NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[ReddoverKobe]

Dude has 0 arguments so he's just throwing temper tantrums now

sad

Im only using the words the Jokic cult is saying. Stats, team record and defense no longer matter and Jokic gets special rules, which was my original point.

Hopefully you understand that posters on the RealGM Forums have 0 influence on the actual MVP vote.

You understand that right?

Yes thankfully. Otherwise raptor wed would be all that mattered.

[ReddoverKobe]

"Team record have always mattered" is another bad, bad argument. We don't know how much it mattered, because the best players in the NBA almost always had the best record, or close to it. But even then, Kareem's example showed that when he won it with a losing record, that no, this is not a rule, it's more like a circumstance that is usually present. Most of the time the best players have the best records, it wasn't the case last year, but it is the case this year. Jokic did not need it last year, and it made his case even stronger this year. None of it would matter if he doesn't come up with arguably the GOAT regular season. He is coming up with up. It's really that simple.

So again, Jokic gets his own special rules. We know, that is why some people are confused by all of this.

Have you read what I just wrote? There was never a rule like this, and Kareem winning it with a 40-42 record showed this already.

One time. Winning has always mattered and its dishonest to say it has not.

[Sharkboy242]

Im only using the words the Jokic cult is saying. Stats, team record and defense no longer matter and Jokic gets special rules, which was my original point.

Hopefully you understand that posters on the RealGM Forums have 0 influence on the actual MVP vote.

You understand that right?

Yes thankfully. Otherwise raptor wed would be all that mattered.

Actually this list is much better because it accounts for 10 catch all metrics, not just RAPTOR.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

And it's determined by numbers, not Jokic cultists, so you might be interested in it (or not since your guy isn't regarded as the best, which seems to be the only evidence Giannis fanboys look for).

[Infinite Llamas]

So again, Jokic gets his own special rules. We know, that is why some people are confused by all of this.

Have you read what I just wrote? There was never a rule like this, and Kareem winning it with a 40-42 record showed this already.

One time. Winning has always mattered and its dishonest to say it has not.

This guy lmao. You make it seem like Jokic is playing on the Pistons.

16 game win streak and Denver is only 1.5 back in the standings hahahaha

[ReddoverKobe]

Have you read what I just wrote? There was never a rule like this, and Kareem winning it with a 40-42 record showed this already.

One time. Winning has always mattered and its dishonest to say it has not.

This guy lmao. You make it seem like Jokic is playing on the Pistons.

16 game win streak and Denver is only 1.5 back in the standings hahahaha

What?

Just to be clear I have not one time in here attacked Jokic. I simply thought it was odd that a lot of things that used to matter when it comes to MVP voting simply do not for him. Stats, teams success and defense for example. I mean Tatum was getting a lot of buzz early because he was playing great and because the team had the best record in the league. So your gotcha makes zero sense.

[DutchManDanFan]

Have you read what I just wrote? There was never a rule like this, and Kareem winning it with a 40-42 record showed this already.

One time. Winning has always mattered and its dishonest to say it has not.

This guy lmao. You make it seem like Jokic is playing on the Pistons.

16 game win streak and Denver is only 1.5 back in the standings hahahaha

Maybe with better health for the Bucks the gap would be larger?

Middleton missed 2/3 of the season. But for Giannis’ chances this doesn’t have any meaning? Even with the best record in the league?
All the excuses work for Jokic but not for others. That’s the point and it’s pretty clear.

Jokic is doing great but a lot of his advanced stats are inflated. What Giannis does for the Bucks is different but comparable in valuability with what Jokic does for Denver. But one of them leads his team to the best record in the league.

The only thing Jokic has over Giannis is less games missed.

[_NoMas]

Bring back eyeatoma

[Richard Miller]

Jokic is doing great but a lot of his advanced stats are inflated. What Giannis does for the Bucks is different but comparable in valuability with what Jokic does for Denver. But one of them leads his team to the best record in the league.

