Is Lebron protecting his FG%?

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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#141 » by Rapcity_11 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:24 am

BBallFreak wrote:Except you keep repeating the same mantra. Saying it once and moving on shows a lack of agenda. Continuing to repeat over and over again to anyone who will listen indicates bias. You either need to take a stand one way or the other, or move on.


Pretty sure you don't make the rules of what indicates bias, agenda or when to move on.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#142 » by Rapcity_11 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:27 am

MisterWestside wrote:Waiting for the "Is Kevin Durant protecting his FG%?" thread to be made here.


Maybe people don't think he is? Crazy idea, I know.

(He is in the don't shoot heaves club, though)
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#143 » by PCProductions » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:28 am

Didn't KD basically admit to doing so? Some interview about apples on a tree or something.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#144 » by MisterWestside » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:36 am

bledredwine wrote:Except he's obviously not. Lebron obviously is. It's weird and a bit annoying.


Except Durant obviously is, because the inferior Westbrook is still taking more shots per minute than him.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#145 » by Tim_Hardawayy » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:40 am

LeBron just shot an 18 foot jumper with 20 on the shot clock in a blowout. Now he's clearly reversed, instead of protecting his FG% he's statpadding. This guy just doesn't play the game the right way.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#146 » by Antrim » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:54 am

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:LeBron just shot an 18 foot jumper with 20 on the shot clock in a blowout. Now he's clearly reversed, instead of protecting his FG% he's statpadding. This guy just doesn't play the game the right way.


He also kept on giving his teammates wide open 3 point looks in order to get assists, I suppose. His selfishness has no limits.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#147 » by Rasho_libre » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:06 am

I have never seen another player in my life purposely miss triple doubles this much. Every other player in the league is so aware when they are close to a triple double. Yeah but this guys is all about stats right?
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#148 » by joelanthony333 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:11 am

MKG35 wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Again...this little competition between Wade and James has been going on for years. Three straight Finals appearances and back to back championships suggest it's not harming anything...


Look how close they were to losing to SA.

If they won only 1 out of 3 finals, would you have said something else? People would probably blame someone for losing. Wade not stepping up, Bosh not stepping up, Lebron not doing ....random somehing.... enough etc.


Seriously dude, considering a 30 team league, if they "only" won 1 out of 3 finals with 3 consecutive finals appearances... that would still be better than 29 other teams.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#149 » by Kurosawa0 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:12 am

Rasho_libre wrote:I have never seen another player in my life purposely miss triple doubles this much. Every other player in the league is so aware when they are close to a triple double. Yeah but this guys is all about stats right?


Bingo. He's had so many games with something like 30 points, 9 rebounds and 9 assists even going back to his Cleveland days. I think they said tonight was his 100th near triple double.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#150 » by Rasho_libre » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:20 am

That jerk dares to drive and dunk when he should be shooting spinning jumpers over 3 outstretched defenders
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#151 » by zeroproblems » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:26 am

Kurosawa0 wrote:
Rasho_libre wrote:I have never seen another player in my life purposely miss triple doubles this much. Every other player in the league is so aware when they are close to a triple double. Yeah but this guys is all about stats right?


Bingo. He's had so many games with something like 30 points, 9 rebounds and 9 assists even going back to his Cleveland days. I think they said tonight was his 100th near triple double.


Yeah that blew my mind when I heard that stat. That's crazy!
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#152 » by infinite11285 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:27 am

Antrim wrote:
Tim_Hardawayy wrote:LeBron just shot an 18 foot jumper with 20 on the shot clock in a blowout. Now he's clearly reversed, instead of protecting his FG% he's statpadding. This guy just doesn't play the game the right way.


He also kept on giving his teammates wide open 3 point looks in order to get assists, I suppose. His selfishness has no limits.


The guy turned downed six open jumpers in transition for dunks. Jordan would've never took the easy way out like that.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#153 » by LakerLegend » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:34 am

Rasho_libre wrote:I have never seen another player in my life purposely miss triple doubles this much. Every other player in the league is so aware when they are close to a triple double. Yeah but this guys is all about stats right?


