2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West Semifinals: #1 Oklahoma City Thunder vs #4 Denver Nuggets (Series tied 3-3)

[SalsaNchips]

Pressure is on okc, they are the title favorites and many had Denver dead in the water when they fired the head coach.

[pepe1991]

People really question how stacked OKC is?

Chet- DPOY candidate when healthy ( actually probably 2# behind Victor)
J Will - all star
Dort - elite wing defender
Caruzo- one of best POA defenders in nba, if not the best
I Hart- one of best passing Cs nba has

Bench of Wiggins, Joe, Wallace, Jaylin Williams.

That last guy, Jaylin Williams, who's OKCs 10th best player, would be 6-7th best player on Nuggets.

Having a great defensive team is nice and dandy, but every team picks up their defensive effort in the playoffs. Ind and Denver for example. What usually separates teams in the playoffs is tough shot makers, and guys who can execute at a high level in half court offense. Outside of SGA, I don’t trust anybody on OKC to do that.


Depth and youth matter more in the regular season. Veterans, tough shot makers and guys who can create for themselves and others matters more in postseason.

Still, overall level of talent between Nuggets and OKC is pointless to debate.
OKC has better players in pretty much all positions but C, and their deep bench is still better than Nuggets rotation bench.

Nuggets on regular bases have 6 functional nba bodies to even consider playing. Strawther one good game doesn't change it, especially with hobbling Porter that hardly looks playable.

Whole concept of difficult shot making from Nuggets still comes from Jokić masterful pick&rolls with Jamal, where teams can't trap or send double team because Jokić will make passes on dunker's spot or find wide open corner 3s.
Jamal hasn't even been that good in this series. He played much better vs Clippers ( again, because OKC has best perimeter defenders in nba).

[Bergmaniac]

Jokic is still the best player in the world, but this series confirms to me that SGA was the MVP this year. He really dropped 33/5/6 and won 68 games with these cats. Chet didn't even play half the season. This Thunder team is NOT stacked and had absolutely no business sniffing close to 68 wins.

Defensively they are def stacked wdym

They could well be the most stacked team ever on the defensive side of the ball. Without any doubt if we are talking about perimeter defenders. Caruso, Wallace, JDub and Dort on the same team is absurd, and all of them in their athletic prime. SGA is at best their fifth best perimeter defender and he is well above average on that end. Then they have a big man rotation of Chet, Hartenstein and JWill who are all very good to great defenders.

And they are doing really well on that end in the series, 105.9 DRTG against the best offensive player in the league and one of the best offenses. Their problem is on the other end, their offense has been pretty bad outisde of the Game 2 blowout. Yesterday in the second half they couldn't score against a Denver defence which had been mediocre all season and in this game had Murray clearly nowhere near 100% and Strawther, a guy who is lost on defence more often than not (though he looked better than I expected last night), playing major minutes.

Anyway, another gutsy win for Denver yesterday, Strawther's contribnution was huge, I was really impressed with Murray's performance under the circumstances, Braun with another big game and Jokic was great of course. They keep getting it done somehow. Hopefully AG's hamstring will be OK for Game 7 otherwise it won't be much of a contest sadly.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Being called for 12 more fouls certainly a factor here that isn’t getting enough credit

OKC fouls more. We all have been talking about this for weeks before this series.

It’s about time they called it more. OKC should always get more foul calls with the hacking they do.

Maybe but the difference here was Jokic committing a ton of fouls that he didn’t get called for. He should’ve easily had 4 at the half. The reffing was worse last night than any game of this series so far.

OKC definitely lost this game, but the refs didn’t do them any favors, and did a few for Joker.

[Ssj16]

So did Jokic get enough help tonight?

Seems like all the games the Nuggets lose it's always his teammates fault. When they win it's not a issue lol.

Excuses...

Can you name an all star on the Nuggets outside of Jokic. I'll wait.

What's with the simplistic view? Nuggets have a good team, there have been games where Jokic fumbled the bag but more often than not, Jokic shows up and you have to worry about whether his teammates are going to show up.

I hate to bring this up again but you were the dude who said Luka and Lebron were gonna make the finals. Just want to make sure you are keeping the same energy with those 2.

[ballzboyee]

People really question how stacked OKC is?

Chet- DPOY candidate when healthy ( actually probably 2# behind Victor)
J Will - all star
Dort - elite wing defender
Caruzo- one of best POA defenders in nba, if not the best
I Hart- one of best passing Cs nba has

Bench of Wiggins, Joe, Wallace, Jaylin Williams.

