2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

User avatar
red96
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,226
And1: 2,393
Joined: Oct 09, 2008
Location: Where hope is still alive.

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1281 » by red96 » Tue Jan 3, 2017 6:33 pm

Slava wrote:
red96 wrote:
Slava wrote:Too early for Giannis to be in the MVP conversation? 2nd in the league in both PER and RPM right now.
All of that is fine and all, but dude is on 13th best team in the league and the Buck are at .515% wins :nonono: If he has a shot, than why not guys on 30 win teams? 20 win teams even. An MVP player is only good enough to get his team to .500? No freaking way.


Are you trying to be in contention for the biggest homer on RealGM? I'm not saying he is the MVP, I'm saying he should be getting in the conversation and a few votes.

I guess he should get some kind of mention for the great season he's having but I think Harden, Westbrook, LBJ, Kawhi, and Durant all deserve votes before Giannis. Imo, if you can't get your team in the top 10 or at least 3rd in a weak conference, your not a bonifide MVP candidate. You may not agree with my opinion, but how is that being a homer?
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
-baki "the Rockets fan"
phanman
General Manager
Posts: 8,533
And1: 9,195
Joined: Mar 18, 2016
 

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1282 » by phanman » Tue Jan 3, 2017 9:01 pm

LeBron's 3pt shot is almost back to Miami-levels @37% which is just downright scary. He is taking and attempting them at a career high this season 1.9/5. I didn't notice that he has actually over taken Kyrie as the leading scorer on the team as well. It's pretty crazy that his minutes have actually increased this season as opposed to the trend we were seeing with Cleveland trying to preserve him for the playoffs. LeBron is a machine, 17,500 minutes in the RS and 5300 minutes in the playoffs throughout his parade to the finals yet no signs of slowing down for the Kang.

25.6/7.8/8.6/1.4/0.6 in 37mpg on 50/37/68 59%TS
User avatar
MisterHibachi
RealGM
Posts: 18,657
And1: 19,075
Joined: Oct 06, 2013
Location: Toronto
 

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1283 » by MisterHibachi » Tue Jan 3, 2017 9:53 pm

Also: entering the Pelicans game last night, Cavs have league's best win percentage and 2nd toughest schedule in games LeBron has played.

https://m.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5llxjb/in_the_29_games_in_which_lebron_has_played_this/
"He looked like Batman coming out of nowhere"
User avatar
ken6199
Forum Mod - Rockets
Forum Mod - Rockets
Posts: 13,436
And1: 18,742
Joined: Jan 05, 2015
Location: Bill O'Brien is GOAT
     

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1284 » by ken6199 » Tue Jan 3, 2017 10:19 pm

RealGM loves you, Melissa.
User avatar
K_chile22
RealGM
Posts: 16,754
And1: 8,645
Joined: Jul 15, 2015
   

Re: RE: Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1285 » by K_chile22 » Tue Jan 3, 2017 10:21 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:Also: entering the Pelicans game last night, Cavs have league's best win percentage and 2nd toughest schedule in games LeBron has played.

https://m.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5llxjb/in_the_29_games_in_which_lebron_has_played_this/

Have a hard time giving LeBron extra points for missing games.
User avatar
MrBigShot
RealGM
Posts: 18,850
And1: 20,567
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
 

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1286 » by MrBigShot » Tue Jan 3, 2017 10:52 pm

A little while ago I said it would be a joke if RW didn't win the award if he kept this up, but Harden & the rockets have been sensational since then. I think he has much more to work with than Westbrook to be sure, but its going to be a really interesting race throughout the rest of the season.
"They say you miss 100% of the shots you take" - Mike James
kevC
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,499
And1: 367
Joined: Oct 02, 2005

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1287 » by kevC » Tue Jan 3, 2017 10:59 pm

MrBigShot wrote:I think he has much more to work with than Westbrook to be sure

Why exactly is this "for sure"? Literally no one thought Rockets had a better supporting cast before the season started than the Thunder. Harden is MAKING them look good.
User avatar
K_chile22
RealGM
Posts: 16,754
And1: 8,645
Joined: Jul 15, 2015
   

Re: RE: Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1288 » by K_chile22 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 12:18 am

kevC wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:I think he has much more to work with than Westbrook to be sure

Why exactly is this "for sure"? Literally no one thought Rockets had a better supporting cast before the season started than the Thunder. Harden is MAKING them look good.

