MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

[Baski]

And the media should be called out on it. Lebron winning it over Giannis this year is like Rose winning in 2011

Nah it would be like if Dirk won in 2011. The Rose equivalent would be Luka

I disagree. Rose won MVP in Iverson fashion--a team built on a stifling defense but he provided the scoring so he got the love by lazy media who had pre-determined they weren't going to give it to Lebron no matter what. The Mavs are winning based on an outrageous offensive led by Luka. Complete opposite of Rose winning.

Yeah his case is better than Rose's was. Not exactly equivalent like I said.
Either way I feel inclined to disagree with everything you say after the whole "wings are trash" fiasco

[Texas Chuck]

Either way I feel inclined to disagree with everything you say after the whole "wings are trash" fiasco

Not sure what you are referencing here? I sure hope I never said wings are trash. But yeah as a default disagreeing with me is probably a winning strategy. Definitely be right more often than not with that approach.

[Baski]

Clives just a bit grumpy curry got exposed without an all time goat cast. If harden didn’t make his team better they wouldn’t win so many games.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Steph has nothing to do with this MVP conversation not sure what the has to do with anything

Hahahha im joking with you man, relax. My point is even a great player like Curry hasn't reached a 20 PIE, so you're understating Kawhi's season or the PIE stat.

link to this PIE stat please, I don't even know what it is.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=PIE&dir=-1

Look who's on top of the stat

Giannis, luka, embiid, kawhi.

The roidhead Ayton was for a game but he had to take steroids to make the list.

[Ambrose]

You clearly aren't watching the games

The Raps have 15 wins. Nearly half of those wins (7) came from someone scoring more points than Siakim. IOW, his teammates accounted for half of the wins so far. Not sure how that classifies him to be MVP.

Siakam doesn't deserve any #1 votes yet, but he is pretty clearly at least a top 5 MVP candidate.

Siakam's averaging 25.6 PPG/8.4 REB/4.0 AST on 57 TS% with a +13.5 NetRTG (5th in the league). The games where teammates have outscored him - not like that matters anyway - are generally games where he is still the best player on Toronto because of everything he has been doing on the floor. He's had two bad games this year (@MIL and @DAL) and a really off offensive night (4/22 @ORL the other night), but he has been having a massive impact all year and has also put up 8 30+ point games already. Toronto is 15-4 largely because of their defence and Siakam.

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Even if we say he's top 5 (which I find highly debatable) he's still so far behind the top 4 it's irrelevant.

[clyde21]

Hahahha im joking with you man, relax. My point is even a great player like Curry hasn't reached a 20 PIE, so you're understating Kawhi's season or the PIE stat.

link to this PIE stat please, I don't even know what it is.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=PIE&dir=-1

Look who's on top of the stat

Giannis, luka, embiid, kawhi.

The roidhead Ayton was for a game but he had to take steroids to make the list.

ur legit the only person I've ever seen that uses this stat for anything

[Baski]

Either way I feel inclined to disagree with everything you say after the whole "wings are trash" fiasco

Not sure what you are referencing here? I sure hope I never said wings are trash. But yeah as a default disagreeing with me is probably a winning strategy. Definitely be right more often than not with that approach.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=76495857#p76495857

I've been there too. Sometimes I see my old posts and I'm amazed at how much I've forgotten I wrote.
Anyway welcome back to the light brother. We should disagree over some wings. They are the only way


Edit: My struggle with posting links continues. Bah I give up

Finally got it.

[Texas Chuck]

Either way I feel inclined to disagree with everything you say after the whole "wings are trash" fiasco

Not sure what you are referencing here? I sure hope I never said wings are trash. But yeah as a default disagreeing with me is probably a winning strategy. Definitely be right more often than not with that approach.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=76495857#p76495857

I've been there too. Sometimes I see my old posts and I'm amazed at how much I've forgotten I wrote.
Anyway welcome back to the light brother. We should disagree over some wings. They are the only way


Edit: My struggle with posting links continues. Bah I give up

Finally got it.

LOL. I was thinking basketball wings, not chicken wings. I definitely stand by chicken wings are trash though.

[Baski]

Not sure what you are referencing here? I sure hope I never said wings are trash. But yeah as a default disagreeing with me is probably a winning strategy. Definitely be right more often than not with that approach.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=76495857#p76495857

I've been there too. Sometimes I see my old posts and I'm amazed at how much I've forgotten I wrote.
Anyway welcome back to the light brother. We should disagree over some wings. They are the only way


Edit: My struggle with posting links continues. Bah I give up

Finally got it.

LOL. I was thinking basketball wings, not chicken wings. I definitely stand by chicken wings are trash though.