That last guy, Jaylin Williams, who's OKCs 10th best player, would be 6-7th best player on Nuggets.

Having a great defensive team is nice and dandy, but every team picks up their defensive effort in the playoffs. Ind and Denver for example. What usually separates teams in the playoffs is tough shot makers, and guys who can execute at a high level in half court offense. Outside of SGA, I don’t trust anybody on OKC to do that.


Depth and youth matter more in the regular season. Veterans, tough shot makers and guys who can create for themselves and others matters more in postseason.

Exactly. In the playoffs your great defense gets cancelled by the other teams great defense. We saw last night that when Shai got into foul trouble, OKC lacked a natural playmaker and facilitator. They don't have a real setup man in my opinion. So much of their offense is just their MVP freelancing in iso. Caruso for all his great defensive pressure and ability create chaos doesn't seem have the confidence of the coaching staff to play at PG. He's not great at rim finishing and iso creation. He's a 3&D guy off the bench at the end of day. If they are going to play Caruso starter minutes, then he should be their PG unless you are just runningi iso with SGA.

Denver is running a methodical playoff offense by putting Jokic in the deep post and running dribble handoffs/high ball screen action. Denver got quality offensive possessions most of the game. OKC got garbage looks all night and forced some ugly shots.

[hardenASG13]

So did Jokic get enough help tonight?

Seems like all the games the Nuggets lose it's always his teammates fault. When they win it's not a issue lol.

Excuses...

Can you name an all star on the Nuggets outside of Jokic. I'll wait.

What's with the simplistic view? Nuggets have a good team, there have been games where Jokic fumbled the bag but more often than not, Jokic shows up and you have to worry about whether his teammates are going to show up.

I hate to bring this up again but you were the dude who said Luka and Lebron were gonna make the finals. Just want to make sure you are keeping the same energy with those 2.

The point is that Denver/Jokic fans complain excessively about his supporting cast, i barely see anything about OKCs. Jalen Williams was an all star due to team record, not his play. He hasn't been better than Jamal Murray. So far in his career he's struggled heavily against playoff defense. Brauns been better than any of OKCs role players (he's gonna make a lot of money in this league), Gordon has been as good or better than Holmgren. Depth is nice, but Joe, Wiggins, and Dort aren't exactly lighting thr world on fire. OKC has really underwhelmed against that simple zone for what they were hyped to be.

[Bergmaniac]

I think the Thunder got a lot of good looks last night, but couldn't make them at a decent clip. They were 6/20 on wide open 3s which is awful. And it's not like these 3s were taken by non-shooters, it was mostly Dort, Chet, Wiggins and JDub, all of whom are supposed to be good shooters and shot over 36% on high volume from 3 in the regular season.

But also, the whole "Jokic has never played with an All-Star" argument is dumb, playoff Murray is better than a lot of all-stars, so is this year's AG. Jokic is awesome, but he isn't doing everything himself.

[ohmuri]

What happened to the Jokic is terrible at defense crowd? I don’t hear much about it now.

As a team I was mostly worried about Denver's defense this POs. Not their best regular-season, but their offense had still been one of the best in the league. In the other hand, defense had been really terrible all year long and they didn't seem capable of improving it. It looked like they were not gonna be able to compete bleeding 130 points regularly.

Flashforward 13 matches into POs and some days better some worse defense has stood pretty well, it feels like the deciding factor into their Ws and Ls is the offensive execution. And as per you point, in all these years the only round you could say they lost while being terrible in defense was against the NBA champions Warriors when they had Campazzo, Morris, Forbes etc. trying to contain Curry.

[GeorgeSears]

Wonder if they'll award the MVP before the game or just hold off until Conference Finals.

[ohmuri]

Wonder if they'll award the MVP before the game or just hold off until Conference Finals.

Seems like they don't wanna give it while they're playing each other, but damn wouldn't it be A+ drama and TV-show having it before game 7 begins.

[SpurNani]

People really question how stacked OKC is?

Chet- DPOY candidate when healthy ( actually probably 2# behind Victor)
J Will - all star
Dort - elite wing defender
Caruzo- one of best POA defenders in nba, if not the best
I Hart- one of best passing Cs nba has

Bench of Wiggins, Joe, Wallace, Jaylin Williams.

That last guy, Jaylin Williams, who's OKCs 10th best player, would be 6-7th best player on Nuggets.

