2025 NBA FINALS: #1 Oklahoma City Thunder vs #4 Indiana Pacers (Series tied 2-2)

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Scott Foster tonight. -_-

[MoneyTalks41890]

Scott Foster tonight. -_-

Halliburton free throw game incoming

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Scott Foster tonight. -_-

Halliburton free throw game incoming

I don’t even remember what it looks like to see Haliburton shoot a free throw.

[Patches Perry]

How often do you see a team change their starting lineup after making the finals?

I don't recall it happening.

I actually think it’s wildly absurd and really highlights Mark’s inexperience.

I'm not saying the specific change was correct, but MD has changed the starting lineup many times throughout the season. It's not some unusual panic move.

They've basically had a set 4 (SGA, Dub, Chet, Dort) with a variable 1 all season long when healthy. Hartenstein, Wallace and even Wiggins have been slotted in that variable 1 all season.

[Dadouv47]

How often do you see a team change their starting lineup after making the finals?

I don't recall it happening.

I actually think it’s wildly absurd and really highlights Mark’s inexperience.

I'm not saying the specific change was correct, but MD has changed the starting lineup many times throughout the season. It's not some unusual panic move.

They've basically had a set 4 (SGA, Dub, Chet, Dort) with a variable 1 all season long when healthy. Hartenstein, Wallace and even Wiggins have been slotted in that variable 1 all season.

Chet played only 32 regular season games and Hartenstein was out in some of them.

Also OKC playing with one big most of the game since game 7 of the Denver series.

OKC might lose to Indiana and our coach could have done better but it won't be due to the starting line up change

[Dadouv47]

How likely do you think it's possible to come back and win from a 1-3 deficit against this Pacers team with one game on the road? Between 5 and 10%?

I know it's 1-2 right now but rather ask now because after the game we might have some overreaction.

[bisme37]

From NBA.com:

Pacers...

.
To regain control of the series, Indiana had to do something few teams had managed all season – contain the Kia NBA MVP.

At the heart of that challenge is an evolving chess match between SGA and Andrew Nembhard – two lifelong friends battling on basketball’s biggest stage.

Action: In Game 2, Nembhard guarded SGA 64.3% of the time they shared the floor. In that time, Shai tallied 7 points on 50% shooting and 3 assists. On the 35.7% of possessions when other Pacers guarded him, SGA scored 27

Reaction: So how did Rick Carlisle and the Pacers respond? By upping Nembhard’s role in Game 3, assigning him to SGA on 78.6% of shared possessions — his highest rate all series

Execution: In those possessions (9:51 of gametime), Nembhard held Shai to 6 points on 2-of-7 shooting (28.6%) along with three turnovers

But it wasn’t just the time Nembhard spent guarding SGA that made the difference – it was how he guarded him, picking him up full-court, while Indy waited to pounce with traps and doubles.

Nembhard hounded SGA baseline to baseline all game, helping Indiana wear down the MVP over four quarters. By night’s end, SGA had logged 1.62 miles on offense — the most of any Thunder player.

On the other side, no Pacer covered more defensive ground than – guess who – Nembhard (1.32 miles).

Cat & Mouse: Like all great players, SGA adjusted – turning to playmaking when doubles came, drawing help and finding teammates for open looks

But Indy saved its sharpest adjustment for the 4th. Rather than sending multiple on-ball defenders at SGA, the Pacers denied him touches altogether – with Nembhard face-guarding him off-ball, while Indy swarmed OKC’s secondary ballhandlers.

The Pacers finished the 4th with four steals and five blocks, holding OKC to a Playoff-low 18 points in the quarter and just one field goal in the final 5:57 – a late lockdown that’s become part of their clutch identity.

Dominant Storm: The Thunder entered the Finals averaging 28.8 ppg on 46.6% shooting in the 4th for a +10.8 NetRtg

New Pace: In the Finals, Indy has held OKC to 24.3 ppg in the 4th on 37.5% shooting for a -42.9 NetRtg

The Result? Indy has won all three 4th quarters, outscoring OKC 100-73 to take control of the series

Thunder...

.
Déjà Vu: In the West Semis against Denver, OKC lost Game 1 at home on a last-second shot, bounced back with a 15+ point win in Game 2, then lost by nine on the road in Game 3

Sound Familiar? That exact sequence has played out in these Finals, and OKC went on to win Game 4 – and three of the next four – to oust Denver in seven

It's What They Do: The Thunder are an NBA-best 17-2 following a loss this season, including a perfect 5-0 in the Playoffs

[Mr. Perfect]

SMH NBA bringing in Scott Foster for this game you know they want OKC to tie the series up 2-2. He allows OKC to get away with murder on defense.

