Manu Ginobili Is Overrated

[AIfan3]

Desire to win? wahahhahahah you can have desire to win but if your team is full of scrubs it's not very easy to win. I would like to see ginobili in the bad teams vince carter had as the first option.

put manu on the nets, with kidd and rj, that team is maybe playing the celtics right now. vince carter might have twice the vertical leap of manu but he's got 1/10th the heart, 1/100th the fire, and 1/1,000,000th the balls.

.. Sarcasm?

[tracey_nice]

If you want to see why he is overrated just read through this read and you'll see, just because someone is overrated doesn't mean they are not a great player. When you hear people talking about Manu being the 2nd best sg in the league, or having equal output than Kobe Bryant, or switching him with VC and the Nets playing in the ECF, or people discussing him as MVP; thats what makes him overrated.

[HarlemHeat37]

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Agreed. The Spurs would suck without Ginobili and Parker but for some reason everybody always talks about "the greatest pf of all time" and how "big men win championships." Duncan is a good solid piece to build around but he wouldn't have won those four championships if he had played on bad teams his whole career like KG did.

Duncan has already won a championship with a "bad team"..nobody can actually win a championship with an actual bad team, but he did it with as bad a team as can qualify for an NBA title..


Udrih pointed it out..Duncan is the anchor of our team..he's the #1 option in the playoffs and he's the ANCHOR of the defense..honestly, Duncan/Bowen/Popovich have become underrated on defense..Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili are average defenders, Oberto is an average defender and Finley is a terrible defender, yet the Spurs team is still one of the best defensive teams in the NBA..that's partly Duncan's first impact..

Duncan is the QB of the team..the only guy that might get more hockey assists than Duncan is Kobe, maybe KG..Duncan STILL made an impact in the only bad series he had, because those doubles allowed the rest of the Spurs to get loose..there's no way any team would double Parker and Ginobili, which negates their play if they are shooting poorly..

Parker is one of the biggest beneficiaries in the NBA..most people realize this when they watch him play..

Ginobili NEVER gets double-teamed..

if Tony Parker or Manu are shooting poorly, neither guy does anything to make up for it..Manu used to be a good defender, but he's been average this year..Parker is an average defender..both guys become erratic and untrustworthy if their shot if off, especially Manu..

when Tim Duncan struggles with his shot, he still gives you great defense and rebounding..he still QB's the team..this is the main difference IMO..

Duncan is rated as well as he is, because he has already won a championship with 2 different sets of players..1 of them was completely different and 1 of them was with some of the same players, but they were average players at the time..he's already a proven himself as a dominant player..

NBA fans have the most short-term memory of any fans..they're also brainwashed by flash more than any other fanbase..guys like Duncan and Garnett can't be measured simply by their scoring outputs..sure, Pierce, Parker and Ginobili are going to put up big numbers once in a while, but Garnett and Duncan are the only ones on those teams that can impact the game in a dominant way without scoring, which is the main reason they're always rated so highly ahead of their teammates IMO..

[Mad Balla 15]

Desire to win? wahahhahahah you can have desire to win but if your team is full of scrubs it's not very easy to win. I would like to see ginobili in the bad teams vince carter had as the first option.

put manu on the nets, with kidd and rj, that team is maybe playing the celtics right now. vince carter might have twice the vertical leap of manu but he's got 1/10th the heart, 1/100th the fire, and 1/1,000,000th the balls.

Wow

[Mad Balla 15]

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Agreed. The Spurs would suck without Ginobili and Parker but for some reason everybody always talks about "the greatest pf of all time" and how "big men win championships." Duncan is a good solid piece to build around but he wouldn't have won those four championships if he had played on bad teams his whole career like KG did.

You're missing the point here. What I'm saying is that Ginobili gets overrated because he plays on a team with a great coach and arguably the greatest PF of all time. As well as playing with one of the top PGs in the game. What makes Ginobili better than Wade, Pierce, Vince, Johnson, T-Mac, AI etc.? People say that Ginobili is the 2nd best or 3rd best SG in the league but that's certainly not true. If someone like Wade, AI, Vince, Pierce, T-Mac, Johnson etc. were to play on that Spurs team would they not be winning championships? How can anyone possibly rate him as the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th best SG in the league when he's never had to carry a team as the number one option and never had to play ~40 minutes season after season while trying to break double and triple teams every night? The people who think he's overrated (myself included) can see that he's a good player, there's no disputing that but we just feel that he's rated too high.

There's no doubt that basketball is a TEAM game and you need a team to win but every shooting guard would look better playing next to Duncan and being coached by one of the best coaches this league has ever seen.

[667Club]

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Argentineans often consider themselves white. There are strong european influences there. Because of his style he and his play in Italy, people often refer to him as a "euro" even though he is from South America.

"Consider" themselves white ? Since most of these argentinians are recently emigrated ITALIANS, they ARE 100 % white. Even if i always thought that those racial categories you have in the usa are pretty dumb.

I think Ginobilli has both nationalities.

[Basileus777]

I don't know how anyone could argue that Manu isn't white. He's of Italian origin. He lives in Argentina, but so what? Argentina was a "settler colony", ie most of its inhabitants emigrated from Europe, they aren't of Native American origin.

