76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Nuntius]

We shouldn't be assuming that any team is fully healthy going into the post-season. We never know who gets hit by injuries or Covid. Get Embiid some help now and the Sixers have a chance for a title. Fail to get Embiid some help now and their title window is closed until the next process.

This is why Morey is waiting. There's at least a 60% chance of this happening in the near future (before the allstar break for the 22 season). And Morey has clearly got the full support if not demand from ownership to take nothing less until then. It's the smart play here even if it doesn't work.

60% chance? Nah, that's way too high, imo. In fact, I don't think that something like that is likely at all. I'd put those chances below 5-10% which means that Philly is basically waiting on a miracle. Not a smart move, imo, but it's their franchise so they can do what they want with it

And I'm just too low on Harris for the 76ers to have a chance even with injuries to others to win without someone at least as good as him and I've not seen that either.

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree.

[dhsilv2]

I agree that a tear drop would help Ben. I also agree that working on his finishing would be a good idea but as I said, he is a good finisher as is. He simply isn't a transcendent one like Giannis and I don't think that he ever could become one.

Ben with 5 more pounds of muscle would be a monster at the rim. For all the people claiming he hasn't developed, clearly false, the one area that he really hasn't focused on his adding the size to bang inside. He doesn't have to get Giannis sized but a few more pounds and he'd really be something driving. Throw in a few counters like a tear drop he could destroy teams trying to "give him space". I don't know that he sees himself as that guy, but just being a bit better there will tighten spacing as defenders can't give him as much space if he can attack it even a little more. Same reason D Wade had guys face guarding him at the 3 point line despite a D Wade 3 being the best outcome of him touching the ball.

I agree with your point. Yes, Ben would benefit a lot by becoming a better finisher and, especially, by learning a few counters and shots in the in-between area (paint but non-RA). I don't think that he'd ever become a transcendent finisher, though, and his utter lack of shooting kind of necessitates that if he wants to be his team's #1 offensive option.

Lets be real, if you don't have a top 25-30 all time player, it's REALLY hard to win in the nba. I think about 8 guys account for something like 60-70% of all titles ever won in this league. But could a team with Simmons, Klay, Danny Green (type), Horry type, and I dunno Maxy look like a dark horse contender? I think so. And I'll tell you one thing...that team's must see basketball even if they only win 50 games. And that's a huge win for most of the GM's in the league. People gotta stop with this "can you win a title" stuff. If you're not in a major market or didn't land Jokic or Giannis, the answer is HELL NO. You can't. You can make a fun entertaining team that will sell fans on hope and entertain them.

[sfballa13]

At a certain point in life you have to stop working on your weaknesses and focus on your strengths. Ben needs to get his head on straight and work on his free throws. Find some more ways to finish at the rim and around it. Get better at cutting. Add some muscle and strength. And never think about jumpers again as long as he lives.

Again, I understand what you're saying but I simply do not think that a player can survive as a primary ball-handler in this league while not having any kind of range, not even a 10-foot jumper. Even McConnell has a 10-foot jumper.

TJ is a great story and I hope that he’s on the Sixers coaching staff one day but let’s get real

The Sixers have dropped from a #1 seed to a .500 team while improving their bench

They were one of the best defensive teams & are now awful

They were one of the best rebounding teams & are now awful

Etc etc

ONE DIFFERENCE

People are fascinated with Simmons for whatever reason but the absolute dumbest argument anyone can make is that he doesn’t contribute to wins

People are quit to forget that it was SImmons who was instrumental in their #1 seed during their regular season

The guy also averaged near a triple double while shooting 60% and defending the opposition's best player in the playoffs

Now Embiid is playing 40+ minutes, going god mode on a nightly basis, with huge leaps taken by Maxey/Thybulle - all to be a .500 team.

Ill stick by what i said from the start - this situation will not be forgotten by any player/agent in the NBA and Morey needs to be fired.

For all those who are saying "but but but the Sixers ownership knows best"

You mean the same ownership that put the keys in Elton Brand's hand and watched him destroy years of tanking for no reason? Yeh, makes a lot of sense

[dhsilv2]

We shouldn't be assuming that any team is fully healthy going into the post-season. We never know who gets hit by injuries or Covid. Get Embiid some help now and the Sixers have a chance for a title. Fail to get Embiid some help now and their title window is closed until the next process.

