2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II

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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1241 » by ThePersianFreak » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:48 pm

James Rustles wrote:Aren't Miami just like 9-6 without Wade or something like that? And 2-0 without LeBron with the wins being vs Portland while they were hot and vs the Bulls who have been hot recently?

That alone hurts LeBrons MVP chances quite a bit considering what Durant has done without Westbrook having an alltime great month of basketball and leading his team to first seed in the tough West.



And having a worse record with Westbrook means what? that Durant can't play as good when he's playing with a good player? does that mean that he's not as valuable when he plays with Westbrook?
LeBron has had much more problem with the Heat roster than KD has had with OKS's this season. this Wade plyaing 4 games then skip 2 games has hurt LeBron and the Heat.


aol4532 wrote:Even though the East have more .500 teams now, I've realized that they're only taking it from the bottom feeders. Percentage wise against the West, they're probably still the same. That means that Lebron will need to finish 4 games ahead of Durant to win it. Good luck with that.



LOL! good thing is you're not the one who chooses the MVP.and dont forget the Heat have **** all over the West this season. beating 5 of thier top 8 teams on their home floor in a 6 games road trip. if Mia finish with a better record than OKC, LeBron will get it, deal with it.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1242 » by MisterWestside » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:49 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:We'll have to see what happens. If OKC goes into a serious tailspin that'll be one thing, but I think the precise way this dip is happening in OKC (Westbrook's back and they were getting him up to speed) will likely give Durant a pass. Bottom line for the season is that Durant carried OKC to a better record than Miami with far less star power behind him before and that it's basically acknowledged that LeBron is conserving energy. Short of something drastic happening, the MVP is now earmarked for Durant this type.


That may be a reasonable viewpoint to assert, Doctor MJ, but do the people who actually have an MVP vote also see it that way?
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1243 » by MisterHibachi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:04 pm

I don't think voters pay much attention to 'weaker conference'. The East has been the weaker conference for pretty much all of LeBron's career and that hasn't stopped him from collecting 4 of these things.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1244 » by aol4532 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:08 pm

LeBron-FTW wrote:
James Rustles wrote:Aren't Miami just like 9-6 without Wade or something like that? And 2-0 without LeBron with the wins being vs Portland while they were hot and vs the Bulls who have been hot recently?

That alone hurts LeBrons MVP chances quite a bit considering what Durant has done without Westbrook having an alltime great month of basketball and leading his team to first seed in the tough West.



And having a worse record with Westbrook means what? that Durant can't play as good when he's playing with a good player? does that mean that he's not as valuable when he plays with Westbrook?
LeBron has had much more problem with the Heat roster than KD has had with OKS's this season. this Wade plyaing 4 games then skip 2 games has hurt LeBron and the Heat.


aol4532 wrote:Even though the East have more .500 teams now, I've realized that they're only taking it from the bottom feeders. Percentage wise against the West, they're probably still the same. That means that Lebron will need to finish 4 games ahead of Durant to win it. Good luck with that.



LOL! good thing is you're not the one who chooses the MVP.and dont forget the Heat have **** all over the West this season. beating 5 of thier top 8 teams on their home floor in a 6 games road trip. if Mia finish with a better record than OKC, LeBron will get it, deal with it.


What's the Heat's record against the West vs East this season? Also, just because you have a better record playing them half the time doesn't mean it will hold true full time.
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2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1245 » by Anttb » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:06 pm

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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1246 » by Joao Saraiva » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:48 pm

James Rustles wrote:Aren't Miami just like 9-6 without Wade or something like that? And 2-0 without LeBron with the wins being vs Portland while they were hot and vs the Bulls who have been hot recently?

That alone hurts LeBrons MVP chances quite a bit considering what Durant has done without Westbrook having an alltime great month of basketball and leading his team to first seed in the tough West.


So... 2 game sample? That's a good one. What else do you got to make LeBron look bad? You can choose the gamev vs Utah to say he's also not beasting lately. Need some help with more of this stuff?
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1247 » by ThePersianFreak » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:21 am

aol4532 wrote:
LeBron-FTW wrote:
James Rustles wrote:Aren't Miami just like 9-6 without Wade or something like that? And 2-0 without LeBron with the wins being vs Portland while they were hot and vs the Bulls who have been hot recently?

That alone hurts LeBrons MVP chances quite a bit considering what Durant has done without Westbrook having an alltime great month of basketball and leading his team to first seed in the tough West.



And having a worse record with Westbrook means what? that Durant can't play as good when he's playing with a good player? does that mean that he's not as valuable when he plays with Westbrook?
LeBron has had much more problem with the Heat roster than KD has had with OKS's this season. this Wade plyaing 4 games then skip 2 games has hurt LeBron and the Heat.


aol4532 wrote:Even though the East have more .500 teams now, I've realized that they're only taking it from the bottom feeders. Percentage wise against the West, they're probably still the same. That means that Lebron will need to finish 4 games ahead of Durant to win it. Good luck with that.



