NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[Mickey8]

Read on Twitter

20-2 record btw during that timeline if im not mistaken.

Talking about stat padders

[DutchManDanFan]

This guy lmao. You make it seem like Jokic is playing on the Pistons.

16 game win streak and Denver is only 1.5 back in the standings hahahaha

Maybe with better health for the Bucks the gap would be larger?

Middleton missed 2/3 of the season. But for Giannis’ chances this doesn’t have any meaning? Even with the best record in the league?
All the excuses work for Jokic but not for others. That’s the point and it’s pretty clear.

Jokic is doing great but a lot of his advanced stats are inflated. What Giannis does for the Bucks is different but comparable in valuability with what Jokic does for Denver. But one of them leads his team to the best record in the league.

The only thing Jokic has over Giannis is less games missed.

Actually jokic has more team wins than Giannis.

And more team losses.

This is such a lame argument. Suppose Giannis played all the games against lottery teams, then he had a lot more of those 'team wins'. But would he then be the favourite in your eyes? Or would you look for other excuses?

[AleksandarN]

Maybe with better health for the Bucks the gap would be larger?

Middleton missed 2/3 of the season. But for Giannis’ chances this doesn’t have any meaning? Even with the best record in the league?
All the excuses work for Jokic but not for others. That’s the point and it’s pretty clear.

Jokic is doing great but a lot of his advanced stats are inflated. What Giannis does for the Bucks is different but comparable in valuability with what Jokic does for Denver. But one of them leads his team to the best record in the league.

The only thing Jokic has over Giannis is less games missed.

Actually jokic has more team wins than Giannis.

And more team losses.

This is such a lame argument. Suppose Giannis played all the games against lottery teams, then he had a lot more of those 'team wins'. But would he then be the favourite in your eyes? Or would you look for other excuses?

Almost as lame as your argument I was replying to

[CharityStripe34]

I know a great new category for MVP. Whose jokes are funnier, Gianni's or Nikola's? Scouring Second Spectrum for deadpan and sarcasm metrics as I type this.

[Cubbies2120]

This shows difference in TS%, not +/- so I don’t get the argument that the nugggets bench sucks. I mean, it does, but that doesn’t explain why his teammates shot better with him than without

For real

Dude didn’t bother to read the chart…

When Jokic is on the court, everyone magically shoots better

When he sits, everyone shoots worse.

Huge coincidence

I guess basketballl is very hard for you guys to understand so il explain even further that even you will get it.

Bad bench + bad players around = worse shots ( no spacing no good playmaking which translates into harder shots )

Good starters +good players around = better sgots ( better spacing more playmaking which translates into more open opportunities and better shots)

Thats why i put On off ( which was for the TS) and then mentioned +- in general.

Ok now mister casual, we clear here? good.

I'm going to dumb this down a little to make it easier to understand for you as there seems to be a challenge we gotta accommodate for...

This chart is specifically looking at Jokic + [Player] and how [Player] shoots significantly better with Jokic on the court.

It is not looking at Jokic + 3 other players + [Player].

Did that dumbed down explanation help bubba? Let me know if you need a diagram.

[Cubbies2120]

Maybe with better health for the Bucks the gap would be larger?

Middleton missed 2/3 of the season. But for Giannis’ chances this doesn’t have any meaning? Even with the best record in the league?
All the excuses work for Jokic but not for others. That’s the point and it’s pretty clear.

Jokic is doing great but a lot of his advanced stats are inflated. What Giannis does for the Bucks is different but comparable in valuability with what Jokic does for Denver. But one of them leads his team to the best record in the league.

The only thing Jokic has over Giannis is less games missed.

Actually jokic has more team wins than Giannis.

And more team losses.

This is such a lame argument. Suppose Giannis played all the games against lottery teams, then he had a lot more of those 'team wins'. But would he then be the favourite in your eyes? Or would you look for other excuses?

So reward a guy for load managing his way instead of manning up and playing more? Interesting argument skip.

Stop taking days off...

