RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[Iwasawitness]

I do remember that.

I also remember when Lebron nearly had a failure just as bad as 2011, but then Chris Bosh got a rebound and Ray Allen forced OT from a loss with a 3 pointer at the buzzer. I also remember Kyrie averaging nearly 30 and coming through in the clutch over and over against the Warriors. It truly is a team game.

If scoring 17 points in the final quarter is defined as 'nearly having a failure' then he really must be your GOAT.

I remember his stats for that series, at that time, being abysmal. In all fairness, he went on and played great for the rest of the series, but it was 2011'eque until then.

So nope, not my goat!

Tell us you didn’t watch the series without telling us you didn’t watch the series.

[Iwasawitness]

Your post just shows your ignorence and lack of basketball knowledge.

Hershey Hawkins in his *sophmore* year was second leading scorer of 53 wins team led by Barkley and went to second round of playoffs, in playoffs he averaged 23,5 ppg.
In his allstar season, he was 13# in scoring . Do you know who is 13# scorer in 2023-24. Lebron

RIcky Pierce was pretty much modern day Ginobili. Instant offense from bench and microvawe scorer.
At age of 33 he was *leading scorer of 55 wins team that went to nba Western Conference Finals* . Guy is one of best 6th men's in nba history.

Danny Manning - literally made allstar as 10th best scorer that year - 10th scorer this year, well that tall chubby guy named Nikola ( not Vučević lol )

Cliff Robinson , for start guy averaged 18 or more times - 8 seasons, 20 ppg - 3 seasons. Guy was all second nba team member, 6th man of a year, got DPOY votes and lasted 17 seasons, going from 1989 to late 2000s, crossing 3 decades, playing ECF and nba finals ( twice, once even as a rookie). Guy was 36 and started on 55 wins PIstons. You make it sound like guy is some random nobody.


Ced Ceballos was leading scorer on 1995 Lakers that went to second round and won 48 games. Always enough to be allstar

Non of this guy comes close as bad as allstar Cris Kaman, guy who was allstar by averaging 18 ppg on 29 wins team OR Gerald Wallace who played 33 playoff games in his entire career .
Only trully bad allstar you picked is BJ Armstrong, but even he was on Jordanless Bulls and won 55 games. Still not as bad as damn Kaman allstar.


Lebron also joined one of his biggest rivals , who already won championship without him.
Just year before Lebron joined Heat this is what Wade , individually achived :
- 5th in MVP votes
- all nba first team
- defensive second team
- all defensive second team
- 10th in DPOY

Heat won 47 games

Year BEFORE that, Wade was 3rd in MVP race

Lebron made GOAT race all about ring count, created player's movment, hooped from one team to another, 20 years later still can't catch Jordan's rings. Despite fact he played with multiple players who were considered top 10 ( or even top 5 ) in that moment.

So much fail in your post. Comparing Ricky Pierce to Manu Ginobili is bad enough , then you had the audacity to assert that LeBron was playing with prime Wade his entire time in Miami (hint WAde was definitely not top 10 post 2011). What other top ten players had he played with outside of Anthony Davis in 2020? Please enlighten us.

Your propping up an era that had Vin Baker and Juwan Howard make all-nba teams and then call my basketball knowledge ignorant.

nba allstar game 2010 had 5 out of 10 allstars STARTERS from 1990s:
Kobe
Duncan
Nash
Kevin Garnet
Iverson

But that's not all, in resevers there were : Kidd, Billups, Dirk, Pierce.
Pretty much 50% of allstar team was drafted in 1990s and were still dominating (at least) 10 years later.

Wade wasn't top 10 player in 2011?

