Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[Dupp]

The fact there's been reports saying a trade will happen between the two teams in the coming days also lines up with the time Jackson is eligible to be traded gives me hope.

[DowJones]

Let me help you out. You are getting arguably a top 15 player in basketball and your worried about giving up a guy who wasnt even a top 3 pick in the draft who you have no idea will be good or not.

The Cavs gave up the #1 overall pick in the draft who might be twice the prospect Jackson is for Kevin Love. You would agree that Kyrie is better than Kevin Love right? Then why are some fans thinking Josh Jackson is some sort of untradable sure-fire future star.

I get the 'keep building' mentality but Kyrie is 25 years old, Eric Bledsoe has only played 2 healthy seasons in 7 years and Josh Jackson is a good not great prospect. Kyrie IS your 'building' piece who has already established himself as a 4x All-Star still developing.

I'll see your Kevin Love trade and raise you Jimmy Butler. Or Paul George. Or Chris Paul.

The Suns should not cave on Josh Jackson. Eric Bledsoe, Tyson Chandler + one of Warren/Chriss/Bender or walk away.

Exactly. Recent precedent is more reliable than a few years ago. Also, there is no reason to suddenly cut off at "not even a top 3 pick" when you're talking about the #4 pick. That's incredible cherry picking, and you're trying to use that to diminish his value as a building block, which is fallacious thinking. If you only liken Jackson to a "good not great prospect" then take Miami's draft pick or one of Warren or Chriss. Your criticism of Jackson doesn't match up with your want of him.

To add to that, Irving hasn't mentioned the Suns as a place he'd like to land, so we wouldn't risk him walking on us in two years and not having Josh Jackson.

The facts are that we don't need Irving whilst he wants off your team. Looking at those recent trades for Butler, George, Paul, even Cousins, you should feel fortunate that a player of Eric Bledsoe's quality is being discussed in these rumors.

Eric Bledsoe is an average starting PG with horrible knees. He put up inflated stats on a terrible team. His value is a mid-late first round pick. Let's not make him out to be something that he isn't.

Cleveland would be much better off taking Kemba if thst is the best offer from Phoenix.

[clyde21]

I'll see your Kevin Love trade and raise you Jimmy Butler. Or Paul George. Or Chris Paul.

The Suns should not cave on Josh Jackson. Eric Bledsoe, Tyson Chandler + one of Warren/Chriss/Bender or walk away.

Exactly. Recent precedent is more reliable than a few years ago. Also, there is no reason to suddenly cut off at "not even a top 3 pick" when you're talking about the #4 pick. That's incredible cherry picking, and you're trying to use that to diminish his value as a building block, which is fallacious thinking. If you only liken Jackson to a "good not great prospect" then take Miami's draft pick or one of Warren or Chriss. Your criticism of Jackson doesn't match up with your want of him.

To add to that, Irving hasn't mentioned the Suns as a place he'd like to land, so we wouldn't risk him walking on us in two years and not having Josh Jackson.

The facts are that we don't need Irving whilst he wants off your team. Looking at those recent trades for Butler, George, Paul, even Cousins, you should feel fortunate that a player of Eric Bledsoe's quality is being discussed in these rumors.

And I will raise you Paul George has 1 year left on his contract, Kyrie has 2 years. And I will double down with Jimmy Butler is 28 and Kyrie is 25.

And that's why I'm already giving you a better return than what George/Butler got (even though they're both better players) without having to include Josh Jackson.

Sorry, not happening.

[Dupp]

Exactly. Recent precedent is more reliable than a few years ago. Also, there is no reason to suddenly cut off at "not even a top 3 pick" when you're talking about the #4 pick. That's incredible cherry picking, and you're trying to use that to diminish his value as a building block, which is fallacious thinking. If you only liken Jackson to a "good not great prospect" then take Miami's draft pick or one of Warren or Chriss. Your criticism of Jackson doesn't match up with your want of him.

To add to that, Irving hasn't mentioned the Suns as a place he'd like to land, so we wouldn't risk him walking on us in two years and not having Josh Jackson.

The facts are that we don't need Irving whilst he wants off your team. Looking at those recent trades for Butler, George, Paul, even Cousins, you should feel fortunate that a player of Eric Bledsoe's quality is being discussed in these rumors.

