Pacers Finalizing $90M Extension For Paul George

[CousinOfDeath]

yes. paul george is much better than deng

Is he? Look at the 3rd year comparisons:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

Both are in the same tier of defending. I don't see why George is better.

deng's defense is overrated and we're not discussing deng as a 3rd year player. we're talking about the present and the future

When Deng had that season in 2006 nobody was calling him a top 15 player with top 5 potential even though he had shown more than George has thus far at the same point in his career. That's my point.

Also note that Deng really hasn't improved significantly since his 3rd year in the league.

[DetroitSho]

Peak happens around 27 but the improvement from the 3rd year in the league to players' peaks is slow and linear while improvement in the first 3 years is usually exponentially. You usually know what a player is by his 3rd year.

And what we know at the moment is that George is at least a top 10-15 player with the potential to be a top 5 one.

I'm saying George doesn't have anywhere close to top 5 player potential, because in order to do that he'd have to increase his scoring output by a ton and through 3 years he hasn't shown the ability to produce at that level. And since it's already been 3 years and players usually show what they are by their 3rd year, he's not going to become that force and therefore won't become a top 5 player, ever.

Seriously what? No one improves, changes their game or adds to it after their 3rd year? You must've been puzzled why Orlando gave Tracy McGrady all that money after not showing much in his 3 years in Toronto other than being a 2nd option at best huh?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Nuntius]

Gasol has an odd game though and most of his value comes from defense and passing which don't always show well in stats.

Just like Paul George.

[CousinOfDeath]

Gasol has an odd game though and most of his value comes from defense and passing which don't always show well in stats.

Just like Paul George.

No, not just like Paul George. Gasol is a big man who's help defense makes a far larger impact than anything George is capable of defensively. He also is a high post passer who gets a lot of hockey assists due to inside out passing. George's passing abilities are far better covered by the stats they had.

Way to cherry pick though. You want me to give more examples of older players? Or are you going to focus on outliers that don't compare to George in any way shape or form?

[CousinOfDeath]

And what we know at the moment is that George is at least a top 10-15 player with the potential to be a top 5 one.

I'm saying George doesn't have anywhere close to top 5 player potential, because in order to do that he'd have to increase his scoring output by a ton and through 3 years he hasn't shown the ability to produce at that level. And since it's already been 3 years and players usually show what they are by their 3rd year, he's not going to become that force and therefore won't become a top 5 player, ever.

Seriously what? No one improves, changes their game or adds to it after their 3rd year? You must've been puzzled why Orlando gave Tracy McGrady all that money after not showing much in his 3 years in Toronto other than being a 2nd option at best huh?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

High school players generally take an extra year. Also lol at "not showing much". TMac was a 6th man in his 3rd year and put up 15/6/3 while playing in the shadow of his more high profile cousin. He had a 20 PER and blew up once he was given more freedom on a different team. Kinda like James Harden.

How does that situation compare at all to Paul George's, who was a starter and focal point of his team for the entirety of his 3rd season?

[still]

george is a top tier defender but his offense is pretty fundamentally flawed to be considered a first or even second option
alot of it has to do with his terrible midrange and relative inability to get calls

prime joe johnson offensively >>> george
prime gerald wallace offensively > george
prime caron butler off >> george
prime richard jefferson off > george
prime josh howard off >> george

and the list goes on and on

i see george's upside as a taller prime larry hughes. hopefully he doesnt develop that chuck mentality

[Nuntius]

Gasol has an odd game though and most of his value comes from defense and passing which don't always show well in stats.

Just like Paul George.

No, not just like Paul George. Gasol is a big man who's help defense makes a far larger impact than anything George is capable of defensively. He also is a high post passer who gets a lot of hockey assists due to inside out passing. George's passing abilities are far better covered by the stats they had.

Way to cherry pick though. You want me to give more examples of older players? Or are you going to focus on outliers that don't compare to George in any way shape or form?

Indiana's defense revolves around Roy Hibbert and Paul George. Both are equally important. Roy was worse when Paul wasn't there to disturb the initial penetration and Paul was worse when Roy wasn't there to protect the rim. Defense is a team scheme and Paul George with Roy Hibbert both got an A+ there.

It's the same with Marc Gasol and Tony Allen. Both are extremely and equally important in their team's defensive scheme.

Also, Paul George gets a lot of hockey assists as well since the Pacers believe in making that extra pass and tend to play in a slower pace than the average team.\

Edit: My point is that you said that defense and passing are often underappreciated. And I absolutely agree with it. The funny thing is that you judge George solely on his scoring while ignoring the rest of his game. It goes both ways, my friend. If defense and passing are underappreciated when it comes to Marc Gasol then that's the case for Paul George as well.

[dice]

Is he? Look at the 3rd year comparisons:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

Both are in the same tier of defending. I don't see why George is better.

deng's defense is overrated and we're not discussing deng as a 3rd year player. we're talking about the present and the future

When Deng had that season in 2006 nobody was calling him a top 15 player with top 5 potential even though he had shown more than George has thus far at the same point in his career

deng wasn't considered an excellent defender at that point! george IS

i'm not sure many people consider PG to have shown top 5 potential. i don't. i suppose it's possible if he somehow becomes a go-to guy offensively

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

i see george's upside as a taller prime larry hughes. hopefully he doesnt develop that chuck mentality

[CousinOfDeath]

Just like Paul George.