This is why Morey is waiting. There's at least a 60% chance of this happening in the near future (before the allstar break for the 22 season). And Morey has clearly got the full support if not demand from ownership to take nothing less until then. It's the smart play here even if it doesn't work.

60% chance? Nah, that's way too high, imo. In fact, I don't think that something like that is likely at all. I'd put those chances below 5-10% which means that Philly is basically waiting on a miracle. Not a smart move, imo, but it's their franchise so they can do what they want with it

And I'm just too low on Harris for the 76ers to have a chance even with injuries to others to win without someone at least as good as him and I've not seen that either.

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree.

I think to be fully honest, there's a 25% chance at the very least that Harden is on the market this off season for whatever it's worth. And if Irving is back to playing next year. Harden for Simmons + actually puts the nets in a great spot to win now.

We've seen Leonard move, Harden move, PG move all in a pretty short time. Oh AD moved as well. That's a lot of people in the past few years to use a number as low as 10%. History says there's an above 50% chance here.

[Nuntius]

Ben with 5 more pounds of muscle would be a monster at the rim. For all the people claiming he hasn't developed, clearly false, the one area that he really hasn't focused on his adding the size to bang inside. He doesn't have to get Giannis sized but a few more pounds and he'd really be something driving. Throw in a few counters like a tear drop he could destroy teams trying to "give him space". I don't know that he sees himself as that guy, but just being a bit better there will tighten spacing as defenders can't give him as much space if he can attack it even a little more. Same reason D Wade had guys face guarding him at the 3 point line despite a D Wade 3 being the best outcome of him touching the ball.

I agree with your point. Yes, Ben would benefit a lot by becoming a better finisher and, especially, by learning a few counters and shots in the in-between area (paint but non-RA). I don't think that he'd ever become a transcendent finisher, though, and his utter lack of shooting kind of necessitates that if he wants to be his team's #1 offensive option.

Lets be real, if you don't have a top 25-30 all time player, it's REALLY hard to win in the nba. I think about 8 guys account for something like 60-70% of all titles ever won in this league. But could a team with Simmons, Klay, Danny Green (type), Horry type, and I dunno Maxy look like a dark horse contender? I think so. And I'll tell you one thing...that team's must see basketball even if they only win 50 games. And that's a huge win for most of the GM's in the league. People gotta stop with this "can you win a title" stuff. If you're not in a major market or didn't land Jokic or Giannis, the answer is HELL NO. You can't. You can make a fun entertaining team that will sell fans on hope and entertain them.

Sure, I guess? I don't see how this is relevant to the particular comment you quoted, to be honest.

[Nuntius]

This is why Morey is waiting. There's at least a 60% chance of this happening in the near future (before the allstar break for the 22 season). And Morey has clearly got the full support if not demand from ownership to take nothing less until then. It's the smart play here even if it doesn't work.

60% chance? Nah, that's way too high, imo. In fact, I don't think that something like that is likely at all. I'd put those chances below 5-10% which means that Philly is basically waiting on a miracle. Not a smart move, imo, but it's their franchise so they can do what they want with it

And I'm just too low on Harris for the 76ers to have a chance even with injuries to others to win without someone at least as good as him and I've not seen that either.

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree.

I think to be fully honest, there's a 25% chance at the very least that Harden is on the market this off season for whatever it's worth. And if Irving is back to playing next year. Harden for Simmons + actually puts the nets in a great spot to win now.

We've seen Leonard move, Harden move, PG move all in a pretty short time. Oh AD moved as well. That's a lot of people in the past few years to use a number as low as 10%. History says there's an above 50% chance here.

Yeah, not seeing any of it, to be honest. The players you mentioned have all gotten their wishes. PG and Kawhi went to play in LA, like they wanted. Kyrie and KD got to team up, like they wanted.

Could Harden bail? It's possible, I guess, but why would he leave KD to go play in Philly?

[ITYSL]

No that doesn't make sense. Morey and other GM's all work within the same constraints.

