Does the amount of Teams he played for hurt Lebron's legacy?

[AmIWrongDude]

Doesn’t matter much. Players that luck out and have great front offices shouldn’t get extra credit for stuff Thats out of their hands. LeBron staying in Cleveland would have been a massive massive risk.

Staying in a bad situation is dumb if you’re a star player and care about winning. You can’t put your career in the hands of poor execs.

However if you can build a team around someone which wins 6 titles, the only 6 titles the franchise has ever won, it means this can be achieved with the player concerned, and it is hard to see how that can be ascribed to luck with a front office. It is nothing but conjecture than a different front office could have done this with LeBron, however you guys want to slice it.

It absolutely is a ton of luck though lol. Duncan for example drafted to an amazing team and front office. Part of the reason the MJ Bulls were so great was because Pippen messed up and signed a long term contract where he was severely underpaid. Thats just good luck for MJ. Krause was an amazing GM.

LeBron on the other hand was drafted to a franchise that was just a total mess. Also LeBron was too good too fast so they couldn’t get good draft picks.

It’s easy to say X player was loyal when they had great teams and front offices. I hate to see great players wasting away like KG did with the Wolves.

[JujitsuFlip]

You all will never see this again. Idk who you'll hate once he retires.

[MavsDirk41]

If only every all time great had the front office and coaches these guys had within the earlier parts of their career.

This narrative is so tiring it shouldn't need to be expanded on.

He could have stayed in Miami with Spo (future HOF coach) and let Riley build a roster around him. Miami is one of the top nba organizations in drafting and developing talent, plus they are a top free agent destination. But im glad we will overlook this because it doesnt make him look good. Lol come on man.

Interesting of you to assume that 'staying with a team' is the default umpeachble decision. Easier to trust a system when you are drafted onto a far superior one/get it set up very early on.

Maybe 7 years of a horrible FO leads you to taking some of those decisions into your own hands.

The irony being the same people who whinge about a player changing teams, are often the same people who throw up the 6/6 and 6>4 memes and would double down even more if he rode it out with the same team and won 2-3.

Not every player can have the best coach and team in the league for 8 years

I didnt say stay with one team lol! I asked why leave Miami? Spo is one of the greatest coaches in nba history. Miami has gone to the finals twice with Butler and Bam as the core. They draft and develop players as well as any organization in the nba. Miami is a great free agency destination. These are facts not opinions pal. Why leave Miami? We know why but his fans wont admit it.

Maybe the Bulls were the best team cause Jordan…..what had Jackson accomplished before coaching Jordan? So being the best player in the nba on a dynasty that won 6 titles in 8 years with a HOF coach is bad? Lebron James has never been a part of a dynasty and thats not Jordans fault, its his fault. Geezz lol nothing but excuses man.

[MavsDirk41]

You're moving the goal posts. Who said Wade, Bosh, and LBJ aren't contenders? lmao

What had James did at age 22 you ask? Take the Cavs to the NBA Finals, what a terrible position for you to take, lol

Uhm, that's untrue. LeBron went to the Finals in 2007 and 2018 without any of the bold. He also was a 2 time MVP of the league, 8 time All-NBA, 8 time All-Star, and 1 time All-Defense... That right there is a hall of fame career all on it's own.

Ill give you the taking Cleveland to the finals at 22, i though he was 23. Was Love not on Cleveland in 2018?

Ok and Jordan never was an all star, all nba, all defensive team without Pippen lol? Im not saying James isnt one of the greatest of all time but the guy had help winning his championships just like everybody else does and he teamed up with other established allstars to do it. Not sure why you have a problem with that.

I have no issue with it but the guy was a 2 time league MVP without anyone else.

And no, MJ did not get his DPOY or any All-Defense until Pippen joined him.

He was 2nd in mvp voting the year before the Bulls drafted Pippen.

Did you also know it took Pippen 3 years to develop? So that would mean Jordan played 6 years before playing with an allstar player. And Pippen was the only allstar teammate Jordan ever played with. How many has James played with?

[Raps in 4]

Doesn’t matter much. Players that luck out and have great front offices shouldn’t get extra credit for stuff Thats out of their hands. LeBron staying in Cleveland would have been a massive massive risk.

Staying in a bad situation is dumb if you’re a star player and care about winning. You can’t put your career in the hands of poor execs.

He had a great FO and coach in Miami but still bailed at the first sign of adversity.

[MavsDirk41]

I disagree.

Lebron joins teams, gets them to mortgage their future to build enough win-now talent, wins, and then leaves the team in shambles to go repeat the same process on a new team that has already sacrificed to accumulate assets.

It's certainly a smart move that enables Lebron to have enough talent around him to compete for championships, but I think it tarnishes the value of his legacy a bit. I'm not as impressed that Lebron has so many career playoff games and so many Finals appearances because he did so by hopping onto different teams while they were at the peak of their development/compete/rebuild cycle and hopping off to miss out on the losing portion of the cycle. What Jordan, Russell and Duncan did by winning 5+ titles on the same team is more impressive.

