Rookie impressions thread: PRESEASON/REGULAR SEASON

MountainDrew · Post #1221 » by **MountainDrew** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:44 pm

Brapman wrote:I'm not saying he has the highest upside in this draft because if MCW develops into a very good shooter (huge "if" there, as he's Jason Kidd first 3/4 of his career bad as a shooter)

False. MCW is shooting .324 from 3. It's not a great percentage, but for a guy that supposedly couldn't shoot, it's very good. His shooting form looks very good and there is no reason he can't ipmrove on it if he puts in the work.

He's actually been shooting a higher percentage from three than Oladipo (.276), KCP (.311) with Trey Burke and Ben McLemore only shooting a tiny bit better. MCW's jumpshot has not been an issue at all.

I still feel like the other rookies aren't even really in the discussion for ROY. MCW leads rookies in PPG, RPG, APG, 2nd among guards in BPG (Oladipo has 0.03 more blocks per game) and leading the league in steals. No other rookie has come close to him. Also, sixers with MCW are 6-9, 1-10 without him. Nobody is close at this point.

Brapman · Post #1222 » by **Brapman** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:01 pm

False. MCW is shooting what he's shooting, but he started off ridiculously hot and has been on a sharp downward trend ever since.

He's a very poor shooter at this stage of his career. Comparing him to other really bad shooters doesn't support any argument FOR his shooting -- that's a classic red herring/false equivalence argument.

I'm NOT saying he can't make major improvements in this area. But he'll have to to get to all-star or, eventually, elite PG level. Don't get me wrong: I'm an MCW guy. I wanted the Pistons to draft either KCP or MCW before the draft started (assuming Oladipo wasn't falling).

MountainDrew · Post #1223 » by **MountainDrew** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:50 pm

I wasn't around when Jason Kidd was in his prime even, so I kind of assumed he was a really, really bad shooter from what I'd heard of him. But even 30% can be enough to keep a defense honest.

It's also partially because of shot selection, he takes too many off the dribble threepointers. He needs to take that out of his game. But we can agree that he is a below average shooter at this point, but I don't think it's "a HUGE if" that he will improve on it given his form, work ethic and the fact that Brett Brown is a god when it comes to improving shooters.

There have been very few good shooters in this past draft overall though, only Tim Hardaway and Mathew Delavedova (he's only taken 24 so far) are shooting well from three, both above 42 percent. The next best is Vitor Faverani at 34 percent. That's terrible.

Diggr14 · Post #1224 » by **Diggr14** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:43 pm

SOUL wrote:No.

Stop comparing him to Durant. They have different skillsets. They're not the same players. Open floor he can run and finish like Durant, thats where the comparisons stop. Durant was shooting elite in college, 40 percent from the three point line - Giannis was 31 percent in his Greek League and shooting 29 percent so far in the NBA. I don't see him being a 40%+ 3 point shooter ever. Let alone a high volume one like Durant, who is also a GREAT free throw shooter that gets to the line a lot and makes a lot. I don't think he will be awful in either category as his grows, but not Durant level.

Similar body types doesn't mean they're similar players. If people find the Shawn Marion comparison bad, this is also bad.

He can affect the game more defensively than Durant at this stage and projects to continue doing that. But they do not have similar trajectories at all.

I sort of like a taller AK-47 comparison when he was a 5 category threat back in Utah. That's not a player to shake a stick at all, and was arguably one of the most valuable players for any team at the time. Giannis will probably look to score more though. Comparisons in general suck, but he's the only one I can think of that can impact a lot of areas really well.

Durant during his 19-20 y/o season with Seattle shot .288 from 3point land.

Giannis is already ahead of that at 18-19 y/o. The shooting argument that you gave is flawed. If you dont think that Giannis can develop into a 40% 3p shooter.. that's fine. But Durant for his career is .375 from 3 point land. I think Giannis will be there. Defensively he is going to be much better than Durant. Overall, he could become an even better player than Durant - saying he will be another Kirilenko is really taking a look at this kid and not really understanding the special nature of his game at basically 18 years old. His development is really just beginning - amd if you have been watching Bucks games (which logically most of you arent), it is impossible to come away from them and not say wow about the potential that this kid has. The funny thing is if he was playing for the University of Texas right now, people would be salivating over him to be a potential #1 pick in this draft, and comparing him to KD.

Goon · Post #1225 » by **Goon** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:21 pm

Woj reporting Giannis could be a starter sooner than later. Good to know that the Bucks are aware of what they have.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojyahoonba/status/413342060003860480[/tweet]

j-ragg · Post #1226 » by **j-ragg** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:33 pm

Goon wrote:Woj reporting Giannis could be a starter sooner than later. Good to know that the Bucks are aware of what they have.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojyahoonba/status/413342060003860480[/tweet]

Obviously they're showcasing him before the trade deadline.

j-ragg · Post #1227 » by **j-ragg** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:27 am

Trey Burke looks awesome against us tonight. As a Michigan fan I'm happy for him after that miserable summer league.

Post #1228 » by **SOUL** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:07 am

Burke is making Nelson his bitch tonight. Scored like almost all of his points against him.

Oladipo struggling with his shot / Hayward's length. Did fine defensively but his shot has been broken the past two games.