Eric Gordon is having his best eFG% season by 4.4%, and is 5 threes short of his career high, in the 36th game.

Ryan Anderson is 0.1% from his career high, from six years ago.

James Harden is certainly making them better, but is getting discredited for it, because he's making them look so good.
User avatar
TheGOATRises007
RealGM
Posts: 21,608
And1: 20,281
Joined: Oct 05, 2013
         

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1289 » by TheGOATRises007 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 12:23 am

If the Rockets finish ahead of the Thunder and Harden keeps it up, he should win it.

No one thought the Rockets would be a top 4 seed from what I recall and they might push the Spurs for the 2nd seed.
User avatar
MrBigShot
RealGM
Posts: 18,850
And1: 20,567
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
 

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1290 » by MrBigShot » Wed Jan 4, 2017 1:18 am

K_chile22 wrote:
kevC wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:I think he has much more to work with than Westbrook to be sure

Why exactly is this "for sure"? Literally no one thought Rockets had a better supporting cast before the season started than the Thunder. Harden is MAKING them look good.

Eric Gordon is having his best eFG% season by 4.4%, and is 5 threes short of his career high, in the 36th game.

Ryan Anderson is 0.1% from his career high, from six years ago.

James Harden is certainly making them better, but is getting discredited for it, because he's making them look so good.


Who's discrediting him? He makes players around him better, there's no disputing that. I'm saying his supporting cast is better than Westbrook's. Compare some of the contributors on each roster; I'd take the rockets supporting cast all day.

Oladipo, Roberson, Kanter, Adams, Sabonis, Grant, Ilyasova
vs
Ariza, Pat Bev, Ryno, Gordon, Capella, Dekker, Harrell
"They say you miss 100% of the shots you take" - Mike James
User avatar
K_chile22
RealGM
Posts: 16,754
And1: 8,645
Joined: Jul 15, 2015
   

Re: RE: Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1291 » by K_chile22 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 1:21 am

MrBigShot wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:
kevC wrote:Why exactly is this "for sure"? Literally no one thought Rockets had a better supporting cast before the season started than the Thunder. Harden is MAKING them look good.

Eric Gordon is having his best eFG% season by 4.4%, and is 5 threes short of his career high, in the 36th game.

Ryan Anderson is 0.1% from his career high, from six years ago.

James Harden is certainly making them better, but is getting discredited for it, because he's making them look so good.


Who's discrediting him? He makes players around him better, there's no disputing that. I'm saying his supporting cast is better than Westbrook's. Compare some of the contributors on each roster; I'd take the rockets supporting cast all day.

Oladipo, Roberson, Kanter, Adams, Sabonis, Grant, Ilyasova
vs
Ariza, Pat Bev, Ryno, Gordon, Capella, Dekker, Harrell

No one, outside of Rockets fans, said this before this season started.
jangles86
Starter
Posts: 2,384
And1: 983
Joined: Jun 02, 2011
 

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1292 » by jangles86 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 1:40 am

John Wall eastern conference player of the month for December.

Also was last years decembers player of the month.

Wall is incredibly underrated on this board. He has gone past CP3 as 3rd best point guard.
User avatar
DeKobe DeBryant
Analyst
Posts: 3,169
And1: 4,677
Joined: Apr 16, 2015
 

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1293 » by DeKobe DeBryant » Wed Jan 4, 2017 1:48 am

jangles86 wrote:John Wall eastern conference player of the month for December.

Also was last years decembers player of the month.

Wall is incredibly underrated on this board. He has gone past CP3 as 3rd best point guard.


First of all, Paul is the 4th best point guard in the league. Curry, Westbrook, and Harden are top 3.

