2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[Sharkboy242]

WTH is with you 79ers fans? Jokic lives rent free in your head. Where did I mention the 76ers? I was replying to a poster about Jokic being pedestrian.

Scoring only matters you said. You are referring to players who are scoring more than Jokic, with Embiid being one of them. Maybe come up with a more original statement than "rent free in your head". Sounds more like you're just super defensive when you see that your golden boy's team isn't very good, and they're getting waxed by the Jazz.

Again my original post was directed at Jokic the last couple of weeks. Also I never said scoring only matters I was repeating the asinine remark Hussien posted. Again where did I bring up Embiid and sixers?? I mean come on guys. This is becoming stupid at this point

Dude has to invent fake straw men in his head to attack and take his rage on. Jokic is this deep in his head.

[eyeatoma]

Scoring only matters you said. You are referring to players who are scoring more than Jokic, with Embiid being one of them. Maybe come up with a more original statement than "rent free in your head". Sounds more like you're just super defensive when you see that your golden boy's team isn't very good, and they're getting waxed by the Jazz.

Again my original post was directed at Jokic the last couple of weeks. Also I never said scoring only matters I was repeating the asinine remark Hussien posted. Again where did I bring up Embiid and sixers?? I mean come on guys. This is becoming stupid at this point

Dude has to invent fake straw men in his head to attack and take his rage on. Jokic is this deep in his head.

Bruh, how many times have you responded to my posts. Talk about being in someone's head. Clearly we don't agree what's the point of you commenting at all?

[AleksandarN]

Again my original post was directed at Jokic the last couple of weeks. Also I never said scoring only matters I was repeating the asinine remark Hussien posted. Again where did I bring up Embiid and sixers?? I mean come on guys. This is becoming stupid at this point

Dude has to invent fake straw men in his head to attack and take his rage on. Jokic is this deep in his head.

Bruh, how many times have you responded to my posts. Talk about being in someone's head. Clearly we don't agree what's the point of you commenting at all?

Take your own advice when someone talks about Jokic you don’t have to bring up embid and the sixers. Especially when the poster didn’t bring it up in the first place. You and Hussien do this all the time. Really you guys should stop for your own good. Looks bad on you.

[eyeatoma]

Dude has to invent fake straw men in his head to attack and take his rage on. Jokic is this deep in his head.

Bruh, how many times have you responded to my posts. Talk about being in someone's head. Clearly we don't agree what's the point of you commenting at all?

Take your own advice when someone talks about Jokic you don’t have to bring up embid and the sixers. Especially when the poster didn’t bring it up in the first place. You and Hussien do this all the time. Really you guys should stop for your own good. Looks bad on you.

Any chance you'll take the same advice?

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[Sharkboy242]

Bruh, how many times have you responded to my posts. Talk about being in someone's head. Clearly we don't agree what's the point of you commenting at all?

Take your own advice when someone talks about Jokic you don’t have to bring up embid and the sixers. Especially when the poster didn’t bring it up in the first place. You and Hussien do this all the time. Really you guys should stop for your own good. Looks bad on you.

Any chance you'll take the same advice?

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Literally all your rebuttals always boil down to "no you"

[AleksandarN]

Bruh, how many times have you responded to my posts. Talk about being in someone's head. Clearly we don't agree what's the point of you commenting at all?

Take your own advice when someone talks about Jokic you don’t have to bring up embid and the sixers. Especially when the poster didn’t bring it up in the first place. You and Hussien do this all the time. Really you guys should stop for your own good. Looks bad on you.

Any chance you'll take the same advice?

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Show me when I have brought up Jokic out of the blue when people talking about Embiid or the sixers.?

LOL good luck

[Freighttrain]

Got a feeling Luka is finally going to enter the conversation in a few weeks. He's been playing great

[Johnny Firpo]

Joker once again was +5 in a game they've lost by 20, with a 25/15/14 TD. It's so ridiculous how little help he gets from his teammates.

[Johnny Firpo]

Got a feeling Luka is finally going to enter the conversation in a few weeks. He's been playing great

He is improving, but he is still not great. It's too late for him this season, maybe next year if he comes into camp in better shape.

[Dutchball97]

Got a feeling Luka is finally going to enter the conversation in a few weeks. He's been playing great

He is improving, but he is still not great. It's too late for him this season, maybe next year if he comes into camp in better shape.

If Dallas ends up above Memphis I think Luka might just get the All-NBA 1st team nod based on reputation, whether deserved or not. For MVP consideration he'd need to perform like 91 MJ for the rest of the season and even then he's probably still too far off the performance of the likes of Giannis and Jokic over the season on average.

[Freighttrain]

Got a feeling Luka is finally going to enter the conversation in a few weeks. He's been playing great

He is improving, but he is still not great. It's too late for him this season, maybe next year if he comes into camp in better shape.

There is still another 50% of the season left. He must put on a 2014 KD February streak or something to come close, but there is a chance considering the Mavs latest 7-1 record and his numbers have gone up

[scrabbarista]

Joker once again was +5 in a game they've lost by 20, with a 25/15/14 TD. It's so ridiculous how little help he gets from his teammates.

And he did it on efficient shooting and low turnovers on the second night of a back to back. Triple double in both games, IIRC.

They were outscored by 28 in the eleven minutes he didn't play.

He's been the best player so far this season. Actually, he's having one of the greatest seasons ever by both stats and (especially) impact. But in order to win some people's votes he, apparently, needs to find a way to play even when he's not playing.