LOL! good thing is you're not the one who chooses the MVP.and dont forget the Heat have **** all over the West this season. beating 5 of thier top 8 teams on their home floor in a 6 games road trip. if Mia finish with a better record than OKC, LeBron will get it, deal with it.


What's the Heat's record against the West vs East this season? Also, just because you have a better record playing them half the time doesn't mean it will hold true full time.



17-4, they lost to GSW and Thunder at home, to Jazz and Sac on the road.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1248 » by Gwynplaine » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:57 am

James Rustles wrote:Aren't Miami just like 9-6 without Wade or something like that? And 2-0 without LeBron with the wins being vs Portland while they were hot and vs the Bulls who have been hot recently?

That alone hurts LeBrons MVP chances quite a bit considering what Durant has done without Westbrook having an alltime great month of basketball and leading his team to first seed in the tough West.


:nonono:
I don't know how many times I have to point this out. This is just downright stupid. A 2 game sample? Really? OKC is 1-0 without Westbrook and Durant.
STACKED!!! That alone voids the entire OKC team from any kind of individual consideration. pffftt
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1249 » by RSCD3_ » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:00 am

Gwynplaine wrote:
James Rustles wrote:Aren't Miami just like 9-6 without Wade or something like that? And 2-0 without LeBron with the wins being vs Portland while they were hot and vs the Bulls who have been hot recently?

That alone hurts LeBrons MVP chances quite a bit considering what Durant has done without Westbrook having an alltime great month of basketball and leading his team to first seed in the tough West.


:nonono:
I don't know how many times I have to point this out. This is just downright stupid. A 2 game sample? Really? OKC is 1-0 without Westbrook and Durant.
STACKED!!! That alone voids the entire OKC team from any kind of individual consideration. pffftt


Say Gwynplaine what did you think about lebrons performance, I thought it was pretty good,

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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1250 » by MisterHibachi » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:00 am

Miami now with the second best record in the league, ahead of OKC.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1251 » by Jon Connor » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:06 am

Anttb wrote:Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This guy is making better points than JimmiesRustled :lol:
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1252 » by Gwynplaine » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:13 am

RSCD3_ wrote:
Gwynplaine wrote:
:nonono:
I don't know how many times I have to point this out. This is just downright stupid. A 2 game sample? Really? OKC is 1-0 without Westbrook and Durant.
STACKED!!! That alone voids the entire OKC team from any kind of individual consideration. pffftt


Say Gwynplaine what did you think about lebrons performance, I thought it was pretty good,

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:D

Effortless.. Even with the injury mask hampering his vision.
If not for LeBron having all those mini injuries earlier this year, there would've been a clear MVP now. LeBane.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1253 » by Joao Saraiva » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:15 am

31 points on 66% shooting for LeBron tonight going for historic ts%. What has LeBron got to do to be ahead of KD in the MVP race?
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1254 » by Hero » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:17 am

Heat 9-1 in their last 10, OKC 5-5 in theirs.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1255 » by Jon Connor » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:20 am

Hero wrote:Heat 9-1 in their last 10, OKC 5-5 in theirs.


Its not how you start its how you finish (thats what she said) had to get it outta the way
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1256 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:56 am

IG2 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:Bottom line for the season is that Durant carried OKC to a better record than Miami with far less star power behind him


I don't know about "far less" star power. Wade has only played 10 more games than Westbrook this season. And I'd say his play-3-games-then-sit-out-2 routine was a much bigger drawback for Miami than Westbrook missing all of his games in one string. At least OKC was able to establish a rhythm/identity without him. Miami on the other hand never could. Anyway, with both Wade and Westbrook out, I'd say the rest of the rosters of both teams, especially when you factor in OKC's far superior defense and rebounding this season, is pretty much a toss up, with the edge maybe even on OKC's side.

Both Miami and OKC have the same win % now. I can't see Durant winning MVP if his team doesn't finish with a better record. The weaker supporting cast argument just doesn't fly, IMO. This isn't Kobe vs. LeBron of the late 00's. OKC's still a loaded team. The narrative in the media over the last few weeks had already shifted to LeBron no longer 'coasting', and the emphatic victory over OKC last week was a huge statement. Now the records are the same; so besides slightly better numbers, Durant doesn't have much going for him. The momentum is completely on LeBron's side and if Miami can finish with a better record than OKC from here on out....the MVP is his to lose.


Durant's "big 3" was Westbrook & Harden. In January he played without either, scored 35 PPG on 68% TS and finished the month with a 9 game winning streak. I'm not saying LeBron's not capable of something more impressive than that, but what he's been doing this year is not on the same planet as that, and I think voters. Heck LeBron's basically acknowledged as much.

I'll also note in general that not only is Durant way ahead of LeBron this year by every box score metric imaginable, all serious regression data says the same thing. That's not the sort of thing voters will understand, but as analysts its clear that Durant basically has the edge everywhere you can possibly look.