Otherwise, where does it stop? Asking sincerely, if Giannis played 50 games is he eligible? 52? 55? 57? 60? How many games can he take off, to preserve his body and play better in the games he DOES play, before we start punishing the load management?

[Magic Giannison]

For real

Dude didn’t bother to read the chart…

When Jokic is on the court, everyone magically shoots better

When he sits, everyone shoots worse.

Huge coincidence

I guess basketballl is very hard for you guys to understand so il explain even further that even you will get it.

Bad bench + bad players around = worse shots ( no spacing no good playmaking which translates into harder shots )

Good starters +good players around = better shots ( better spacing more playmaking which translates into more open opportunities and better shots)

Thats why i put On off ( which was for the TS) and then mentioned +- in general.

Ok now mister casual, we clear here? good.

I'm going to dumb this down a little to make it easier to understand for you as there seems to be a challenge we gotta accommodate for...

This chart is specifically looking at Jokic + [Player] and how [Player] shoots significantly better with Jokic on the court.

It is not looking at Jokic + 3 other players + [Player].

Did that dumbed down explanation help bubba? Let me know if you need a diagram.

Inflated stats doesn't mean that he isn't helping his teammates or he isnt good, take off your blinders and stop selectively reading.

You literally explain nothing mister casual, you just keep embarrassing yourself further.

[DutchManDanFan]

Actually jokic has more team wins than Giannis.

And more team losses.

This is such a lame argument. Suppose Giannis played all the games against lottery teams, then he had a lot more of those 'team wins'. But would he then be the favourite in your eyes? Or would you look for other excuses?

So reward a guy for load managing his way instead of manning up and playing more? Interesting argument skip.

Stop taking days off...

Otherwise, where does it stop? Asking sincerely, if Giannis played 50 games is he eligible? 52? 55? 57? 60? How many games can he take off, to preserve his body and play better in the games he DOES play, before we start punishing the load management?

So you agree the only reason Jokic is in front because he missed less games. Because best record in the league while being without no 2 on offense most of the year should be more than enough for winning MVP.

[ITYSL]

Maybe with better health for the Bucks the gap would be larger?

Middleton missed 2/3 of the season. But for Giannis’ chances this doesn’t have any meaning? Even with the best record in the league?
All the excuses work for Jokic but not for others. That’s the point and it’s pretty clear.

Jokic is doing great but a lot of his advanced stats are inflated. What Giannis does for the Bucks is different but comparable in valuability with what Jokic does for Denver. But one of them leads his team to the best record in the league.

The only thing Jokic has over Giannis is less games missed.

Actually jokic has more team wins than Giannis.

And more team losses.

This is such a lame argument. Suppose Giannis played all the games against lottery teams, then he had a lot more of those 'team wins'. But would he then be the favourite in your eyes? Or would you look for other excuses?

You're the one who brought up team record as an argument. The Bucks have a 76% winning percentage when Giannis plays. The Nuggets have a 75% winning percentage when Jokic plays. It's a minuscule difference.

And Jokic has played about 15% more games, so his contribution to the team has been greater.

Some Bucks fans in here are funny. Condescending, obviously butthurt, massively confrontational. As they usually are.

B-b-b-but Middleton!

[AleksandarN]

And more team losses.

This is such a lame argument. Suppose Giannis played all the games against lottery teams, then he had a lot more of those 'team wins'. But would he then be the favourite in your eyes? Or would you look for other excuses?

So reward a guy for load managing his way instead of manning up and playing more? Interesting argument skip.

Stop taking days off...

Otherwise, where does it stop? Asking sincerely, if Giannis played 50 games is he eligible? 52? 55? 57? 60? How many games can he take off, to preserve his body and play better in the games he DOES play, before we start punishing the load management?

So you agree the only reason Jokic is in front because he missed less games. Because best record in the league while being without no 2 on offense most of the year should be more than enough for winning MVP.