And I will raise you Paul George has 1 year left on his contract, Kyrie has 2 years. And I will double down with Jimmy Butler is 28 and Kyrie is 25.

And that's why I'm already giving you a better return than what George/Butler got (even though they're both better players) without having to include Josh Jackson.

Sorry, not happening.

It might though. We'll know for sure in a day or two.

[LikeABosh]

Read on Twitter

I was listening when this happened. Heres the breakdown.

--They were in another segment talking about the Indians or something.
--The producer of the show interrupts and says a local reporter/beat writer was on the phone for Tony Rizzo (the guy talking)
--Rizzo asked if it was something they could share live or if it was private.
--The producer said IDK you could share it on air if you want
--Rizzo said he will call him back after the segment
--After they came back from commercial and got back into Cavs talk he dropped this soundbite.

Take it for what you will but Rizzo is pretty tight with Dan Gilbert. He was in the draft room as a guest with Dan when they got Kyrie. Not saying his word and sources are gospel, but usually when he drops stuff like this there is some credibility behind it.

Thanks for the context.

Doesn't mean the info. can't be wrong, but at least we're hearing it from someone who is at least trustworthy compared to SAS or Amico. Josh Jackson is also eligible to be traded in the coming days so maybe that's where the rumor is coming from

[LikeABosh]

Even if Cavs don't nab JJ, they could still make out okay with the Miami pick (package with Frye or Shump for someone decent) or TJ Warren who is actually a solid player

[clyde21]

Even if Cavs don't nab JJ, they could still make out okay with the Miami pick (package with Frye or Shump for someone decent) or TJ Warren who is actually a solid player

I agree with this.

Eric Bledsoe
Tyson Chandler
T.J. Warren

is a really good return, IMO. I'll take that and run.

[LivingLegend]

Read on Twitter

I was listening when this happened. Heres the breakdown.

--They were in another segment talking about the Indians or something.
--The producer of the show interrupts and says a local reporter/beat writer was on the phone for Tony Rizzo (the guy talking)
--Rizzo asked if it was something they could share live or if it was private.
--The producer said IDK you could share it on air if you want
--Rizzo said he will call him back after the segment
--After they came back from commercial and got back into Cavs talk he dropped this soundbite.

Take it for what you will but Rizzo is pretty tight with Dan Gilbert. He was in the draft room as a guest with Dan when they got Kyrie. Not saying his word and sources are gospel, but usually when he drops stuff like this there is some credibility behind it.

Thanks for the context.

Doesn't mean the info. can't be wrong, but at least we're hearing it from someone who is at least trustworthy compared to SAS or Amico. Josh Jackson is also eligible to be traded in the coming days so maybe that's where the rumor is coming from

I mean yeah, it could very just well be a regurgitated report of 'The Cavs are asking for Bledsoe and Jackson" and nothing has really happened.

[LivingLegend]

Even if Cavs don't nab JJ, they could still make out okay with the Miami pick (package with Frye or Shump for someone decent) or TJ Warren who is actually a solid player

What is this TJ Warren stuff. From raw numbers he is a 14/5 per game guy who shoots an abysmal 26% from deep. Thats not a fit on the Cavs who revolve around floor spacing and shooting. Honestly though, Ive never really seen him play. Is he a uber elite defender or something?

"Phoenix is reportedly unwilling to surrender Jackson in a deal for Irving and it’s unknown what the franchise is actually offering for the point guard. Steve Kyler of Basketball Insiders (Twitter link) speculates Cleveland does send Irving to the Suns that a package of Bledsoe, T.J. Warren and potentially Marquese Chriss would be the likeliest haul. Kyler believes Phoenix would have to take back Iman Shumpert in that scenario."

I would hate that. Kyrie Irving + Shumpert for a bad version of Kyrie and 2 young bench players while we essentially hand Phoenix their future with Kyrie/Booker/Jackson? Heck no. If Im the Cavs and Im dealing Kyrie Irving, Im getting a blue chip player in return even if that means blowing up the Nuggets for Jamal Murray + Wilson Chandler.

[jbk1234]

Even if Cavs don't nab JJ, they could still make out okay with the Miami pick (package with Frye or Shump for someone decent) or TJ Warren who is actually a solid player

What is this TJ Warren stuff. From raw numbers he is a 14/5 per game guy who shoots an abysmal 26% from deep. Thats not a fit on the Cavs who revolve around floor spacing and shooting. Honestly though, Ive never really seen him play. Is he a uber elite defender or something?