[Iwasawitness]

There's no need to be dismissive especially when a multitude of posters on here seem to be strongly disagreeing with you. Yes, yes you've been watching since the 1970's and that's why you think the OKC can't possibly lose to anyone.

Generally, the team with the best player wins the series. LeBron in his MIA days is very much better than SGA. Bosh is better than any big on OKC and washed up Wade was still as good as anyone not named SGA on the Thunder.

If the Thunder are truly as good as you say and can only be beaten by GOAT level finals teams, why the evasiveness around the Pacers? Surely, that means they're GOAT level if they win, no? They would be placed amongst the best finals teams ever?

But no, according to you - if they beat this nearly unbeatable OKC team they're just "better than I thought"

Mystifying

Did Dallas have anyone that was a better player than LeBron James in 2011? Did they have anyone better than a Dwayne Wade outside of Dirk?

These are the exact same questions that apply to what you were just talking about with regards to OKC vs Miami. And guess what? Dallas still ended up winning that series.

The big problem here is that you're focusing on what's on paper with the top players and you're ignoring all other critical aspects.

2011 Miami Heat, on top of having absolutely no depth whatsoever, had almost no spacing. In their starting lineup, Mario Chalmers was the only three point threat they had. This was a key reason as to why LeBron struggled against the Dallas defense. So how do you think he'd do against one of the greatest defensive teams of all time, consisting of two all defensive members and one who also would've made it had it not been for injury and on top of that, two different elite rim protectors guarding the paint at all times?

Oh but it gets better.

Dwayne Wade lit up Dallas in that series, but it was partially by design. Dallas purposely devoted a lot of their attention towards LeBron and just did single coverage on Wade with either Stevenson or way past his prime Kidd. In this case, he's more than likely getting Dort, who is a nightmare defensive matchup for most guards. Wade is Wade, and he'll find a way to get baskets, but it's not going to be at the rate he did against Dallas.

And then Bosh is going up against Chet, who as I mentioned before would've made all defense had it not been for injuries (and would've been a DPOY candidate). That's another difficult defensive matchup right there.

Dallas proved something in this series, and that is if you're able to limit one or even possibly two of the big three, you have a path to victory. In this case, it was shutting down LeBron that proved to be the key to success.

And where is the additional offense going to come from with these three fighting for their lives to get baskets? OKC certainly has the personal to step up outside of their three best players. They had seven players average double digit scoring. Seven. Do you understand how insane that is?

But yeah sure, Miami has two of the three best players. According to you, that's supposed to make up for it, despite the clear matchup problems on top of the massive overall talent gap.

So yes, I'm going to be outright dismissive of the mere suggestion that the 2011 Heat would beat this Thunder team. It's an incredibly laughable thing to think. If you actually break it down and think about how things would play out, it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where the Heat win in a seven game series.

Revisionist history. Dallas had JJ Barea and Terry single-coveraging Lebron that series. Wade was much better than Lebron at that point. Much more fearless slasher. Lebron just **** the bed that year. It’s not bad to admit that. He learned from his mistakes and came much better the next year. No need to revise history and come up with more excuses for Lebron. He became the 2nd greatest player of all time after that anyway, so he didn’t really lose. Dirk just taught him a lesson or two, all greats needed a beating. Jordan had the Pistons, Kobe had the Suns, and Lebron had Duncan and Dirk.

Your argument makes zero sense.

First off, Barea and Terry single covering LeBron... Do you not know what a zone defense is?

And in what way am I revising history? I said Dallas planned their entire defense around LeBron. This was confirmed by Mark Cuban himself. I said Miami lacked spacing, which is 100% true. It was a key reason as to why LeBron struggled.

And with all of that said, how is this me making excuses for him? That's a direct indictment on LeBron as a player. I'm outright stating that Dallas shut him down, which is true. Making excuses for him would be saying something like he choked, because that's at least giving him the benefit of the doubt in that he was capable of being that kind of player. At the time, he wasn't, not against a team with this kind of defense.

Some of you really don't think before making these posts.

[Iwasawitness]

2018-19 team I was referring to. I’m not sure why he would refer to the team that got beat in the 2nd round. lol.