No, not just like Paul George. Gasol is a big man who's help defense makes a far larger impact than anything George is capable of defensively. He also is a high post passer who gets a lot of hockey assists due to inside out passing. George's passing abilities are far better covered by the stats they had.

Way to cherry pick though. You want me to give more examples of older players? Or are you going to focus on outliers that don't compare to George in any way shape or form?

Indiana's defense revolves around Roy Hibbert and Paul George. Both are equally important. Roy was worse when Paul wasn't there to disturb the initial penetration and Paul was worse when Roy wasn't there to protect the rim. Defense is a team scheme and Paul George with Roy Hibbert both got an A+ there.

It's the same with Marc Gasol and Tony Allen. Both are extremely and equally important in their team's defensive scheme.

Also, Paul George gets a lot of hockey assists as well since the Pacers believe in making that extra pass and tend to play in a slower pace than the average team.

Cool. Now tell me why those things are signs he's going to somehow make a jump to top 5 player status.

[CousinOfDeath]

deng's defense is overrated and we're not discussing deng as a 3rd year player. we're talking about the present and the future

When Deng had that season in 2006 nobody was calling him a top 15 player with top 5 potential even though he had shown more than George has thus far at the same point in his career

deng wasn't considered an excellent defender at that point! george IS

i'm not sure many people consider PG to have shown top 5 potential. i don't. i suppose it's possible if he somehow becomes a go-to guy offensively

Deng's been good on defense for his entire career. George last year was better than Deng in 06 on defense but it wasn't a big enough difference to make up the advantage in offense Deng had over George.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Cool. Now tell me why those things are signs he's going to somehow make a jump to top 5 player status.

So many of your arguments have been these other players had to adjust to their new setting for them to really start to grow as a player(Tony Parker, Kobe, ect.), why does this argument not hold true for Paul George?

He has the 5th option last season. Even coming into this season we thought Danny Granger would be good to go. It wasn't until pre-season that we found out he would not be playing. How is going from the 5th option to the 1st not an adjustment.

The kid just turned 23 and you are trying to tell me he reached his peak?

Paul George is an extremely hard worker with a good head on his shoulders. Anyone who watched Paul George from the start of last season to the end saw the enormous amount of growth that he showed throughout the season.

But again, the guy who just turned 23 and won most improved player award probably has no upside.

But again, you are right. The NBA is wrong, the Pacers are wrong, LeBron James is wrong.

Paul George got a triple double in his first playoff game as the main guy. In his second series, he went head to head with Carmelo Anthony and took him out. In his third playoff series as the main guy, he took the best player on the planet to 7 games.

Dude has a lot of work to do, he has a lot he needs to improve for sure. To say he can't improve is down right ignorant though.

[DetroitSho]

I'm saying George doesn't have anywhere close to top 5 player potential, because in order to do that he'd have to increase his scoring output by a ton and through 3 years he hasn't shown the ability to produce at that level. And since it's already been 3 years and players usually show what they are by their 3rd year, he's not going to become that force and therefore won't become a top 5 player, ever.

Seriously what? No one improves, changes their game or adds to it after their 3rd year? You must've been puzzled why Orlando gave Tracy McGrady all that money after not showing much in his 3 years in Toronto other than being a 2nd option at best huh?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

High school players generally take an extra year. Also lol at "not showing much". TMac was a 6th man in his 3rd year and put up 15/6/3 while playing in the shadow of his more high profile cousin. He had a 20 PER and blew up once he was given more freedom on a different team. Kinda like James Harden.

How does that situation compare at all to Paul George's, who was a starter and focal point of his team for the entirety of his 3rd season?

This is not a comparison, you made the blanket statement that players don't improve (much) after their 3rd season. Me bringing up TMac disproves. As far as George, wasn't this his 1st year playing SF full time and his 1st year being given the keys to the team?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Nuntius]

and relative inability to get calls

I guess that's why he attempted 6.7 FTs per game in the playoffs.

[CousinOfDeath]

Cool. Now tell me why those things are signs he's going to somehow make a jump to top 5 player status.

So many of your arguments have been these other players had to adjust to their new setting for them to really start to grow as a player(Tony Parker, Kobe, ect.), why does this argument not hold true for Paul George?

He has the 5th option last season. Even coming into this season we thought Danny Granger would be good to go. It wasn't until pre-season that we found out he would not be playing. How is going from the 5th option to the 1st not an adjustment.

The kid just turned 23 and you are trying to tell me he reached his peak?

Paul George is an extremely hard worker with a good head on his shoulders. Anyone who watched Paul George from the start of last season to the end saw the enormous amount of growth that he showed throughout the season.

But again, the guy who just turned 23 and won most improved player award probably has no upside.