7th in MVP race
allstar
all nba second team

25,5 ppg
6,4 rpg
4,6 apg
6,6 BPM
58% TS.
That's his playoff production in 2010-11 , yea, not top 10 at all, after all alleged Goat averaged all 1,2 ppg, 1,1 rpg and 2,4 apg more. What a pure domination

You are embarrassing yourself with Wade takes. Wade is easly top 5 SG of all time. And way better and more talented player than any teammate Jordan ever had.
Guy literally won championship with out of his prime Shaq and bunch of over a hill washed up stars. Was finals MVP, 13 times allstar, 8 times all nba teams member, 3 times all nba defensive teams, scoring champion etc.

NBA finals 2011
Wade 26 ppg, 7 rpg, 5,2 apg
Bosh 18,5 ppg, 8,5 rpg, 1,0 apg
Lebron : 17,8 ppg, 7,2 rpg, 7 apg

Tell me more about lockdown defense from DeShawn Stevenson and his stand for best defender in history

Your reading comprehension needs serious work.

[bledredwine]

If scoring 17 points in the final quarter is defined as 'nearly having a failure' then he really must be your GOAT.

I remember his stats for that series, at that time, being abysmal. In all fairness, he went on and played great for the rest of the series, but it was 2011'eque until then.

So nope, not my goat!

Tell us you didn’t watch the series without telling us you didn’t watch the series.

I watched every single game.

And guess what? At that moment, Lebron's finals points per game was 22, which was Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career so apparently you were the one not watching because he had a terrible reputation in the finals at the time.

[Iwasawitness]

I remember his stats for that series, at that time, being abysmal. In all fairness, he went on and played great for the rest of the series, but it was 2011'eque until then.

So nope, not my goat!

Tell us you didn’t watch the series without telling us you didn’t watch the series.

I watched every single game.

And guess what? At that moment, Lebron's finals points per game was 22, which was Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career so apparently you were the one not watching because he had a terrible reputation in the finals at the time.

Apparently you didn’t, otherwise you wouldn’t be comparing it to 2011.

[bledredwine]

Tell us you didn’t watch the series without telling us you didn’t watch the series.

I watched every single game.

And guess what? At that moment, Lebron's finals points per game was 22, which was Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career so apparently you were the one not watching because he had a terrible reputation in the finals at the time.

Apparently you didn’t, otherwise you wouldn’t be comparing it to 2011.

It was pretty bad! I'm thinking of the first Spurs final, not the OKC final.

[Iwasawitness]

[list=][/list]

I watched every single game.

And guess what? At that moment, Lebron's finals points per game was 22, which was Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career so apparently you were the one not watching because he had a terrible reputation in the finals at the time.

Apparently you didn’t, otherwise you wouldn’t be comparing it to 2011.

It was pretty bad! I'm thinking of the first Spurs final, not the OKC final.

Well that would be 2007 then, which I’m pretty sure isn’t the one you were originally talking about but lord only knows with you. So which is it? 2007 or 2013?

[pepe1991]

[list=][/list]

Apparently you didn’t, otherwise you wouldn’t be comparing it to 2011.

It was pretty bad! I'm thinking of the first Spurs final, not the OKC final.

Well that would be 2007 then, which I’m pretty sure isn’t the one you were originally talking about but lord only knows with you. So which is it? 2007 or 2013?

2007 nba finals Lebron stat line was
22 ppg
7 rpg
6,8 apg
5,8 TO

35,6% FG
20% for 3
69% FT

42,8% TS


He sucked in that finals but most people don't hold it against him because he was so young.

Way worst was 2011 and Dallas series.

By the way things are going P Dilldy might be biggest slide out of GOAT debates, slipping on all that baby oil
For person that pops on twitter about virtually everything he is very silent about a topic, you know, in his words "no party like Diddy party".

[Iwasawitness]

[list=][/list]

It was pretty bad! I'm thinking of the first Spurs final, not the OKC final.

Well that would be 2007 then, which I’m pretty sure isn’t the one you were originally talking about but lord only knows with you. So which is it? 2007 or 2013?