That's before we even get into voter fatigue. This isn't a phenomena that utterly prevents a player from winning more MVPs, but people have been ready to give Durant an MVP for a while now. A season where LeBron is clearly holding back and Durant did so much by himself is just what people need. As long as the OKC-Durant narrative doesn't clearly change by season's end, I think it will take something very dramatic for LeBron to overcome it.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1257 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:00 am

MisterWestside wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:We'll have to see what happens. If OKC goes into a serious tailspin that'll be one thing, but I think the precise way this dip is happening in OKC (Westbrook's back and they were getting him up to speed) will likely give Durant a pass. Bottom line for the season is that Durant carried OKC to a better record than Miami with far less star power behind him before and that it's basically acknowledged that LeBron is conserving energy. Short of something drastic happening, the MVP is now earmarked for Durant this type.


That may be a reasonable viewpoint to assert, Doctor MJ, but do the people who actually have an MVP vote also see it that way?


I think they do. I think it's clear that MVP voters work in terms of narrative, and that's there biggest weakness other than their ignorance of stats. Short of something drastic, for LeBron to win he'll have to hit a sweet spot where voters pass directly in between the golden narrative for Durant and his glaringly superior stats on all fronts. It can happen of course, but he's the underdog for now.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1258 » by tonyreyes123 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:06 am

If the Heat end up getting the #1 seed overall I don't see how LeBron can't be the MVP.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1259 » by ThePersianFreak » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:17 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
IG2 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:Bottom line for the season is that Durant carried OKC to a better record than Miami with far less star power behind him


I don't know about "far less" star power. Wade has only played 10 more games than Westbrook this season. And I'd say his play-3-games-then-sit-out-2 routine was a much bigger drawback for Miami than Westbrook missing all of his games in one string. At least OKC was able to establish a rhythm/identity without him. Miami on the other hand never could. Anyway, with both Wade and Westbrook out, I'd say the rest of the rosters of both teams, especially when you factor in OKC's far superior defense and rebounding this season, is pretty much a toss up, with the edge maybe even on OKC's side.

Both Miami and OKC have the same win % now. I can't see Durant winning MVP if his team doesn't finish with a better record. The weaker supporting cast argument just doesn't fly, IMO. This isn't Kobe vs. LeBron of the late 00's. OKC's still a loaded team. The narrative in the media over the last few weeks had already shifted to LeBron no longer 'coasting', and the emphatic victory over OKC last week was a huge statement. Now the records are the same; so besides slightly better numbers, Durant doesn't have much going for him. The momentum is completely on LeBron's side and if Miami can finish with a better record than OKC from here on out....the MVP is his to lose.


Durant's "big 3" was Westbrook & Harden. In January he played without either, scored 35 PPG on 68% TS and finished the month with a 9 game winning streak. I'm not saying LeBron's not capable of something more impressive than that, but what he's been doing this year is not on the same planet as that, and I think voters. Heck LeBron's basically acknowledged as much.

I'll also note in general that not only is Durant way ahead of LeBron this year by every box score metric imaginable, all serious regression data says the same thing. That's not the sort of thing voters will understand, but as analysts its clear that Durant basically has the edge everywhere you can possibly look.

That's before we even get into voter fatigue. This isn't a phenomena that utterly prevents a player from winning more MVPs, but people have been ready to give Durant an MVP for a while now. A season where LeBron is clearly holding back and Durant did so much by himself is just what people need. As long as the OKC-Durant narrative doesn't clearly change by season's end, I think it will take something very dramatic for LeBron to overcome it.



Actually the media guys have already changed their minds. they think it is close now.
Stat wise Durant's been superior, no question about that, but LeBron's latest stretch has closed the gap considerably (he had a PER of 28 and now he's 29.4 and i believe he will have a 29.7 PER after tonight's game, though Durant's PER has gone to 30.6 from 31.8). LeBron's shooting % is out of this world while Durant's not shooting the ball that well (compare to his amazing month of january).

Durant's WS/48 was 0.320 at the end of january, now it's 0.311. his ORtg was 128 (first in the league) now its 123.
LeBron's WS/48 was 0.225 at the end of january, now it's 0268. his ORtg was 116 now its 121.
Durant's DRtg was 100 at the end of january, now it's 102.
LeBron's DRtg was 106 at the end of january, now it's 105.

And tonigh's game will change those number a little bit in favour of LeBron. it's clear that LeBron's closed the gap and Mia is winning, while OKC's losing. Now that Miami has a better record, it is very close.
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Re: 2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II 

Post#1260 » by denny33142 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:39 am

The Heat usually turn it up after the All Star break and they are already on a 6 game winning streak.

It doesn't matter what Durant did in January, Who ever outplays the other these last 20 games is the winner, the MVP vote is at the end of the season and these last games are what's going to be fresh on voters minds.

I still believe Durant is the MVP but the gap is closing fast, He was outplayed by Lebron in their last meeting and now Miami has the better record.

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