NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

moderndarwin · Post #1281 » by **moderndarwin** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:44 am

Steph going to get the Warriors in full high speed mode ASG and beyond. Get ready.

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #1282 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:55 am

liquidswords wrote:Is that a serious question? The Bucks were #1 in the East both of Giannis's MVP years, Rockets were #1 in West during Harden's MVP year, same with Steph's 2nd MVP. That's just recent history. And there have been talk tracks by analysts around giving Tatum the MVP because he's the best player on the best team. Its like a default for ESPN.

it has always been a combination of "how valuable are you for your team" and "how good your team is".

_NoMas · Post #1283 » by **_NoMas** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:14 am

Bucks fans were trying to make the argument that Giannis was carrying a team of a similar standard to Jokic/Nuggets last year - and that the Bucks without Giannis would be the worst team in the league… now 6-4 when missing their number 1 AND 2 guys.

It’s a 3 horse race:

Jokic

Luka
Tatum

Anyone else either hasn’t played consistently enough to the level of the above 3 (Ja, Donovan etc), or has/ will miss too many games (Embiid, KD, Giannis)

styLesdavis · Post #1284 » by **styLesdavis** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:23 am

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
liquidswords wrote:Is that a serious question? The Bucks were #1 in the East both of Giannis's MVP years, Rockets were #1 in West during Harden's MVP year, same with Steph's 2nd MVP. That's just recent history. And there have been talk tracks by analysts around giving Tatum the MVP because he's the best player on the best team. Its like a default for ESPN.

it has always been a combination of "how valuable are you for your team" and "how good your team is".

100% this.

Been watching the NBA since the early 90s and in terms of "winning" it was always the sense that your team has to win 50+ games in a season to be considered MVP. Of course there always were MVPs with less wins (Pettit, M. Malone) but in recent decades there was already this kind of rule till Westbrook won it with less wins (LeBron did it in 11/12 with a shortened season).

To just give the MVP to the best player on the best team is rediculous. Boston is such a good team itself and Tatum even got someone like Brown on his squad who should be considered Top 10 himself this season. It is not Lukas fault that he has no help. To put it simply: there is no all-star beside him on the mavs roster. Harden, Maxey and T. Harris would all be the clear cut 2nd best player on the mavs.

B-easy · Post #1285 » by **B-easy** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:26 am

Tatum can still win it. I think a lot of voters don't look at efficiency and advanced stats. If there is enough distance between Denver and Boston they will look at 31/8/4 and give it to him.

Oscar9992 · Post #1286 » by **Oscar9992** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:34 am

Right now it's Jokic & it's not even close

AleksandarN · Post #1287 » by **AleksandarN** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:43 am

We are witnessing a historic season from Jokic. Jokic must lead in the league not since Wilt stats it is crazy what this guy is doing. He needs chips to solidify his place among the all time greats. Potential top 10 player ever if he gets three rings. Will he do it? I don’t know but to be one of the best you must win.

Read on Twitter

AleksandarN · Post #1288 » by **AleksandarN** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:55 am

Read on Twitter

Sharkboy242 · Post #1289 » by **Sharkboy242** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:47 am

B-easy wrote:Tatum can still win it. I think a lot of voters don't look at efficiency and advanced stats. If there is enough distance between Denver and Boston they will look at 31/8/4 and give it to him.

I don't think its right to say that they don't look at those things. The voter pool changes and maybe 10 years ago this was accurate, but I'd say the vast majority do take these things into account.

A triple double for a center who lead his team to first in the West will basically seal it for Jokic.

BelgradeNugget · Post #1290 » by **BelgradeNugget** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:55 am

Read on Twitter

Cubbies2120 · Post #1291 » by **Cubbies2120** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:20 pm

eyeatoma wrote:If Sixers can somehow get the 1st seed this will be very interesting. Even with the missed games, he's close to Giannis who is still +500.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Which of Jokic/Luka/Tatum would be injured in this scenario?

Embiid has missed 11 games ALREADY. There has been 1 MVP in last 45 years who missed greater than 10 (that MVP missed 11 exactly).

If Jokic wasn't putting up the godly performances like last night, and Luka didn't have superior stats as well, and Tatum didn't have the best record in the East, then maybe the missed games wouldn't matter.

Here are the current odds as of this moment on DraftKings (keep in mind Jokic was +2800 a little over month ago):

Jokic +115 (ALMOST EVEN ODDS!!)
Doncic +275
Tatum +475
Giannis +900
Embiid +1100

Jokic was trending significantly upward. It would take an injury or a DRASTIC fall off in team performance for him to fall out of the top spot now.

LessEyeTest · Post #1292 » by **LessEyeTest** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:39 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:If Sixers can somehow get the 1st seed this will be very interesting. Even with the missed games, he's close to Giannis who is still +500.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Which of Jokic/Luka/Tatum would be injured in this scenario?

Embiid has missed 11 games ALREADY. There has been 1 MVP in last 45 years who missed greater than 10 (that MVP missed 11 exactly).

If Jokic wasn't putting up the godly performances like last night, and Luka didn't have superior stats as well, and Tatum didn't have the best record in the East, then maybe the missed games wouldn't matter.

Here are the current odds as of this moment on DraftKings (keep in mind Jokic was +2800 a little over month ago):

Jokic +115 (ALMOST EVEN ODDS!!)
Doncic +275
Tatum +475
Giannis +900
Embiid +1100

Jokic was trending significantly upward. It would take an injury or a DRASTIC fall off in team performance for him to fall out of the top spot now.

It’s eyeatoma, we ignore trolls lol

eyeatoma · Post #1293 » by **eyeatoma** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:47 pm

LessEyeTest wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:If Sixers can somehow get the 1st seed this will be very interesting. Even with the missed games, he's close to Giannis who is still +500.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Which of Jokic/Luka/Tatum would be injured in this scenario?

