Laker's supporting cast - over rated ?

[Old World Order]

That's pretty bad for a top 15ish all-time player. Of course it's absolutely amazing if you're Hersey Hawkins or Steve Blake or Delonte West, but you should expect that people are going to compare players to their peers. When folks say "Hey, that was a pretty good game by Marquis Daniels" they're not comparing him to Dwyane Wade. When someone says "Kobe was terrible" they're not talking about comparing him to your average starter. Come on now.

[Showtime:Part2]

That's pretty bad for a top 15ish all-time player. Of course it's absolutely amazing if you're Hersey Hawkins or Steve Blake or Delonte West, but you should expect that people are going to compare players to their peers. When folks say "Hey, that was a pretty good game by Marquis Daniels" they're not comparing him to Dwyane Wade. When someone says "Kobe was terrible" they're not talking about comparing him to your average starter. Come on now.

his efficiency was terrible, but everything else was not.

[Bgil]

Pau, Bynum, and Odom could all be #1 options on other teams.

Kobe's got damn good supporting players.

Kobe does have damn good players and there's no excuse for him to lose this season unless they get injured. But LO was a terrible 1st option during his Clipper days and Bynum certainly couldn't be one since he can't even stay healthy. Gasol has been a decent 1st option before, once. I'll give you that one, Gasol is a truly wonderful player.

Gasol wanot a good first option. He basically had the same flaws KG had in Minny. both guys are great secon options though.

[Bgil]

That's pretty bad for a top 15ish all-time player. Of course it's absolutely amazing if you're Hersey Hawkins or Steve Blake or Delonte West, but you should expect that people are going to compare players to their peers. When folks say "Hey, that was a pretty good game by Marquis Daniels" they're not comparing him to Dwyane Wade. When someone says "Kobe was terrible" they're not talking about comparing him to your average starter. Come on now.

You still have to weight it against the fact that he was playing against one of if not the best defense ever.
Lebron played much worse against that same D.

[Sofa King]

like ?

Kreuk is that you?

[Old World Order]

Showtime: So you're just saying his rebounding, assist numbers, and steals were good. Okay. The point is, on whole, that's not a good performance when weighed his peers.

Bgil: Okay?

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't see what your point is, Kobe was terrible and totally disappeared a few times when the Celtics were going on huge runs. Just because his team was bad doesn't mean he couldn't have played better.

We can only blame Kobe's casts for so long, I'm sorry, a lot of great great great players have had it a lot tougher than Kobe, and have still come through.

lol you're such a hater. kobe but up 26, 5, 5 and 2.7 stls. the only "terrible" aspect was he shot 40.5% from the field (against the league's best defense). really, truly, terrible. and are you so naive that you think supporting players playing poorly will have no effect on the superstar? finally, not sure if you're aware, but our real problem was defensive, not offensive. we gave up 102 ppg. our team shot 44% through the finals, not indicative of terrible offense. i didn't know kobe could stop 5 people by himself.

That's bad in comparison to top tier guys, or even Kobe when he's playing well. The fact that his team shot 44% and he shot 40% says a lot.

Kobe didn't have to stop 5 people by himself, but he could have stopped someone, the only person they really slowed down was Garnett. Gasol and Odom did a great job on him, the Celtics perimeter shooters went off. He didn't have to stop all 5, but one would have been nice.

LOL, I'm as big a KG fan as you will ever find, that isn't the best defense ever, you only think it is because they made Kobe their bitch.

[CodyB]

Kobe didn't put up 30/6/7 this year because he had an amazing cast that made up for those few odd points, rebounds and dimes with amazing efficiency and growing confidence.

Last years trip to the finals was alot of these players' first deep playoff run in their careers, they made lots of mistakes. As did Kobe, who took his team to the finals for the first time as the 1st option.

His teammates aren't necessarily 'veterans' of the playoffs this year, but they are definitely far more experienced and prepared for what they are about to face in the semis, conference and finals. So is Kobe. He just had his best season ever, where he didn't play at his statistical best but he let the game come to him.

**** yeah. Go Lakers.

[Jordan23Forever]

in the last twenty years the only teams with worse supporting casts that have won it all are duncan's spurs, and maybe hakeem's rockets. i exclude the pistons because there was no single superstar with a bunch of supporting guys, it was 3 all stars and other very good role players.

