All-NBA discussion

[NBA4Lyfe]

1st: Jokic, Shai, Giannis, Mitchell, Tatum
2nd: Curry, Ant, Zubac, Harden, Mobley
3rd: J Will, Cade, JJJ, Brunson, Amen Thompson

I'm surprised I don't see Amen Thompson much, seems to have a huge impact on games when I watch, backed by stats.

There’s absolutely zero case for leaving LeBron off all-NBA this year. None. And you can’t pretend you’re the objective one here either when you make comments about lebron “being a total liability on defense.” He’s been outstanding defensively this season.

LeBron is #70 in EPM and his team has done better when he's off the court. LeBron making All-NBA would be silly.

lol 2k25 still have lebron rated at a 97 overall last i checked.. for all we know lebron would block his likeness in the game if they gave lebron the "overall" he likely deserves

[HardenGoat]

Hmm, hardens team has the 16th ranked offense and stephs has the 15th ranked offense but one can't be on an all NBA team but the other should be 1st team. I guess that one spot on the rankings makes all the difference.

WEll, the one spot and the individual markers for offensive impact..

And I've never understood this dividing a team into offense and defense stuff and giving credit to the guys who are apparently offensive guys for the offense and defensive guys for the defense.

Well, if you're winning because of your defense and your offense isn't very good, that seems an obvious thing. Yes, if you directly removed him, then they wouldn't be the same on offense, but it's still fairly replaceable stuff.

If Harden's impact stats on offense looked a little better this season, we'd have a little more to talk about, but they aren't. He's not scoring well enough, nor in sufficient volume that his mediocre efficiency is sufficient to drive that level of overall impact to merit an All-NBA selection. As I've already noted.

If you removed him and added say PG13 you would have the Sixers.

[SA37]

Harden was questionable as an All-star selection. No way he should get any consideration for all-NBA even with many players being ineligible.

Curry-Mitchell-Cunningham-Brunson-Edwards-SGA are likely to be the 6 guards selected. Then you have guys like Haliburton, J Brown, and Garland who would def be in front of Harden.

Edwards has been basically identical to harden all season long.

Like literally. 19.9 PER vs 19.8 PER. 0.137 WS48 vs 0.141 for harden. Both exactly 4.2 BPM. Teams with basically same record. Except harden is actually +4.2 on/off and Edwards is -2.0 on/off.

For starters, Edwards is a superior defender. Defense aside, Harden's shooting numbers are dreadful.

Harden has played very well the last two months, but the rest of his season could be confused with any season Trae Young has ever produced or the season LaMelo Ball just produced. Basically, big numbers on a mediocre/bad team. The difference is, Harden got Kawhi back and the Clippers have gone 17-6 since the all-star break which has made a rather average season for the Clippers look better than it actually was.

[RB34]

Out with the old in with the new I say.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Harden was questionable as an All-star selection. No way he should get any consideration for all-NBA even with many players being ineligible.

Curry-Mitchell-Cunningham-Brunson-Edwards-SGA are likely to be the 6 guards selected. Then you have guys like Haliburton, J Brown, and Garland who would def be in front of Harden.

Edwards has been basically identical to harden all season long.

Like literally. 19.9 PER vs 19.8 PER. 0.137 WS48 vs 0.141 for harden. Both exactly 4.2 BPM. Teams with basically same record. Except harden is actually +4.2 on/off and Edwards is -2.0 on/off.

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[giberish]

1st: SGA/Mitchell/Tatum/Giannis/Jokic

2nd: Curry/Hali/Edwards/JJJ/Mobley

3rd: Harden/Cade/J Williams/Amen Thompson/Towns

There's a clear top-4 guys. Mitchell gets the 5th spot in a close call by team performance tiebreaker.

Hali's played at a 1st team level the last 60 games or so but started poorly. Curry's not as consistent as he used to be and has delined some on defense but has carried a limited roster. Edwards is the clear top guy on Minny. JJJ and Mobley provide high level defense and offense.

Cade's individual stats don't quite look as good as Curry/Harden/Edwards but not far off and his meaning for Detroit means he has to make the team. Williams is a bit behind some guys who didn't make it for offense only but he also brings a lot more defense.

The last 3 spots were between Harden/Zubac/Thompson/Segun/Brunson/Towns. I went for one from each team. I didn't really consider LeBron or KD. LeBron's never been the top player on the Lakers (it was AD, then Luka) and his shockingly bad on/off takes him out of the running. KD's defense collapsed - at least in part due to overall Suns issues but that still counts.

