76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Lou_23]

Morey looking like a genius today.

Who needs Simmons when you are losing at home to the Heat without Jimmy Butler, Bam, Herro, and Markieff?

4D chess everyone.

Yes, because he will be a genius if he trades Simmons for Hield and Bagley or role players like that

[Nuntius]

Or they can trade Embiid next year or the year after and go through the process yet again. He’s a top 10 guy in the league, but he’s not a once-in-a-generation guy like Steph or KD or Lebron, so what if you waste his prime?

Great question. I'd love it if Morey was to ask that question to Embiid. To be a fly on that wall..

Giving in to Simmons might be a line that Philly refuses to cross, and one that GMs are prepared to lose everything to defend, because this would effectively render contracts null for the team signing them; sorta like the opposite of how the NFL allows teams to release pretty much anyone at any point. The way I see it
- Simmons stands to lose more than the sixers do by not playing. Yes, they might miss out on what is probably just a mid tier all star at this point, but if Ben sits 2 seasons, he’ll never get those years back.
- the sixers will be okay if they waste Embiid’s prime- they will still have a team, will probably be a contender in the next decade, will still sell tons of tickets, etc.
- they’ve already messed up The Process and essentially ended up with one single player (a borderline MVP talent, no doubt). No Simmons, no fultz, no MCW, no any of those process era guys that ended up being good elsewhere. For them to win a championship, they’d have to flip nearly their entire team as is, so it’s not much of an extra step to send Embiid away too. Will this team realistically be a contender before he’s past his prime? I sincerely doubt it.
- worst consequence is they fire Morey, who would immediately get hired by someone else based on his resume and also reputation for not caving to players.

FTR I think it would be tragic for Philly to ruin Embiid and I guess Simmons’ primes because of this sort of thing, but I do wonder if there is anything more important to Philly than showing Simmons, and the league, who’s boss.

Morey isn't defending anything other than his ego here. He isn't some kind of heroic character. He's just your run-of-the-mill narcissistic millionaire.

[God Squad]

Waiting like..

[dhsilv2]

Per Michael Scotto the Pelicans tried to acquire Ben Simmons without including Brandon Ingram. Lol uhhhh

This shows all the stubborn Sixers fans just what kind of value Simmons has around the league

A garbage dump of a team like the Pelicans doesnt want to give up a top talent for Simmons but other teams will give up a superstar?

Sixers would be lucky to get a deal like Brogdon + Sabonis/Turner

Does ingram want out? The whole wait is for another star to want out. If you've missed that point I'm not sure I or anyone can help you.

[dhsilv2]

People who get married without guns to their heads get divorced all the time, and there are definitely severe incompatibility issues between the two parties. Simmons very definitely hasn’t put in the work to keep the marriage going by at least trying to improve his shot.

To me Simmons is maximised as he stands by a different playing style/game plan than maximises Embiid, and they were never compatible as far as being a title winning combination deep in the play-offs. In terms of other teams for whom he would have high value he needs to be surrounded by shooters, and the question is how much value he would have for an already good team, and other teams would be taking a punt given a team would probably have to be built around him. He looks like he would be a good fit for GSW, but I suspect Curry wants to go forward with the core players he started with, and Green has proven heart in deep play-off runs which Simmons does not.

There’s a world of difference between the expectations placed on Simmons & Green

If Green records 9/9/9 with elite defence then he’s done his job in a series whereas it’s a massive failure for Simmons

Just yesterday I saw Draymond pass up 3 open layups/dunks in favour of kicking the ball out to shooters who missed 2/3

That would be global headlines if Simmons did it

I agree with you, I think Simmons would at least bring more scoring than Green does, but GSW are happy with what Green provides which is perhaps your point; he was even more valuable when he was more of a scoring including shooting threat, despite being at best only ever an average shooter. This is the frustration with Simmons, even mediocre shooting would transform his value. 2 non shooting starters would be problematic though as it is with Looney and Green. Green is the heart and soul of GSW, and it would be hard for Simmons to marshall GSW better than Green does although he looks to have the capabilities and is obviously the better athlete, and he also hasn’t really ever shown the leadership Green has displayed over a number of years.

To say Green is a better shooter than Simmons grossly under values the gap between them as shooters. Ben cannot shoot at all. He's a BEST CASE 15% 3 point shooter from the little we've seen.

[dhsilv2]

Just trade him already. Simmons isn't the first player who has wanted out and he won't he the last.

How many games do the Sixers want to lose because they have a max player sitting on the sidelines?

