBA to really move the two sports off into their separate ways.

[Tukkerwolf]

Would Europeans even watch a sport with a salary cap? They love their oligarch-run sports leagues where the team with the richest owner automatically wins the league. I can see Madrid fans tuning out when they realize their team can't spend 10x as much money on player salaries as the Thunder. Or when they realize there is a draft for young players and they can't just spend hundreds of millions of dollars signing all the best prospects every year.

You realize 99% of Europe is NOT a Real Madrid or Liverpool fan, but just of a middling team spending a couple of million per year?

[LuDux1]

G-League? NBA rules? Where are you getting this from?

[zero rings]

Can someone please explain to me why I should tune in to watch the European G-League (which is what this will be)?

Seems like another pointless Adam Silver gimmick

[LuDux1]

Would Europeans even watch a sport with a salary cap? They love their oligarch-run sports leagues where the team with the richest owner automatically wins the league. I can see Madrid fans tuning out when they realize their team can't spend 10x as much money on player salaries as the Thunder. Or when they realize there is a draft for young players and they can't just spend hundreds of millions of dollars signing all the best prospects every year.

https://basketnews.com/news-211714-euroleague-salary-cap-rules-explanation-official-announcement.html

[peZt]

This is comical. European fans have the vastly superior euroleague on their doorstep why would they pay more to attend the clownball show that is the NBA

They want to watch NBA basketball vs Fiba? Bigger courts, more emphasis on athletic ability, deeper 3's, and a significantly longer game?

Congrats on making me agree with MIrotic12 on a topic.
The NBA is a terrible product to watch. It is only saved by its talent. But other than that? I dont know who in their right mind has fun watching a sport with timeouts, ad breaks, commercials and foul calls every 30 seconds. There is 0 flow to an NBA game, its entire purpose is to generate ad revenue, not be a good sport.
And that's why the NBA struggles with ratings, because I genuinely dont know a single non-Basketball fan who enjoys watching NBA. I have heard so many times from friends that they never could watch NBA because they immediately get bored by all the constant interruptions and breaks.
On the other hand I have a lot of non-Basketball fans who enjoyed watching the Eurobasket or Fiba World Cup. Because you have pure Basketball there. Less talent, but no constant timeouts, no 2 minute timeouts, no constant commercials etc.

NBA Europe with NBA ruleset but Fiba talent would be an absolute disaster. You get the worst of both worlds.

Or lets say it like this: Some of the actual Basketball rules of the NBA I like. I prefer the bigger courts and 3-second defensive violation for example. Its the broadcasting rules and and broadcasting framework that I hate. The NBA could be a great product to watch if it simply had fewer timeouts, fewer ad breaks, if each timeout didnt take 2+ minutes, if each coaching challenge didnt take 5 minutes, if the last 2 minutes of the game didnt take 20 minutes, if a 48 minute game didnt take 3 hours to end etc.

The european TV viewer will not accept that. The biggest sprot in the world has 15 minutes of break in 90 minutes of action. Timeouts every 30 seconds, commercial breaks the whole time will not fly in Europe, even the FIBA ruleset is pushing it with the amount of timeouts. Americans enjoy watching Sports inbetween their ad breaks, Europeans want as much sport and as little ads as possible

They want to watch NBA basketball vs Fiba? Bigger courts, more emphasis on athletic ability, deeper 3's, and a significantly longer game?

So basically, worse basketball.

No, thanks.

You mean the best basketball in the world? The NBA is the premier basketball league in the world, like it or not.

Only because of the talent. Now remove the talent or rather make it equal between both leagues and the Euroleague is vastly superior.
So many NBA fans who watch Eurobasket or Olympics say "Man, FIBA is so fun, I didnt realize Basketball could be this fun". I never heard a Euroleague fan say "Man I never knew NBA was so much fun to watch"

Im 100% sure, if you take the broadcasting rules of FIBA and apply it to the NBA with all its talent, the ratings will be much higher long term. Nobody in their right mind could admit to enjoy watching this many ad breaks and timeouts etc.

[LuDux1]

Zalgiris fans explain reasoning for boycot at the beginning of season (google translate)

(..)
Commercialization. After millions of dollars in debt left by one club savior, Žalgiris is choosing a welcome direction – to create a club that is fully capable of supporting itself and never depending on one person. The number of partners and sponsors has been growing in recent years. A “penny by penny” approach is emerging. Many clubs in the world exploit the notoriety of their name by placing it on various products in order to earn additional income. Žalgiris does this most diligently of all Lithuanian, if not European sports organizations. Contracts are signed, according to which the Žalgiris name is given to companies to use as they wish. The absurd goal of having one product with the Žalgiris logo in each product category is also emerging. We joke among ourselves that we will soon have a partnership with Durex.

Are window washer fluid or milk sausages really making Žalgiris rich? The contracts signed do not even cover half of the revenue generated from a single Euroleague game. Is it worth selling your name to anyone, if in many cases only a symbolic amount is paid for it? The goal of putting our club’s name on as many products as possible seems more like a manager’s task, preparing a quarterly report for his boss, than the direction of the legendary club.
(..)
Community. The idea that fans bring in the majority of the budget is not bad in itself and can indeed be the financial foundation of the club. However, when you start calculating how much you can get per match from a fan, Žalgiris risks gradually becoming an elite team in Lithuania.