[brackdan70]

Harden was questionable as an All-star selection. No way he should get any consideration for all-NBA even with many players being ineligible.

Curry-Mitchell-Cunningham-Brunson-Edwards-SGA are likely to be the 6 guards selected. Then you have guys like Haliburton, J Brown, and Garland who would def be in front of Harden.

Edwards has been basically identical to harden all season long.

Like literally. 19.9 PER vs 19.8 PER. 0.137 WS48 vs 0.141 for harden. Both exactly 4.2 BPM. Teams with basically same record. Except harden is actually +4.2 on/off and Edwards is -2.0 on/off.

For starters, Edwards is a superior defender. Defense aside, Harden's shooting numbers are dreadful.

Harden has played very well the last two months, but the rest of his season could be confused with any season Trae Young has ever produced or the season LaMelo Ball just produced. Basically, big numbers on a mediocre/bad team. The difference is, Harden got Kawhi back and the Clippers have gone 17-6 since the all-star break which has made a rather average season for the Clippers look better than it actually was.

I couldn’t find any evidence that Edwards is a vastly superior defender. Can you point me to that?
This season Harden is better in DPM, Drtng, DEPM, DLEBRON.
I don’t consider either of them great defenders, but Harden is sneaky effective.

[flranger]

RE: Harden

I don't see how people can't understand when a player has been a bitch for at least half of the last six years, that if it's at least remotely close people will not pick the less controversial/more attractive alternative.

He's good. Everyone gets it. When it is close voters prefer the alternative to malcontents. So does the rest of society, including at your employer.

harden was not a bitch in 2016.. and the voters still screwed him.. find another excuse

like i said im pretty sure i know why they screw him, and i will not use race as an excuse.. its more of an old-skool ignorant way of rating players and hardens style breaking the mold as its weird to a lot of people

2025 - 6 = ?

2016 was 9 years ago

I know you are just trolling, so kudos to you for getting a response. The reason Harden doesn't get votes is because people are turned off by malcontents.

[SA37]

Edwards has been basically identical to harden all season long.

Like literally. 19.9 PER vs 19.8 PER. 0.137 WS48 vs 0.141 for harden. Both exactly 4.2 BPM. Teams with basically same record. Except harden is actually +4.2 on/off and Edwards is -2.0 on/off.

For starters, Edwards is a superior defender. Defense aside, Harden's shooting numbers are dreadful.

Harden has played very well the last two months, but the rest of his season could be confused with any season Trae Young has ever produced or the season LaMelo Ball just produced. Basically, big numbers on a mediocre/bad team. The difference is, Harden got Kawhi back and the Clippers have gone 17-6 since the all-star break which has made a rather average season for the Clippers look better than it actually was.

I couldn’t find any evidence that Edwards is a vastly superior defender. Can you point me to that?
This season Harden is better in DPM, Drtng, DEPM, DLEBRON.
I don’t consider either of them great defenders, but Harden is sneaky effective.

Just watching the games. Edwards is a good defender and, perhaps, all-NBA material if he puts in the effort. Harden isn't quite the chair he used to be when youtube videos of endless clips of him getting burned on the defensive end abounded, but Harden is at best an irregular defensive contributor.

[brackdan70]

For starters, Edwards is a superior defender. Defense aside, Harden's shooting numbers are dreadful.

Harden has played very well the last two months, but the rest of his season could be confused with any season Trae Young has ever produced or the season LaMelo Ball just produced. Basically, big numbers on a mediocre/bad team. The difference is, Harden got Kawhi back and the Clippers have gone 17-6 since the all-star break which has made a rather average season for the Clippers look better than it actually was.

I couldn’t find any evidence that Edwards is a vastly superior defender. Can you point me to that?
This season Harden is better in DPM, Drtng, DEPM, DLEBRON.
I don’t consider either of them great defenders, but Harden is sneaky effective.

Just watching the games. Edwards is a good defender and, perhaps, all-NBA material if he puts in the effort. Harden isn't quite the chair he used to be when youtube videos of endless clips of him getting burned on the defensive end abounded, but Harden is at best an irregular defensive contributor.

The numbers don’t back up “eye” test in this case.

[f4p]

I don't know if a 38/10/7 playoff berth clincher is quite 3rd team material.