"Phoenix is reportedly unwilling to surrender Jackson in a deal for Irving and it’s unknown what the franchise is actually offering for the point guard. Steve Kyler of Basketball Insiders (Twitter link) speculates Cleveland does send Irving to the Suns that a package of Bledsoe, T.J. Warren and potentially Marquese Chriss would be the likeliest haul. Kyler believes Phoenix would have to take back Iman Shumpert in that scenario."

I would hate that. Kyrie Irving + Shumpert for a bad version of Kyrie and 2 young bench scrubs while we essentially hand Phoenix their future with Kyrie/Booker/Jackson? Heck no.

He's awful defensively & he's coming off his rookie contract. Honestly, if Jackson isn't on the table. Tell the Suns to keep their young players & just back up the pick truck. Or, better yet, just call the Knicks and see what picks they'd add to Frank.

[LikeABosh]

What is this TJ Warren stuff. From raw numbers he is a 14/5 per game guy who shoots an abysmal 26% from deep. Thats not a fit on the Cavs who revolve around floor spacing and shooting. Honestly though, Ive never really seen him play. Is he a uber elite defender or something?.

He doesn't really shoot from deep so the 26% from deep last season means as much as the 40% from the season before. He has a decent J though and he's a great cutter. Nothing amazing about his defense, but he'd still be a great bench player compared to what the Cavs had to deal with in the finals. Honestly not sure you wouldn't rather have Derrick Williams back instead tho

"Phoenix is reportedly unwilling to surrender Jackson in a deal for Irving and it’s unknown what the franchise is actually offering for the point guard. Steve Kyler of Basketball Insiders (Twitter link) speculates Cleveland does send Irving to the Suns that a package of Bledsoe, T.J. Warren and potentially Marquese Chriss would be the likeliest haul. Kyler believes Phoenix would have to take back Iman Shumpert in that scenario."

I would hate that. Kyrie Irving + Shumpert for a bad version of Kyrie and 2 young bench scrubs while we essentially hand Phoenix their future with Kyrie/Booker/Jackson? Heck no.

I wouldn't do that trade unless the Miami pick was involved. Chriss is more valuable to Phx than Cleveland.

Also, the drop off from Irving to Bledsoe is sizeable in a vacuum, but I really don't think the Cavs suffer that much from it. He's not a ball stopper and he's a good defender

[LivingLegend]

What is this TJ Warren stuff. From raw numbers he is a 14/5 per game guy who shoots an abysmal 26% from deep. Thats not a fit on the Cavs who revolve around floor spacing and shooting. Honestly though, Ive never really seen him play. Is he a uber elite defender or something?.

He doesn't really shoot from deep so the 26% from deep last season means as much as the 40% from the season before. He has a decent J though and he's a great cutter. Nothing amazing about his defense, but he'd still be a great bench player compared to what the Cavs had to deal with in the finals. Honestly not sure you wouldn't rather have Derrick Williams back instead tho

"Phoenix is reportedly unwilling to surrender Jackson in a deal for Irving and it’s unknown what the franchise is actually offering for the point guard. Steve Kyler of Basketball Insiders (Twitter link) speculates Cleveland does send Irving to the Suns that a package of Bledsoe, T.J. Warren and potentially Marquese Chriss would be the likeliest haul. Kyler believes Phoenix would have to take back Iman Shumpert in that scenario."

I would hate that. Kyrie Irving + Shumpert for a bad version of Kyrie and 2 young bench scrubs while we essentially hand Phoenix their future with Kyrie/Booker/Jackson? Heck no.

I wouldn't do that trade unless the Miami pick was involved. Chriss is more valuable to Phx than Cleveland.

Also, the drop off from Irving to Bledsoe is sizeable in a vacuum, but I really don't think the Cavs suffer that much from it. He's not a ball stopper and he's a good defender

Right, it seems like Warren is just a guy who is a standard issue bench wing player who doesnt wow you at anything and Chriss is tremendously raw and relies on his athleticism to make an impact, not skill. Honestly reminds me of a SF version of Tristan Thompson. A hustle guy who scorers a bucket here and there off dunks and is a good defender.