2007 nba finals Lebron stat line was
22 ppg
7 rpg
6,8 apg
5,8 TO

35,6% FG
20% for 3
69% FT

42,8% TS


He sucked in that finals but most people don't hold it against him because he was so young.

Way worst was 2011 and Dallas series.

By the way things are going P Dilldy might be biggest slide out of GOAT debates, slipping on all that baby oil
For person that pops on twitter about virtually everything he is very silent about a topic, you know, in his words "no party like Diddy party".

Well that and he was going up against… you know, the Spurs.

[bledredwine]

[list=][/list]

Apparently you didn’t, otherwise you wouldn’t be comparing it to 2011.

It was pretty bad! I'm thinking of the first Spurs final, not the OKC final.

Well that would be 2007 then, which I’m pretty sure isn’t the one you were originally talking about but lord only knows with you. So which is it? 2007 or 2013?

Nope, the latter Spurs series with Ray Allen's 3 and Bosh's rebound. Lebron had a poor series until
after Ray hit that 3.

If he didn't hit that 3, it's considered another choke and the Heat were even favored to win that series, which they went on to win in 7.

Lebron was the leading scorer in only 1 of those first 5 games.

Game 1 scoring leader - Parker with 21
Game 2 - Chalmers with 19
Game 3 - Green with 27
Game 4 - Lebron with 33
Game 5 - Parker with 26


And Lebron literally had a 22 ppg career finals average up to then, which is Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career.

Yep. You can't make that up. Check the stats. 2013.

2011 and those five finals games in 2013 were enough to show me that Lebron just wasn't good enough to be GOAT material,
which I already knew.

Jordan was just a level ahead of literally everyone. You never saw someone outscoring him and outplaying him over a few or especially more games. You look up Jordan's most dominant 10 or so playoff series and it literally looks like someone created the numbers as a joke. It was like a video game character.

Lebron is great, but he is not. The only Jordan the majority here seem to know or properly remember is 98 or Wizards Jordan.

[Iwasawitness]

[list=][/list]

It was pretty bad! I'm thinking of the first Spurs final, not the OKC final.

Well that would be 2007 then, which I’m pretty sure isn’t the one you were originally talking about but lord only knows with you. So which is it? 2007 or 2013?

Nope, the latter Spurs series with Ray Allen's 3 and Bosh's rebound. Lebron had a poor series until
after Ray hit that 3.

If he didn't hit that 3, it's considered another choke and the Heat were even favored to win that series, which they went on to win in 7.

Lebron was the leading scorer in only 1 of those first 5 games.

Game 1 scoring leader - Parker with 21
Game 2 - Chalmers with 19
Game 3 - Green with 27
Game 4 - Lebron with 33
Game 5 - Parker with 26


And Lebron literally had a 22 ppg career finals average up to then, which is Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career.

Yep. You can't make that up. Check the stats. 2013.

2011 and those five finals games in 2013 were enough to show me that Lebron just wasn't good enough to be GOAT material,
which I already knew.

Jordan was just a level ahead of literally everyone. You never saw someone outscoring him and outplaying him over a few or especially more games. You look up Jordan's most dominant 10 or so playoff series and it literally looks like someone created the numbers as a joke. It was like a video game character.

Lebron is great, but he is not. The only Jordan the majority here seem to know or properly remember is 98 or Wizards Jordan.

The problem with this logic is you’re looking at only the scoring aspect, something you tend to do with your Jordan/LeBron ramblings.

See, the thing about 2011 is that LeBron didn’t just do poorly scoring wise. He was almost entirely ineffective on defense, and due to Miamis team structure, he didn’t run the offense much either and often made very poor decisions.

2013 was a different story. For one thing, his defense was great in that series and he was crucial to slowing down Parker, which is ultimately what won them the series. Another key factor is that, this time, LeBron was fully in control of Miami’s offense and was much sharper with his decision making.

