NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[losmi]

People still talking about last year? This is crazy. The dude lost. There’s nothing you can do about it. In 20 years, no one will care about your “snub”. Also it’s weird how the same folks are typically avid advocates for Nash winning 2 MVPs

In 20 years, or in 100 years, the fact that a player who averaged 24.5-11.8-9.8 on 70% TS with +/- of +13 on a 1st seed didn't get the MVP award in favor of an inferior player on a 3rd seed will pop up as a weird anomaly in all analysis. If they dig further, they'll find out that the other guy also ducked the matchup, and was a perennial underperformer in the playoffs. Mind-blowing. It should be remembered forever that he won this award only because of an orchestrated media campaign.

There's indeed nothing that can be done about the 2023 MVP award, it's permanently stolen, but a lesson should be learned so that this does not happen again in the future.

I’m not reading NONE of that. He lost and will most likely lose again. It is what it is. The guy won MVP as a 6th seed and I heard 0 complaints. Like stop the nonsense. Embiid won because he absolutely cooked/filleted Jokic in their head to head. Again, this season is this season. Last season was last season. All your complaining, stats pulling isn’t changing the fact that Jokic lost fair and square lmao.

No, he didn't lost fair and square, because there were no arguments for Embiid.

He lost because voters were in fear of being accused of discrimination. That should be known so that it doesn't happen ever again.

[Infinite Llamas]

In 20 years, or in 100 years, the fact that a player who averaged 24.5-11.8-9.8 on 70% TS with +/- of +13 on a 1st seed didn't get the MVP award in favor of an inferior player on a 3rd seed will pop up as a weird anomaly in all analysis. If they dig further, they'll find out that the other guy also ducked the matchup, and was a perennial underperformer in the playoffs. Mind-blowing. It should be remembered forever that he won this award only because of an orchestrated media campaign.

There's indeed nothing that can be done about the 2023 MVP award, it's permanently stolen, but a lesson should be learned so that this does not happen again in the future.

I’m not reading NONE of that. He lost and will most likely lose again. It is what it is. The guy won MVP as a 6th seed and I heard 0 complaints. Like stop the nonsense. Embiid won because he absolutely cooked/filleted Jokic in their head to head. Again, this season is this season. Last season was last season. All your complaining, stats pulling isn’t changing the fact that Jokic lost fair and square lmao.

No, he didn't lost fair and square, because there were no arguments for Embiid.

He lost because voters were in fear of being accused of discrimination. That should be known so that it doesn't happen ever again.

So Embiid played well against Jokic in one half of basketball on a random day in January and we are supposed to be convinced that the MVP was decided on that day…is what I gathered from the post you quoted lol

[SOA]

Embiid winning the award last year doesn't even come close to the travesy that was the 61-62 season or the 68-69 season.

[CobraCommander]

Read on Twitter

the worst final of a game this season is this one doncic had today man vs cavs full of injuries team

first ridiculusly calling for a fault that for sure wasnt and then wasting 10 seconds last possesion doing nothing

SGA meanwhile creating a big 3 in okc

As much love as Luka rightfully gets how the hell is Trae Ypung avg 28 and 11 and not even in the conversation?

Well I know the answer - because people see his stats as empty -

So when Luka is 1 on a chart and Tray is second and Giannis and Embiid abd Jokic behind Trae and Luka - people look at those stats as being dubious-

not me-

Trae deserves some love

Btw Luka played bad down the stretch against the cavs - taking and missing a lot of shots- but he played much better defense - getting a block and forcing a turn over in the last 5 minutes when the game was tight -

But their whole offense was - “Luka please be Magic”

They need to fire Kidd if Luka gonna be seriously a MVP candidate - too many games on his resume like last night to balance out the performance on Christmas where he was amazing and they still lost -

Kidd is to Luka what Dean Smith was to MJ… anyone that knows knows what I’m saying

[iggymcfrack]

Read on Twitter

the worst final of a game this season is this one doncic had today man vs cavs full of injuries team

first ridiculusly calling for a fault that for sure wasnt and then wasting 10 seconds last possesion doing nothing

SGA meanwhile creating a big 3 in okc

As much love as Luka rightfully gets how the hell is Trae Ypung avg 28 and 11 and not even in the conversation?

