NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[michaelm]

The case patterns (if you trust reported cases) in various regions show that all people are spreading the virus regardless of vax status. The math is undeniable. Mutations are a derivative of replications. The end.

The math which is undeniable is that if you get the R1 of an infectious disease down to below R1 exponential spread will be stopped. These vaccines are easily capable of contributing to this to a significant degree, along with other measures. If 35% or more of a population don't do anything vaccination etc won't work, and not because the vaccine is ineffective.

The delta mutation arose in India where there was mass spread in a largely unvaccinated population. The gamma variant arose similarly in Brazil but was out competed worldwide by the delta variant due to the delta variant being more infectious.

[Neutral 123]

I highly recommend watching this candid interview with Fauci.

This is my breakdown, but as is your God given right, you can take of it what you will.

Watch on YouTube

Some highlights
21:00 he admits what anyone with common sense knew all along, which is that this is primarily transmitted through airborne particles, which highly suggests these people wanted this to spread which is why they were so anti mask until infections were out of control.

22:30 Covid is so dangerous that 40% of people by his own estimate will never develop any symptoms.

23:30 Fever and cough appear to be the symptoms almost always found when someone becomes symptomatic.
80% of the 60% who become symptomatic deal with a mild case.

37:00 admits that the vaccines last weeks to a few months and why more and more shots will be necessary.

44:00 admits that the response has been a failure worldwide.

47:30 claims that any disagreement with him, even coming from another scientist is only to gain attention. SMH...

50:50 This guy comes straight out and says screw your personal liberties.

51:20 ADMITS THAT IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO GET THE VACCINE. HE FALSELY CLAIMS THAT YOU ARE DOING IT FOR THE GREATER GOOD. SMDH

54:00 Advocates 'edited' media. The idea of only presenting information suitable to his and the govts interests.

55:30 Admits that 'the science' changes. They were wrong then so common sense tells you they could be wrong now. A point completely lost on the guy.

[Mephariel]

LOL. Neutral 123 still using the same trash bubble thinking all the other conservatives do. Cherry pick videos and ignore scientific fact. "This guy said this and said that. Here is video."

While Fauci is a highly respected doctor, I didn't watch the video. I don't have to. We have mountains of scientific published data at this point. On vaccinated, unvaccinated, infection rates, death rates, etc. Not just USA, but the world.

But keep living in your fantasy bubble.

[The High Cyde]

I don’t think he can try that garbage on the CA board anymore so he’s spouting it here, same old nonsense

[Neutral 123]

LOL. Neutral 123 still using the same trash bubble thinking all the other conservatives do. Cherry pick videos and ignore scientific fact. "This guy said this and said that. Here is video."

While Fauci is a highly respected doctor, I didn't watch the video. I don't have to. We have mountains of scientific published data at this point. On vaccinated, unvaccinated, infection rates, death rates, etc. Not just USA, but the world.

But keep living in your fantasy bubble.

hmmmm

[NyKnicks1714]

55:30 Admits that 'the science' changes. They were wrong then so common sense tells you they could be wrong now. A point completely lost on the guy.

You have to be trolling. I refuse to believe you actually sincerely typed this and hit submit.

[Neutral 123]

55:30 Admits that 'the science' changes. They were wrong then so common sense tells you they could be wrong now. A point completely lost on the guy.

You have to be trolling. I refuse to believe you actually sincerely typed this and hit submit.

Huh? That's logic. He claimed he never flip flopped as he's been accused of doing during the pandemic. He said he doesn't flip flop but the science changes as they get more and better data. So if they were wrong then, it's certainly possible they are wrong now. Not sure what's hard to understand.

[NyKnicks1714]

55:30 Admits that 'the science' changes. They were wrong then so common sense tells you they could be wrong now. A point completely lost on the guy.

You have to be trolling. I refuse to believe you actually sincerely typed this and hit submit.

Huh? That's logic. He claimed he never flip flopped as he's been accused of doing during the pandemic. He said he doesn't flip flop but the science changes as they get more and better data. So if they were wrong then, it's certainly possible they are wrong now. Not sure what's hard to understand.

Science is always changing. We learn new things all the time, and thus what we know about something changes. There's not a scientist alive today, or any non-scientist who is remotely familiar with science who would ever suggest otherwise. The fact that you phrased it as "admits the science changes" just reeks of utter cluelessness.

They were wrong then so common sense tells you they could be wrong now

You can say this about anything. It's a meaningless thing to say. We might find out in 50 years that ibuprofen does something terrible to the human body that nobody is aware of right now, it's possible. Maybe we should all stop taking it. I mean, they say it's safe but they've been wrong before.