So yes, comparing first five games of 2013 to 2011 is beyond laughable, and continues to help demonstrate your massive ignorance on the subject matter and why you can’t be taken seriously. Not to mention, in the end, LeBron didn’t choke, and in fact brought Miami back into game 6 and carried the offense to a win, and topped it off with a gem of a game 7 close out performance that was so good that even Skip Bayless gave him praise. Please, keep trying to Cherry pick and continue killing your credibility. See how well that works out for you.

[bledredwine]

[list=][/list]

Well that would be 2007 then, which I’m pretty sure isn’t the one you were originally talking about but lord only knows with you. So which is it? 2007 or 2013?

Nope, the latter Spurs series with Ray Allen's 3 and Bosh's rebound. Lebron had a poor series until
after Ray hit that 3.

If he didn't hit that 3, it's considered another choke and the Heat were even favored to win that series, which they went on to win in 7.

Lebron was the leading scorer in only 1 of those first 5 games.

Game 1 scoring leader - Parker with 21
Game 2 - Chalmers with 19
Game 3 - Green with 27
Game 4 - Lebron with 33
Game 5 - Parker with 26


And Lebron literally had a 22 ppg career finals average up to then, which is Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career.

Yep. You can't make that up. Check the stats. 2013.

2011 and those five finals games in 2013 were enough to show me that Lebron just wasn't good enough to be GOAT material,
which I already knew.

Jordan was just a level ahead of literally everyone. You never saw someone outscoring him and outplaying him over a few or especially more games. You look up Jordan's most dominant 10 or so playoff series and it literally looks like someone created the numbers as a joke. It was like a video game character.

Lebron is great, but he is not. The only Jordan the majority here seem to know or properly remember is 98 or Wizards Jordan.

The problem with this logic is you’re looking at only the scoring aspect, something you tend to do with your Jordan/LeBron ramblings.

See, the thing about 2011 is that LeBron didn’t just do poorly scoring wise. He was almost entirely ineffective on defense, and due to Miamis team structure, he didn’t run the offense much either and often made very poor decisions.

2013 was a different story. For one thing, his defense was great in that series and he was crucial to slowing down Parker, which is ultimately what won them the series. Another key factor is that, this time, LeBron was fully in control of Miami’s offense and was much sharper with his decision making.

So yes, comparing first five games of 2013 to 2011 is beyond laughable, and continues to help demonstrate your massive ignorance on the subject matter and why you can’t be taken seriously. Not to mention, in the end, LeBron didn’t choke, and in fact brought Miami back into game 6 and carried the offense to a win, and topped it off with a gem of a game 7 close out performance that was so good that even Skip Bayless gave him praise. Please, keep trying to Cherry pick and continue killing your credibility. See how well that works out for you.

Scoring is important. You win the game by scoring more than the other team. You can lookup Lebron’s PER over those games. He was choking in the first half of the series and everyone at the time knew it.

[Iwasawitness]

Nope, the latter Spurs series with Ray Allen's 3 and Bosh's rebound. Lebron had a poor series until
after Ray hit that 3.

If he didn't hit that 3, it's considered another choke and the Heat were even favored to win that series, which they went on to win in 7.

Lebron was the leading scorer in only 1 of those first 5 games.

Game 1 scoring leader - Parker with 21
Game 2 - Chalmers with 19
Game 3 - Green with 27
Game 4 - Lebron with 33
Game 5 - Parker with 26


And Lebron literally had a 22 ppg career finals average up to then, which is Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career.

Yep. You can't make that up. Check the stats. 2013.

2011 and those five finals games in 2013 were enough to show me that Lebron just wasn't good enough to be GOAT material,
which I already knew.

Jordan was just a level ahead of literally everyone. You never saw someone outscoring him and outplaying him over a few or especially more games. You look up Jordan's most dominant 10 or so playoff series and it literally looks like someone created the numbers as a joke. It was like a video game character.

Lebron is great, but he is not. The only Jordan the majority here seem to know or properly remember is 98 or Wizards Jordan.