I like Bledsoe but like you said, the gap between him and Kyrie is pretty large and history says he will get injured and only play 45-55 games a season. If history holds true and he does, you essentially gave up Kyrie for two 22 year old bench players.

Hence why Gilbert needs to work some magic and make sure the Cavs get a blue chip back in return like Jackson, Wiggins, Murray, Kemba, ect. If you cant, then keep him and make Kyrie/LeBron go to couples therapy to figure it out.

[bwgood77]

I'll see your Kevin Love trade and raise you Jimmy Butler. Or Paul George. Or Chris Paul.

The Suns should not cave on Josh Jackson. Eric Bledsoe, Tyson Chandler + one of Warren/Chriss/Bender or walk away.

Exactly. Recent precedent is more reliable than a few years ago. Also, there is no reason to suddenly cut off at "not even a top 3 pick" when you're talking about the #4 pick. That's incredible cherry picking, and you're trying to use that to diminish his value as a building block, which is fallacious thinking. If you only liken Jackson to a "good not great prospect" then take Miami's draft pick or one of Warren or Chriss. Your criticism of Jackson doesn't match up with your want of him.

To add to that, Irving hasn't mentioned the Suns as a place he'd like to land, so we wouldn't risk him walking on us in two years and not having Josh Jackson.

The facts are that we don't need Irving whilst he wants off your team. Looking at those recent trades for Butler, George, Paul, even Cousins, you should feel fortunate that a player of Eric Bledsoe's quality is being discussed in these rumors.

Eric Bledsoe is an average starting PG with horrible knees. He put up inflated stats on a terrible team. His value is a mid-late first round pick. Let's not make him out to be something that he isn't.

Cleveland would be much better off taking Kemba if thst is the best offer from Phoenix.

Why would Charlotte trade Kemba for him? Why would any team not on his list give up much for him? I have no idea what Phx will do, but with the west as tough as it is, and the Suns not ready to make the playoffs, adding Kyrie for two years when he likely walks after that probably sets them back more in the long run. They trade a young key piece for him and a pick or two, and get worse draft picks the next two years, and then are left with an empty bag.

I don't know how they could have any confidence in him staying. Why would the worst team in the league give up their young prospects for a top 15 player who doesn't likely even get them in the playoffs and will likely want to move to a contender or NY in 2 years?

Someone mentioned Wiggins being traded for Love...there couldn't be a worse comparison. You're talking about a team with LeBron and Kyrie, trading a hyped rookie for an all star for a win now team. They wanted someone to help them win now.

How is that comparable to the Suns in any way?

I won't be surprised if the Suns trade away the farm for him though because Sarver is who he is.

[clyde21]

Also, the drop off from Irving to Bledsoe is sizeable in a vacuum, but I really don't think the Cavs suffer that much from it. He's not a ball stopper and he's a good defender

I don't think it's sizeable at all. Bledsoe is actually a better defender and playmaker, and FWIW, Kyrie was 12th among PGs in RPM and Bledsoe was 15th. Marginal difference from that standpoint.

[Cavaliers2]

Wasn't Kyrie included in George trade offers? Isn't that part of why he's pissed?

Yep

Kyrie justifiably felt he was an untouchable on this team along with Bron. But when he sees team management acquiesce yet again to Bron in order to get him guys that only Bron can win with, it rightfully set Kyrie off the deep end . Context here matters since Kyrie has publicly stated he's been waiting patiently to make this his own team.

Plus there's the statement from Rob Parker on the Herd where Bron supposedly asked the team to trade Kyrie for CP3 even after they won their title. Remember earlier in that year Bron talked about his hope to have the banana boat team one day.

As much as it seems Kyrie is dissing Bron right now, Bron's been dissing him ever since he took back this team.

It was reported that the cavs repeatedly turned down PG for Kyrie offers....the proposed deal that almost happened was love getting traded.

[LivingLegend]

Exactly. Recent precedent is more reliable than a few years ago. Also, there is no reason to suddenly cut off at "not even a top 3 pick" when you're talking about the #4 pick. That's incredible cherry picking, and you're trying to use that to diminish his value as a building block, which is fallacious thinking. If you only liken Jackson to a "good not great prospect" then take Miami's draft pick or one of Warren or Chriss. Your criticism of Jackson doesn't match up with your want of him.

To add to that, Irving hasn't mentioned the Suns as a place he'd like to land, so we wouldn't risk him walking on us in two years and not having Josh Jackson.