[NO-KG-AI]

[quote="HarlemHeat37"][/quote]

[sp6r=underrated]

The value of Manu Ginobili is a significant dispute amongst basketball fans.

A significant portion of the basketball community, mostly made up of stat heads view him as one of the truly elite players in the league. Another significant portion of basketball fans, especially those who hate flopping, see nothing more than a glorified role player whose role could easily be filled by numerous shooting guards throughout the league.

The traditional criteria when evaluating basketball players is statistics, awards, team success, and how you view their individual skills while watching them play.

Manu

[Blame Rasho]

Kick ass avatar sp6r=underrated....The War was just an awesome fight to behold.

Oh yeah... you summed up everything that needed to be said about Manu.

[sp6r=underrated]

Kick ass avatar sp6r=underrated....The War was just an awesome fight to behold.

If you didn't see the HBO documentary on it, its a must watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr1y37l2J0o

[maradro]

i agree with sp6r=underrated, nice post.

i just want to add a couple things

1/ the olympics. manu was huge in the 02 WC, first time any team beat an NBA US national team, and he was huge again in the olympics. almost all of the guys that are being called "way better than him" played together on those teams, and lost. i know its "only" two games (both semifinals, if memory serves), but they were big games and manu was ridiculous in them. i think in athens he had something like 29pts on 12 shots

2/ why is it so easy to replace manu? couldnt you just replace shaq with duncan then in the lakers 3peat? replace kobe with ai? why not replace AI's philly finals run with kobe, he could PROBABLY do it right? I'm sorry but i just find that disrespectful, to suggest that players could be replaced so easily. even if kobe were capable of taking that sixers squad to the finals, i find it disrespectful to discount the fact that AI actually did it, not kobe. so while IMO kobe is > AI, i still think AI is one of the most incredible guards ever for that accomplishment, taking that sixers team to the finals on his 6ft 165lb back.

3/ as sp6r=underrated said, manu has been the closer for a team that's won 3 of 5. i dont think he's the GOAT, MVP of his team (let alone the league), or even a top 3 SG (but easily top 5 THIS YEAR), but to act like his role on the spurs isnt important and any above average SG could replace him, is pretty weak.

[KrazyP]

I don't think he's overrated. He's a great player on a great team. If he was on a bad team, he'd probably average around 25 ppg. I think that guys like Kevin Martin and Joe Johnson could replace him though.

Comparing Ginobili to Johnson is absurd.

Based on season stats
Ginobili vs Johnson
mpg - 31.0 / 40.8
fg% - .460 / .432
3pt% - .401 / .381
reb - 4.8 / 4.5
ast - 4.5 / 5.8
pts - 19.5 / 21.7

---> ginobili matches Johnson in every statistical category despite playing 10 less minutes a game

Clutch Scoring Stats
ginobili - 43.3ppg on 57.4 fg%
johnson - 27.8 ppg on 29.7 fg%

---> Ginobili raises his game under pressure whereas Johnson seems to crumble

[NO-KG-AI]

[quote="KrazyP"][/quote]

Ginobli is a 3rd option. bit easier to score when there are two guys getting more defensive attention than you.

[Serpo]

Wouldn't say that . His role changes from 1st to 2nd or 3rd from game to game .
Pop is going with the hot hand as first option for most of the time .

[NO-KG-AI]

But Duncan is always drawing the attention, doesn't matter what Manu is doing, he isn't the focus of gameplans, or defensive schemes.

[Double Helix]

I've always hated the whole point of "overrated" arguments. If you think about it, it's the fans you're mad at, not Manu. Do you realize how quickly most players go from "underrated" to "overrated?" The change usually happens over a season.

It's almost as if it's better for people to never recognize your abilities so that people can constantly make the "he's so underrated" argument and I just find that line of thinking completely ridiculous. It's in line with the those that want their favorite indie band to remain just small enough that they can pretend to sound smart and hip by introducing them to others, while not becoming big enough to make a great living. The bands, often like players in these arguments... haven't asked to be rated or compared, much less played or done anything differently... They've just received a bit more exposure and are no longer the "aren't I cool for knowing they're good but you aren't" hidden gem darlings that they once were and so the pendulum swings from underrated to overrated.

Only true MVP caliber talents and the total bench-warming scrubs of the league are ever"fairly rated." For everybody else, the pendulum swings back and forth, over and over again...

Swing... and repeat next season.

[sp6r=underrated]

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Ginobli is a 3rd option. bit easier to score when there are two guys getting more defensive attention than you.

He isn't a third option.

Manu was the spurs leading scorer this year, and only attempted about 1 and 1/2 shots less than Duncan/Parker per game. He spends a significant amount of time on the court without either of the two, and had the highest usage rate on the team. Finally, just watching him on the court you can see he faces significant defensive pressure and the Spurs don't use him anything like a third option.

He's a better player than Joe Johnson (especially when you factor in defense).

[MagiChamps]

Duncan has already won a championship with a "bad team"..nobody can actually win a championship with an actual bad team, but he did it with as bad a team as can qualify for an NBA title..

No.

[MagiChamps]

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You're missing the point here.

I wasn't talking to you...