The problem with this logic is you’re looking at only the scoring aspect, something you tend to do with your Jordan/LeBron ramblings.

See, the thing about 2011 is that LeBron didn’t just do poorly scoring wise. He was almost entirely ineffective on defense, and due to Miamis team structure, he didn’t run the offense much either and often made very poor decisions.

2013 was a different story. For one thing, his defense was great in that series and he was crucial to slowing down Parker, which is ultimately what won them the series. Another key factor is that, this time, LeBron was fully in control of Miami’s offense and was much sharper with his decision making.

So yes, comparing first five games of 2013 to 2011 is beyond laughable, and continues to help demonstrate your massive ignorance on the subject matter and why you can’t be taken seriously. Not to mention, in the end, LeBron didn’t choke, and in fact brought Miami back into game 6 and carried the offense to a win, and topped it off with a gem of a game 7 close out performance that was so good that even Skip Bayless gave him praise. Please, keep trying to Cherry pick and continue killing your credibility. See how well that works out for you.

Scoring is important. You win the game by scoring more than the other team. You can lookup Lebron’s PER over those games. He was choking in the first half of the series and everyone at the time knew it.

No **** scoring is important. You’re missing the point. There’s more to the game than scoring and LeBron was having a major impact on those aspects of the game during that series. Again, this wasn’t the case in 2011. You’d know this if you actually watched those series, and at this point I’m convinced you didn’t.

[bledredwine]

The problem with this logic is you’re looking at only the scoring aspect, something you tend to do with your Jordan/LeBron ramblings.

See, the thing about 2011 is that LeBron didn’t just do poorly scoring wise. He was almost entirely ineffective on defense, and due to Miamis team structure, he didn’t run the offense much either and often made very poor decisions.

2013 was a different story. For one thing, his defense was great in that series and he was crucial to slowing down Parker, which is ultimately what won them the series. Another key factor is that, this time, LeBron was fully in control of Miami’s offense and was much sharper with his decision making.

So yes, comparing first five games of 2013 to 2011 is beyond laughable, and continues to help demonstrate your massive ignorance on the subject matter and why you can’t be taken seriously. Not to mention, in the end, LeBron didn’t choke, and in fact brought Miami back into game 6 and carried the offense to a win, and topped it off with a gem of a game 7 close out performance that was so good that even Skip Bayless gave him praise. Please, keep trying to Cherry pick and continue killing your credibility. See how well that works out for you.

Scoring is important. You win the game by scoring more than the other team. You can lookup Lebron’s PER over those games. He was choking in the first half of the series and everyone at the time knew it.

No **** scoring is important. You’re missing the point. There’s more to the game than scoring and LeBron was having a major impact on those aspects of the game during that series. Again, this wasn’t the case in 2011. You’d know this if you actually watched those series, and at this point I’m convinced you didn’t.

You're missing the point.

He wasn't performing as he was expected to, which is why they were a miracle 3 and rebound away from losing the series.

You're making excuses.

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

[Iwasawitness]

Scoring is important. You win the game by scoring more than the other team. You can lookup Lebron’s PER over those games. He was choking in the first half of the series and everyone at the time knew it.

No **** scoring is important. You’re missing the point. There’s more to the game than scoring and LeBron was having a major impact on those aspects of the game during that series. Again, this wasn’t the case in 2011. You’d know this if you actually watched those series, and at this point I’m convinced you didn’t.

You're missing the point.

He wasn't performing as he was expected to, which is why they were a miracle 3 and rebound away from losing the series.

You're making excuses.

Scoring 16 points in the fourth quarter and bringing Miami back in the game isn’t up to expectations?

[bledredwine]

No **** scoring is important. You’re missing the point. There’s more to the game than scoring and LeBron was having a major impact on those aspects of the game during that series. Again, this wasn’t the case in 2011. You’d know this if you actually watched those series, and at this point I’m convinced you didn’t.