[Neutral 123]

You have to be trolling. I refuse to believe you actually sincerely typed this and hit submit.

Huh? That's logic. He claimed he never flip flopped as he's been accused of doing during the pandemic. He said he doesn't flip flop but the science changes as they get more and better data. So if they were wrong then, it's certainly possible they are wrong now. Not sure what's hard to understand.

Science is always changing. We learn new things all the time, and thus what we know about something changes. There's not a scientist alive today, or any non-scientist who is remotely familiar with science who would ever suggest otherwise. The fact that you phrased it as "admits the science changes" just reeks of utter cluelessness.

They were wrong then so common sense tells you they could be wrong now

You can say this about anything. It's a meaningless thing to say. We might find out in 50 years that ibuprofen does something terrible to the human body that nobody is aware of right now, it's possible. Maybe we should all stop taking it. I mean, they say it's safe but they've been wrong before.

The point is they've changed on many things in a short amount of time. It is a lie to declare something is safe when the truth is that can change and is far more likely to change than something like ibuprofen which has been sold for 50 years, unlike a rushed vaccine that is being FORCED on people which is not the case for ibuprofen. I mean you do acknowledge these important differences right?

[NyKnicks1714]

Huh? That's logic. He claimed he never flip flopped as he's been accused of doing during the pandemic. He said he doesn't flip flop but the science changes as they get more and better data. So if they were wrong then, it's certainly possible they are wrong now. Not sure what's hard to understand.

Science is always changing. We learn new things all the time, and thus what we know about something changes. There's not a scientist alive today, or any non-scientist who is remotely familiar with science who would ever suggest otherwise. The fact that you phrased it as "admits the science changes" just reeks of utter cluelessness.

They were wrong then so common sense tells you they could be wrong now

You can say this about anything. It's a meaningless thing to say. We might find out in 50 years that ibuprofen does something terrible to the human body that nobody is aware of right now, it's possible. Maybe we should all stop taking it. I mean, they say it's safe but they've been wrong before.

The point is they've changed on many things in a short amount of time. It is a lie to declare something is safe when the truth is that can change and is far more likely to change than something like ibuprofen which has been sold for 50 years, unlike a rushed vaccine that is being FORCED on people which is not the case for ibuprofen. I mean you do acknowledge these important differences right?

Of course they changed on many things in a short amount of time. No one with any common sense would ever expect otherwise when dealing with something brand new. This is not a criticism like you somehow think it is.

The vaccine was not "rushed". This has been debunked so many times.

It is not being forced on anyone. I don't need to respond to your falsehoods.

[Neutral 123]

Science is always changing. We learn new things all the time, and thus what we know about something changes. There's not a scientist alive today, or any non-scientist who is remotely familiar with science who would ever suggest otherwise. The fact that you phrased it as "admits the science changes" just reeks of utter cluelessness.



You can say this about anything. It's a meaningless thing to say. We might find out in 50 years that ibuprofen does something terrible to the human body that nobody is aware of right now, it's possible. Maybe we should all stop taking it. I mean, they say it's safe but they've been wrong before.

The point is they've changed on many things in a short amount of time. It is a lie to declare something is safe when the truth is that can change and is far more likely to change than something like ibuprofen which has been sold for 50 years, unlike a rushed vaccine that is being FORCED on people which is not the case for ibuprofen. I mean you do acknowledge these important differences right?

Of course they changed on many things in a short amount of time. No one with any common sense would ever expect otherwise when dealing with something brand new. This is not a criticism like you somehow think it is.

The vaccine was not "rushed". This has been debunked so many times.

It is not being forced on anyone. I don't need to respond to your falsehoods.

Amazing. We are on a basketball forum. Basketball players are being told they must take the injection or they can't earn a living doing what they are trained to do. In places, you can't even go out to eat unless you take these injections. These people say it is safe. You acknowledge that statement can't be true because the data they are basing that statement on can change. They fully admit the vaccine was rushed. In fact it was given emergency approval, so it was injected into people without being fully vetted. Are reality and facts meaningless now? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here.

[NyKnicks1714]

The point is they've changed on many things in a short amount of time. It is a lie to declare something is safe when the truth is that can change and is far more likely to change than something like ibuprofen which has been sold for 50 years, unlike a rushed vaccine that is being FORCED on people which is not the case for ibuprofen. I mean you do acknowledge these important differences right?