The only thing Jokic has over Giannis is less games missed.

Jokic's stats are inflated but Giannis stats are fair? Cool story

[Wolfgang630]

I did find it hilarious ESPN saying Jokic’s stats are inflated, but when it comes to everyone else they never say their stats are inflated too.

[Sgt Major]

Best thing about all this is that this is the 2nd or even 3rd year that every fan base with a player on their team who's in the MVP convo comes to this topic to argue why their guy should win it over Jokic. Sometimes it's Celtics fans, then there are Mavs fans, two months later the topic was flooded with Sixers fans, now we've got Bucks guys... Only Jokic and Nuggets dudes are here to stay as Jokic constantly puts out insane performances and stats and keeps winning those trophies with no drops during three seasons already.

[Infinite Llamas]

One time. Winning has always mattered and its dishonest to say it has not.

This guy lmao. You make it seem like Jokic is playing on the Pistons.

16 game win streak and Denver is only 1.5 back in the standings hahahaha

What?

Just to be clear I have not one time in here attacked Jokic. I simply thought it was odd that a lot of things that used to matter when it comes to MVP voting simply do not for him. Stats, teams success and defense for example. I mean Tatum was getting a lot of buzz early because he was playing great and because the team had the best record in the league. So your gotcha makes zero sense.

Defense???

Look in the past twenty years alone…
Westbrook
Nash
Harden
Dirk
Curry

…when has defense been an integral part of the criteria?

[ReddoverKobe]

This guy lmao. You make it seem like Jokic is playing on the Pistons.

16 game win streak and Denver is only 1.5 back in the standings hahahaha

What?

Just to be clear I have not one time in here attacked Jokic. I simply thought it was odd that a lot of things that used to matter when it comes to MVP voting simply do not for him. Stats, teams success and defense for example. I mean Tatum was getting a lot of buzz early because he was playing great and because the team had the best record in the league. So your gotcha makes zero sense.

Defense???

Look in the past twenty years alone…
Westbrook
Nash
Harden
Dirk
Curry

…when has defense been an integral part of the criteria?

This is tiring. You guys pick a small amount of players and suggest because it did not matter every single time, thats its not been part of the discussion before. Its clear some people have already decided MVP and will move the goal post as much as needed.

[DutchManDanFan]

Jokic is doing great but a lot of his advanced stats are inflated. What Giannis does for the Bucks is different but comparable in valuability with what Jokic does for Denver. But one of them leads his team to the best record in the league.

The only thing Jokic has over Giannis is less games missed.

Jokic's stats are inflated but Giannis stats are fair? Cool story

Advanced stats. Based on on-off and efficiency. Do you think it matters for these stats if you mainly play with the same good offensive players you can trust to make open shots? Well, Giannis didn’t have this most of the year. More of the opposite.

[Infinite Llamas]

What?

Just to be clear I have not one time in here attacked Jokic. I simply thought it was odd that a lot of things that used to matter when it comes to MVP voting simply do not for him. Stats, teams success and defense for example. I mean Tatum was getting a lot of buzz early because he was playing great and because the team had the best record in the league. So your gotcha makes zero sense.

Defense???

Look in the past twenty years alone…
Westbrook
Nash
Harden
Dirk
Curry

…when has defense been an integral part of the criteria?

This is tiring. You guys pick a small amount of players and suggest because it did not matter every single time, thats its not been part of the discussion before. Its clear some people have already decided MVP and will move the goal post as much as needed.

Add in Jokic and AI and that’s half the guys in the past 21 years of MVPs that are not known for their defense. 50% is hardly a small number.

Where was the outcry for Steph’s poor defense when he was winning the award?