Secondly, Wall isn't even the best PG in the East.
Image

- Credit to TurboZone for the signature!
dreamshake
Starter
Posts: 2,295
And1: 2,481
Joined: May 13, 2014
     

Re: RE: Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1294 » by dreamshake » Wed Jan 4, 2017 3:44 am

K_chile22 wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Eric Gordon is having his best eFG% season by 4.4%, and is 5 threes short of his career high, in the 36th game.

Ryan Anderson is 0.1% from his career high, from six years ago.

James Harden is certainly making them better, but is getting discredited for it, because he's making them look so good.


Who's discrediting him? He makes players around him better, there's no disputing that. I'm saying his supporting cast is better than Westbrook's. Compare some of the contributors on each roster; I'd take the rockets supporting cast all day.

Oladipo, Roberson, Kanter, Adams, Sabonis, Grant, Ilyasova
vs
Ariza, Pat Bev, Ryno, Gordon, Capella, Dekker, Harrell

No one, outside of Rockets fans, said this before this season started.


Are you serious? Not a Rockets fan at all, but I would easily take that Rockets supporting cast over OKC's assuming equal health. Would've said that before the season as well no question. The difference in perimeter shooting especially is just night and day and I didn't need to see the start of the season to know that.
miman15
Senior
Posts: 538
And1: 449
Joined: Dec 23, 2015
 

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1295 » by miman15 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 4:12 am

Its Harden leading by a comfortable margin. Its hard to make a case against him. The only way for Harden to lose this is if the Rockets fall from the standings. I dont think his production will slow down.
User avatar
red96
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,226
And1: 2,393
Joined: Oct 09, 2008
Location: Where hope is still alive.

Re: RE: Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1296 » by red96 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 5:18 am

dreamshake wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:
Who's discrediting him? He makes players around him better, there's no disputing that. I'm saying his supporting cast is better than Westbrook's. Compare some of the contributors on each roster; I'd take the rockets supporting cast all day.

Oladipo, Roberson, Kanter, Adams, Sabonis, Grant, Ilyasova
vs
Ariza, Pat Bev, Ryno, Gordon, Capella, Dekker, Harrell

No one, outside of Rockets fans, said this before this season started.


Are you serious? Not a Rockets fan at all, but I would easily take that Rockets supporting cast over OKC's assuming equal health. Would've said that before the season as well no question. The difference in perimeter shooting especially is just night and day and I didn't need to see the start of the season to know that.
You may have felt that way but the general census wasn't so optimistic.
5 analyst's from CBS Sports gave the Rockets an average of 44 wins and the Thunder 45.
Bleacher report 42 wins 46 Thunder
fivethirtyeight.com 45 50
ESPN 41 44
Vegas 43 45
Fox Sports 41 45
USA Today 40 44

All of them had the Rockets as a borderline .500, 8th seed at best team before the season with the Thunder being around 4 games better. Either they felt that Harden had superior talent around him, but Westbrook was so superior to Harden that it would make up the difference (and then some), or that the Thunder's roster and star player were just as talented as the Rockets if not more. I think the latter is more likely.
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
-baki "the Rockets fan"
User avatar
red96
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,226
And1: 2,393
Joined: Oct 09, 2008
Location: Where hope is still alive.

Re: RE: Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1297 » by red96 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 5:21 am

dreamshake wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:
Who's discrediting him? He makes players around him better, there's no disputing that. I'm saying his supporting cast is better than Westbrook's. Compare some of the contributors on each roster; I'd take the rockets supporting cast all day.

Oladipo, Roberson, Kanter, Adams, Sabonis, Grant, Ilyasova
vs
Ariza, Pat Bev, Ryno, Gordon, Capella, Dekker, Harrell

No one, outside of Rockets fans, said this before this season started.