Billy Beane is limited by his payroll and was forced to come up with alternative ways to compete. His alternative ways to compete have now become what every single team in baseball does. They're all hugely staffed with analytics. Billy Beane is still having to compete in a league without a salary cap, where the other teams got to use his methods on a 200 million dollar payroll. Boston certainly did. That's why what Billy Beane did was so impressive. He was working on a huge handicap. Not the way Morey was.

And in fairness to Morey as well, whether he succeeded or not, he ultimately also changed basketball because while the league was progressing towards this, he accelerated the shift in shot selection and now just like in baseball with moneyball, every single team utilizes the same methods of maximizing the efficiency types of shots they take.

What I said was facts.

Morey’s rockets were very likely a CP3 hammy injury away from a title. And that’s against the KD warriors that no other team had a remote chance against when their stars were healthy.

Also, during Morey’s entire rockets tenure in those 13 years there is only one team that has more regular season wins (the spurs), and only seven teams with more playoff wins (even though he was never allowed to actually tank and had to keep the rockets competitive while rebuilding). And he built a perennial contender.

You can debate the potential outcome if CP3 doesn’t get hurt, but the rest are all factzz lol. Morey can be a stubborn jerk at times, but he’s at worst a top 5 GM in nba if allowed to do his job.

Re:CPJ - If Columbus had a motorboat, he would have gotten here sooner.

15+ years as GM and zero, zip, zilch appearances in the Finals.

[dhsilv2]

60% chance? Nah, that's way too high, imo. In fact, I don't think that something like that is likely at all. I'd put those chances below 5-10% which means that Philly is basically waiting on a miracle. Not a smart move, imo, but it's their franchise so they can do what they want with it



Fair enough, we can agree to disagree.

I think to be fully honest, there's a 25% chance at the very least that Harden is on the market this off season for whatever it's worth. And if Irving is back to playing next year. Harden for Simmons + actually puts the nets in a great spot to win now.

We've seen Leonard move, Harden move, PG move all in a pretty short time. Oh AD moved as well. That's a lot of people in the past few years to use a number as low as 10%. History says there's an above 50% chance here.

Yeah, not seeing any of it, to be honest. The players you mentioned have all gotten their wishes. PG and Kawhi went to play in LA, like they wanted. Kyrie and KD got to team up, like they wanted.

Could Harden bail? It's possible, I guess, but why would he leave KD to go play in Philly?

Honestly, I don't think he likes playing with KD and Irving. Maybe I'm wrong. Also I think teaming with Embiid and Harris would be better for him.

Kawhi still went to toronto. And frankly, I think a lot of guys would want to play with Embiid. And doc even though I don't like him seems to be someone people like. Philly is a great spot to give someone a title shot is the long and short of it.

[dhsilv2]

I agree with your point. Yes, Ben would benefit a lot by becoming a better finisher and, especially, by learning a few counters and shots in the in-between area (paint but non-RA). I don't think that he'd ever become a transcendent finisher, though, and his utter lack of shooting kind of necessitates that if he wants to be his team's #1 offensive option.

Lets be real, if you don't have a top 25-30 all time player, it's REALLY hard to win in the nba. I think about 8 guys account for something like 60-70% of all titles ever won in this league. But could a team with Simmons, Klay, Danny Green (type), Horry type, and I dunno Maxy look like a dark horse contender? I think so. And I'll tell you one thing...that team's must see basketball even if they only win 50 games. And that's a huge win for most of the GM's in the league. People gotta stop with this "can you win a title" stuff. If you're not in a major market or didn't land Jokic or Giannis, the answer is HELL NO. You can't. You can make a fun entertaining team that will sell fans on hope and entertain them.

Sure, I guess? I don't see how this is relevant to the particular comment you quoted, to be honest.

Ben is running that offense no? That's an example of a really fun style team that's not impossible to build (player types) that'll maximize Ben and could really pressure teams.

[bebopdeluxe]

Morey is the Billy Beane of the NBA, lauded in the analytics community as savants but unable in 15+ years as GM to even make the Finals or WS, respectively.

I didn't know it was Morey's fault that Chris Paul pulled his hamstring just as the Rockets were about to beat a fully-loaded Warriors team to go to the Finals.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Asianiac_24]

Ben still mentally injured?

[Nate505]

Imagine the thread size when ben is actually traded.

Raps might pull another Kawhi

Except Kawhi is actually a great player.

