Who was at fault on this Butler injury?

[DoubleLintendre]

Copy pasted from another board. Watched the Amen/Butler incident a few times now. Don't think it's completely intentional or accidental. It looks like it Amen wasn't pushed, he moved his body into Butler to add physicality into the play. More reckless than anything. It fits into the gritty style of play of between the teams so I'd chalk it up to an accident.

Edit: with all the super slow mos comments I now think even more it's an accident than anything. Didn't see him tripping/stumbling at first.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Copy pasted from another board. Watched the Amen/Butler incident a few times now. Don't think it's completely intentional or accidental. It looks like it Amen wasn't pushed, he moved his body into Butler to add physicality into the play. More reckless than anything. It fits into the gritty style of play of between the teams so I'd chalk it up to an accident.

It was an accident, but it is still 100% Thompson's fault.

Thompson got reckless trying to grab his own rebound. He tried to squeeze his upper body between 2 rebounders (Adams and Draymond), but Thompson had NO lower body under himself, his feet, he had no footing.

So now you have Thompson's upper body in one place, and his feet are behind him. When Thompson tries to bring his feet up to brace himself, he can't, because he trips on Draymond's legs, and he has no footing to withstand a small hip push by Adams.

So now Thompson becomes a liability falling to the ground, and a danger injury to anyone else in the paint. Even if Jimmy wasn't there, Thompson is falling to the ground anyway, and then what if another player jumps for the board and lands ON a body part of Thompson? Maybe Draymond or Adams lands on his leg and gets an ankle injury.


Basically, Thompson played reckless and caused this injury. Let's use an analogy of driving a vehicle, a car. If you go out and drive a car recklessly and accidentally cause an accident... you didn't do it on purpose, but you DID drive recklessly and it's your fault.

[Haldi]

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Whats truly amazing is the very first one in this clip was a foul on Thompson. Just par for the course with NBA refs and Draymond

[DoubleLintendre]

Copy pasted from another board. Watched the Amen/Butler incident a few times now. Don't think it's completely intentional or accidental. It looks like it Amen wasn't pushed, he moved his body into Butler to add physicality into the play. More reckless than anything. It fits into the gritty style of play of between the teams so I'd chalk it up to an accident.

It was an accident, but it is still 100% Thompson's fault.

Thompson got reckless trying to grab his own rebound. He tried to squeeze his upper body between 2 rebounders (Adams and Draymond), but Thompson had NO lower body under himself, his feet, he had no footing.

So now you have Thompson's upper body in one place, and his feet are behind him. When Thompson tries to bring his feet up to brace himself, he can't, because he trips on Draymond's legs, and he has no footing to withstand a small hip push by Adams.

So now Thompson becomes a liability falling to the ground, and a danger injury to anyone else in the paint. Even if Jimmy wasn't there, Thompson is falling to the ground anyway, and then what if another player jumps for the board and lands ON a body part of Thompson? Maybe Draymond or Adams lands on his leg and gets an ankle injury.


Basically, Thompson played reckless and caused this injury. Let's use an analogy of driving a vehicle, a car. If you go out and drive a car recklessly and accidentally cause an accident... you didn't do it on purpose, but you DID drive recklessly and it's your fault.

I get your reasoning.

I just think in the heat of the moment it's easy for this type of play to happen. It's like injuries that happen diving for loose balls. I don't really think Amen was purposely trying to take Butler out of the air or undercut him.

With the driving example, I think there's a huge difference between speeding, texting while driving, and driving drunk/high. They're all reckless but it's on a scale. This is a "speeding" in my eyes. You can absolutely place fault but there's less intentionality/poor motivation here than in other scenarios. Saying this as Ws/Butler fan.

[ryguy613]

Draymond is 100% responsible for it. I dont know how everyone cant see that. Obviously the part where he hurt Butler was an accident... but if he had hurt Thompson that wouldve been fine with him, and that appears to be what he was trying to do.

[Sixers in 4]

Meh if you have Draymond on your team your complaining card is automatically taken away. Where is the option they have Draymond so I don't care

[Beethoven]

Draymond is 100% responsible for it. I dont know how everyone cant see that. Obviously the part where he hurt Butler was an accident... but if he had hurt Thompson that wouldve been fine with him, and that appears to be what he was trying to do.

What comes around goes around.

[ryguy613]

Draymond is 100% responsible for it. I dont know how everyone cant see that. Obviously the part where he hurt Butler was an accident... but if he had hurt Thompson that wouldve been fine with him, and that appears to be what he was trying to do.

What comes around goes around.

to some extent yes, but its **** that Butler had to pay the price for it. True, it ultimately hurts Draymond because it hurts the team hes supposed to be helping, but its not like his body had to take the punishment of his own stupid actions

[ryguy613]

Copy pasted from another board. Watched the Amen/Butler incident a few times now. Don't think it's completely intentional or accidental. It looks like it Amen wasn't pushed, he moved his body into Butler to add physicality into the play. More reckless than anything. It fits into the gritty style of play of between the teams so I'd chalk it up to an accident.