You're missing the point.

He wasn't performing as he was expected to, which is why they were a miracle 3 and rebound away from losing the series.

You're making excuses.

Scoring 16 points in the fourth quarter and bringing Miami back in the game isn’t up to expectations?

That five game stretch was poor. After the five game stretch, he was great. You can’t make up for a disappearing act with a quarter.

[Iwasawitness]

You're missing the point.

He wasn't performing as he was expected to, which is why they were a miracle 3 and rebound away from losing the series.

You're making excuses.

Scoring 16 points in the fourth quarter and bringing Miami back in the game isn’t up to expectations?

That five game stretch was poor. After the five game stretch, he was great. You can’t make up for a disappearing act with a quarter.

Again, not a disappearing act. He was impacting other aspects of the game at an elite level. Scoring isn’t the only part of the game that matters.

[bledredwine]

Adding more to the thread when I can.

LeBron against 50 win teams is 20-14-
MJ is 20-7
-LeBron against 60 win teams is 3-4
MJ is 7-2
-LeBron played with players who had a combined 100 all star appearances
-MJ had 10 combined allstars
-Nearly 200 players will be involved in trades on Lebrons teams
-LeBron is 4-6 in the finals including getting swept 2x and gentleman sweep 2x
-MJ is 6-0
-Lebron is the only playert in the top 10 with a losing record in the finals
-LeBron has 1 scoring title
MJ had 10
-LeBron has 5 1st team defense
MJ has 9
-LeBron has 0 DPOY
MJ has 1
-LeBron has 0 3 peats
MJ has 2
-LeBron has 0 steals titles
MJ has 3
-LeBron has 4 MVP's
MJ has 5
-LeBron has 4 finals MVP's
MJ has 6
-Lebron missed the playoffs 4x
MJ 2x
-LeBron streak of not losing 3 in a row-128
MJ-626
-LeBron plays in the weakest defensive era in NBA history
-MJ played in the toughest (hand checking, much more physical and greatest big men era in history)
-LeBron is 11-31 in game tying or winning shots in the playoffs
MJ is 9-18
-LeBron is 21-118 on GW shots total
MJ is 28-54
-Lebron all time leader in turnovers and soon to be missed shots
-LeBron shoots 38% for his CAREER beyond 3 feet from the basket, 72% from the FT line
-MJ is the all time leader in ppg in both regular season and post season at 30.1 and 33.5 and considered to be one of the greatest jump shooters in history
-% of 1st place votes for MVP in career
Lebrob-26%
MJ-36%
-Seasons with scoring title and 1st team def
LeBron-0
MJ-9
-Seasons with top 5 MVP
Lebron-5
MJ-9, 5 wins and 4 2nd place
-MJ never lost a championship game on any level
-Reg season in top 10 in def win shares, plus/minus and def rating
Lebron-WS-7
Plus/minus-7
Def rating-3
MJ- WS-8
Plus/minus-8
Def rating-4
-Seasons winning chip, FMVP, MVP, scoring title and 1st team defense
Lebron-0
MJ-4
-Championships without multiple AS
Lebron-1
MJ-6
-MJ has more 30ppg and 50% shooting seasons than Steph Curry, KD, LeBron, James Harden and Kobe combined
-Lebron has cheated game by flopping and teaming up with 2 other top 10 players in their prime.
-MJ made players better by his intensity in practice and demanding excellence from them and himself
-Teams with 20 or less wins
-Lebron 18 from 2010-2019
East-12
West-6. 14 of 18 were in Lebrons conference
-MJ-19 in the 90’s
East-5. 2 in 94
West-14
-5 out of 19 were in MJ’s and 2 were years he didn’t play

◾ Larry Bird: "I would never call him the best player I've ever seen if i weren't serious."

◾ Magic Johnson: "There's Michael Jordan, then the rest of us."

◾ Allen Iverson: "Mike is the GOAT, Mike will always be the GOAT."