Of course they changed on many things in a short amount of time. No one with any common sense would ever expect otherwise when dealing with something brand new. This is not a criticism like you somehow think it is.

The vaccine was not "rushed". This has been debunked so many times.

It is not being forced on anyone. I don't need to respond to your falsehoods.

Amazing. We are on a basketball forum. Basketball players are being told they must take the injection or they can't earn a living doing what they are trained to do. In places, you can't even go out to eat unless you take these injections.

Correct. Nobody is being forced to take it. If you want to play home NBA games in NYC or SF, then yes you need to have the vaccine. If you want to go out to eat at a particular restaurant, you might need to have the vaccine. Nobody is being forced to do any of these things.

These people say it is safe. You acknowledge that statement can't be true because the data they are basing that statement on can change. They fully admit the vaccine was rushed. In fact it was given emergency approval, so it was injected into people without being fully vetted. Are reality and facts meaningless now? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here.

"These people" say it's safe because of the testing that's been conducted, because of the data that we have. Go read one of FNQ's posts to learn more about the clinical trials. I'm sure he's spoken at length about the topic. This information is out there for you to view, and you choose to ignore it and just stick with your well-debunked talking points. No wonder you were banned from the CA board.

[Neutral 123]

Of course they changed on many things in a short amount of time. No one with any common sense would ever expect otherwise when dealing with something brand new. This is not a criticism like you somehow think it is.

The vaccine was not "rushed". This has been debunked so many times.

It is not being forced on anyone. I don't need to respond to your falsehoods.

Amazing. We are on a basketball forum. Basketball players are being told they must take the injection or they can't earn a living doing what they are trained to do. In places, you can't even go out to eat unless you take these injections.

Correct. Nobody is being forced to take it. If you want to play home NBA games in NYC or SF, then yes you need to have the vaccine. If you want to go out to eat at a particular restaurant, you might need to have the vaccine. Nobody is being forced to do any of these things.

These people say it is safe. You acknowledge that statement can't be true because the data they are basing that statement on can change. They fully admit the vaccine was rushed. In fact it was given emergency approval, so it was injected into people without being fully vetted. Are reality and facts meaningless now? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here.

"These people" say it's safe because of the testing that's been conducted, because of the data that we have. Go read one of FNQ's posts to learn more about the clinical trials. I'm sure he's spoken at length about the topic. This information is out there for you to view, and you choose to ignore it and just stick with your well-debunked talking points. No wonder you were banned from the CA board.

Amazing. Take it or have your rights taken away. Take it or you can't make a living. But that's not force though. That's your response? I'm blown away man. Really.

[NyKnicks1714]

Amazing. We are on a basketball forum. Basketball players are being told they must take the injection or they can't earn a living doing what they are trained to do. In places, you can't even go out to eat unless you take these injections.

Correct. Nobody is being forced to take it. If you want to play home NBA games in NYC or SF, then yes you need to have the vaccine. If you want to go out to eat at a particular restaurant, you might need to have the vaccine. Nobody is being forced to do any of these things.

These people say it is safe. You acknowledge that statement can't be true because the data they are basing that statement on can change. They fully admit the vaccine was rushed. In fact it was given emergency approval, so it was injected into people without being fully vetted. Are reality and facts meaningless now? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here.

"These people" say it's safe because of the testing that's been conducted, because of the data that we have. Go read one of FNQ's posts to learn more about the clinical trials. I'm sure he's spoken at length about the topic. This information is out there for you to view, and you choose to ignore it and just stick with your well-debunked talking points. No wonder you were banned from the CA board.

Amazing. Take it or have your rights taken away. Take it or you can't make a living. But that's not force though. That's your response? I'm blown away man. Really.

Lol, playing in the NBA and eating at a specific restaurant are rights now. Stop trolling.

[Neutral 123]

Correct. Nobody is being forced to take it. If you want to play home NBA games in NYC or SF, then yes you need to have the vaccine. If you want to go out to eat at a particular restaurant, you might need to have the vaccine. Nobody is being forced to do any of these things.




"These people" say it's safe because of the testing that's been conducted, because of the data that we have. Go read one of FNQ's posts to learn more about the clinical trials. I'm sure he's spoken at length about the topic. This information is out there for you to view, and you choose to ignore it and just stick with your well-debunked talking points. No wonder you were banned from the CA board.

Amazing. Take it or have your rights taken away. Take it or you can't make a living. But that's not force though. That's your response? I'm blown away man. Really.