For this reason, less affluent Kaunas residents and students no longer have enough opportunities to regularly attend matches and the focus has shifted to fans from all over Lithuania who can afford this entertainment.

Thus, the arena is gradually turning into a theater in Euroleague matches. The arena is not attracted to the fan to whom the team means the most, but to the one who can afford to pay a large sum for this entertainment. In our opinion, this is not a sustainable basis for a community. Žalgiris has never been an elite club, it has always attracted patriotic youth, students and, above all, has been a symbol of our city – Kaunas.

We understand that Žalgiris is loved outside Kaunas and among the visiting fans there are those who travel here year after year, and their love for the club is not related to the result. However, being close to the club, attending matches, we see a trend that this part is decreasing, while the number of theater spectators is increasing.
(..)

[Mirotic12]

G-League? NBA rules? Where are you getting this from?

One of the team presidents that attended the meetings with the NBA and FIBA, said that NBA Europe would have NBA rules.

[LuDux1]

G-League? NBA rules? Where are you getting this from?

One of the team presidents that attended the neetings with the NBA and FIBA, said that NBA Europe would have NBA rules.

“The plan envisions the creation of a new basketball organization under a globally recognized brand,” added Hans von Tschammer und Osten. “It will essentially be a carbon copy of the existing one, with a semi-closed pool of clubs that, within a single ecosystem, will be able to advance from a second-tier competition to the elite division. Games may be 48 minutes long, with three timeouts, but we don’t know those details yet.”

“We’re still exploring that. The simple answer is a round-robin format where everyone plays each other, followed by playoffs and finals — likely under European rules, since teams will continue to play in their national leagues.”https://basketnews.com/news-232431-nba-europe-potential-start-date-format-and-number-of-teams-revealed.html

[sashaturiaf]

Spoiler:

This is comical. European fans have the vastly superior euroleague on their doorstep why would they pay more to attend the clownball show that is the NBA

They want to watch NBA basketball vs Fiba? Bigger courts, more emphasis on athletic ability, deeper 3's, and a significantly longer game?

Congrats on making me agree with MIrotic12 on a topic.
The NBA is a terrible product to watch. It is only saved by its talent. But other than that? I dont know who in their right mind has fun watching a sport with timeouts, ad breaks, commercials and foul calls every 30 seconds. There is 0 flow to an NBA game, its entire purpose is to generate ad revenue, not be a good sport.
And that's why the NBA struggles with ratings, because I genuinely dont know a single non-Basketball fan who enjoys watching NBA. I have heard so many times from friends that they never could watch NBA because they immediately get bored by all the constant interruptions and breaks.
On the other hand I have a lot of non-Basketball fans who enjoyed watching the Eurobasket or Fiba World Cup. Because you have pure Basketball there. Less talent, but no constant timeouts, no 2 minute timeouts, no constant commercials etc.

NBA Europe with NBA ruleset but Fiba talent would be an absolute disaster. You get the worst of both worlds.

Or lets say it like this: Some of the actual Basketball rules of the NBA I like. I prefer the bigger courts and 3-second defensive violation for example. Its the broadcasting rules and and broadcasting framework that I hate. The NBA could be a great product to watch if it simply had fewer timeouts, fewer ad breaks, if each timeout didnt take 2+ minutes, if each coaching challenge didnt take 5 minutes, if the last 2 minutes of the game didnt take 20 minutes, if a 48 minute game didnt take 3 hours to end etc.

The european TV viewer will not accept that. The biggest sprot in the world has 15 minutes of break in 90 minutes of action. Timeouts every 30 seconds, commercial breaks the whole time will not fly in Europe, even the FIBA ruleset is pushing it with the amount of timeouts. Americans enjoy watching Sports inbetween their ad breaks, Europeans want as much sport and as little ads as possible

So basically, worse basketball.

No, thanks.

You mean the best basketball in the world? The NBA is the premier basketball league in the world, like it or not.

Only because of the talent. Now remove the talent or rather make it equal between both leagues and the Euroleague is vastly superior.
So many NBA fans who watch Eurobasket or Olympics say "Man, FIBA is so fun, I didnt realize Basketball could be this fun". I never heard a Euroleague fan say "Man I never knew NBA was so much fun to watch"

Im 100% sure, if you take the broadcasting rules of FIBA and apply it to the NBA with all its talent, the ratings will be much higher long term. Nobody in their right mind could admit to enjoy watching this many ad breaks and timeouts etc.

100% on point.

Even if you look past the blantant off court rigging, NBA is still overproduced nonsense, not pure basketball.

I'm fairly sure the majority of the gen Z fans like those on Reddit NBA don't even watch games. They follow the off court media drama like it's a soap opera, and maybe watch a 10 minute condensed clip on YouTube once in a while.