Jokic contributed to more wins than Giannnis. Bucks record without Giannis is better than Nuggets without Jokic. Jokic plays without any all star. Without any other player in contention for dpoy like Giannis has with Lopez and Holiday. And you are the one bringing up supporting cast with regards to Middleton. Lol

[Sgt Major]

This thread needs more Greeks, they're way funnier and more laid back than regular Bucks fans from the States.

[AussieCeltic]

Best thing about all this is that this is the 2nd or even 3rd year that every fan base with a player on their team who's in the MVP convo comes to this topic to argue why their guy should win it over Jokic. Sometimes it's Celtics fans, then there are Mavs fans, two months later the topic was flooded with Sixers fans, now we've got Bucks guys... Only Jokic and Nuggets dudes are here to stay as Jokic constantly puts out insane performances and stats and keeps winning those trophies with no drops during three seasons already.

Come on man this is just hating. Celtics fans were pushing Tatum at the start of the year because he was the fav with the hot start. I think Celtics fans have been realistic this whole time and once he cooled off and Nuggets ramped up we changed our tune. I think this comment was off base

[Sgt Major]

Best thing about all this is that this is the 2nd or even 3rd year that every fan base with a player on their team who's in the MVP convo comes to this topic to argue why their guy should win it over Jokic. Sometimes it's Celtics fans, then there are Mavs fans, two months later the topic was flooded with Sixers fans, now we've got Bucks guys... Only Jokic and Nuggets dudes are here to stay as Jokic constantly puts out insane performances and stats and keeps winning those trophies with no drops during three seasons already.

Come on man this is just hating. Celtics fans were pushing Tatum at the start of the year because he was the fav with the hot start. I think Celtics fans have been realistic this whole time and once he cooled off and Nuggets ramped up we changed our tune. I think this comment was off base

Oh no, I'm not hating and I didn't say those other fans had no sense in what they were/are saying. It's just funny that Jokic is so dominant throughout these three years that he's the only one who's always been a guy to look up to and measure others against.

[AleksandarN]

I guess basketballl is very hard for you guys to understand so il explain even further that even you will get it.

Bad bench + bad players around = worse shots ( no spacing no good playmaking which translates into harder shots )

Good starters +good players around = better shots ( better spacing more playmaking which translates into more open opportunities and better shots)

Thats why i put On off ( which was for the TS) and then mentioned +- in general.

Ok now mister casual, we clear here? good.

I'm going to dumb this down a little to make it easier to understand for you as there seems to be a challenge we gotta accommodate for...

This chart is specifically looking at Jokic + [Player] and how [Player] shoots significantly better with Jokic on the court.

It is not looking at Jokic + 3 other players + [Player].

Did that dumbed down explanation help bubba? Let me know if you need a diagram.

Inflated stats doesn't mean that he isn't helping his teammates or he isnt good, take off your blinders and stop selectively reading.

You literally explain nothing mister casual, you just keep embarrassing yourself further.

People embarrass themselves by calling other people names because they don’t agree with their point of view.

[Johnny Firpo]

And more team losses.

This is such a lame argument. Suppose Giannis played all the games against lottery teams, then he had a lot more of those 'team wins'. But would he then be the favourite in your eyes? Or would you look for other excuses?

So reward a guy for load managing his way instead of manning up and playing more? Interesting argument skip.

Stop taking days off...

Otherwise, where does it stop? Asking sincerely, if Giannis played 50 games is he eligible? 52? 55? 57? 60? How many games can he take off, to preserve his body and play better in the games he DOES play, before we start punishing the load management?

So you agree the only reason Jokic is in front because he missed less games. Because best record in the league while being without no 2 on offense most of the year should be more than enough for winning MVP.

Not when a center is averaging a triple-double organically, while being 33rd in usage rate, and scoring 25 a game on 70% freakin' TS. Let's be real, the most you can argue is that Giannis is not without merit, but you guys do not argue that. You guys are arguing that Jokic does not deserve the award, which is asinine. He is having what's most likely the greatest regular season ever on the offensive end, and it's likely not very close.

[Magic Giannison]

People embarrass themselves by calling other people names because they don’t agree with their point of view.