I'm actually surprised sixers fans aren't more vocal about potentially wasting another year of prime Embiid.

STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yesterday was the first day there was even a snowballs chance in hell to trade the man, and you're acting like this has been going on for a long time. They won't have him on their 2023 roster. Just freaking wait. This isn't some fast process.

[dhsilv2]

Just trade him already. Simmons isn't the first player who has wanted out and he won't he the last.

How many games do the Sixers want to lose because they have a max player sitting on the sidelines?

I'm actually surprised sixers fans aren't more vocal about potentially wasting another year of prime Embiid.

If players can dictate the terms of their own trade whenever they want, without negotiating it in their contract, what is the point of guaranteed contracts from an ownership perspective?
If the player's union wants to negotiate for only 1 year contracts they should, but I'm guessing a lot of their membership won't be happy about that.
This is plainly a case of not operating in good faith by a player imo.
I dont see what dumping him for like Brogdon and a 1st, for example, really does for Philly's ownership either in terms of maximizing Embiid's prime or in terms of the bigger picture of wanting players to reasonably honor their contract.

I agree that players shouldn't have this much power but sadly they do until something gets put in the CBA to stop this. It's great that Morey thinks he can be the first to lead change but it might be at the expense of his own teams well being.

Hes under the delusion that Lillard/Harden/Beal will become available and won't make a trade until someone of that calibre does. This isn't something that is in his control and yet he thinks it is.

He should have went harder after Harden if he was so infatuated. The more realistic scenarios are the CJ McCollum's of the world with other stuff included.

I only give a crap because I'm an Embiid fan but as a fan of the Raptors, I hope the Sixers keep fighting this pointless battle for 4 years while they suffer.

All indications are that Harden was NEVER going to be traded to philly....

And there's no delusion about expecting a star player will be available this or next year. That happens all he time and anyone looking at this logically would be waiting for that. It might not happen. That's COMPLETELY OK here. If philly can't find a deal for ben, so what? CJ for Ben would be the worst trade in NBA history. They're better off just letting ben sit than making a trade that one sided.

This isn't that complex. Philly isn't going to throw away Embiid's prime on a horrible trade They'll either get Ben back, get a legit star, or in 2 years blow it all up an trade Embiid. And maybe then they'll take a trash deal for Ben, but they should trade Embiid before they even consider CJ for Ben.

[dhsilv2]

The Sixers cannot wait two years before trading Simmons. And the reason why is in one of your previous posts:



Joel Embiid is 27 years old, going into 28 in less than 100 days. He is a bulky big who has struggled with foot issues in the past. His prime is right now and in the next couple of years. He won't be in his prime anymore when he's 31. Therefore, the Sixers need to get him help now. Refusing to trade Simmons until something happens and another star asks out is not something that they have the time to do. They cannot wait for that miracle.

But there hasn't been a serious offer. What in the hell are they supposed to do? They can't trade Simmons for crap and that's been the offers so far. This team is title or bust. Making the finals doesn't matter to this organization. They'd be better off completely blowing it all up and trading Embiid than taking the deals being offered so far. They absolutely have to wait this out and if it takes 2 years it takes 2 years.

And there won't be any serious offer unless Morey lowers his asking price. You cannot ask for 6+ picks and a good player for Ben Simmons and expect other GMs to take you seriously. It takes two GMs to make a deal and for that to happen you need to be operating in good faith. Morey is taking a place out of Ainge's playbook and asking for the moon. It won't work like that.

Morey wants an allstar, he doesn't want a good player. Nobody has offered him an allstar level guy so he's asked to be compensated for that. This is trading 101. If you don't get what you need you'd ask for extras to assure you make up the gap, and in this case you'd need 400x value in terms of a picks to take a lesser player. Other GM's know this. They've been trying to low ball the 76ers like they should do because that's how most star deals happen. But unlike any trade in NBA history, this is a young star under a LONG term deal. So ben is literally the most valuable player in nba history who's up for trade like this.

[rtiff68]

But there hasn't been a serious offer. What in the hell are they supposed to do? They can't trade Simmons for crap and that's been the offers so far. This team is title or bust. Making the finals doesn't matter to this organization. They'd be better off completely blowing it all up and trading Embiid than taking the deals being offered so far. They absolutely have to wait this out and if it takes 2 years it takes 2 years.