Are you serious? Not a Rockets fan at all, but I would easily take that Rockets supporting cast over OKC's assuming equal health. Would've said that before the season as well no question. The difference in perimeter shooting especially is just night and day and I didn't need to see the start of the season to know that.
You may have felt that way but the general census wasn't so optimistic.
5 analyst's from CBS Sports gave the Rockets an average of 44 wins and the Thunder 45.
Bleacher report 42 wins 46 Thunder
fivethirtyeight.com 45 50
ESPN 41 44
Vegas 43 45
Fox Sports 41 45
USA Today 40 44

All of them had the Rockets as a borderline .500, 8th seed at best team before the season with the Thunder being around 4 games better. Either they felt that Harden had superior talent around him, but Westbrook was so superior to Harden that it would make up the difference (and then some), or that the Thunder's roster and star player were just as talented as the Rockets if not more. I think the latter is more likely. How many people raved about Harrell, Dekker, and Capela before the season?
"Morey decided in 2007 that Steve Francis was to be the "franchise player" of the Rockets only to play what... 5 games? Morey didn't think Marc Gasol was worth a look that year,"
-baki "the Rockets fan"
Rastas
Starter
Posts: 2,488
And1: 1,195
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: RE: Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1298 » by Rastas » Wed Jan 4, 2017 5:58 am

K_chile22 wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:Also: entering the Pelicans game last night, Cavs have league's best win percentage and 2nd toughest schedule in games LeBron has played.

https://m.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5llxjb/in_the_29_games_in_which_lebron_has_played_this/

Have a hard time giving LeBron extra points for missing games.


You say this but I bet you wish he sits out a few more.

At seasons end - team wins will determine which player gets the MVP.

At the moment it's Harden but things can change.
dreamshake
Starter
Posts: 2,295
And1: 2,481
Joined: May 13, 2014
     

Re: RE: Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1299 » by dreamshake » Wed Jan 4, 2017 6:13 am

red96 wrote:
dreamshake wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:No one, outside of Rockets fans, said this before this season started.


Are you serious? Not a Rockets fan at all, but I would easily take that Rockets supporting cast over OKC's assuming equal health. Would've said that before the season as well no question. The difference in perimeter shooting especially is just night and day and I didn't need to see the start of the season to know that.
You may have felt that way but the general census wasn't so optimistic.
5 analyst's from CBS Sports gave the Rockets an average of 44 wins and the Thunder 45.
Bleacher report 42 wins 46 Thunder
fivethirtyeight.com 45 50
ESPN 41 44
Vegas 43 45
Fox Sports 41 45
USA Today 40 44

All of them had the Rockets as a borderline .500, 8th seed at best team before the season with the Thunder being around 4 games better. Either they felt that Harden had superior talent around him, but Westbrook was so superior to Harden that it would make up the difference (and then some), or that the Thunder's roster and star player were just as talented as the Rockets if not more. I think the latter is more likely. How many people raved about Harrell, Dekker, and Capela before the season?


1. I think Harden has been a lot better than people expected after his previous season.

2. Gordon and Ryan Anderson have been very injury-prone and I think a lot of people were counting on less than full seasons from them, which may still be true. OKC's team is younger and doesn't have the injury history that those guys do, yet so far it's one of their best players (Oladipo) who has already missed 9 games. Which is why I qualified my statement with "assuming equal health".

3. Many people expected Houston to have one of (if not THE) worst defenses in the league. Instead they've been about league-average and only about 1.5pts/100 poss worse than OKC's. This is likely the biggest reason for them overperforming relative to expectations. And I think a lot of that is due to effort given relative to previous seasons by Harden (more than expected) and Westbrook (less than expected).

4. Capela in particular was talked about plenty before this season. He was already pretty good last year and his improvement this year isn't surprising considering he's only 22. I don't know why you're mentioning those 3 guys as if Gordon, Anderson, Ariza and Beverly don't exist.

Houston is #5 in the league in 3P% and OKC is #29. And Houston takes almost TWICE as many (#1 in the league). That's a massive difference in the area of the game that is driving the league right now. Houston just flat out has better shooters and that was blatantly obvious before the season. I don't see why that's controversial.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#1300 » by bondom34 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 7:52 am

Yeah where Houston has surprised (as a team) has been health and defense.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO

Return to The General Board