MalonesElbows · Post #1229 » by **MalonesElbows** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:48 am

This game moves Burke to #2 in ROY ranking. MCW will be ousted by default if he continues sitting out for their tanking purposes.

dautjazz · Post #1230 » by **dautjazz** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:17 am

MalonesElbows wrote:This game moves Burke to #2 in ROY ranking. MCW will be ousted by default if he continues sitting out for their tanking purposes.

Yes, but Giannis has potential, so who cares about a 30/7/8 outings, that doesn't show an ounce of potential.

KillMonger · Post #1231 » by **KillMonger** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:25 am

Burke played great tonight, he was in my top 3 going into the draft

H2tObes · Post #1232 » by **H2tObes** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:13 am

dautjazz wrote:
MalonesElbows wrote:This game moves Burke to #2 in ROY ranking. MCW will be ousted by default if he continues sitting out for their tanking purposes.

Yes, but Giannis has potential, so who cares about a 30/7/8 outings, that doesn't show an ounce of potential.

This actually made so little sense, that it hurt my brain

Baddy Chuck · Post #1233 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:25 am

dautjazz wrote:
MalonesElbows wrote:This game moves Burke to #2 in ROY ranking. MCW will be ousted by default if he continues sitting out for their tanking purposes.

Yes, but Giannis has potential, so who cares about a 30/7/8 outings, that doesn't show an ounce of potential.

As I said before, you can have your opinion and that's completely fine but someone saying Giannis would go before Burke in a redraft isn't really saying anything outlandish.

dautjazz · Post #1234 » by **dautjazz** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:44 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
dautjazz wrote:
MalonesElbows wrote:This game moves Burke to #2 in ROY ranking. MCW will be ousted by default if he continues sitting out for their tanking purposes.

Yes, but Giannis has potential, so who cares about a 30/7/8 outings, that doesn't show an ounce of potential.

As I said before, you can have your opinion and that's completely fine but someone saying Giannis would go before Burke in a redraft isn't really saying anything outlandish.

Hey, my face was blown off when Giannis had 10pts 7rbs 2asts 2stls 1blk in merely 42 minutes tonight. I get the hype.

Baddy Chuck · Post #1235 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:46 am

dautjazz wrote:Hey, my face was blown off when Giannis had 10pts 7rbs 2asts 2stls 1blk in merely 42 minutes tonight. I get the hype.

Basically tried to stay neutral, but yeah, you are one of the worst posters.

Trey Burke had 3 points in 30 minutes and you were silent. You constantly pimp your player despite glaring flaws in his game and refuse to look at anything besides basic stats to quantify others. Not only that but you quantify others when Trey Burke's stats when quantified really aren't that impressive.

Catchall · Post #1236 » by **Catchall** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:50 am

Burke has the ball in his hands a lot. He's going to get a lot of minutes and a lot of looks. That's why he was mentioned as a likely ROY candidate, not because he's the most dominant player in his draft. He's a decent, steady point guard who can use space and hit some shots. The most impressive thing about Burke is his assist-to-turnover ratio. He's 6:1 in his last 5 games.

Catchall · Post #1237 » by **Catchall** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:57 am

Giannis reminds me of Tayshaun Prince with a better handle and a better mid-range game.

dautjazz · Post #1238 » by **dautjazz** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:01 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
dautjazz wrote:Hey, my face was blown off when Giannis had 10pts 7rbs 2asts 2stls 1blk in merely 42 minutes tonight. I get the hype.

Basically tried to stay neutral, but yeah, you are one of the worst posters.

Trey Burke had 3 points in 30 minutes and you were silent. You constantly pimp your player despite glaring flaws in his game and refuse to look at anything besides basic stats to quantify others.

I know he had a bad game, but he's only had 2 games in single digits since he's started. What do you want me to use, TS%, PER, USAGE,WIN%? After tonight I'm sure he's up between 16-17 PER, don't know what his TS% is, it's probably pretty low, as far as WIN%, well he's more responsible for the last 6 wins than any other player on the team, as they are 6-8 with him as a starter, 1-13 before that. Usage? Well like some others have said, he's used a lot in Utah. Satisfied, or did I not use the metrics properly?

dabadguy · Post #1239 » by **dabadguy** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:03 am

Giannis is KD 7.0

Baddy Chuck · Post #1240 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:09 am

dautjazz wrote:I know he had a bad game, but he's only had 2 games in single digits since he's started. What do you want me to use, TS%, PER, USAGE,WIN%? After tonight I'm sure he's up between 16-17 PER, don't know what his TS% is, it's probably pretty low, as far as WIN%, well he's more responsible for the last 6 wins than any other player on the team, as they are 6-8 with him as a starter, 1-13 before that. Usage? Well like some others have said, he's used a lot in Utah. Satisfied, or did I not use the metrics properly?

Wasn't even bringing stats into play. You simply quantify Giannis as "x points, x assists, blah blah blah blah blah" despite the fact that he's shown extremely advanced skills that aren't quantified with a number directly. You constantly criticize his potential and the reasoning is always, again, "x points, x assists, x rebounds". You are completely blinded to what Giannis is doing because of what your favorite rookie is doing and refuse to think otherwise. For the third time, I understand why you are doing what your doing but if you can't see why someone would have a differing opinion you're bordering more on troll then homer. I'm not saying Giannis has shown anything completely groundbreaking to set him apart from the rest, but if you can't see why someone would take him over Burke you are just blinded in your homer glasses.