Well I know the answer - because people see his stats as empty -

So when Luka is 1 on a chart and Tray is second and Giannis and Embiid abd Jokic behind Trae and Luka - people look at those stats as being dubious-

not me-

Trae deserves some love

Btw Luka played bad down the stretch against the cavs - taking and missing a lot of shots- but he played much better defense - getting a block and forcing a turn over in the last 5 minutes when the game was tight -

But their whole offense was - “Luka please be Magic”

They need to fire Kidd if Luka gonna be seriously a MVP candidate - too many games on his resume like last night to balance out the performance on Christmas where he was amazing and they still lost -

Kidd is to Luka what Dean Smith was to MJ… anyone that knows knows what I’m saying

Stop. It’s one stat. How does this grab you:

Luka: 28.0 PER (4th), .209 WS/48 (9th), 9.6 BPM (4th)
Trae: 22.2 PER (15th), .145 WS/48 (45th), 4.0 BPM (25th)

Trae may have gotten a bit underrated but in no way is he anywhere remotely close to being an MVP candidate.

[dygaction]

Read on Twitter

the worst final of a game this season is this one doncic had today man vs cavs full of injuries team

first ridiculusly calling for a fault that for sure wasnt and then wasting 10 seconds last possesion doing nothing

SGA meanwhile creating a big 3 in okc

As much love as Luka rightfully gets how the hell is Trae Ypung avg 28 and 11 and not even in the conversation?

Well I know the answer - because people see his stats as empty -

So when Luka is 1 on a chart and Tray is second and Giannis and Embiid abd Jokic behind Trae and Luka - people look at those stats as being dubious-

not me-

Trae deserves some love

Btw Luka played bad down the stretch against the cavs - taking and missing a lot of shots- but he played much better defense - getting a block and forcing a turn over in the last 5 minutes when the game was tight -

But their whole offense was - “Luka please be Magic”

They need to fire Kidd if Luka gonna be seriously a MVP candidate - too many games on his resume like last night to balance out the performance on Christmas where he was amazing and they still lost -

Kidd is to Luka what Dean Smith was to MJ… anyone that knows knows what I’m saying

Kidd is not getting fired anytime soon with the new addition of Lively II, Jones Jr., and Exum this season saving his ass. The last possession down 3 and putting Lively in alone should warrant it though.

Watch on YouTube

[bigboi]

In 20 years, or in 100 years, the fact that a player who averaged 24.5-11.8-9.8 on 70% TS with +/- of +13 on a 1st seed didn't get the MVP award in favor of an inferior player on a 3rd seed will pop up as a weird anomaly in all analysis. If they dig further, they'll find out that the other guy also ducked the matchup, and was a perennial underperformer in the playoffs. Mind-blowing. It should be remembered forever that he won this award only because of an orchestrated media campaign.

There's indeed nothing that can be done about the 2023 MVP award, it's permanently stolen, but a lesson should be learned so that this does not happen again in the future.

I’m not reading NONE of that. He lost and will most likely lose again. It is what it is. The guy won MVP as a 6th seed and I heard 0 complaints. Like stop the nonsense. Embiid won because he absolutely cooked/filleted Jokic in their head to head. Again, this season is this season. Last season was last season. All your complaining, stats pulling isn’t changing the fact that Jokic lost fair and square lmao.

No, he didn't lost fair and square, because there were no arguments for Embiid.

He lost because voters were in fear of being accused of discrimination. That should be known so that it doesn't happen ever again.

But he did lose fair and square. It doesn’t matter what you say lmao. Everything you’re saying is matter of opinion. I could easily argue that Jokic never deserved 2 MVPs in the first place, winning as a 6th seed but he won fair and square. No amount of your whining is going to change the fact that he LOST

[losmi]

I’m not reading NONE of that. He lost and will most likely lose again. It is what it is. The guy won MVP as a 6th seed and I heard 0 complaints. Like stop the nonsense. Embiid won because he absolutely cooked/filleted Jokic in their head to head. Again, this season is this season. Last season was last season. All your complaining, stats pulling isn’t changing the fact that Jokic lost fair and square lmao.

No, he didn't lost fair and square, because there were no arguments for Embiid.

He lost because voters were in fear of being accused of discrimination. That should be known so that it doesn't happen ever again.

But he did lose fair and square. It doesn’t matter what you say lmao. Everything you’re saying is matter of opinion. I could easily argue that Jokic never deserved 2 MVPs in the first place, winning as a 6th seed but he won fair and square. No amount of your whining is going to change the fact that he LOST

You can't argue without arguments. Who deserved the MVP if he didn't as a 6th seed?

There are so many arguments that Jokic deserved the MVP last year, and literally none for Embiid.

Nothing can change the things that happened, but we should prevent such things from happening again.