[KGtabake]

Joker once again was +5 in a game they've lost by 20, with a 25/15/14 TD. It's so ridiculous how little help he gets from his teammates.

And he did it on efficient shooting and low turnovers on the second night of a back to back. Triple double in both games, IIRC.

They were outscored by 28 in the eleven minutes he didn't play.

He's been the best player so far this season. Actually, he's having one of the greatest seasons ever by both stats and (especially) impact. But, in order to win some people's votes, he apparently needs to find a way to play even when he's not playing.

He was the best player last season as well.
If he wasn't Serbian and he was playing for the Lakers instead of AD, things would have been way different this season too, for the media who vote for the MVP.

[ty 4191]

Among other metrics, Jokic currently leads Giannis, by either a substantial or a fractional amount this year in:

--WS
--WS/48
--VORP
--BPM
--EPM
--RAPTOR
--PIE

Pettit (56') Kareem (76') played on teams that didn't make the playoffs and still won MVPs.

The only other MVP winners to play for a team that won fewer than 60% of its regular season games are (they still qualified for the playoffs):

--Moses Malone twice for Houston Rockets, in 1978-79 (47–35, .573) and 1981-82 (46–36, .561).

--Bob McAdoo for Buffalo Braves, in 1974–75 (49–33, .598).

--Russell Westbook for the 2016-2017 Oklahoma City Thunder (47-35, .573).

Of the MVPs to date (from 1955-56 to 2020-2021):

41 played for the team with that year’s best regular season record.

25 of them won that season’s championship.

I love to think that the voters could, in 2022, deem- by consensus- that player on a 6th place team could/would by the most valuable player in the NBA.

[BoatsNZones]

Joker once again was +5 in a game they've lost by 20, with a 25/15/14 TD. It's so ridiculous how little help he gets from his teammates.

Worth noting again that 4 of the starters were +. Malone seems to have a vendetta against staggering minutes and Jokic spends essentially no time playing with the bench unit. And it’s a bench unit that could really, really use his help. I have no clue why he thinks this is the winning strat.

[Infinite Llamas]

The strategy that Malone deploys is stupid. It has to be on a team by team basis. The Lakers have no bench so it made sense to rest Jokic around the 2nd and 4th quarter starts. Utah has a good bench so you knew the second Jokic sat last night, the Jazz we’re gonna pull away.

He’s playing two less minutes than last year and I get that they want him fresh for the playoffs, but he ends up having to do so much heavy lifting that I’m not sure it’s even going to matter. They need to role the dice on Cousins at this point and cross their fingers. They need some move to bolster that bench because there is no punch on it aside from Hyland.

[WarriorGM]

The poll reset is just another gimmick used to argue what should be the plain as day truth that Curry should be the MVP.

"Curry is in a slump."

"Curry has been awful lately."

"So and so are ahead in all these advanced metrics."

But Curry still leads in raw plus-minus which should be recognized as the most basic most readily understandable and least adulterated measure of impact. If this is what a slumping Curry is then what was he when he wasn't slumping? You guys can create threads for how other players were robbed of awards but Curry is the player who would have the most legitimate gripe for multiple such awards being bizarrely given to someone else.

[HoopsterJones]

Jokic and Giannis are both putting up impressive numbers. Denver’s record may hurt Jokic a bit in terms of voting though. The Bucks are right there in the East for a top seed so maybe he’ll get some more consideration. Either way I feel that it’s not really a lock for either of them. I think Ja Morant will definitely get some consideration with the Grizzlies fighting for a top seed in the west.

[Doctor MJ]

The poll reset is just another gimmick used to argue what should be the plain as day truth that Curry should be the MVP.

"Curry is in a slump."

"Curry has been awful lately."

"So and so are ahead in all these advanced metrics."

But Curry still leads in raw plus-minus which should be recognized as the most basic most readily understandable and least adulterated measure of impact. If this is what a slumping Curry is then what was he when he wasn't slumping? You guys can create threads for how other players were robbed of awards but Curry is the player who would have the most legitimate gripe for multiple such awards being bizarrely given to someone else.

So, have a similar place for raw +/- in my MVP consideration, but wouldn't take it this far.

Last year Gobert was the one who would be MVP by this logic, and while I wouldn't call you crazy if you named him your MVP and I personally considered him quite seriously, I did end up siding with Jokic then, and frankly would probably side with Jokic again now.

Aside from all the general caveats about raw +/- being a very noisy measure of impact, I think the case becomes trickier when your team stops being the #1 seed. Well and good if you can say that your raw +/- lead means that you've led to more wins than everyone else, but that's not actually the case for Curry at this point. Gobert, despite playing in less games on a team that's won less games, has had a positive +/- more times than Curry.

Curry has his raw +/- then due to all the blowout wins he's had, which while they are impressive, they end up counting just the same as the close ones. And this leads me to a similar position with Curry to which I was last year:

When Curry and his team were grooving, I thought he was the most valuable player in the world...but they very clearly haven't done this all season in either season.

All this to say then that while I still consider Curry a very strong contender for my hypothetical MVP vote at the moment, the slump has certainly hurt his candidacy for me, and will keep hurting him if the Warriors keep falling back in the standings.

[Jurassic_Park]

This is one of the fun years. Its really wide open. Giannis jokic embiid curry can all win it.

Should be a great second half to the season.