Lol, playing in the NBA and eating at a specific restaurant are rights now. Stop trolling.

Interesting. So if this was done to homosexuals or black people that wouldn't be a denial of rights in your mind? Very disturbing stuff.

[dribble1614]

it's mandated because you're infringing on other people's rights (ie their right to live a disease-free and healthy life) by not getting it and demanding that you're allowed to interact with other people. how dumb can anti-vaxxers be? no surprise that one of the leading idiots behind the anti-vaxx movement (kyrie irving) is the same guy who believes the earth was flat.

[ZB9]

Are you aware that the FDA consulting board on pfizer booster shots for the general public voted against them 16 to 2?

yea there were some serious concerns raised by FDA members on that board. It was pretty disturbing. Of course, they were overwritten by the director. The FDA board members that voted are all scientists and doctors, but idk if the director is.

Idk how accurate some of the numbers stated by the FDA members are but at the very least there are a lot of serious questions that need to be answered about these vaccines and a lot of research that needs to be done to find out just how safe they actually are.

Read on Twitter

?s=20


Continuing to clutter the topic

[NyKnicks1714]

[spoiler]

Are you aware that the FDA consulting board on pfizer booster shots for the general public voted against them 16 to 2?

yea there were some serious concerns raised by FDA members on that board. It was pretty disturbing. Of course, they were overwritten by the CDC director. The FDA board members that voted are all scientists and doctors, but idk if the CDC director is.

Idk how accurate some of the numbers stated by the FDA members are but at the very least there are a lot of serious questions that need to be answered about these vaccines and a lot of research that needs to be done to find out just how safe they actually are.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Oh look, more misinformation from you. I don't expect you to correct it or acknowledge it, but for anyone who stumbles upon this garbage:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tech-tycoon-steve-kirsch-dangled-a-covid-cure-and-then-went-full-anti-vaxxer

As recently as this spring, Steve Kirsch and his COVID-19 Early Treatment Fund (CETF) were riding high.

Millions in claimed donations from Silicon Valley’s elite. Promising treatment research. Management from Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors. A scientific advisory board staffed with medical all-stars. And plenty of attention from research universities and the press alike.

But recent weeks have found the group increasingly alienated and friendless—and its founder provoking a furor with wild and bogus claims at a public Food and Drug Administration (FDA) hearing that COVID-19 vaccines “kill more people than they save.” The agency quickly slapped down the comments from Kirsch, a tech mogul with a fortune once estimated at $230 million, even as the claims triggered a flurry of false social-media posts attributing Kirsch’s assertions to the FDA itself.

It’s part of a pattern of recent behavior that has cost Kirsch much of his institutional support and, he claims, his role at two of his latest tech start-ups. His descent reveals how the plague of COVID-19 lies and misconceptions can infect even those with impressive educations and enormous resources.

“Mr. Kirsch is posing as a scientist with expertise in drug and vaccine development. His statements over the past year belie this pose,” Dr. Douglas Richman, distinguished professor of pathology and medicine at the University of California San Diego and a former member of the CETF’s advisory board, told The Daily Beast. “His dissemination of misinformation is a threat to public health.”

As Richman tells it, the CETF was in a sense a victim of its own early success—and of its founder’s self-regard. The latter was evident in Kirsch’s correspondence with The Daily Beast.

“THE ENTIRE SCIENTIFIC ADVISORY BOARD CAN’T FIND A SINGLE ERROR IN MY ANALYSIS. THEY ARE AFRAID TO DEBATE ME ON A LIVE RECORDED ZOOM CALL BECAUSE IT WOULD REVEAL HOW COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH THEY ARE WITH VACCINE SAFETY ISSUES,” Kirsch wrote in an email to The Daily Beast (all caps his). “NONE WILL CHALLENGE us because we have the facts and science on our side. Go find me ANYONE WHO WILL DO A RECORDED DEBATE IF YOU WANT TO SEE WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH.”

But Richman and multiple other scientists—including vaccine experts—whom The Daily Beast consulted for this article quickly struck upon the key problem in Kirsch’s claims. As with many anti-vaxxers, Kirsch and the CETF’s allegations about safe and effective vaccines’ supposed dangers rely on raw data from the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), as well as upon a single study published last month in a small toxicology journal—a study that itself drew upon VAERS data.

The problem with relying on that data, experts have long stressed, is that the system depends on self-reporting, making it susceptible to mistaken or even fraudulent attributions of health problems and fatalities. The information it collects is useful mainly for credentialed researchers to identify potential patterns and verify them through more rigorous databases—such as the Centers for Disease Control’s VSAFE—and through clinical testing.