The facts are that we don't need Irving whilst he wants off your team. Looking at those recent trades for Butler, George, Paul, even Cousins, you should feel fortunate that a player of Eric Bledsoe's quality is being discussed in these rumors.

Eric Bledsoe is an average starting PG with horrible knees. He put up inflated stats on a terrible team. His value is a mid-late first round pick. Let's not make him out to be something that he isn't.

Cleveland would be much better off taking Kemba if thst is the best offer from Phoenix.

Why would Charlotte trade Kemba for him? Why would any team not on his list give up much for him? I have no idea what Phx will do, but with the west as tough as it is, and the Suns not ready to make the playoffs, adding Kyrie for two years when he likely walks after that probably sets them back more in the long run. They trade a young key piece for him and a pick or two, and get worse draft picks the next two years, and then are left with an empty bag.

I don't know how they could have any confidence in him staying. Why would the worst team in the league give up their young prospects for a top 15 player who doesn't likely even get them in the playoffs and will likely want to move to a contender or NY in 2 years?

Someone mentioned Wiggins being traded for Love...there couldn't be a worse comparison. You're talking about a team with LeBron and Kyrie, trading a hyped rookie for an all star for a win now team. They wanted someone to help them win now.

How is that comparable to the Suns in any way?

I won't be surprised if the Suns trade away the farm for him though because Sarver is who he is.

Essentially because you can either try to make your squad get on the map by adding Kyrie and see what happens with a Kyrie/Booker combo and if that can lead to any good future FAs wanting to come play in PHX or you can sit on your hands with young guys and wait 3-4 years and pray they all develop and be good. Ownership doesnt want to wait a few more years to have the pieces fall when they can have a premier young talent like Kyrie right now and make money now.

Also, I like the Suns prospects but its not like they are sitting on a gold mine of blue chip prospects like the 76ers are. The Suns have hoard of young guys but none of the guys blow you away with surefire cant miss talent. It looks like they have 2 good young starters with Booker/Jackson and 2 perennial rotational players with Chriss/Warren. If thats the case and Booker/Jackson do turn out to be good its going to be yeeeeeears before they are making noise in the playoffs.

Its a double edged sword, but I would much rather try to make a splash and roll the dice with Kyrie over intentially putting myself in basketball purgatory with a waiting game until the 2020 season and praying everybody works out just to maybe sneak a 8th seed in 3 years.

[axeman23]

Jordan's reaction to losing was to blame his teammates and try to play GM, which is exactly what people are accusing LeBron of doing.

That is simply not true. Even after all these years secrets like that become known. I have watched MJ his entire career and not ONCE has he ever thrown a teammate under the bus. So find proof, or retract the statement.

Quotes from "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith:

"I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don't get you the ball."

"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything."

"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."

On Brad Sellers: "It's a hell of a lot easier to make Earl Monroe look good than it is Brad Sellers."

On Will Perdue: "He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him."

On Stacey King: "Big, fat, fat guy. One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward."

On Horace Grant: "You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you."

On Bill Cartwright: "If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."

"Jordan believed that [Johnny] Dawkins would be the choice [in the 1987 draft], and he had told Dawkins so in pickup games they played in North Carolina. So when the Bulls skipped Dawkins for [Brad] Sellers, Jordan felt embarrassed."

"Jordan lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey's Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn't particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause's other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams."

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

"I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

Jordan famously punched Steve Kerr, punched Jud Buechler and Will Perdue, and tried to start a fight with Robert Parish (but backed down when Parish made it clear he wasn't intimidated by him).

Less than three months ago, Michael Jordan... regularly rebuked Bulls GM Jerry Krause for failing to measure the bench to title specifications... So what if management didn't adhere to Air Supremacy's public outcry for Walter Davis or LaSalle Thompson?

After learning that NBA veteran and former North Carolina Tar Heel Walter Davis had been traded to Portland and not the Bulls, Jordan responded before a game against the Nets. "As soon as we get back, I'm calling (Jerry) Reinsdorf. Krause has messed everything up again. He can't do anything."

http://thebiglead.com/2017/02/07/jerry-krause-assertion-that-michael-jordan-never-lobbied-for-help-is-revisionist-bs/

Is that enough for you? In contrast, when LeBron asked for a backup point guard to run the offense in spot minutes last year, it was as if the world was ending.