And there won't be any serious offer unless Morey lowers his asking price. You cannot ask for 6+ picks and a good player for Ben Simmons and expect other GMs to take you seriously. It takes two GMs to make a deal and for that to happen you need to be operating in good faith. Morey is taking a place out of Ainge's playbook and asking for the moon. It won't work like that.

Morey wants an allstar, he doesn't want a good player. Nobody has offered him an allstar level guy so he's asked to be compensated for that. This is trading 101. If you don't get what you need you'd ask for extras to assure you make up the gap, and in this case you'd need 400x value in terms of a picks to take a lesser player. Other GM's know this. They've been trying to low ball the 76ers like they should do because that's how most star deals happen. But unlike any trade in NBA history, this is a young star under a LONG term deal. So ben is literally the most valuable player in nba history who's up for trade like this.

I get where you are coming from, but the following has to be heavily factored in as well: the serious questions about Ben between the ears, and how that impacts his value.

It's one thing to trade for a guy coming back from a physical injury, a guy with flaws in his game, or a guy who mentally loses it in a high leverage moment...

...but Ben not only checks the latter two boxes, he also completely checked out after said mental breakdown and fairly moderate public criticism. Like, won't even show up and go through the motions.

If I'm considering trading for him, what's to stop him from doing this again next year, at which point he'll be even less valuable? If I can't count on him to show up at all-- even with millions of dollars on the line-- can I really count on him to play with max effort? At this point, the only thing you can really count on when it comes to Ben is that if/when he does decide to play for the Sixers or wherever he's traded to, he still won't be willing or able to shoot the basketball.

[dhsilv2]

And there won't be any serious offer unless Morey lowers his asking price. You cannot ask for 6+ picks and a good player for Ben Simmons and expect other GMs to take you seriously. It takes two GMs to make a deal and for that to happen you need to be operating in good faith. Morey is taking a place out of Ainge's playbook and asking for the moon. It won't work like that.

Morey wants an allstar, he doesn't want a good player. Nobody has offered him an allstar level guy so he's asked to be compensated for that. This is trading 101. If you don't get what you need you'd ask for extras to assure you make up the gap, and in this case you'd need 400x value in terms of a picks to take a lesser player. Other GM's know this. They've been trying to low ball the 76ers like they should do because that's how most star deals happen. But unlike any trade in NBA history, this is a young star under a LONG term deal. So ben is literally the most valuable player in nba history who's up for trade like this.

I get where you are coming from, but the following has to be heavily factored in as well: the serious questions about Ben between the ears, and how that impacts his value.

It's one thing to trade for a guy coming back from a physical injury, a guy with flaws in his game, or a guy who mentally loses it in a high leverage moment...

...but Ben not only checks the latter two boxes, he also completely checked out after said mental breakdown and fairly moderate public criticism. Like, won't even show up and go through the motions.

If I'm considering trading for him, what's to stop him from doing this again next year, at which point he'll be even less valuable? If I can't count on him to show up at all-- even with millions of dollars on the line-- can I really count on him to play with max effort? At this point, the only thing you can really count on when it comes to Ben is that if/when he does decide to play for the Sixers or wherever he's traded to, he still won't be willing or able to shoot the basketball.

I mean if ben starts shooting he'll have zero value..the man can't shoot even a little. He should NEVERRRRRRR attempt a jumper in a game. But anyway....sure there's risk with him. But there's risk with ANY player demanding a trade. As I said this is a completely unique situation. The way the NBA generally works is that the players you want aren't up for trade. That's really philly's problem here, of the 30 or so guys they'd want about 25 of them are hardcore not getting traded. That's why this is going to take time and I don't expect a deal to happen this year.

[Tomjas]

There’s a world of difference between the expectations placed on Simmons & Green

If Green records 9/9/9 with elite defence then he’s done his job in a series whereas it’s a massive failure for Simmons

Just yesterday I saw Draymond pass up 3 open layups/dunks in favour of kicking the ball out to shooters who missed 2/3

That would be global headlines if Simmons did it

I agree with you, I think Simmons would at least bring more scoring than Green does, but GSW are happy with what Green provides which is perhaps your point; he was even more valuable when he was more of a scoring including shooting threat, despite being at best only ever an average shooter. This is the frustration with Simmons, even mediocre shooting would transform his value. 2 non shooting starters would be problematic though as it is with Looney and Green. Green is the heart and soul of GSW, and it would be hard for Simmons to marshall GSW better than Green does although he looks to have the capabilities and is obviously the better athlete, and he also hasn’t really ever shown the leadership Green has displayed over a number of years.