I think OKC would be in tough. On paper they get beat quite handily. Raptors certainly wouldn’t struggle with the current Denver squad.

Well that's what he put. Don't know what else to tell you.

Do they get beat on paper? Across the board they have pretty comparable talent. Kawhi at that point was a superstar, but I think the slight edge goes to SGA. I don't think Toronto has a second best player that's as good as J Williams. OKC still has the deeper team. Toronto does have VanVleet and Ibaka off the bench, but after that there's nothing much to their bench (OG wasn't anywhere close to the player he is now at the time). And I think OKC has the capabilities to severely limit Toronto's offense compared to what Toronto can do to them.

I'm not saying Toronto can't beat them. But if we kept repeating a seven game series between the two, I think OKC wins more often than not.

Also, the whole "Toronto wouldn't struggle to beat Denver" isn't a very good argument. It took the 2014 Spurs seven games to get past the eight seeded Mavericks. It took the 2013 Heat seven games to get past the Paul George led pacers. I don't think these are teams OKC would have much trouble with. Basketball is a game of matchups and sometimes, even when you have a significant talent mismatch, certain teams can still have the tools and experience needed to make it harder to use that to your advantage. We've seen it way too many times in this sport. This shouldn't even be something people try to use as a "gotcha" moment.

Kawhi was an absolute monster. Elite defensive player who was an incredible 3 level scorer. Lowry is most likely a hall of famer, Pascal is a 3x all-star, 2x ALL-NBA player, Gasol was a DPOY and all-star, Ibaka was a good 2-way big, Green was a great 3+D player, then you had Norm and Fred. It’s actually insane how good that team was.

Toronto as well as many other teams load managed the entire year and didn’t view games in January as important as OKC. So we can talk about how great the Thunder were in the regular season but they’d most definitely get beat by a few teams in the past decade or two. OKC is definitely a great team. No denying that but do they even beat a Sixers team that the Raptors had to beat in 2019?

SGA is an absolute monster now who just won the MVP award. He may not be the defender Kawhi was but he's better offensively. Pascal was not a two time all NBA player and three all star at that point yet. Gasol was a DPOY five years ago before that point. He was still a great player but he wasn't the Memphis Gasol. Yes, Toronto had a very impressive team. Like I said before, I loved that team, but you're underrating the Thunder. Jalen has a good argument for being a top 15 player in the league. Chet does too. Hartenstein is a top ten center in the league. Guys like Caruso and Dort are some of the best defensive players in the league. They're a historically great team. The Raptors just weren't on that level, but their experience and coaching closes the gap.

[MoneyTalks41890]

How likely do you think it's possible to come back and win from a 1-3 deficit against this Pacers team with one game on the road? Between 5 and 10%?

I know it's 1-2 right now but rather ask now because after the game we might have some overreaction.

This team?

I don’t see it. They showed some real grit in the Denver series that we just haven’t seen yet in the finals. Lots of youth popping up.

Not the play so far that makes you confident they can win three straight without slipping.

[Los_29]

Well that's what he put. Don't know what else to tell you.

Do they get beat on paper? Across the board they have pretty comparable talent. Kawhi at that point was a superstar, but I think the slight edge goes to SGA. I don't think Toronto has a second best player that's as good as J Williams. OKC still has the deeper team. Toronto does have VanVleet and Ibaka off the bench, but after that there's nothing much to their bench (OG wasn't anywhere close to the player he is now at the time). And I think OKC has the capabilities to severely limit Toronto's offense compared to what Toronto can do to them.

I'm not saying Toronto can't beat them. But if we kept repeating a seven game series between the two, I think OKC wins more often than not.

Also, the whole "Toronto wouldn't struggle to beat Denver" isn't a very good argument. It took the 2014 Spurs seven games to get past the eight seeded Mavericks. It took the 2013 Heat seven games to get past the Paul George led pacers. I don't think these are teams OKC would have much trouble with. Basketball is a game of matchups and sometimes, even when you have a significant talent mismatch, certain teams can still have the tools and experience needed to make it harder to use that to your advantage. We've seen it way too many times in this sport. This shouldn't even be something people try to use as a "gotcha" moment.

Kawhi was an absolute monster. Elite defensive player who was an incredible 3 level scorer. Lowry is most likely a hall of famer, Pascal is a 3x all-star, 2x ALL-NBA player, Gasol was a DPOY and all-star, Ibaka was a good 2-way big, Green was a great 3+D player, then you had Norm and Fred. It’s actually insane how good that team was.