“It is meant to be a catchall, and not to delineate actual causal relationships,” said Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. “Is it something that you see in other trials where there’s more rigor involved? That’s how you properly use VAERS.”

The misinformation Kirsch spewed in his three-and-a-half minute slot at last week’s hearing—sandwiched between other conspiracy theorists—represents an incredible departure from the promise that attended the CETF’s founding in April 2020.

[The High Cyde]

Dude gets suspended for misinformation and comes right back lmao gotta love the dedication

[ZB9]

[spoiler]

yea there were some serious concerns raised by FDA members on that board. It was pretty disturbing. Of course, they were overwritten by the CDC director. The FDA board members that voted are all scientists and doctors, but idk if the CDC director is.

Idk how accurate some of the numbers stated by the FDA members are but at the very least there are a lot of serious questions that need to be answered about these vaccines and a lot of research that needs to be done to find out just how safe they actually are.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Oh look, more misinformation from you. I don't expect you to correct it or acknowledge it, but for anyone who stumbles upon this garbage:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tech-tycoon-steve-kirsch-dangled-a-covid-cure-and-then-went-full-anti-vaxxer

As recently as this spring, Steve Kirsch and his COVID-19 Early Treatment Fund (CETF) were riding high.

Millions in claimed donations from Silicon Valley’s elite. Promising treatment research. Management from Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors. A scientific advisory board staffed with medical all-stars. And plenty of attention from research universities and the press alike.

But recent weeks have found the group increasingly alienated and friendless—and its founder provoking a furor with wild and bogus claims at a public Food and Drug Administration (FDA) hearing that COVID-19 vaccines “kill more people than they save.” The agency quickly slapped down the comments from Kirsch, a tech mogul with a fortune once estimated at $230 million, even as the claims triggered a flurry of false social-media posts attributing Kirsch’s assertions to the FDA itself.

It’s part of a pattern of recent behavior that has cost Kirsch much of his institutional support and, he claims, his role at two of his latest tech start-ups. His descent reveals how the plague of COVID-19 lies and misconceptions can infect even those with impressive educations and enormous resources.

“Mr. Kirsch is posing as a scientist with expertise in drug and vaccine development. His statements over the past year belie this pose,” Dr. Douglas Richman, distinguished professor of pathology and medicine at the University of California San Diego and a former member of the CETF’s advisory board, told The Daily Beast. “His dissemination of misinformation is a threat to public health.”

As Richman tells it, the CETF was in a sense a victim of its own early success—and of its founder’s self-regard. The latter was evident in Kirsch’s correspondence with The Daily Beast.

“THE ENTIRE SCIENTIFIC ADVISORY BOARD CAN’T FIND A SINGLE ERROR IN MY ANALYSIS. THEY ARE AFRAID TO DEBATE ME ON A LIVE RECORDED ZOOM CALL BECAUSE IT WOULD REVEAL HOW COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH THEY ARE WITH VACCINE SAFETY ISSUES,” Kirsch wrote in an email to The Daily Beast (all caps his). “NONE WILL CHALLENGE us because we have the facts and science on our side. Go find me ANYONE WHO WILL DO A RECORDED DEBATE IF YOU WANT TO SEE WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH.”

But Richman and multiple other scientists—including vaccine experts—whom The Daily Beast consulted for this article quickly struck upon the key problem in Kirsch’s claims. As with many anti-vaxxers, Kirsch and the CETF’s allegations about safe and effective vaccines’ supposed dangers rely on raw data from the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), as well as upon a single study published last month in a small toxicology journal—a study that itself drew upon VAERS data.

The problem with relying on that data, experts have long stressed, is that the system depends on self-reporting, making it susceptible to mistaken or even fraudulent attributions of health problems and fatalities. The information it collects is useful mainly for credentialed researchers to identify potential patterns and verify them through more rigorous databases—such as the Centers for Disease Control’s VSAFE—and through clinical testing.

“It is meant to be a catchall, and not to delineate actual causal relationships,” said Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. “Is it something that you see in other trials where there’s more rigor involved? That’s how you properly use VAERS.”

The misinformation Kirsch spewed in his three-and-a-half minute slot at last week’s hearing—sandwiched between other conspiracy theorists—represents an incredible departure from the promise that attended the CETF’s founding in April 2020.

FDA board voted AGAINST by a vote of 16-2. That is simply a fact.

He's not the only one who raised concerns.