[bigboi]

I’m not reading NONE of that. He lost and will most likely lose again. It is what it is. The guy won MVP as a 6th seed and I heard 0 complaints. Like stop the nonsense. Embiid won because he absolutely cooked/filleted Jokic in their head to head. Again, this season is this season. Last season was last season. All your complaining, stats pulling isn’t changing the fact that Jokic lost fair and square lmao.

No, he didn't lost fair and square, because there were no arguments for Embiid.

He lost because voters were in fear of being accused of discrimination. That should be known so that it doesn't happen ever again.

So Embiid played well against Jokic in one half of basketball on a random day in January and we are supposed to be convinced that the MVP was decided on that day…is what I gathered from the post you quoted lol

Embiid being a better player than Jokic in the eyes of the voters is why Jokic lost. Again, Jokic won as a 6th seed while Giannis and Embiid put up similar numbers with higher seeds yet I never hear a peep about it. It’s funny because plenty of people criticized Westbrook’s MVP because of the low seeding. Kobe put up vastly superior numbers to Nash at a lower seed yet Nash won MVP and this board argues vehemently that Nash was MVP. This board is completely selective in how it evaluates players and it’s ridiculous. This isn’t even an MVP thread, it’s a Jokic stan thread and has made the conversations completely dishonest.

Had people to start the season say that Jokic was blowing everyone away then once others started catching ground, nonsense narratives started, now that Embiid is definitively a more qualified candidate, the narrative is that Embiid didn’t deserve last year. It’s completely silly. Who cares about last year? Jokic lost. There isn’t going to be a recount. Embiid is the MVP front runner right now and you all have to accept that

[losmi]

Embiid winning the award last year doesn't even come close to the travesy that was the 61-62 season or the 68-69 season.

That was when players were voting, I believe, so it isn't really comparable.

[bigboi]

No, he didn't lost fair and square, because there were no arguments for Embiid.

He lost because voters were in fear of being accused of discrimination. That should be known so that it doesn't happen ever again.

But he did lose fair and square. It doesn’t matter what you say lmao. Everything you’re saying is matter of opinion. I could easily argue that Jokic never deserved 2 MVPs in the first place, winning as a 6th seed but he won fair and square. No amount of your whining is going to change the fact that he LOST

You can't argue without arguments. Who deserved the MVP if he didn't as a 6th seed?

There are so many arguments that Jokic deserved the MVP last year, and literally none for Embiid.

Nothing can change the things that happened, but we should prevent such things from happening again.

Giannis or Embiid deserved it over Jokic that year, you serious? Lmao.

And buddy, you are a Realgm armchair analyst. Your argument doesn’t matter, the voters voted. You keep on crying about something that is set in stone. There should actually be bans on this subject because half of this discussion is people discussing last year like they can change it.

And nothing’s going to prevent controversial MVPs from happening LMAO. You think people care about YOUR arguments and that’s the problem.

Nash over Kobe was controversial
Kobe over CP3 was controversial
Russ over Harden was controversial
Even Giannis over Harden is controversial to many folks
Rose over Bron was controversial

It doesn’t matter, none of y’all are voters. There will continue to be controversial MVP picks. That’s part of the game. The fact of the matter is that JOKIC LOSTTTTTTTTTTTT. END OF DISCUSSION. I DONT CARE WHAT STAT YOU BRING UP, HE L O S T.

[dygaction]

But he did lose fair and square. It doesn’t matter what you say lmao. Everything you’re saying is matter of opinion. I could easily argue that Jokic never deserved 2 MVPs in the first place, winning as a 6th seed but he won fair and square. No amount of your whining is going to change the fact that he LOST

You can't argue without arguments. Who deserved the MVP if he didn't as a 6th seed?

There are so many arguments that Jokic deserved the MVP last year, and literally none for Embiid.

Nothing can change the things that happened, but we should prevent such things from happening again.

Giannis or Embiid deserved it over Jokic that year, you serious? Lmao.

And buddy, you are a Realgm armchair analyst. Your argument doesn’t matter, the voters voted. You keep on crying about something that is set in stone. There should actually be bans on this subject because half of this discussion is people discussing last year like they can change it.

And nothing’s going to prevent controversial MVPs from happening LMAO. You think people care about YOUR arguments and that’s the problem.

Nash over Kobe was controversial
Kobe over CP3 was controversial
Russ over Harden was controversial
Even Giannis over Harden is controversial to many folks
Rose over Bron was controversial

It doesn’t matter, none of y’all are voters. There will continue to be controversial MVP picks. That’s part of the game. The fact of the matter is that JOKIC LOSTTTTTTTTTTTT. END OF DISCUSSION. I DONT CARE WHAT STAT YOU BRING UP, HE L O S T.