The '91-'93 Bulls were not as talented as these Lakers (outside of MJ/Kobe), and the '98 Bulls were worse as well due to age/injury/level of play from key players that year. A couple of Duncan's Spurs teams were less talented, as were the '06 Heat.

[Showtime:Part2]

in the last twenty years the only teams with worse supporting casts that have won it all are duncan's spurs, and maybe hakeem's rockets. i exclude the pistons because there was no single superstar with a bunch of supporting guys, it was 3 all stars and other very good role players.

The '91-'93 Bulls were not as talented as these Lakers (outside of MJ/Kobe), and the '98 Bulls were worse as well due to age/injury/level of play from key players that year. A couple of Duncan's Spurs teams were less talented, as were the '06 Heat.

i disagree regarding the bulls (rmr, we're talking about last yr w/o bynum and ariza). and the 06 heat played a dallas team that would probably have been swept by these celtics.

[Jordan23Forever]

i disagree regarding the bulls (rmr, we're talking about last yr w/o bynum and ariza).

Didn't realize that. Isn't the topic about this year's cast?

and the 06 heat played a dallas team that would probably have been swept by these celtics.

That's really irrelevant, since you can play "what if" games all day with any number of players and teams and matchups. Fact is, they won the title.

[Tesla]

Kobe didn't have to stop 5 people by himself, but he could have stopped someone, the only person they really slowed down was Garnett. Gasol and Odom did a great job on him, the Celtics perimeter shooters went off. He didn't have to stop all 5, but one would have been nice.

LOL, I'm as big a KG fan as you will ever find, that isn't the best defense ever, you only think it is because they made Kobe their bitch.

The Lakers did a good job on KG, as their strategy was to stop/swarm him. Kobe was that help defender most of the time, and helped force KG to contested jumpers or sometimes turnovers, it was the Lakers strategy with Kobe on Rondo sagging off to help shut down the Celtics best player in KG. Could Kobe have done a better job, when he did guard Ray Allen/Pierce? Certainly, but I don't think it was quite his fault for the perimeter players going off as it was due to team defense and the Lakers strategy, as well as the Celtics just stepping it up.

Kobe has done enough to solidify himself as one of the games greats, that's unarguable. If he doesn't win one as "the man" then that's just going to be a mixture of the Lakers running into better teams, and Kobe not being as great as some feel. As a Kobe fan, I have no problem with where his career is headed or how great he will eventually be measured up as a basketball player. He is undoubtedly done enough to be a top 50 greatest of all time, and most likely top 20. That's enough.

[Blame Rasho]

in the last twenty years the only teams with worse supporting casts that have won it all are duncan's spurs, and maybe hakeem's rockets. i exclude the pistons because there was no single superstar with a bunch of supporting guys, it was 3 all stars and other very good role players.

The '91-'93 Bulls were not as talented as these Lakers (outside of MJ/Kobe), and the '98 Bulls were worse as well due to age/injury/level of play from key players that year. A couple of Duncan's Spurs teams were less talented, as were the '06 Heat.

i disagree regarding the bulls (rmr, we're talking about last yr w/o bynum and ariza). and the 06 heat played a dallas team that would probably have been swept by these celtics.

The same Celtics that went 7 games with a below .500 Atlanta team would sweep that team? um ok...

[Bgil]

in the last twenty years the only teams with worse supporting casts that have won it all are duncan's spurs, and maybe hakeem's rockets. i exclude the pistons because there was no single superstar with a bunch of supporting guys, it was 3 all stars and other very good role players.

The '91-'93 Bulls were not as talented as these Lakers (outside of MJ/Kobe), and the '98 Bulls were worse as well due to age/injury/level of play from key players that year. A couple of Duncan's Spurs teams were less talented, as were the '06 Heat.

Pippen and Grant >> Gasol and Odom.
Armstrong, Paxson, Hodges >> Fisher, Farmar, Brown, Vujacic
King, Williams, Cartwright, Purdue < Bynum, Luke, Powell, and Ariza if Bynum can stay healthy and get back to his old self.

[Bgil]

Kobe didn't have to stop 5 people by himself, but he could have stopped someone, the only person they really slowed down was Garnett. Gasol and Odom did a great job on him, the Celtics perimeter shooters went off. He didn't have to stop all 5, but one would have been nice.