The fact is, none of this has ever happened. Obviously this didn't happen when LeBron was drafted by the Cavs for the first 7 seasons of his career. Then, when LeBron left Cleveland and joined Miami as a free agent, the Heat literally had 1 player under contract going into free agency, as they were preping for years for arguably the greatest free agency class ever. Then LeBron returns to Cleveland and no doubt played a role in getting the Cavs to trade #1 pick Wiggins for top 15 player in his prime, Kevin Love. I wouldn't necessarily call that "mortgaging the future." Then when he joined the Lakers as a free agent, he joined a team that consisted of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma and Micahel Beasely as some of the most notable names and proceeded to go 37-45. Again, no doubt LeBron played a role in getting the Lakers to trade Lonzo, BI, Josh Hart and 3 picks for prime top 10 player Anthony Davis. And again, I wouldnt call that "mortgaging the future".

So while the perception of what you're saying may have validity to some, context and reality beg to differ.

Plus, anytime LeBron entered free agency, he could have gone to any team in the NBA. Whether as an FA or SnT. He didn't ever choose pre-ready teams. He chose project teams or young teams every time

Did Bosh join him in Miami? Was Bosh an all star?
Did Love join him in Cleveland? Was Love an all star?
Did he recruit Davis in LA because he missed the playoffs his first year there? Was Davis an all star?

So he went to these places by himself and turned them around lol? His fans lol

[The Servant]

No

[MavsDirk41]

You all will never see this again. Idk who you'll hate once he retires.

What about 2 3 peats with the same organization? Have we seen that before?

What about 11 championships in 13 years? We seen that before? Your obsession with James is hilarious.

[ball_takes23]

Imagine for a second that instead of coming back to the bulls after first retirement MJ announces he’s forming a super team with shaq and Reggie miller, and then proceeds to win 1/4 titles over the next 4 seasons. Do you think the reaction from Lebron fans would be:

A) wow what an impressive feat to win titles with multiple franchises

Or

B) lol what a bum MJ needs Scottie and Phil to even form a dynasty.

They would obviously be spamming reaction B, and it would be the correct reaction, because not only would it be a much worse outcome than his actual career, it would be a pretty huge black stain on his legacy.

[JujitsuFlip]

Ill give you the taking Cleveland to the finals at 22, i though he was 23. Was Love not on Cleveland in 2018?

Ok and Jordan never was an all star, all nba, all defensive team without Pippen lol? Im not saying James isnt one of the greatest of all time but the guy had help winning his championships just like everybody else does and he teamed up with other established allstars to do it. Not sure why you have a problem with that.

I have no issue with it but the guy was a 2 time league MVP without anyone else.

And no, MJ did not get his DPOY or any All-Defense until Pippen joined him.

He was 2nd in mvp voting the year before the Bulls drafted Pippen.

Did you also know it took Pippen 3 years to develop? So that would mean Jordan played 6 years before playing with an allstar player. And Pippen was the only allstar teammate Jordan ever played with. How many has James played with?

K, and LBJ was 2nd prior to winning 2, what's your point? lol

I have a cooler one for ya, look at the 1996 NBA All-Defense 1st team and tell me what you find...

[JujitsuFlip]

You all will never see this again. Idk who you'll hate once he retires.

What about 2 3 peats with the same organization? Have we seen that before?

What about 11 championships in 13 years? We seen that before? Your obsession with James is hilarious.

I think doing the same thing, with the same coach, in the same city, with the same side kick shows he's really good a winning titles with that combination of coach, city, and side kick.

It would be like if we were comparing 2 chefs. 1 chef can cook you a fantastic beef Wellington but the chef we're comparing him to can cook an amazing beef Wellington, he also can cook an amazing 8-ounce filet mignon topped with Alaskan king crab, and he even can cook an amazing creamy lemon pasta.

One chef his showing you he can cook one way and one way only. The other chef is showing you much more diversity in how he cooks. Regardless of the kitchen, who the sous chef is, and what the dish is, you know its going to be amazing.

[bledredwine]

Of course it does.

Fleeing to greener pastures is not harder. It's easier.

Only fans say otherwise.

Key words being Only Fans.

[zimpy27]

The fact is, none of this has ever happened. Obviously this didn't happen when LeBron was drafted by the Cavs for the first 7 seasons of his career. Then, when LeBron left Cleveland and joined Miami as a free agent, the Heat literally had 1 player under contract going into free agency, as they were preping for years for arguably the greatest free agency class ever. Then LeBron returns to Cleveland and no doubt played a role in getting the Cavs to trade #1 pick Wiggins for top 15 player in his prime, Kevin Love. I wouldn't necessarily call that "mortgaging the future." Then when he joined the Lakers as a free agent, he joined a team that consisted of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma and Micahel Beasely as some of the most notable names and proceeded to go 37-45. Again, no doubt LeBron played a role in getting the Lakers to trade Lonzo, BI, Josh Hart and 3 picks for prime top 10 player Anthony Davis. And again, I wouldnt call that "mortgaging the future".

