Full rebuild for the Kings ? Is it really happening ?

[codydaze]

there are still people blaming Vivek for this mess btw. As if he's scouting draft prospects and taking older "win-now" prospects instead of most talented. As if he's calling G.M.s and agents and acquiring Dennis Schroder and Westbrook. As if he's the one extending Keegan "mid" Murray to a deal he doesn't nearly deserve. Sorry to those misinformed but this is an inept GM issue from both Monte McNair and Scott Perry not an owner issue. The only blame Vivek should be receiving is that he hired these two buffoons. This is disastrous. I don't think the NBA would even allow a superstar to be drafted by them and even if they didn't rig the lottery and the Kings somehow got a high pick the player would justifiably force his way elsewhere like Luka did. They're so screwed.

So you still believe both Monte McNair and Scott Perry have both tried to make "win-now" moves on their own accord? Or do you not believe Vivek is the one giving the directive that we should be trying to win and not green-lighting a teardown and rebuild?

I don't think you'll find anyone that thinks Vivek is personally scouting players and negotiating free agent deals, he's just telling the GM what direction to take the team and they're working within those parameters. To try and absolve Vivek of blame for where this organization is after 10+ years of the same story through multiple GMs and head coaches is seriously dumbfounding to me.

[wco81]

Simply put, this is an organization that needs a top 3 pick.

Unfortunately they've squandered high picks -- Bagley over Luka is the most obvious one but not the only one -- or even when they hit on one like Fox, he didn't want to stay and they got a poor return for him.

They gave Keegan a huge extension. Still young but he's not looking like a franchise player.

Well they have to keep drafting and hope to rebuild the roster with young players.

But other than the Light the Beam season, they've had a long playoffs drought.

[Mephariel]

there are still people blaming Vivek for this mess btw. As if he's scouting draft prospects and taking older "win-now" prospects instead of most talented. As if he's calling G.M.s and agents and acquiring Dennis Schroder and Westbrook. As if he's the one extending Keegan "mid" Murray to a deal he doesn't nearly deserve. Sorry to those misinformed but this is an inept GM issue from both Monte McNair and Scott Perry not an owner issue. The only blame Vivek should be receiving is that he hired these two buffoons. This is disastrous. I don't think the NBA would even allow a superstar to be drafted by them and even if they didn't rig the lottery and the Kings somehow got a high pick the player would justifiably force his way elsewhere like Luka did. They're so screwed.

So you still believe both Monte McNair and Scott Perry have both tried to make "win-now" moves on their own accord? Or do you not believe Vivek is the one giving the directive that we should be trying to win and not green-lighting a teardown and rebuild?

I don't think you'll find anyone that thinks Vivek is personally scouting players and negotiating free agent deals, he's just telling the GM what direction to take the team and they're working within those parameters. To try and absolve Vivek of blame for where this organization is after 10+ years of the same story through multiple GMs and head coaches is seriously dumbfounding to me.

That is my opinion as well. McNair was well regarded in Houston and clearly has a good eye for talent. He drafted both Hali and Keegan. He also got the team to the playoffs after signing Monk. The issue, as reported back then, was the mandate issued by Vivek to win now. I thought McNair did what he could to fast forward the team to a win now situation. I never thought he had the leeway to watch Hali and Fox played together and develop chemistry.

[Mephariel]

Simply put, this is an organization that needs a top 3 pick.

Unfortunately they've squandered high picks -- Bagley over Luka is the most obvious one but not the only one -- or even when they hit on one like Fox, he didn't want to stay and they got a poor return for him.

They gave Keegan a huge extension. Still young but he's not looking like a franchise player.

Well they have to keep drafting and hope to rebuild the roster with young players.

But other than the Light the Beam season, they've had a long playoffs drought.

I have no issue with drafting Keegan. It was either him or Ivey and Keegan had more defensive potential with his size. We also drafted Hali.

We should have kept Fox and Hali.

None of this change the fact that getting a high draft pick this year is our best chance.

[TimeisIllmatic]

Lakers gotta get in on this.

They could use Malik for a scoring punch off the bench but outside of that, I don't think any of the guys on the Kings are a good fit.

Vincent, Kleber, Knecht, and a 1st
for
Monk, Carter, and Clifford

I'd be down for that deal.

[Frank Dux]

Vivek is the type of owner who will temporarily agree to tank, but will immediately abandon the vision once another GM dangles a washed up guy with a name.