[ITYSL]

Morey is the Billy Beane of the NBA, lauded in the analytics community as savants but unable in 15+ years as GM to even make the Finals or WS, respectively.

I didn't know it was Morey's fault that Chris Paul pulled his hamstring just as the Rockets were about to beat a fully-loaded Warriors team to go to the Finals.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I didn't know you were fond of arguing with strawmen.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[John Murdoch]

Morey u know u want AD for Ben and Thybulle . Do it

[Onlytimewilltel]

Morey is the Billy Beane of the NBA, lauded in the analytics community as savants but unable in 15+ years as GM to even make the Finals or WS, respectively.

I didn't know it was Morey's fault that Chris Paul pulled his hamstring just as the Rockets were about to beat a fully-loaded Warriors team to go to the Finals.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Lol don’t argue with her man, she’s probably just trolling..

[GunnerWRX]

How do real 76ers fans really feel about Morey's plan actually? From #1 team last season to 16-15 #6 right now.

Are real 76ers fans mostly with Morey or do they want to trade Simmons for the highest return (someone like CJ-level or Indiana/Kings package), re-focus and re-claim home court?

[MrBigShot]

Again, I understand what you're saying but I simply do not think that a player can survive as a primary ball-handler in this league while not having any kind of range, not even a 10-foot jumper. Even McConnell has a 10-foot jumper.

TJ is a great story and I hope that he’s on the Sixers coaching staff one day but let’s get real

The Sixers have dropped from a #1 seed to a .500 team while improving their bench

They were one of the best defensive teams & are now awful

They were one of the best rebounding teams & are now awful

Etc etc

ONE DIFFERENCE

People are fascinated with Simmons for whatever reason but the absolute dumbest argument anyone can make is that he doesn’t contribute to wins

People are quit to forget that it was SImmons who was instrumental in their #1 seed during their regular season

The guy also averaged near a triple double while shooting 60% and defending the opposition's best player in the playoffs

Now Embiid is playing 40+ minutes, going god mode on a nightly basis, with huge leaps taken by Maxey/Thybulle - all to be a .500 team.

Ill stick by what i said from the start - this situation will not be forgotten by any player/agent in the NBA and Morey needs to be fired.

For all those who are saying "but but but the Sixers ownership knows best"

You mean the same ownership that put the keys in Elton Brand's hand and watched him destroy years of tanking for no reason? Yeh, makes a lot of sense

Question to you and anyone who feels Morey should be fired: do you think any of the packages he could've gotten would improved the team enough to be a legitimate contender? Because if not, then he'd still be wasting Embiid's prime. I just don't see Brogdon or McCollum + picks elevating the sixers to contender status. Morey has no obligation to trade Simmons if it wont improve the team.

As far as the implications of this situation, I think it will be one of the major catalysts towards changes to the next CBA.

[tbhawksfan1]

This whole crap show is on BS. I hope that he never plays another game in the NBA or gets paid a penny. I don't know what people expect Morey to do. He's in a no win situation unless he can get back equal compensation in a trade

[sfballa13]

TJ is a great story and I hope that he’s on the Sixers coaching staff one day but let’s get real

The Sixers have dropped from a #1 seed to a .500 team while improving their bench

They were one of the best defensive teams & are now awful

They were one of the best rebounding teams & are now awful

Etc etc

ONE DIFFERENCE

People are fascinated with Simmons for whatever reason but the absolute dumbest argument anyone can make is that he doesn’t contribute to wins

People are quit to forget that it was SImmons who was instrumental in their #1 seed during their regular season

The guy also averaged near a triple double while shooting 60% and defending the opposition's best player in the playoffs

Now Embiid is playing 40+ minutes, going god mode on a nightly basis, with huge leaps taken by Maxey/Thybulle - all to be a .500 team.

Ill stick by what i said from the start - this situation will not be forgotten by any player/agent in the NBA and Morey needs to be fired.

For all those who are saying "but but but the Sixers ownership knows best"

You mean the same ownership that put the keys in Elton Brand's hand and watched him destroy years of tanking for no reason? Yeh, makes a lot of sense

Question to you and anyone who feels Morey should be fired: do you think any of the packages he could've gotten would improved the team enough to be a legitimate contender? Because if not, then he'd still be wasting Embiid's prime. I just don't see Brogdon or McCollum + picks elevating the sixers to contender status. Morey has no obligation to trade Simmons if it wont improve the team.