To say Green is a better shooter than Simmons grossly under values the gap between them as shooters. Ben cannot shoot at all. He's a BEST CASE 15% 3 point shooter from the little we've seen.

Green averaged 7ppg last year and averages 8.3 ppg for his career

Simmons is LIGHT YEARS above Draymond in every aspect of basketball

This is getting ridiculous

[dhsilv2]

I agree with you, I think Simmons would at least bring more scoring than Green does, but GSW are happy with what Green provides which is perhaps your point; he was even more valuable when he was more of a scoring including shooting threat, despite being at best only ever an average shooter. This is the frustration with Simmons, even mediocre shooting would transform his value. 2 non shooting starters would be problematic though as it is with Looney and Green. Green is the heart and soul of GSW, and it would be hard for Simmons to marshall GSW better than Green does although he looks to have the capabilities and is obviously the better athlete, and he also hasn’t really ever shown the leadership Green has displayed over a number of years.

To say Green is a better shooter than Simmons grossly under values the gap between them as shooters. Ben cannot shoot at all. He's a BEST CASE 15% 3 point shooter from the little we've seen.

Green averaged 7ppg last year and averages 8.3 ppg for his career

Simmons is LIGHT YEARS above Draymond in every aspect of basketball

This is getting ridiculous

Green's a better defender by a LOT. I love ben's game as much as anyone here, but he's not better than green. Ben's a better offensive player despite his complete zero shooting ability, but green is way better defensively.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Per Michael Scotto the Pelicans tried to acquire Ben Simmons without including Brandon Ingram. Lol uhhhh

the Sixers didn't want Zion?

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[rtiff68]

I agree with you, I think Simmons would at least bring more scoring than Green does, but GSW are happy with what Green provides which is perhaps your point; he was even more valuable when he was more of a scoring including shooting threat, despite being at best only ever an average shooter. This is the frustration with Simmons, even mediocre shooting would transform his value. 2 non shooting starters would be problematic though as it is with Looney and Green. Green is the heart and soul of GSW, and it would be hard for Simmons to marshall GSW better than Green does although he looks to have the capabilities and is obviously the better athlete, and he also hasn’t really ever shown the leadership Green has displayed over a number of years.

To say Green is a better shooter than Simmons grossly under values the gap between them as shooters. Ben cannot shoot at all. He's a BEST CASE 15% 3 point shooter from the little we've seen.

Green averaged 7ppg last year and averages 8.3 ppg for his career

Simmons is LIGHT YEARS above Draymond in every aspect of basketball

This is getting ridiculous

Indeed, this is getting ridiculous. You just said that Ben Simmons is "LIGHT YEARS above" Draymond Green as a defender and a passer.

You even put it in caps.

Dude...

[NZB2323]

But there hasn't been a serious offer. What in the hell are they supposed to do? They can't trade Simmons for crap and that's been the offers so far. This team is title or bust. Making the finals doesn't matter to this organization. They'd be better off completely blowing it all up and trading Embiid than taking the deals being offered so far. They absolutely have to wait this out and if it takes 2 years it takes 2 years.

And there won't be any serious offer unless Morey lowers his asking price. You cannot ask for 6+ picks and a good player for Ben Simmons and expect other GMs to take you seriously. It takes two GMs to make a deal and for that to happen you need to be operating in good faith. Morey is taking a place out of Ainge's playbook and asking for the moon. It won't work like that.

Morey wants an allstar, he doesn't want a good player. Nobody has offered him an allstar level guy so he's asked to be compensated for that. This is trading 101. If you don't get what you need you'd ask for extras to assure you make up the gap, and in this case you'd need 400x value in terms of a picks to take a lesser player. Other GM's know this. They've been trying to low ball the 76ers like they should do because that's how most star deals happen. But unlike any trade in NBA history, this is a young star under a LONG term deal. So ben is literally the most valuable player in nba history who's up for trade like this.

A player who is afraid to shoot free throws and refuses to play because of criticism/boos is not the most valuable player who is up for a trade.

That’s why Morey isn’t finding a deal. No one wants to trade a top 30 player for Simmons. No GM, no fan, no coach, ect. I’m a Bulls fan and I have absolutely 0 interest in trading for Ben Simmons. We already have the GOAT in Alex Caruso.

That’s why Kyrie Irving for Ben Simmons makes the most sense.