[codydaze]

Simply put, this is an organization that needs a top 3 pick.

Unfortunately they've squandered high picks -- Bagley over Luka is the most obvious one but not the only one -- or even when they hit on one like Fox, he didn't want to stay and they got a poor return for him.

They gave Keegan a huge extension. Still young but he's not looking like a franchise player.

Well they have to keep drafting and hope to rebuild the roster with young players.

But other than the Light the Beam season, they've had a long playoffs drought.

He also didn't get franchise player money though. He'll be making just around 15% of the cap each year of the extension (possibly less if there's a cap spike) which is just about what De'Andre Hunter is making this year.

[OxAndFox]

Vivek is the type of owner who will temporarily agree to tank, but will immediately abandon the vision once another GM dangles a washed up guy with a name.

100% this will happen. There is no doubt about it. History shows what Vivek is doing, and has done. He isn't the only problem, but he's 80% of it. I expect Klay Thompson to be a Sacramento Kings by the start of next year.

Honestly though, everything starts with what ownership wants, and Vivek absolutely knows he can do whatever he wants because people in Sacramento will keep showing up and supporting the team. It's almost sickening TBH. I mean you had A LOT of Kings fans actually thinking this is a good team. Honestly, that's not a joke. They won't admit it now though. You had A LOT of Kings fans actually thinking Doug is a good option as HC. Some actually still think this. Like WTF is/has been happening to the Sacramento Kings?

[LightTheBeam]

Kings fans deserve one, done right.

I don't understand this sentiment. they tanked for a majority of the 21st century. They picked in the top 5 multiple times. Their top 5 picks in this century were:
2009 - Tyreke Evans (ahead of Steph)
2010 - Cousins
2012 - Thomas Robinson (ahead of Dame)
2017 - Fox (good pick)
2018 - Bagley (everyone remembers this)
2022 - Keegan Murray (ok pick but not a game changer)

This is just top 5 picks, they have picked in the 5-10 range multiple times during this time. Tanking doesn't matter if you can't draft.

On the off-chance they make a good pick like Haliburton or Fox, they screw it up because they're the kings.

This isn't reality. Pre-2013 doesn't matter. The maloofs were cheap at the end, and unwilling to put any money in the team.

2013 vivek bought the team. Since then, he tried to build around Demarcus, when that failed he immediately got fox and tried to add vets to him.

A real rebuild is a sustained draft process for 3-5 years. Lets compare to say the Spurs to start -

2023 - #1
2024 - #4
2025 - #2

How about the Pistons?

2020 - #7
2021 - #1
2022 - #5
2023 - #5
2023 - #5

So 5 years straight no pick lower than #7, and 4/5 in the top 5 including 1st overall.

How about Cleveland post Lebron/Kyrie? (we know the luck they had the 1st time post Lebron)
2019 - #5
2020 - #5
2021 - #3

We can go back further and look at the Lakers in the mid 2010's.
LAL
2014 - #7
2015 - #2
2016 - #2
2017 - #2

So post Vivek taking the team (the real complaint from Kings fans that we've never tanked under Vivek), in 12 years we've had 3 top 5 picks. We hit on 2 of them, badly missed on 1. Kings fans want and deserve a real rebuild of 3-5 years of picking in the top end of the lottery, and at least 1-2 top 3 picks added in.

Saw a stat the other day. In 20 years the Kings have finished with under 30 wins 1 time. We haven't had over 50 wins in that time. So for 20 years we've been floating in no mans land between 30-40 wins. Absolute joke. To put in perspective a team like Cleveland has 6 finishes under 24 wins. In that same 20 years Pistons have finished below 30 wins 9 times.

Thats a disaster. Not a real tank.

[LightTheBeam]

Vivek is the type of owner who will temporarily agree to tank, but will immediately abandon the vision once another GM dangles a washed up guy with a name.

Yup, he will tank to get 1 player who seems good enough to build around, then immediately go back to adding vets around them. He never sees a true rebuild through. In the ideal scenario, once we got Fox, we saw Bagley sucked, we should have continued the tank adding more young lotto picks in 2019/2020. They should have sold Bogdan/Buddy at peak values, but instead they decided to add more vets like Joseph, Bjelica, Holmes, Barnes. That doomed the Fox rebuild before it even started.