It was an accident, but it is still 100% Thompson's fault.

Thompson got reckless trying to grab his own rebound. He tried to squeeze his upper body between 2 rebounders (Adams and Draymond), but Thompson had NO lower body under himself, his feet, he had no footing.

So now you have Thompson's upper body in one place, and his feet are behind him. When Thompson tries to bring his feet up to brace himself, he can't, because he trips on Draymond's legs, and he has no footing to withstand a small hip push by Adams.

So now Thompson becomes a liability falling to the ground, and a danger injury to anyone else in the paint. Even if Jimmy wasn't there, Thompson is falling to the ground anyway, and then what if another player jumps for the board and lands ON a body part of Thompson? Maybe Draymond or Adams lands on his leg and gets an ankle injury.


Basically, Thompson played reckless and caused this injury. Let's use an analogy of driving a vehicle, a car. If you go out and drive a car recklessly and accidentally cause an accident... you didn't do it on purpose, but you DID drive recklessly and it's your fault.

...Thompson did not fall to the ground because he "tripped on Draymonds leg". Draymond quite visibly shoved him in the back to try and make sure he couldnt get the rebound. What video were you watching?

[Beethoven]

Draymond is 100% responsible for it. I dont know how everyone cant see that. Obviously the part where he hurt Butler was an accident... but if he had hurt Thompson that wouldve been fine with him, and that appears to be what he was trying to do.

What comes around goes around.

to some extent yes, but its **** that Butler had to pay the price for it. True, it ultimately hurts Draymond because it hurts the team hes supposed to be helping, but its not like his body had to take the punishment of his own stupid actions

Usually it's one of those things. One's bad malicious actions comes around to hurt their loved ones/family/close friends or team. Hurts more and has more impact than just returning the hurt back to the one who committed it.

[Bornstellar]

Obviously an accident but looks to me like Green purposely tripped or tried to impede Thompson on the rebound which caused him to undercut Jimmy. Could have been accidental though, happened very quickly

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Copy pasted from another board. Watched the Amen/Butler incident a few times now. Don't think it's completely intentional or accidental. It looks like it Amen wasn't pushed, he moved his body into Butler to add physicality into the play. More reckless than anything. It fits into the gritty style of play of between the teams so I'd chalk it up to an accident.

It was an accident, but it is still 100% Thompson's fault.

Thompson got reckless trying to grab his own rebound. He tried to squeeze his upper body between 2 rebounders (Adams and Draymond), but Thompson had NO lower body under himself, his feet, he had no footing.

So now you have Thompson's upper body in one place, and his feet are behind him. When Thompson tries to bring his feet up to brace himself, he can't, because he trips on Draymond's legs, and he has no footing to withstand a small hip push by Adams.

So now Thompson becomes a liability falling to the ground, and a danger injury to anyone else in the paint. Even if Jimmy wasn't there, Thompson is falling to the ground anyway, and then what if another player jumps for the board and lands ON a body part of Thompson? Maybe Draymond or Adams lands on his leg and gets an ankle injury.


Basically, Thompson played reckless and caused this injury. Let's use an analogy of driving a vehicle, a car. If you go out and drive a car recklessly and accidentally cause an accident... you didn't do it on purpose, but you DID drive recklessly and it's your fault.

...Thompson did not fall to the ground because he "tripped on Draymonds leg". Draymond quite visibly shoved him in the back to try and make sure he couldnt get the rebound. What video were you watching?

There's a better angle that you apparently have not seen. Draymond didn't shove anything. Thompson was hip pushed by Adams and then tripped on Draymond's leg, because Thompson had no feet under him, being reckless trying for his own rebound

[ryguy613]

Copy pasted from another board. Watched the Amen/Butler incident a few times now. Don't think it's completely intentional or accidental. It looks like it Amen wasn't pushed, he moved his body into Butler to add physicality into the play. More reckless than anything. It fits into the gritty style of play of between the teams so I'd chalk it up to an accident.

you are completely wrong about this. What are you people watching? Go to 37 seconds into this video. Draymond knows he hasnt properly boxed out Thompson so he very clearly very purposefully throws his body weight behind him in a successful attempt to push Thompson out of the way. This is not a Rorschach test. That literally is just what happened there.

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[ryguy613]

It was an accident, but it is still 100% Thompson's fault.

Thompson got reckless trying to grab his own rebound. He tried to squeeze his upper body between 2 rebounders (Adams and Draymond), but Thompson had NO lower body under himself, his feet, he had no footing.

So now you have Thompson's upper body in one place, and his feet are behind him. When Thompson tries to bring his feet up to brace himself, he can't, because he trips on Draymond's legs, and he has no footing to withstand a small hip push by Adams.