So while the perception of what you're saying may have validity to some, context and reality beg to differ.

Plus, anytime LeBron entered free agency, he could have gone to any team in the NBA. Whether as an FA or SnT. He didn't ever choose pre-ready teams. He chose project teams or young teams every time

Did Bosh join him in Miami? Was Bosh an all star?
Did Love join him in Cleveland? Was Love an all star?
Did he recruit Davis in LA because he missed the playoffs his first year there? Was Davis an all star?

So he went to these places by himself and turned them around lol? His fans lol

Bosh joined same time. It was a discussion between the 3.
Love was traded for by the Cavs after LeBron arrived.
Davis was traded for by the Lakers after LeBron arrived.

There were many more ready made teams he could have joined right?

[bledredwine]

Plus, anytime LeBron entered free agency, he could have gone to any team in the NBA. Whether as an FA or SnT. He didn't ever choose pre-ready teams. He chose project teams or young teams every time

Did Bosh join him in Miami? Was Bosh an all star?
Did Love join him in Cleveland? Was Love an all star?
Did he recruit Davis in LA because he missed the playoffs his first year there? Was Davis an all star?

So he went to these places by himself and turned them around lol? His fans lol

Bosh joined same time. It was a discussion between the 3.
Love was traded for by the Cavs after LeBron arrived.
Davis was traded for by the Lakers after LeBron arrived.

There were many more ready made teams he could have joined right?

Let's not act like Lebron didn't know exactly what was happening.

Even when he went to LA, my two friends (lebron fans, poor things) were bummed because they thought he ruined his winning chances.

I said "Don't worry, he's planning for either Davis or Kawhi to come to LA to form another ridiculous duo".

lo and behold.

[Maf]

He played on 3 teams and won a championship for each one. How would that tarnish his legacy?

This plus 1000. And I hate Bron from my guts. When I will think about Bron in future I will see him holding LO´B trophy in Cavs unform, in HEAT uniform, in Lakers uniform. When I think of Hakeem I do not seem him in Raptors uniform, Jordan in Wizards uniform, hell not even KAJ in Bucks uniform and he made history with them.

I will always hate this guy, I am honest. But I cannot deny he was pretty good at basketball...

[AmIWrongDude]

Doesn’t matter much. Players that luck out and have great front offices shouldn’t get extra credit for stuff Thats out of their hands. LeBron staying in Cleveland would have been a massive massive risk.

Staying in a bad situation is dumb if you’re a star player and care about winning. You can’t put your career in the hands of poor execs.

He had a great FO and coach in Miami but still bailed at the first sign of adversity.

Went back to the homeland to fulfill the prophecy. Had to be done.

[MrBigShot]

Not one bit. If anything, returning to the team that drafted him to win a title enhances his legacy.

[AmIWrongDude]

Did Bosh join him in Miami? Was Bosh an all star?
Did Love join him in Cleveland? Was Love an all star?
Did he recruit Davis in LA because he missed the playoffs his first year there? Was Davis an all star?

So he went to these places by himself and turned them around lol? His fans lol

Bosh joined same time. It was a discussion between the 3.
Love was traded for by the Cavs after LeBron arrived.
Davis was traded for by the Lakers after LeBron arrived.

There were many more ready made teams he could have joined right?

Let's not act like Lebron didn't know exactly what was happening.

Even when he went to LA, my two friends (lebron fans, poor things) were bummed because they thought he ruined his winning chances.

I said "Don't worry, he's planning for either Davis or Kawhi to come to LA to form another ridiculous duo".

lo and behold.

Ok but even LeBron and AD isn’t some super stacked team. LeBron absolutely could’ve joined other teams and been almost guaranteed rings but he didn’t. Just like when he went back to Cleveland he could’ve joined other teams and had a better chance of winning but he wanted to make things right in Cleveland.

I think he deserves **** for the Miami move but going back to Cleveland and going to LA were far from stacking the deck and he could’ve if he wanted to.

[NZB2323]

He’s the greatest Cleveland Cavalier of all time and I don’t see anyone passing him.

Kareem is maybe hurt more by this. Is he the greatest Buck or greatest Laker?

I’m also not sure if Wilt or Shaq is the greatest on any of their teams.

Ray Allen is also hurt by this. Milwaukee will retire his number for Giannis, Seattle doesn’t have a team, he left Boston on bad terms, and he was a role player in Miami. Reggie Miller is the greatest Pacer of all time.

2011 really hurt Lebron’s legacy, but Wade was pretty beat up in 2013.

[AmIWrongDude]

Not one bit. If anything, returning to the team that drafted him to win a title enhances his legacy.

Man KD really should’ve went back to OKC before they became a powerhouse but while they were still really good and developing. Now it’s too late but he probably would’ve gotten a lot of credit if he did.

LeBron going back to get one for Cleveland is basically movie stuff especially when you consider the vitriol from fans, the wild letter from Dan Gilbert, and Cleveland’s first championship coming from a 3-1 comeback. Really hard to beat that from a narrative standpoint.