Toronto as well as many other teams load managed the entire year and didn’t view games in January as important as OKC. So we can talk about how great the Thunder were in the regular season but they’d most definitely get beat by a few teams in the past decade or two. OKC is definitely a great team. No denying that but do they even beat a Sixers team that the Raptors had to beat in 2019?

SGA is an absolute monster now who just won the MVP award. He may not be the defender Kawhi was but he's better offensively. Pascal was not a two time all NBA player and three all star at that point yet. Gasol was a DPOY five years ago before that point. He was still a great player but he wasn't the Memphis Gasol. Yes, Toronto had a very impressive team. Like I said before, I loved that team, but you're underrating the Thunder. Jalen has a good argument for being a top 15 player in the league. Chet does too. Hartenstein is a top ten center in the league. Guys like Caruso and Dort are some of the best defensive players in the league. They're a historically great team. The Raptors just weren't on that level, but their experience and coaching closes the gap.

I like SGA, huge fan of his game and his ability to get to the free throw line. But Kawhi was better. I think you’d be surprised if you took a look at SGA’s numbers in these playoffs. 47% from the field and 31% from three. You compare that to Kawhi who shot nearly 50% from the field and 37% from three on much higher volume. Then obviously the difference defensively is enormous. Kawhi also averaged nearly 10 rebounds a game.

Pascal was a very good player that year. He torched Draymond in the finals and was an ALL-NBA player the following year. Gasol wasn’t in his prime but still much better than Hartenstein, Ibaka was better as well. Norm was a great player but there weren’t a lot of minutes for him. Same with Fred. Lowry was still a stud.

And Jalen Williams, top 15 player? The guy putting up splits of 44/31/77 in these playoffs? I respect your fandom but you need to be objective here. The fact he’s their 2nd best player actually helps my argument more than yours. lol.

OKC is a great team but Toronto was a better team. A few others were much better as well. Too many limited offensive players on OKC.

[Dadouv47]

Kawhi was an absolute monster. Elite defensive player who was an incredible 3 level scorer. Lowry is most likely a hall of famer, Pascal is a 3x all-star, 2x ALL-NBA player, Gasol was a DPOY and all-star, Ibaka was a good 2-way big, Green was a great 3+D player, then you had Norm and Fred. It’s actually insane how good that team was.

Toronto as well as many other teams load managed the entire year and didn’t view games in January as important as OKC. So we can talk about how great the Thunder were in the regular season but they’d most definitely get beat by a few teams in the past decade or two. OKC is definitely a great team. No denying that but do they even beat a Sixers team that the Raptors had to beat in 2019?

SGA is an absolute monster now who just won the MVP award. He may not be the defender Kawhi was but he's better offensively. Pascal was not a two time all NBA player and three all star at that point yet. Gasol was a DPOY five years ago before that point. He was still a great player but he wasn't the Memphis Gasol. Yes, Toronto had a very impressive team. Like I said before, I loved that team, but you're underrating the Thunder. Jalen has a good argument for being a top 15 player in the league. Chet does too. Hartenstein is a top ten center in the league. Guys like Caruso and Dort are some of the best defensive players in the league. They're a historically great team. The Raptors just weren't on that level, but their experience and coaching closes the gap.

I like SGA, huge fan of his game and his ability to get to the free throw line. But Kawhi was better. I think you’d be surprised if you took a look at SGA’s numbers in these playoffs. 47% from the field and 31% from three. You compare that to Kawhi who shot nearly 50% from the field and 37% from three on much higher volume. Then obviously the difference defensively is enormous. Kawhi also averaged nearly 10 rebounds a game.

Pascal was a very good player that year. He torched Draymond in the finals and was an ALL-NBA player the following year. Gasol wasn’t in his prime but still much better than Hartenstein, Ibaka was better as well. Norm was a great player but there weren’t a lot of minutes for him. Same with Fred. Lowry was still a stud.

And Jalen Williams, top 15 player? The guy putting up splits of 44/31/77 in these playoffs? I respect your fandom but you need to be objective here. The fact he’s their 2nd best player actually helps my argument more than yours. lol.

OKC is a great team but Toronto was a better team. A few others were much better as well. Too many limited offensive players on OKC.

I agree and to me it just shows how great Shai is. Non OKC fans finally understanding how impactful Shai is offensively to lead that team to 68 wins with good offensive numbers. Jdub was better in the regular season but we are still too limited offensively so what Shai accomplished is unreal to me.