Gasp! There it is again.

[Colbinii]

Not sure what you are referencing here? I sure hope I never said wings are trash. But yeah as a default disagreeing with me is probably a winning strategy. Definitely be right more often than not with that approach.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=76495857#p76495857

I've been there too. Sometimes I see my old posts and I'm amazed at how much I've forgotten I wrote.
Anyway welcome back to the light brother. We should disagree over some wings. They are the only way


Edit: My struggle with posting links continues. Bah I give up

Finally got it.

LOL. I was thinking basketball wings, not chicken wings. I definitely stand by chicken wings are trash though.

Sounds like you have never had good wings then.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[Texas Chuck]

Sounds like you have never had good wings then.

what is this mythical beast you mention?

[Colbinii]

Sounds like you have never had good wings then.

what is this mythical beast you mention?

Must be a northern thing

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[Magic Giannison]

so far my top 5 are like this.

Giannis
Harden

Luka/Lebron (interchangeable)
AD

I think many are sleeping the fantastic AD defense and how much he helps the Lakers many times even more than lebron.

I dont think Luka should be touching Giannis and Harden as one is the craziest offensive machine since Jordan and other at the moment is probably the best two way player in the league but he will be in the conversation for yeas to come.

Many Euros called his greatness now all its left for him is to improve defensively and its done.

[djsunyc]

so far my top 5 are like this.

Giannis
Harden

Luka/Lebron (interchangeable)
AD

I think many are sleeping the fantastic AD defense and how much he helps the Lakers many times even more than lebron.

I dont think Luka should be touching Giannis and Harden as one is the craziest offensive machine since Jordan and other at the moment is probably the best two way player in the league but he will be in the conversation for yeas to come.

Many Euros called his greatness now all its left for him is to improve defensively and its done.

i'm not a big believer of an MVP being on a team with another super high level caliber all star.

[Yuri36]

so far my top 5 are like this.

Giannis
Harden

Luka/Lebron (interchangeable)
AD

I think many are sleeping the fantastic AD defense and how much he helps the Lakers many times even more than lebron.

I dont think Luka should be touching Giannis and Harden as one is the craziest offensive machine since Jordan and other at the moment is probably the best two way player in the league but he will be in the conversation for yeas to come.

Many Euros called his greatness now all its left for him is to improve defensively and its done.

You know offense is not only about ppg but also about efficiency and passing, right?

[Magic Giannison]

so far my top 5 are like this.

Giannis
Harden

Luka/Lebron (interchangeable)
AD

I think many are sleeping the fantastic AD defense and how much he helps the Lakers many times even more than lebron.

I dont think Luka should be touching Giannis and Harden as one is the craziest offensive machine since Jordan and other at the moment is probably the best two way player in the league but he will be in the conversation for yeas to come.

Many Euros called his greatness now all its left for him is to improve defensively and its done.

i'm not a big believer of an MVP being on a team with another super high level caliber all star.

i don't disagree which is why Lebron or AD wont win or shouldn't win MVP imo but their performance should be around there. Lebron also gets the narrative boost due to his age i guess which again it shouldn't but hey

[GeorgeMarcus]

If raw net was stable or adjusted for lineups, I might care, but it doesn't. stable plus minus has Giannis and Gobert light years ahead and AD with comparable impact. But even if that wasn't true, embid is playing role player minuites like kawhi. He has zero case for dpoy and consequently zero case for mvp.

You'll realize the truth when DRAPM comes out. What 'stable plus minus' are you referring to?

DRAPM is not stable over a single year sample, PIPM, backpicks BPM, luck adjusted rapm, and rpm, apm are all stable by comparison.

30+ mpg isn't "role player minutes" but whatever... IIRC he led the league in mpg among C's last year, and his defensive impact was exactly the same.

It's barely more than kawhi's minuites and barely less than brook lopez. And his effiency still doesn't come close to giannis or gobert. He's not playing remotely similar quality defense so far. Maybe he turns it up in the playoffs, but you can't use that to argue 4 mvp.

A year's worth of RAPM is in fact stable. The only reason people think it isn't is because player roles change year to year, and so does their impact by extension.

There's also the fact that Embiid has been doing this since he entered the league. You are wildly off base if you believe he's "not playing remotely similar quality defense". I mean that's a seriously absurd claim.

[RB34]

Lakers lose one game to mavs and Luka propped up as MVP ... Hes having good start but hold on guys.

It’s not just one game, Luka has been incredible the entire season. Saying that I still think Giannis has a stranglehold on it at the moment.

[clyde21]

1. Giannis
2. Luka
3. Towns
4. Siakam

[djsunyc]

PIE? the only guy i can see dominate in that stat is jokic