◾ Shaquille O'Neal: "The Last Dance only solidified the argument about who is the greatest player of all time."

[ScrantonBulls]

Scoring 16 points in the fourth quarter and bringing Miami back in the game isn’t up to expectations?

That five game stretch was poor. After the five game stretch, he was great. You can’t make up for a disappearing act with a quarter.

Again, not a disappearing act. He was impacting other aspects of the game at an elite level. Scoring isn’t the only part of the game that matters.

Averaging 25 pt, 11 reb, 7 ast, 2 stl and 1 blk per game while winning finals MVP against an all time great team doesn't make up for his disappearing act earlier in the series.

[Iwasawitness]

Adding more to the thread when I can.

LeBron against 50 win teams is 20-14-
MJ is 20-7
-LeBron against 60 win teams is 3-4
MJ is 7-2
-LeBron played with players who had a combined 100 all star appearances
-MJ had 10 combined allstars
-Nearly 200 players will be involved in trades on Lebrons teams
-LeBron is 4-6 in the finals including getting swept 2x and gentleman sweep 2x
-MJ is 6-0
-Lebron is the only playert in the top 10 with a losing record in the finals
-LeBron has 1 scoring title
MJ had 10
-LeBron has 5 1st team defense
MJ has 9
-LeBron has 0 DPOY
MJ has 1
-LeBron has 0 3 peats
MJ has 2
-LeBron has 0 steals titles
MJ has 3
-LeBron has 4 MVP's
MJ has 5
-LeBron has 4 finals MVP's
MJ has 6
-Lebron missed the playoffs 4x
MJ 2x
-LeBron streak of not losing 3 in a row-128
MJ-626
-LeBron plays in the weakest defensive era in NBA history
-MJ played in the toughest (hand checking, much more physical and greatest big men era in history)
-LeBron is 11-31 in game tying or winning shots in the playoffs
MJ is 9-18
-LeBron is 21-118 on GW shots total
MJ is 28-54
-Lebron all time leader in turnovers and soon to be missed shots
-LeBron shoots 38% for his CAREER beyond 3 feet from the basket, 72% from the FT line
-MJ is the all time leader in ppg in both regular season and post season at 30.1 and 33.5 and considered to be one of the greatest jump shooters in history
-% of 1st place votes for MVP in career
Lebrob-26%
MJ-36%
-Seasons with scoring title and 1st team def
LeBron-0
MJ-9
-Seasons with top 5 MVP
Lebron-5
MJ-9, 5 wins and 4 2nd place
-MJ never lost a championship game on any level
-Reg season in top 10 in def win shares, plus/minus and def rating
Lebron-WS-7
Plus/minus-7
Def rating-3
MJ- WS-8
Plus/minus-8
Def rating-4
-Seasons winning chip, FMVP, MVP, scoring title and 1st team defense
Lebron-0
MJ-4
-Championships without multiple AS
Lebron-1
MJ-6
-MJ has more 30ppg and 50% shooting seasons than Steph Curry, KD, LeBron, James Harden and Kobe combined
-Lebron has cheated game by flopping and teaming up with 2 other top 10 players in their prime.
-MJ made players better by his intensity in practice and demanding excellence from them and himself
-Teams with 20 or less wins
-Lebron 18 from 2010-2019
East-12
West-6. 14 of 18 were in Lebrons conference
-MJ-19 in the 90’s
East-5. 2 in 94
West-14
-5 out of 19 were in MJ’s and 2 were years he didn’t play

◾ Larry Bird: "I would never call him the best player I've ever seen if i weren't serious."

◾ Magic Johnson: "There's Michael Jordan, then the rest of us."

◾ Allen Iverson: "Mike is the GOAT, Mike will always be the GOAT."

◾ Shaquille O'Neal: "The Last Dance only solidified the argument about who is the greatest player of all time."

Desperation is off the charts on this one.