But again, you are right. The NBA is wrong, the Pacers are wrong, LeBron James is wrong.

Paul George got a triple double in his first playoff game as the main guy. In his second series, he went head to head with Carmelo Anthony and took him out. In his third playoff series as the main guy, he took the best player on the planet to 7 games.

Dude has a lot of work to do, he has a lot he needs to improve for sure. To say he can't improve is down right ignorant though.

He's going to improve. Just not enough to become an MVP level player.

[CousinOfDeath]

Seriously what? No one improves, changes their game or adds to it after their 3rd year? You must've been puzzled why Orlando gave Tracy McGrady all that money after not showing much in his 3 years in Toronto other than being a 2nd option at best huh?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

High school players generally take an extra year. Also lol at "not showing much". TMac was a 6th man in his 3rd year and put up 15/6/3 while playing in the shadow of his more high profile cousin. He had a 20 PER and blew up once he was given more freedom on a different team. Kinda like James Harden.

How does that situation compare at all to Paul George's, who was a starter and focal point of his team for the entirety of his 3rd season?

This is not a comparison, you made the blanket statement that players don't improve (much) after their 3rd season. Me bringing up TMac disproves. As far as George, wasn't this his 1st year playing SF full time and his 1st year being given the keys to the team?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

TMac doesn't disprove it at all. I already explained why.

Yes, it was his first year doing those things. If he had the potential everyone thinks he does he would have shown it last season.

[DaeDae]

I'll ask the same question I asked in another forum.

Why does it seem people of other fanbases are mad that he got this money??? IMHO, the only people that should be mad at his contract are pacers fans. Fans of other teams, especially teams like the Heat, Bulls, Thunder, Rockets, and Clippers should be absolutely ecstatic, as should other teams looking to improve with plans that DIDN'T include Paul George.

As a bulls fan, I'm ECSTATIC that his contract is a Max deal. We had no shot at him anyway, and this hamstrings Indiana's flexibility going forward starting next season.

[Nuntius]

No, not just like Paul George. Gasol is a big man who's help defense makes a far larger impact than anything George is capable of defensively. He also is a high post passer who gets a lot of hockey assists due to inside out passing. George's passing abilities are far better covered by the stats they had.

Way to cherry pick though. You want me to give more examples of older players? Or are you going to focus on outliers that don't compare to George in any way shape or form?

Indiana's defense revolves around Roy Hibbert and Paul George. Both are equally important. Roy was worse when Paul wasn't there to disturb the initial penetration and Paul was worse when Roy wasn't there to protect the rim. Defense is a team scheme and Paul George with Roy Hibbert both got an A+ there.

It's the same with Marc Gasol and Tony Allen. Both are extremely and equally important in their team's defensive scheme.

Also, Paul George gets a lot of hockey assists as well since the Pacers believe in making that extra pass and tend to play in a slower pace than the average team.

Cool. Now tell me why those things are signs he's going to somehow make a jump to top 5 player status.

Did I say that those things are signs that he's going to make a jump to top 5 player status? No, I didn't.

I am well aware that George will need to improve his offense in order to become a top 5 player. George is aware that he needs to improve his offense as well according to his interviews. He is working on his ball-handling for the second consecutive off-season. He also exhibited nice foul-drawing skills in last year's playoff run.

He has the potential to become a top 5 player. If he realizes that potential is a whole different discussion.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I'll ask the same question I asked in another forum.

Why does it seem people of other fanbases are mad that he got this money??? IMHO, the only people that should be mad at his contract are pacers fans. Fans of other teams, especially teams like the Heat, Bulls, Thunder, Rockets, and Clippers should be absolutely ecstatic, as should other teams looking to improve with plans that DIDN'T include Paul George.

As a bulls fan, I'm ECSTATIC that his contract is a Max deal. We had no shot at him anyway, and this hamstrings Indiana's flexibility going forward starting next season.

See, your argument makes more sense than a lot of the others.

You won't find a Pacers fan upset with this. We love George and feel like he has earned it. Starting next season, Granger comes off the books. What worries me is the fact we might not be able to keep Stephenson. If we can lock Stephenson up, then I will be perfectly happy moving forward with Hibbert, George, and Stephenson.

I said last year that the George Hill contract was a mistake and I'm afraid that might bite us in the end. We'll see.

[DetroitSho]

High school players generally take an extra year. Also lol at "not showing much". TMac was a 6th man in his 3rd year and put up 15/6/3 while playing in the shadow of his more high profile cousin. He had a 20 PER and blew up once he was given more freedom on a different team. Kinda like James Harden.

How does that situation compare at all to Paul George's, who was a starter and focal point of his team for the entirety of his 3rd season?

This is not a comparison, you made the blanket statement that players don't improve (much) after their 3rd season. Me bringing up TMac disproves. As far as George, wasn't this his 1st year playing SF full time and his 1st year being given the keys to the team?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

TMac doesn't disprove it at all. I already explained why.

Yes, it was his first year doing those things. If he had the potential everyone thinks he does he would have shown it last season.

You're right, TMac was the same player from year 3 to year 15. I had it wrong at first.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app