So now Thompson becomes a liability falling to the ground, and a danger injury to anyone else in the paint. Even if Jimmy wasn't there, Thompson is falling to the ground anyway, and then what if another player jumps for the board and lands ON a body part of Thompson? Maybe Draymond or Adams lands on his leg and gets an ankle injury.


Basically, Thompson played reckless and caused this injury. Let's use an analogy of driving a vehicle, a car. If you go out and drive a car recklessly and accidentally cause an accident... you didn't do it on purpose, but you DID drive recklessly and it's your fault.

...Thompson did not fall to the ground because he "tripped on Draymonds leg". Draymond quite visibly shoved him in the back to try and make sure he couldnt get the rebound. What video were you watching?

There's a better angle that you apparently have not seen. Draymond didn't shove anything. Thompson was hip pushed by Adams and then tripped on Draymond's leg, because Thompson had no feet under him, being reckless trying for his own rebound

I literally just posted a video and gave the exact timecode where you can see Draymond push Thompson... successfully... which is why Thompson ended up on the ground... its not hard to see. Go to 37 seconds into the video. There is no other way to see this. Draymond knew he didnt box Thompson out so he idiotically threw his body weight backwards, knowing that's where Thompson was, to try and push him out of the way. This is not a basketball play. its not boxing out. its not unlucky. Draymond knew where Thompson was and figured hed use some old vet tough playoff moves on him... and he caused the dude to fall on his teammates legs. Thats just what happened people...

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[Biff Cooper]

It was unintentional all around, but I voted Draymond. Amen was going to beat him to the basket on the rebound, and Draymond fouled him to keep him from getting a clear path to the ball.

[ryguy613]

how could this be Draymond Green? he was blocking off Thompson as defender...come on people some common sense..
Adam came down and pushed Thompson forward

funny what happens when you put multiple pictures together and have some kind of... player that can quickly display them in succession. you MIGHT be able to see what actually happened here.

[ryguy613]

how could this be Draymond Green? he was blocking off Thompson as defender...come on people some common sense..
Adam came down and pushed Thompson forward

Just watch the clip I posted. Dray almost Zaza'ed Thompson, but his leg landed in front of him. He got sandwiched by Adams and Draymond yanked him forward.

This was a classic bang-bang play but Draymond is also being Draymond. He definitely had a hand in Thompson being lurched forward.

thinking about how to play basketball man...Draymond is a dirty player but his defense instinct does not go away, he was clearly trying to block off the offensive player.

im sure youve watch Dryamond long enough to know that he will ALWAYS add a little something extra if he thinks he can either get away with it without being seen, or knowing that he will be caught but trying to make a point to the opposition, to give them something to think about. Thats exactly what was happening here. Draymond added that little extra level of physicality to get Thompson off balance... it worked... it just had the wrong consequences for him

[MarcusBrody]

...Thompson did not fall to the ground because he "tripped on Draymonds leg". Draymond quite visibly shoved him in the back to try and make sure he couldnt get the rebound. What video were you watching?

There's a better angle that you apparently have not seen. Draymond didn't shove anything. Thompson was hip pushed by Adams and then tripped on Draymond's leg, because Thompson had no feet under him, being reckless trying for his own rebound

I literally just posted a video and gave the exact timecode where you can see Draymond push Thompson... successfully... which is why Thompson ended up on the ground... its not hard to see. Go to 37 seconds into the video. There is no other way to see this. Draymond knew he didnt box Thompson out so he idiotically threw his body weight backwards, knowing that's where Thompson was, to try and push him out of the way. This is not a basketball play. its not boxing out. its not unlucky. Draymond knew where Thompson was and figured hed use some old vet tough playoff moves on him... and he caused the dude to fall on his teammates legs. Thats just what happened people...

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I am no Draymond fan, but I also think you're incorrect here. The replay view posted earlier pretty clearly shows that it is Adams who first makes contact with Thompson as he tries to get around Podz. He (accidentally) hip checks him, which sends him forward. Draymond has his arm and leg out in what appears to me a reasonable attempt to box out, but that then trips Thompson after the bump from Adams. The contact from Thompson spins Draymond around. The little vertical video from a page or two ago pretty clearly shows that Draymond wasn't doing much pushing. The only one that makes it look like it does is this distant, cross court angle where you can't actually see the moment of contact between players.

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Look at seconds 6-7 of the second. It's clearly Adams bumping him that sends him flying over Draymond's leg, not Draymond pushing him. Draymond has pretty much all of his body in front of Thompson, I'm not sure how he even could push him from that exact position.

[TheGOATWill]

how could this be Draymond Green? he was blocking off Thompson as defender...come on people some common sense..
Adam came down and pushed Thompson forward

Green and Podziemski with lazy box out of Thompson and Adams respectively.

[Indomitable]

Amen he was reckless.