Go rewatch the series because you obviously don't remember what happened. Kobe locked down Ray Allen in games 1 and 2. But everytime anyone else was put Allen it was not pretty. Kobe was switched to Rondo in Game 3, putting Fisher on Ray Allen... Ray went off. Only after the Kobe-on-Rondo move did KG start playing like crap.

Even then the whole series saw KG dominate Gasol and Odom on the boards. Even Leon Powe got in there an beat them up down low.

LOL, I'm as big a KG fan as you will ever find, that isn't the best defense ever, you only think it is because they made Kobe their bitch.

I said it was the best defense ever before the finals even started. Remember, I called the series as a blowout win (near sweep) for the Celtics. In terms of scheme and technical execution the defense is clearly the best ever. The only statistically better defenses were the Spurs and Pistons at the end of the handcheck era (2003, 2004). If the C's were allowed the same amount of perimeter contact those teams were they would have been a vastly superior defense (statistically) without question.

[JordansBulls]

in the last twenty years the only teams with worse supporting casts that have won it all are duncan's spurs, and maybe hakeem's rockets. i exclude the pistons because there was no single superstar with a bunch of supporting guys, it was 3 all stars and other very good role players.

The '91-'93 Bulls were not as talented as these Lakers (outside of MJ/Kobe), and the '98 Bulls were worse as well due to age/injury/level of play from key players that year. A couple of Duncan's Spurs teams were less talented, as were the '06 Heat.

Pippen and Grant >> Gasol and Odom.
Armstrong, Paxson, Hodges >> Fisher, Farmar, Brown, Vujacic
King, Williams, Cartwright, Purdue < Bynum, Luke, Powell, and Ariza if Bynum can stay healthy and get back to his old self.

Overall they are, but in 1991 they were equal to Gasol and Odom last year.

And this year Gasol led the Lakers in win shares. That didn't happen on the Bulls where someone other than him led the team in win shares.

[The Skyhook]

Only if Bynum still wasn't dealing with post injury effects. If Bynum was at full force, Kobes supporting cast would be phenominal.

[Bgil]

The '91-'93 Bulls were not as talented as these Lakers (outside of MJ/Kobe), and the '98 Bulls were worse as well due to age/injury/level of play from key players that year. A couple of Duncan's Spurs teams were less talented, as were the '06 Heat.

Pippen and Grant >> Gasol and Odom.
Armstrong, Paxson, Hodges >> Fisher, Farmar, Brown, Vujacic
King, Williams, Cartwright, Purdue < Bynum, Luke, Powell, and Ariza if Bynum can stay healthy and get back to his old self.

Overall they are, but in 1991 they were equal to Gasol and Odom last year.

And this year Gasol led the Lakers in win shares. That didn't happen on the Bulls where someone other than him led the team in win shares.

After the 1991 season Pippen was selected to the Dream Team (although the team didn't play until a year later). He also put the clamps on James Worthy (injured but still) and Magic Johnson.

Pippen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Odom any day of the week.
Jordan wouldn't ever let anyone else lead the team in win shares. Even when MJ played on the Olympic team full of superstars he insisted on taking the msot shots. They could have swept the whole tourney without him and several other players yet he still needed to be the "star". He did the same thing at 40 with the Wiz. Bothteams would have been better without him trying to be the first option.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Jordan wouldn't ever let anyone else lead the team in win shares. Even when MJ played on the Olympic team full of superstars he insisted on taking the msot shots. They could have swept the whole tourney without him and several other players yet he still needed to be the "star". .

You know what's ironic is that I believe Kobe led team USA in shot attempts despite being far less efficient than Wade or Lebron.

http://www.usabasketball.com/seniormen/ ... ts/USA.HTM

Based on that he took 104 FGA's and converted on 48. Wade converted 47-70, Lebron 50-83..

[shobe_81]

Kobe was also the best defensive player of the Olympics for Team USA as was MJ for Dream Team.

You cannot blame Kobe for putting Lebron on his (Kobe's) back and showing the youngster how to get the Gold instead of the Bronze

I don't care what you guys say about who shot more, MJ or Kobe, or whatever

This past USA Team was a blast to watch:

Kobe: The Defensive stopper and Closer
Lebron: The Defensive helper, vocal leader, and Finisher
Wade: The sixth Man
Kidd: The Leader and offensive facilitator
D. Howard: The Inside Presence