I would suggest you go a page back and see him trying to call me out when i've already explained my response multiple times and then he double downs.

If you or anyone in here cannot accept facts and start reading selectively thinking that everyone is after your favorite player to discredit them then its not my problem but yours.

next time id suggest that person to first read and follow up the conversation before jumping in and call someone out.


Bonus:

Read on Twitter

These aren't point of views, these are basketball facts.

[Magic Giannison]

So reward a guy for load managing his way instead of manning up and playing more? Interesting argument skip.

Stop taking days off...

Otherwise, where does it stop? Asking sincerely, if Giannis played 50 games is he eligible? 52? 55? 57? 60? How many games can he take off, to preserve his body and play better in the games he DOES play, before we start punishing the load management?

So you agree the only reason Jokic is in front because he missed less games. Because best record in the league while being without no 2 on offense most of the year should be more than enough for winning MVP.

Not when a center is averaging a triple-double organically, while being 33rd in usage rate, and scoring 25 a game on 70% freakin' TS. Let's be real, the most you can argue is that Giannis is not without merit, but you guys do not argue that. You guys are arguing that Jokic does not deserve the award, which is asinine. He is having what's most likely the greatest regular season ever on the offensive end, and it's likely not very close.

They both deserve the award thats the whole point of arguing about it. A lot of people just don't take TS% as a gospel to consider someone for the best offense ever which is wrong in my opinion on many levels.

Secondly, where do you get the notion that lower usage somehow impacts the efficiency worse especially for a player that isn't a volume scorer?

There is major statistical evidence that higher usage impacts efficiency negativity because the increased production doesn't translate into taking best shots.Hence why vast majority of players have dropped their efficiency in the playoffs when their usages increase

[DutchManDanFan]

So reward a guy for load managing his way instead of manning up and playing more? Interesting argument skip.

Stop taking days off...

Otherwise, where does it stop? Asking sincerely, if Giannis played 50 games is he eligible? 52? 55? 57? 60? How many games can he take off, to preserve his body and play better in the games he DOES play, before we start punishing the load management?

So you agree the only reason Jokic is in front because he missed less games. Because best record in the league while being without no 2 on offense most of the year should be more than enough for winning MVP.

Jokic contributed to more wins than Giannnis. Bucks record without Giannis is better than Nuggets without Jokic. Jokic plays without any all star. Without any other player in contention for dpoy like Giannis has with Lopez and Holiday. And you are the one bringing up supporting cast with regards to Middleton. Lol

Bucks without Giannis were most against lottery teams. Nuggets without Jokic were more against playoff teams. Both had the result in these games you can expect. Jokic played more games. That's it.

I bring up the supporting cast because I read about it for 2 years. But for someone not called Jokic it can't be used?

Now all other Denver starters are useless? And Lopez is better than the Denver starters? Guess what, Lopez doesn't play much at the end of close games.
So many excuses all the time. It's kind of sad. Jokic is great but some of his fans are awful.

[AleksandarN]

People embarrass themselves by calling other people names because they don’t agree with their point of view.

I would suggest you go a page back and see him trying to call me out when i've already explained my response multiple times and then he double downs.

If you or anyone in here cannot accept facts and start reading selectively thinking that everyone is after your favorite player to discredit them then its not my problem but yours.

next time id suggest that person to first read and follow up the conversation before jumping in and call someone out.


Bonus:

Read on Twitter

These aren't point of views, these are basketball facts.

That’s why I said people.

[AleksandarN]

People embarrass themselves by calling other people names because they don’t agree with their point of view.

I would suggest you go a page back and see him trying to call me out when i've already explained my response multiple times and then he double downs.

If you or anyone in here cannot accept facts and start reading selectively thinking that everyone is after your favorite player to discredit them then its not my problem but yours.

next time id suggest that person to first read and follow up the conversation before jumping in and call someone out.


Bonus:

Read on Twitter

These aren't point of views, these are basketball facts.

You know my view on plus minus metric.