If Jokic ends up as a top 5 player ever, people will look into the history and wonder why during his peak with Finals MVP and all time great regular season, he did not get the MVP. Otherwise, an MVP without the chips would not lift players to ATGs

[bigboi]

You can't argue without arguments. Who deserved the MVP if he didn't as a 6th seed?

There are so many arguments that Jokic deserved the MVP last year, and literally none for Embiid.

Nothing can change the things that happened, but we should prevent such things from happening again.

Giannis or Embiid deserved it over Jokic that year, you serious? Lmao.

And buddy, you are a Realgm armchair analyst. Your argument doesn’t matter, the voters voted. You keep on crying about something that is set in stone. There should actually be bans on this subject because half of this discussion is people discussing last year like they can change it.

And nothing’s going to prevent controversial MVPs from happening LMAO. You think people care about YOUR arguments and that’s the problem.

Nash over Kobe was controversial
Kobe over CP3 was controversial
Russ over Harden was controversial
Even Giannis over Harden is controversial to many folks
Rose over Bron was controversial

It doesn’t matter, none of y’all are voters. There will continue to be controversial MVP picks. That’s part of the game. The fact of the matter is that JOKIC LOSTTTTTTTTTTTT. END OF DISCUSSION. I DONT CARE WHAT STAT YOU BRING UP, HE L O S T.

If Jokic ends up as a top 5 player ever, people will look into the history and wonder why during his peak with Finals MVP and all time great regular season, he did not get the MVP. Otherwise, an MVP without the chips would not lift players to ATGs

We can bet money that Jokic will never be looked at as top 5 ever lol. And regardless, people would either view him as top 5 ever or they wouldn’t. Tons of casuals view Kobe as top 5 ever and his number of MVPs never come into question

[Jamaaliver]

As much love as Luka rightfully gets how the hell is Trae Ypung avg 28 and 11 and not even in the conversation?

Well I know the answer - because people see his stats as empty -

So when Luka is 1 on a chart and Tray is second and Giannis and Embiid abd Jokic behind Trae and Luka - people look at those stats as being dubious-

not me-

Trae deserves some love

Considering Luka's team didn't even make the playoffs last year, it is pretty mind-boggling to Hawks fans.

All the same...

[dygaction]

Giannis or Embiid deserved it over Jokic that year, you serious? Lmao.

And buddy, you are a Realgm armchair analyst. Your argument doesn’t matter, the voters voted. You keep on crying about something that is set in stone. There should actually be bans on this subject because half of this discussion is people discussing last year like they can change it.

And nothing’s going to prevent controversial MVPs from happening LMAO. You think people care about YOUR arguments and that’s the problem.

Nash over Kobe was controversial
Kobe over CP3 was controversial
Russ over Harden was controversial
Even Giannis over Harden is controversial to many folks
Rose over Bron was controversial

It doesn’t matter, none of y’all are voters. There will continue to be controversial MVP picks. That’s part of the game. The fact of the matter is that JOKIC LOSTTTTTTTTTTTT. END OF DISCUSSION. I DONT CARE WHAT STAT YOU BRING UP, HE L O S T.

If Jokic ends up as a top 5 player ever, people will look into the history and wonder why during his peak with Finals MVP and all time great regular season, he did not get the MVP. Otherwise, an MVP without the chips would not lift players to ATGs

We can bet money that Jokic will never be looked at as top 5 ever lol. And regardless, people would either view him as top 5 ever or they wouldn’t. Tons of casuals view Kobe as top 5 ever and his number of MVPs never come into question

His peak is, and his top 3 seasons are there to compare with anyone in top 10. With two more rings, I don't know how you can find 5 players in history better than him.

[Cubbies2120]

Giannis or Embiid deserved it over Jokic that year, you serious? Lmao.

And buddy, you are a Realgm armchair analyst. Your argument doesn’t matter, the voters voted. You keep on crying about something that is set in stone. There should actually be bans on this subject because half of this discussion is people discussing last year like they can change it.

And nothing’s going to prevent controversial MVPs from happening LMAO. You think people care about YOUR arguments and that’s the problem.

Nash over Kobe was controversial
Kobe over CP3 was controversial
Russ over Harden was controversial
Even Giannis over Harden is controversial to many folks
Rose over Bron was controversial

It doesn’t matter, none of y’all are voters. There will continue to be controversial MVP picks. That’s part of the game. The fact of the matter is that JOKIC LOSTTTTTTTTTTTT. END OF DISCUSSION. I DONT CARE WHAT STAT YOU BRING UP, HE L O S T.