Having a great defensive team is nice and dandy, but every team picks up their defensive effort in the playoffs. Ind and Denver for example. What usually separates teams in the playoffs is tough shot makers, and guys who can execute at a high level in half court offense. Outside of SGA, I don’t trust anybody on OKC to do that.


Depth and youth matter more in the regular season. Veterans, tough shot makers and guys who can create for themselves and others matters more in postseason.

Still, overall level of talent between Nuggets and OKC is pointless to debate.
OKC has better players in pretty much all positions but C, and their deep bench is still better than Nuggets rotation bench.

Nuggets on regular bases have 6 functional nba bodies to even consider playing. Strawther one good game doesn't change it, especially with hobbling Porter that hardly looks playable.

Whole concept of difficult shot making from Nuggets still comes from Jokić masterful pick&rolls with Jamal, where teams can't trap or send double team because Jokić will make passes on dunker's spot or find wide open corner 3s.
Jamal hasn't even been that good in this series. He played much better vs Clippers ( again, because OKC has best perimeter defenders in nba).

Im not saying OKC isn’t more overall talented. They absolutely are and it would be a massive disappointment for them if they dont win the series. Just saying in the playoffs depth matters less and tough shot making and creation becomes most important skill to have. Defensive intensity raises, refs tend to let more stuff go especially this year, role players turn into pumpkins. Games are mucked up and most come down to the wire, and when they do, Denver suddenly has the advantage. Denver has the best offensive player and shot creator in the game in Jokic. The 2 man game with Murray when he’s on is still the most deadly and unstoppable combination in the league.

OKC has SGA and not much else when it’s nut crunch time. Chet is a great young player but he has no go to post moves yet and his jumper comes and goes. JDub is a good young player but has failed massively in back to back playoffs to be the Robin to Shai. He is not better or more reliable than Jamal Murray come playoff time so just listing him as an Allstar is kind of disingenuous when he has not met that standard in back to back years. Hartenstein has a nice floater that he’ll make 3-4 times a game and he can pass. Caruso, Dort and Wallace are all terrific defenders but they are all guys who get purposely left wide open that Denver considers it a win if they are shooting. None of those guys are what i consider to be good connective playmakers either. Like i cringe whenever Dort or Wallace have to put the ball on the floor and try to make a move or pass the ball.

Im not saying we should feel sorry for Shai or OKC, because they are more talented overall and should still win the series. I’m just saying the makeup of OKCs roster has some serious flaws come playoff time that have been exposed for the last two years.

It’s what has made this series so fascinating. OKC should have the advantage for the first 37-40 minutes but if its close, the advantage shifts massively to Denver.

[ballzboyee]

I think the Thunder got a lot of good looks last night, but couldn't make them at a decent clip. They were 6/20 on wide open 3s which is awful. And it's not like these 3s were taken by non-shooters, it was mostly Dort, Chet, Wiggins and JDub, all of whom are supposed to be good shooters and shot over 36% on high volume from 3 in the regular season.

But also, the whole "Jokic has never played with an All-Star" argument is dumb, playoff Murray is better than a lot of all-stars, so is this year's AG. Jokic is awesome, but he isn't doing everything himself.

Depends on what you mean by "wide open." How many of those looks were simply bailouts and pullups without running an offensive set? Was the shooter expecting the ball? Did he get it in his spot based on the analytics? These teams track every shot attempt and make. Did the attempt come off a screen or clear out? Were his teammates expecting a good look out of a set so they could crash the boards? Denver was doing all of these things on offense last night. A lot of their offensive rebounds are predicated off knowing who is going to take the shot and therefore being in position to close out. If the defense is blowing up your penetration and you have to settle for a random kickout that happens to be open that does not mean that you got a quality look. The defense is will give you that look if they can stop your initial set. The defense will live with the percentages. Another example is If you have pg who who just randomly attempts several wide-open pullups from 3p without running the offense. This happens all the time in the regular season. Are those heat checks good looks at this stage of the season? Probably not in the playoffs. Even if they got some wide-open attempts, I don't buy that OKC got good looks last night.

[CobraCommander]

Pressure is on okc, they are the title favorites and many had Denver dead in the water when they fired the head coach.

This doesn’t bode well for the coaching profession


Jokic is the coach now

[CobraCommander]

Wonder if they'll award the MVP before the game or just hold off until Conference Finals.

Seems like they don't wanna give it while they're playing each other, but damn wouldn't it be A+ drama and TV-show having it before game 7 begins.