[scrabbarista]

This one's for all the nachos, boys!

The winner tonight is in the driver's seat!

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

The one people here that should be allowed to declare the series being over, are Pacers fans and Thunder fans, as we try our best to reverse jinx our teams.

Early in game 1, I declared the moment was too big for the Pacers and they weren’t ready. They were turning the ball over like crazy, and without me stating that they werent ready for the moment, reasonable minds can agree they would have lost. Sure, you can declare Haliburton’s shot was a big factor, and it was, but was it a bigger factor than me claiming they weren’t ready for the moment? Debatable.

You see some Thunder fans doing it now, and I hate it, buncha jerks, just be cool, and let us have this! But I’m ready for war and am more than ready to get into a reverse jinx war with these delinquents.

However, everyone not a fan of either team, all the overreacting is just silly to me.

Halfway through game 1: The Pacers suck!
After game 1: The Thunder are cooked!
After game 2: The Thunder figured the Pacers out, it’s over in 5!
After game 3: The Thunder can’t keep up with the Pacers!

The crazy thing is, it’s the same people saying all of these. In the olden days of the NBA, where a 10 point lead seemed impossible to overcome, fans didn’t act like this. Now in today’s NBA, where 20 point leads are overcome like it’s nothing, people act like any lead is the end of the series.

Calm down, this is an NBA era where no lead is insurmountable, whether it’s a 20 point lead in the game, or a 3-1 series deficit. Anything can happen.

Just because SAS makes everything a hot take doesn’t mean we as fans need to follow his lead. Everything isn’t black and white, we’ve got a whole lot of grey areas that lead to much more interesting discussions than everyone just shouting extremes one way or another.

With that said, the Thunder don’t lose back to back games, will figure the Pacers out, and cruise to the easiest series win of all time. (Take that Thunder fans trying to jinx the Pacers.)

[Coach Carter]

I'd be surprised if Pacers lose

[DCasey91]

A lot of the Vegas odds are dicated by billionaire gamblers all over the world (especially in China and Hong Kong) and have more money than sense/astute sporting acumen but they can easily write off their losses.

Vegas odds are 100% calculated to make the casinos the most money possible and lines will definitely change based on where people are putting their money when nothing about the basketball matchup that people are betting on has actually changed.

Despite that many people seem to assume the odds are just based on dispassionate analysis and data and treat odds as an accurate reflection of who Vegas thinks will win. The initial odds might start there, but where the bets are landing will cause oddsmakers to push the lines around to generate more income.

That isn't entirely true actually far from it. Yes odds are calculated via programs for basically 20 or so years. Some math wiz cracked the betting patterns as close to the horse race with a log equation and was making tens of millions a day... long story shot the Asian triads actually wanted to bring him in and copy his system into a comp program, turns out they made billions it's a fantastic little short doco on it on Youtube.

Gambling is really the best most used laundering scheme ever invented. Not feasible to gain physical bills by the truckload in an instant without something fishy going on because banks have limits on how much cash they give you. But getting say close to 90 cents on the dollar is excellent in terms of pure laundering more cash then the public would even believe is moved around on a second to second basis. Btw banks are in on it but that's a different story for a different time which is even a wilder exp.

I was indirectly involved in the ATP 250 scandal. Don't ask me how or why it got really scary. Cant talk about it nor info but let's just say one dude who was one of a dozen or so in a ring was moving half a mill a week on winning bets (97%98% wr) on really awkward live bets. Dude got angry I didn't have more to bet each time it got out of hand really really fast I'm talking less than an hour or so. It's like he predicted the future some matrix stuff. Could not make this up if I tried.

[durden_tyler]

SMH NBA bringing in Scott Foster for this game you know they want OKC to tie the series up 2-2. He allows OKC to get away with murder on defense.

Confirmation why OKC -6.0 is in play. Might be an easy Thunder blowout win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Big O]

OKC is slowly being exposed as of the biggest analytical fallacies the game has seen.

[Jailblazers7]

How likely do you think it's possible to come back and win from a 1-3 deficit against this Pacers team with one game on the road? Between 5 and 10%?

I know it's 1-2 right now but rather ask now because after the game we might have some overreaction.

If you assume 60% chance they win each home game & 40% chance they win on the road, then it’s a 14%-15% chance they win all 3. So 10%-15% is prob the rough odds.