If Jokic ends up as a top 5 player ever, people will look into the history and wonder why during his peak with Finals MVP and all time great regular season, he did not get the MVP. Otherwise, an MVP without the chips would not lift players to ATGs

We can bet money that Jokic will never be looked at as top 5 ever lol. And regardless, people would either view him as top 5 ever or they wouldn’t. Tons of casuals view Kobe as top 5 ever and his number of MVPs never come into question

What is "looked at as top 5 ever lol"...by a majority of NBA players? By the US average fan (who catches 20% of their OWN team's games, let alone other teams)? By realgm (something we can actually quantify luckily, with the player comparison board).

Don't leave it so vague For all we know, it could mean "We can bet money that I [bigboi] will never view him as top 5 lol"...in which case that's not a fair bet now is it ?

[scrabbarista]

People still talking about last year? This is crazy. The dude lost. There’s nothing you can do about it. In 20 years, no one will care about your “snub”. Also it’s weird how the same folks are typically avid advocates for Nash winning 2 MVPs

A. I think Nash is one of the worst MVP's ever. Great player, easily top fifty, but not an MVP.

B. Jokic clearly deserved it last season.

C. We can talk about what happened fifty years ago on these boards, but you're upset anyone brings up last season?

D. If were actually true that Jokic and Nash boosters overlap (somewhere other than in your mind), then what would be weird about that? If you ask me, the weirdest thing about it would be the fact that you noticed.

[losmi]

You can't argue without arguments. Who deserved the MVP if he didn't as a 6th seed?

There are so many arguments that Jokic deserved the MVP last year, and literally none for Embiid.

Nothing can change the things that happened, but we should prevent such things from happening again.

Giannis or Embiid deserved it over Jokic that year, you serious? Lmao.

And buddy, you are a Realgm armchair analyst. Your argument doesn’t matter, the voters voted. You keep on crying about something that is set in stone. There should actually be bans on this subject because half of this discussion is people discussing last year like they can change it.

And nothing’s going to prevent controversial MVPs from happening LMAO. You think people care about YOUR arguments and that’s the problem.

Nash over Kobe was controversial
Kobe over CP3 was controversial
Russ over Harden was controversial
Even Giannis over Harden is controversial to many folks
Rose over Bron was controversial

It doesn’t matter, none of y’all are voters. There will continue to be controversial MVP picks. That’s part of the game. The fact of the matter is that JOKIC LOSTTTTTTTTTTTT. END OF DISCUSSION. I DONT CARE WHAT STAT YOU BRING UP, HE L O S T.

If Jokic ends up as a top 5 player ever, people will look into the history and wonder why during his peak with Finals MVP and all time great regular season, he did not get the MVP. Otherwise, an MVP without the chips would not lift players to ATGs

Indeed, robbing an all time great who had an all time great season just to appease some loud, mediocre player will be unbelievable to future generations.

[eyeatoma]

Giannis or Embiid deserved it over Jokic that year, you serious? Lmao.

And buddy, you are a Realgm armchair analyst. Your argument doesn’t matter, the voters voted. You keep on crying about something that is set in stone. There should actually be bans on this subject because half of this discussion is people discussing last year like they can change it.

And nothing’s going to prevent controversial MVPs from happening LMAO. You think people care about YOUR arguments and that’s the problem.

Nash over Kobe was controversial
Kobe over CP3 was controversial
Russ over Harden was controversial
Even Giannis over Harden is controversial to many folks
Rose over Bron was controversial

It doesn’t matter, none of y’all are voters. There will continue to be controversial MVP picks. That’s part of the game. The fact of the matter is that JOKIC LOSTTTTTTTTTTTT. END OF DISCUSSION. I DONT CARE WHAT STAT YOU BRING UP, HE L O S T.

If Jokic ends up as a top 5 player ever, people will look into the history and wonder why during his peak with Finals MVP and all time great regular season, he did not get the MVP. Otherwise, an MVP without the chips would not lift players to ATGs

Indeed, robbing an all time great who had an all time great season just to appease some loud, mediocre player will be unbelievable to future generations.

Lol, at Embiid being mediocre. Like genuinely, not sure how that word can be thrown about.

Don't tell me playoffs, because as I've said he's been injured the majority of the time.

[Wolfgang630]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XO0PgrZjS-uU8MmGKL8grQ

Another game missed. He needs to fall down the mvp ranking now. Other guys are playing so they should be rewarded. Jokic was penalized when he was missing games at the end of last season.