Seriously. What rock has this guy been hiding under? Those quotes have been common discussion points on the board before. Has he not heard of Google?

[bwgood77]

Eric Bledsoe is an average starting PG with horrible knees. He put up inflated stats on a terrible team. His value is a mid-late first round pick. Let's not make him out to be something that he isn't.

Cleveland would be much better off taking Kemba if thst is the best offer from Phoenix.

Why would Charlotte trade Kemba for him? Why would any team not on his list give up much for him? I have no idea what Phx will do, but with the west as tough as it is, and the Suns not ready to make the playoffs, adding Kyrie for two years when he likely walks after that probably sets them back more in the long run. They trade a young key piece for him and a pick or two, and get worse draft picks the next two years, and then are left with an empty bag.

I don't know how they could have any confidence in him staying. Why would the worst team in the league give up their young prospects for a top 15 player who doesn't likely even get them in the playoffs and will likely want to move to a contender or NY in 2 years?

Someone mentioned Wiggins being traded for Love...there couldn't be a worse comparison. You're talking about a team with LeBron and Kyrie, trading a hyped rookie for an all star for a win now team. They wanted someone to help them win now.

How is that comparable to the Suns in any way?

I won't be surprised if the Suns trade away the farm for him though because Sarver is who he is.

Essentially because you can either try to make your squad get on the map by adding Kyrie and see what happens with a Kyrie/Booker combo and if that can lead to any good future FAs wanting to come play in PHX or you can sit on your hands with young guys and wait 3-4 years and pray they all develop and be good. Ownership doesnt want to wait a few more years to have the pieces fall when they can have a premier young talent like Kyrie right now and make money now.

Also, I like the Suns prospects but its not like they are sitting on a gold mine of blue chip prospects like the 76ers are. The Suns have hoard of young guys but none of the guys blow you away with surefire cant miss talent. It looks like they have 2 good young starters with Booker/Jackson and 2 perennial rotational players with Chriss/Warren. If thats the case and Booker/Jackson do turn out to be good its going to be yeeeeeears before they are making noise in the playoffs.

Its a double edged sword, but I would much rather try to make a splash and roll the dice with Kyrie over intentially putting myself in basketball purgatory with a waiting game until the 2020 season and praying everybody works out just to maybe sneak a 8th seed in 3 years.

Many Suns fans feel as you do, so it's all a matter of perspective and opinion. Chriss and Bender are extremely raw and Warren is extremely underrated. I understand if anyone looks at Warren's numbers why they wouldn't consider him much of a talent though, and I'm happy about that, because I think he is overlooked and won't hold much trade value or command much money, but I think he is good. Not a blue chip guy but a definite important rotation guy. It's way too early to judge Chriss and Bender much. They are still two of the youngest guys in the league, even after this draft.

But yeah, the owner will probably do what you suggest. I don't think Kyrie and Booker are a great pairing in the backcourt. The Suns will without a doubt have the worst defense in the league.

But of course if the Suns don't have to give up much, it's hard not to make the trade. If they have to give up a lot, I don't like it much.

[Azsports77]

Cavs fans need to realize their team doesn't have very much leverage it's obvious after what Irving has done and no team has offered what the Cavilers have asked for. The reason being that they know that Kyrie if he is still their at the beginning of the season will be a cancer . The Suns have the best offer and that doesn't include Josh Jackson and will never include him because you can't guarantee that he will stay with the Suns in two years it's the main reason besides the one I pointed out for why no team will give Cavs what they want. Also since when has any team trading an all star or superstar ever gotten equal value when said team has very little leaverage the answer is never.

[LikeABosh]

Also, the drop off from Irving to Bledsoe is sizeable in a vacuum, but I really don't think the Cavs suffer that much from it. He's not a ball stopper and he's a good defender

I don't think it's sizeable at all. Bledsoe is actually a better defender and playmaker, and FWIW, Kyrie was 12th among PGs in RPM and Bledsoe was 15th. Marginal difference from that standpoint.

Might be. Bledsoe is a better scorer than I thought. If you figure Irving to be a top 10 scorer using ppg and TS%, then Bledsoe is in the top 25 (but probably more in the 30's once you stretch it players who are slightly less efficient than him but obviously carry a larger load)