It would be better if they started their game off by saying the winner of this game gets the MVP

[MoneyTalks41890]

I think the Thunder got a lot of good looks last night, but couldn't make them at a decent clip. They were 6/20 on wide open 3s which is awful. And it's not like these 3s were taken by non-shooters, it was mostly Dort, Chet, Wiggins and JDub, all of whom are supposed to be good shooters and shot over 36% on high volume from 3 in the regular season.

But also, the whole "Jokic has never played with an All-Star" argument is dumb, playoff Murray is better than a lot of all-stars, so is this year's AG. Jokic is awesome, but he isn't doing everything himself.

Depends on what you mean by "wide open." How many of those looks were simply bailouts and pullups without running an offensive set? Was the shooter expecting the ball? Did he get it in his spot based on the analytics? These teams track every shot attempt and make. Did the attempt come off a screen or clear out? Were his teammates expecting a good look out of a set so they could crash the boards? Denver was doing all of these things on offense last night. A lot of their offensive rebounds are predicated off knowing who is going to take the shot and therefore being in position to close out. If the defense is blowing up your penetration and you have to settle for a random kickout that happens to be open that does not mean that you got a quality look. The defense is will give you that look if they can stop your initial set. The defense will live with the percentages. Another example is If you have pg who who just randomly attempts several wide-open pullups from 3p without running the offense. This happens all the time in the regular season. Are those heat checks good looks at this stage of the season? Probably not in the playoffs. Even if they got some wide-open attempts, I don't buy that OKC got good looks last night.

Seems like maybe you didn’t watch it because yes OKC had a lot of completely wide open threes off of sets that just clanked.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Wonder if they'll award the MVP before the game or just hold off until Conference Finals.

Seems like they don't wanna give it while they're playing each other, but damn wouldn't it be A+ drama and TV-show having it before game 7 begins.

It would be better if they started their game off by saying the winner of this game gets the MVP

I support this. Screw it.

[CobraCommander]

Seems like they don't wanna give it while they're playing each other, but damn wouldn't it be A+ drama and TV-show having it before game 7 begins.

It would be better if they started their game off by saying the winner of this game gets the MVP

I support this. Screw it.

Btw you can love SGA, Be from OKC, be SGAs family member and think with an objective and honest heart that SGA is the mvp this year, but no one thinks anyone is at better basketball player than Jokic… not even SGA

[ballzboyee]

I think the Thunder got a lot of good looks last night, but couldn't make them at a decent clip. They were 6/20 on wide open 3s which is awful. And it's not like these 3s were taken by non-shooters, it was mostly Dort, Chet, Wiggins and JDub, all of whom are supposed to be good shooters and shot over 36% on high volume from 3 in the regular season.

But also, the whole "Jokic has never played with an All-Star" argument is dumb, playoff Murray is better than a lot of all-stars, so is this year's AG. Jokic is awesome, but he isn't doing everything himself.

Depends on what you mean by "wide open." How many of those looks were simply bailouts and pullups without running an offensive set? Was the shooter expecting the ball? Did he get it in his spot based on the analytics? These teams track every shot attempt and make. Did the attempt come off a screen or clear out? Were his teammates expecting a good look out of a set so they could crash the boards? Denver was doing all of these things on offense last night. A lot of their offensive rebounds are predicated off knowing who is going to take the shot and therefore being in position to close out. If the defense is blowing up your penetration and you have to settle for a random kickout that happens to be open that does not mean that you got a quality look. The defense is will give you that look if they can stop your initial set. The defense will live with the percentages. Another example is If you have pg who who just randomly attempts several wide-open pullups from 3p without running the offense. This happens all the time in the regular season. Are those heat checks good looks at this stage of the season? Probably not in the playoffs. Even if they got some wide-open attempts, I don't buy that OKC got good looks last night.

Seems like maybe you didn’t watch it because yes OKC had a lot of completely wide open threes off of sets that just clanked.

Watched the whole game. OKC's offense without Shai is ugly. No creativity. OKC's coaching was garbage.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

People really question how stacked OKC is?

Chet- DPOY candidate when healthy ( actually probably 2# behind Victor)
J Will - all star
Dort - elite wing defender
Caruzo- one of best POA defenders in nba, if not the best
I Hart- one of best passing Cs nba has

Bench of Wiggins, Joe, Wallace, Jaylin Williams.

That last guy, Jaylin Williams, who's OKCs 10th best player, would be 6-7th best player on Nuggets.

Jwill would be the ideal Jokic backup center