[NBA4Lyfe]

I don't know if a 38/10/7 playoff berth clincher is quite 3rd team material.

them cowards are gonna go hiding

bob myers on the call today was disgraceful, all the nba voters originate out of that garbage state california which is why their voting skills are as crappy as their preseason predictions

perkins was right about the amount of power white voters have over all-nba he just used a **** example in embiid vs joker. No player has been screwed more relative to their career win shares than james harden.. you wont find another case like this in nba history and believe me i have looked

[Scalabrine]

1st team: Donovan Mitchell, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Jayson Tatum, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Nikola Jokic
2nd team: Steph, Anthony Edwards, Jalen Williams, Evan Mobley, Jaren Jackson Jr.
3rd team: Cade Cunningham, Garland, Jaylen Brown, KAT, Ivica Zubac

Haliburton, Brunson and LeBron don't make the cut
I rewarded Cavs with 3 all NBA spots given none of their players in a serious MVP contender, but the team is elite, rewarded Galrand over Brunson..
Rewarded Cade over Hali for recognition, Hali was borderline last year and was rewarded his 1st time all NBA selection, I think Cade deserves one this year.
Rewarded Zubac over LeBron, this is the 1st year LeBron has bad impact stats, Zubac is having a career year and is legit one of the big 3 on LAC.

Rockets, despite being good, aren't good offensively and had a hard time finiding spot for Sengun.

Brunson averaged more ppg, ast. Had a better WS%, TO%. Tied for Reb, TS%...even tied for minutes played! Also Brunson is way way way more important to his team than Garland.

This shouldnt even be a discussion and the fact that so many people have it is kind of insane. Garland doesn't have him in any statistical category and is the 3rd or 4th best player on the team where Brunson is the best.

[Scalabrine]

Jokic/KAT/Sengun
Giannis/Lebron/Mobley
Tatum/Cunningham/J.Williams
Edwards/Mitchell/Brunson
SGA/Curry/Halliburton

[Infinite Llamas]

Jokic/KAT/Sengun
Giannis/Lebron/Mobley
Tatum/Cunningham/J.Williams
Edwards/Mitchell/Brunson
SGA/Curry/Halliburton

I would personally swap Edwards with Mitchell but that’s pretty similar to mine.

[LoneyROY]

James Harden is an All-NBA player this year. He got off to a rough shooting start re-adjusting to being a top scoring option, but he has been nothing short of elite the 2nd half of the season. Huge games whenever the Clippers needed them + kept the team afloat while Kawhi was out.

Still a very high impact player.

[HardenGoat]

James Harden is an All-NBA player this year. He got off to a rough shooting start re-adjusting to being a top scoring option, but he has been nothing short of elite the 2nd half of the season. Huge games whenever the Clippers needed them + kept the team afloat while Kawhi was out.

Still a very high impact player.

He’s a far cry from being washed. Lol

[Slim Tubby]

Jokic/KAT/Sengun
Giannis/Lebron/Mobley
Tatum/Cunningham/J.Williams
Edwards/Mitchell/Brunson
SGA/Curry/Halliburton

This is the correct answer. If voters want to give the edge to Mitchell over Ant because of their overall team performances, I've got zero beef with that logic.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

[LoneyROY]

James Harden is an All-NBA player this year. He got off to a rough shooting start re-adjusting to being a top scoring option, but he has been nothing short of elite the 2nd half of the season. Huge games whenever the Clippers needed them + kept the team afloat while Kawhi was out.

Still a very high impact player.

He’s a far cry from being washed. Lol

Not even a whimper.

He looks the healthiest he has in years.

[tsherkin]

James Harden is an All-NBA player this year. He got off to a rough shooting start re-adjusting to being a top scoring option, but he has been nothing short of elite the 2nd half of the season. Huge games whenever the Clippers needed them + kept the team afloat while Kawhi was out.

Still a very high impact player.

He's been a good playmaker and not an objectionable defender. He's been up and down all year as a scorer, though. As ever, he's got very little scoring game when his 3pt shot isn't falling. He's been completely useless at getting to the rim this year, the worst season of his career in that regard, and it's really impacted his ability to be of much use as a scorer, particularly in games when his 3 isn't falling. Which is often, because he's highly inconsistent from there. He's also been pulling up at the nail and otherwise in the bottom half of the circle more than any other season in his career, and shooting under 40% there, which isn't good at all. Being forced to his short game because he can't make it all the way to the rim, etc.

"Elite" and "All-NBA" are a little hyperbolic for this season.