Embiid has missed 11 games ALREADY. There has been 1 MVP in last 45 years who missed greater than 10 (that MVP missed 11 exactly).

If Jokic wasn't putting up the godly performances like last night, and Luka didn't have superior stats as well, and Tatum didn't have the best record in the East, then maybe the missed games wouldn't matter.

Here are the current odds as of this moment on DraftKings (keep in mind Jokic was +2800 a little over month ago):

Jokic +115 (ALMOST EVEN ODDS!!)
Doncic +275
Tatum +475
Giannis +900
Embiid +1100

Jokic was trending significantly upward. It would take an injury or a DRASTIC fall off in team performance for him to fall out of the top spot now.

It’s eyeatoma, we ignore trolls lol

Lol ok buddy.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

GeorgeSears · Post #1294 » by **GeorgeSears** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:50 pm

Kurtz wrote:Current betting odds (bet365):

Joker +150
Luka +225
Tatum + 450
Giannis +550
Embiid +1400

I think Giannis is going to end up missing too many games - Bud will be resting him plenty. So it will come down to the other 4.

Embiid has already missed 11 and will no doubt miss even more. He's out too.

I do think Tatum deserves to be higher.

ITYSL · Post #1295 » by **ITYSL** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:49 pm

B-easy wrote:Tatum can still win it. I think a lot of voters don't look at efficiency and advanced stats. If there is enough distance between Denver and Boston they will look at 31/8/4 and give it to him.

Yeah, people are talking as if Tatum is having some so-so season, which isn't the case at all. Right now, in my eyes, Jokic is the clear MVP frontrunner. Below him, there are several that are on the next tier. The poll results mostly reflect that.

liquidswords · Post #1296 » by **liquidswords** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:26 pm

CoP wrote:
liquidswords wrote:
CoP wrote:There's not much evidence that this is how the national media thinks. The Nuggets were not the best team the last two seasons, but Jokic won MVP. The Bucks were the previous two seasons but Giannis was a legit MVP candidate. When is the last time someone was voted MVP largely because they were the best player on the best team, rather than being a legit MVP candidate?

Is that a serious question? The Bucks were #1 in the East both of Giannis's MVP years, Rockets were #1 in West during Harden's MVP year, same with Steph's 2nd MVP. That's just recent history. And there have been talk tracks by analysts around giving Tatum the MVP because he's the best player on the best team. Its like a default for ESPN.

Also, the game has changed. Tatum's numbers, albeit great, are pedestrian compared to what Luka, Jokic and Embiid are putting up. That's the unfortunate part. I think Brown's emergence as one of, if not, the best #2 in the league hurts Tatum as well.

Did you not understand my question? When was the last time an MVP won largely because he was the best player on the best team, and NOT because he was a legit MVP candidate?

Thats a basic assumption lol you have to be on a good team to be in the MVP conversation but the national media default is to elevate players on the best teams (like top 2 in each conference.) I think its incredibly lazy to do that unless that player on the "best" team is, at the very least, putting up numbers/efficiency on par with the other top tier candidates. Tatum is clearly a level below Jokic, Luka and even Embiid this year. What those other 3 guys are doing is unprecedented so that has to be the tipping point for voters. And surprise they are all on good teams.
Also, the media won't dare talk about how improved Jaylen Brown is or how offensively deep the Celtics are this year. Its literally all about Tatum lol

Jadoogar · Post #1297 » by **Jadoogar** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:34 pm

lol Jokic just casually put up 36/12/10 on 13/14 from the field and 9/10 from the line. If he wasn't the reigning MVP, we wouldn't even be having a discussion.

mademan · Post #1298 » by **mademan** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:35 pm

Jokic is breaking basketball. This is ridiculous to watch

Jailblazers7 · Post #1299 » by **Jailblazers7** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:21 pm

Jokic is the clear front runner he’s been amazing. I think Tatum is the only one who has a chance to overtake him if he puts up some crazy numbers post-ASG & Celtics cement themselves as best team in the NBA.

The reason I’d give Embiid a glimmer of hope is that the Sixers have the hardest remaining SOS which means they’ll be on national TV a lot from now until April, including a Sat afternoon ABC game against Jokic. If he stays healthy, Sixers keep winning, & he keeps putting up casual 40 point games he’ll start getting a lot of buzz.

ITYSL · Post #1300 » by **ITYSL** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:50 pm

liquidswords wrote:Thats a basic assumption lol you have to be on a good team to be in the MVP conversation but the national media default is to elevate players on the best teams (like top 2 in each conference.) I think its incredibly lazy to do that unless that player on the "best" team is, at the very least, putting up numbers/efficiency on par with the other top tier candidates. Tatum is clearly a level below Jokic, Luka and even Embiid this year. What those other 3 guys are doing is unprecedented so that has to be the tipping point for voters. And surprise they are all on good teams.
Also, the media won't dare talk about how improved Jaylen Brown is or how offensively deep the Celtics are this year. Its literally all about Tatum lol

He is putting up numbers/efficiency on par with the other top tier candidates, except for Jokic

Jokic: 25/11/10, 69.8% TS
Luka: 34/9/9, 60.8% TS
Tatum: 31/8/4, 61.3% TS

Jokic a tier above? Yes. The rest? Nope. Tatum is not clearly below either Luka or Embiid. Tatum has had career-high numbers across the board while also having career-high efficiency, is 3rd in ppg and plays elite defense. He's 1st in RPM and RPM Wins, 3rd in LEBRON and LEBRON WAR, and 3rd in RAPM. He's a legit MVP candidate, get over it and stop crying about the media.

Who is your current NBA MVP? (listed alphabetically)