As far as the implications of this situation, I think it will be one of the major catalysts towards changes to the next CBA.

I think the combination of Morey demanding top dollar, waiting 4+ months while he demands out, and the Sixers underperforming all have driven Simmons value down.

Yes, Embiid's prime has been wasted. The guy has missed 30%+ regular season games in his career. He is brittle, those are the facts. To force him to play such big minutes with 33M of their cap space sitting at home will come back to bite them in the ass.

If Embiid continues to play this well and the Sixers are a 1st round exit, you better believe this is going to piss Embiid off, regardless of how many times him and Morey played tennis in the offseason.

As the deadling approaches and the Sixers become more desperate to salvage their season, Simmons value will drop even further.

You are right, Morey has no obligation to trade Simmons, but to sit by and watch 33M of cap space go down the drain is criminal esp considering the Sixers are barely over .500. I would understand if his team was one of the top teams in the league but that's not the case. Curry/Maxey are playing out of their minds and Embiid is having one of his best seasons yet and they have dropped from a convincing 1st overall seed in the East to just an average team.

[kuclas]

People are quit to forget that it was SImmons who was instrumental in their #1 seed during their regular season

The guy also averaged near a triple double while shooting 60% and defending the opposition's best player in the playoffs

Now Embiid is playing 40+ minutes, going god mode on a nightly basis, with huge leaps taken by Maxey/Thybulle - all to be a .500 team.

Ill stick by what i said from the start - this situation will not be forgotten by any player/agent in the NBA and Morey needs to be fired.

For all those who are saying "but but but the Sixers ownership knows best"

You mean the same ownership that put the keys in Elton Brand's hand and watched him destroy years of tanking for no reason? Yeh, makes a lot of sense

Question to you and anyone who feels Morey should be fired: do you think any of the packages he could've gotten would improved the team enough to be a legitimate contender? Because if not, then he'd still be wasting Embiid's prime. I just don't see Brogdon or McCollum + picks elevating the sixers to contender status. Morey has no obligation to trade Simmons if it wont improve the team.

As far as the implications of this situation, I think it will be one of the major catalysts towards changes to the next CBA.

I think the combination of Morey demanding top dollar, waiting 4+ months while he demands out, and the Sixers underperforming all have driven Simmons value down.

Yes, Embiid's prime has been wasted. The guy has missed 30%+ regular season games in his career. He is brittle, those are the facts. To force him to play such big minutes with 33M of their cap space sitting at home will come back to bite them in the ass.

If Embiid continues to play this well and the Sixers are a 1st round exit, you better believe this is going to piss Embiid off, regardless of how many times him and Morey played tennis in the offseason.

As the deadling approaches and the Sixers become more desperate to salvage their season, Simmons value will drop even further.

You are right, Morey has no obligation to trade Simmons, but to sit by and watch 33M of cap space go down the drain is criminal esp considering the Sixers are barely over .500. I would understand if his team was one of the top teams in the league but that's not the case. Curry/Maxey are playing out of their minds and Embiid is having one of his best seasons yet and they have dropped from a convincing 1st overall seed in the East to just an average team.

You don’t reward malcontents and let Simmons and klutch get their way.

Sixers with a healthy embiid are much better than their 16-15 record. Everyone knows it. They were 8-2 (7-2 with embiid) before he went out for 9 games (went 2-7)

So withput playing embiid sixers are 3-8 this season. Meaning sixers are 13-7 with embiid in the lineup which is usually good for 3rd seed in the east

Sixers were a fake 1 seed last season the reality is if 82 games were played. Sixers likely end up a 3rd seed anyways.

So get it?

With healthy embiid. Sixers are a 3 maybe 4 seed seed.

With Simmons. Sixers still end up a 3-4 seed

So what’s the difference trading Simmons for spare parts and rewarding Simmons camp for forcing a trade with a 4 year super max contract guarantee?

Jokic is having a great season and he’s gonna to be a first or second round exit as well with no Murray. U think adding junk Minnesota is offering or ho hum brodgon to Denver lineup or hield barnes to Denver lineup gonna to get Jokic out of the first or second round? Nope

That’s Morey thinking.