[NZB2323]

I agree with you, I think Simmons would at least bring more scoring than Green does, but GSW are happy with what Green provides which is perhaps your point; he was even more valuable when he was more of a scoring including shooting threat, despite being at best only ever an average shooter. This is the frustration with Simmons, even mediocre shooting would transform his value. 2 non shooting starters would be problematic though as it is with Looney and Green. Green is the heart and soul of GSW, and it would be hard for Simmons to marshall GSW better than Green does although he looks to have the capabilities and is obviously the better athlete, and he also hasn’t really ever shown the leadership Green has displayed over a number of years.

To say Green is a better shooter than Simmons grossly under values the gap between them as shooters. Ben cannot shoot at all. He's a BEST CASE 15% 3 point shooter from the little we've seen.

Green averaged 7ppg last year and averages 8.3 ppg for his career

Simmons is LIGHT YEARS above Draymond in every aspect of basketball

This is getting ridiculous

Green doesn’t pass up open dunks in the playoffs because he’s afraid of getting fouled. Green doesn’t refuse to play because he got criticized. Green has won DPOTY. Green has won 73 games. Green has won 3 championships.

What has Simmons ever achieved other than stats in the regular season and making it to the 2nd round?

[Tomjas]

To say Green is a better shooter than Simmons grossly under values the gap between them as shooters. Ben cannot shoot at all. He's a BEST CASE 15% 3 point shooter from the little we've seen.

Green averaged 7ppg last year and averages 8.3 ppg for his career

Simmons is LIGHT YEARS above Draymond in every aspect of basketball

This is getting ridiculous

Green doesn’t pass up open dunks in the playoffs because he’s afraid of getting fouled. Green doesn’t refuse to play because he got criticized. Green has won DPOTY. Green has won 73 games. Green has won 3 championships.

What has Simmons ever achieved other than stats in the regular season and making it to the 2nd round?

Simmons is significantly better than Draymond

Hard to believe that this even a thing

The only reason why Draymond has sniffed the playoffs is because he plays with Steph, Klay and KD

8ppg!!!!

Simmons has been mvp in 2 playoff series

He’s levels above Draymond and I really like Green

[dhsilv2]

And there won't be any serious offer unless Morey lowers his asking price. You cannot ask for 6+ picks and a good player for Ben Simmons and expect other GMs to take you seriously. It takes two GMs to make a deal and for that to happen you need to be operating in good faith. Morey is taking a place out of Ainge's playbook and asking for the moon. It won't work like that.

Morey wants an allstar, he doesn't want a good player. Nobody has offered him an allstar level guy so he's asked to be compensated for that. This is trading 101. If you don't get what you need you'd ask for extras to assure you make up the gap, and in this case you'd need 400x value in terms of a picks to take a lesser player. Other GM's know this. They've been trying to low ball the 76ers like they should do because that's how most star deals happen. But unlike any trade in NBA history, this is a young star under a LONG term deal. So ben is literally the most valuable player in nba history who's up for trade like this.

A player who is afraid to shoot free throws and refuses to play because of criticism/boos is not the most valuable player who is up for a trade.

That’s why Morey isn’t finding a deal. No one wants to trade a top 30 player for Simmons. No GM, no fan, no coach, ect. I’m a Bulls fan and I have absolutely 0 interest in trading for Ben Simmons. We already have the GOAT in Alex Caruso.

That’s why Kyrie Irving for Ben Simmons makes the most sense.

There's currently no player available worth trading for Ben. So there won't be a trade made. That seems pretty simple to me. I don't understand why others can't get this. You're right no team is going to trade a HAPPY star for Ben. And philly doesn't expect that. But a star is going to demand a trade and then that happens, Ben suddenly looks really good. Give it a year man.

[Larry_Russell]

At this point I cannot see anyone offering anything of substance for Simmons.

[dhsilv2]

Green averaged 7ppg last year and averages 8.3 ppg for his career

Simmons is LIGHT YEARS above Draymond in every aspect of basketball

This is getting ridiculous

Green doesn’t pass up open dunks in the playoffs because he’s afraid of getting fouled. Green doesn’t refuse to play because he got criticized. Green has won DPOTY. Green has won 73 games. Green has won 3 championships.

What has Simmons ever achieved other than stats in the regular season and making it to the 2nd round?

Simmons is significantly better than Draymond

Hard to believe that this even a thing

The only reason why Draymond has sniffed the playoffs is because he plays with Steph, Klay and KD

8ppg!!!!

Simmons has been mvp in 2 playoff series

He’s levels above Draymond and I really like Green

Drays has now never made the playoffs without KD???