[DutchManDanFan]

Best thing about all this is that this is the 2nd or even 3rd year that every fan base with a player on their team who's in the MVP convo comes to this topic to argue why their guy should win it over Jokic. Sometimes it's Celtics fans, then there are Mavs fans, two months later the topic was flooded with Sixers fans, now we've got Bucks guys... Only Jokic and Nuggets dudes are here to stay as Jokic constantly puts out insane performances and stats and keeps winning those trophies with no drops during three seasons already.

Last 2 years the Bucks didn’t have the best record in the league. Easy to understand Giannis would not win MVP.
But with the best record and Middleton missing 2/3 of the season (and still on minutes restriction)? There’s only one reason why he isn’t leading the MVP race by a mile and that’s his knee.

[Magic Giannison]

This is easily explained by not only Nuggets bench is terrible but also to the way Nuggets are one of the few if not the only team that subs all 5 of their players with bench which highly inflates their on off and general +- numbers.

This shows difference in TS%, not +/- so I don’t get the argument that the nugggets bench sucks. I mean, it does, but that doesn’t explain why his teammates shot better with him than without

For real

Dude didn’t bother to read the chart…

When Jokic is on the court, everyone magically shoots better

When he sits, everyone shoots worse.

Huge coincidence

I guess basketballl is very hard for you guys to understand so il explain even further that even you will get it.

Bad bench + bad players around = worse shots ( no spacing no good playmaking which translates into harder shots )

Good starters +good players around = better sgots ( better spacing more playmaking which translates into more open opportunities and better shots)

Thats why i put On off ( which was for the TS) and then mentioned +- in general.

Ok now mister casual, we clear here? good.

[Magic Giannison]

Read on Twitter

20-2 record btw during that timeline if im not mistaken.

[Sgt Major]

Best thing about all this is that this is the 2nd or even 3rd year that every fan base with a player on their team who's in the MVP convo comes to this topic to argue why their guy should win it over Jokic. Sometimes it's Celtics fans, then there are Mavs fans, two months later the topic was flooded with Sixers fans, now we've got Bucks guys... Only Jokic and Nuggets dudes are here to stay as Jokic constantly puts out insane performances and stats and keeps winning those trophies with no drops during three seasons already.

Last 2 years the Bucks didn’t have the best record in the league. Easy to understand Giannis would not win MVP.
But with the best record and Middleton missing 2/3 of the season (and still on minutes restriction)? There’s only one reason why he isn’t leading the MVP race by a mile and that’s his knee.

Yeah no, that reason is Jokic.

[Richard Miller]

Jokic is doing great but a lot of his advanced stats are inflated. What Giannis does for the Bucks is different but comparable in valuability with what Jokic does for Denver. But one of them leads his team to the best record in the league.

The only thing Jokic has over Giannis is less games missed.

Jokic's stats are inflated but Giannis stats are fair? Cool story

Advanced stats. Based on on-off and efficiency. Do you think it matters for these stats if you mainly play with the same good offensive players you can trust to make open shots? Well, Giannis didn’t have this most of the year. More of the opposite.

Same goes for the Nuggets. Murray missed games and was terrible during the first 20 games or so even when he played. MPJ missed a dozen games, same for Jeff Green, Gordon missed games, Bones didn't play anymore in January and then got traded and so on. But apparently 'inflation' somehow works only on one single player

[AleksandarN]

One time. Winning has always mattered and its dishonest to say it has not.

This guy lmao. You make it seem like Jokic is playing on the Pistons.

16 game win streak and Denver is only 1.5 back in the standings hahahaha

Maybe with better health for the Bucks the gap would be larger?

Middleton missed 2/3 of the season. But for Giannis’ chances this doesn’t have any meaning? Even with the best record in the league?
All the excuses work for Jokic but not for others. That’s the point and it’s pretty clear.

Jokic is doing great but a lot of his advanced stats are inflated. What Giannis does for the Bucks is different but comparable in valuability with what Jokic does for Denver. But one of them leads his team to the best record in the league.

The only thing Jokic has over Giannis is less games missed.

Actually jokic has more team wins than Giannis.