You must have missed that 52 point triple double he tried to get in NY a few years back and the NBA had to take away a rebound because it was blatant LeBron tried to force his own miss to get a board to get the triple double.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#154 » by EtchenBa » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:37 am

Lakerfan17 wrote:
Rasho_libre wrote:I have never seen another player in my life purposely miss triple doubles this much. Every other player in the league is so aware when they are close to a triple double. Yeah but this guys is all about stats right?


You must have missed that 52 point triple double he tried to get in NY a few years back and the NBA had to take away a rebound because it was blatant LeBron tried to force his own miss to get a board to get the triple double.


Jesus Christ you're so salty...
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#155 » by fatal9 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:39 am

Honestly, it's not hating. He clearly passes up shots that don't yield a high percentage for him, which sounds like a good thing, but someone still has to take those shots. Not every possession (especially in the half court) is going to yield a 50+FG% shot opportunity. When you get a good look in the half court, it's often a bad play to pass it, it can put other players in short clock situations to create a shot. Only pass a good look if you're certain you can get a better one. He mainly does it against bad teams though, because the Heat are so much better than those teams and LeBron can get basically anything he wants against them.

It probably doesn't hurt the Heat to make an issue about it, but the obsession with FG% is kind of annoying to me. Most of the greatest offensive superstars to ever play are good enough where they can control their FG% with the kind of shots they take (especially against bad teams). The point isn't to play in a way to maximize your own FG%, it's to get your team the best shot given the clock situation and how the defense is positioned, and sometimes that means star players have to take shots that they might only make 40% or 45% of the time. There's a reason all that historic shooting stuff disappears in the playoffs, even for LeBron.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#156 » by PCProductions » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:46 am

fatal9 wrote:Honestly, it's not hating. He clearly passes up shots that don't yield a high percentage for him, which sounds like a good thing, but someone still has to take those shots. Not every possession (especially in the half court) is going to yield a 50+FG% shot opportunity. When you get a good look in the half court, it's often a bad play to pass it, it can put other players in short clock situations to create a shot. Only pass a good look if you're certain you can get a better one. He mainly does it against bad teams though, because the Heat are so much better than those teams and LeBron can get basically anything he wants against them.

It probably doesn't hurt the Heat to make an issue about it, but the obsession with FG% is kind of annoying to me. Most of the greatest offensive superstars to ever play are good enough where they can control their FG% with the kind of shots they take (especially against bad teams). The point isn't to play in a way to maximize your own FG%, it's to get your team the best shot given the clock situation and how the defense is positioned, and sometimes that means star players have to take shots that they might only make 40% of the time. There's a reason all that historic shooting stuff disappears in the playoffs, even for LeBron.

The Heat lead the league in eFG%.

This goes down in the playoffs because they play better teams.

Lebron takes plenty of bailout shots.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#157 » by Tim_Hardawayy » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:51 am

fatal9 wrote:It probably doesn't hurt the Heat to make an issue about it, but the obsession with FG% is kind of annoying to me. Most of the greatest offensive superstars to ever play are good enough where they can control their FG% with the kind of shots they take (especially against bad teams). The point isn't to play in a way to maximize your own FG%, it's to get your team the best shot given the clock situation and how the defense is positioned, and sometimes that means star players have to take shots that they might only make 40% of the time. There's a reason all that historic shooting stuff disappears in the playoffs, even for LeBron.


That's all well and good, but the numbers suggest LeBron IS getting his team the best shot available, the team's offensive efficiency correlates to his own on just about a 1:1 ratio. I don't think its a coincidence.

This is why I think these criticisms come off as a bit petty/silly/nitpickish, they aren't supported empirically at all, yet it should be a relatively simple thing to prove based on the numbers if the suggestion that he was limiting the team's production were actually true.

I'll say it again, its like calling Jordan a ballhog because he shot the ball a bit more than LeBron does back during his prime. And I'm sure we would have a thread, and someone would have to be that guy, the one who just has to tell you Jordan is shooting too much... and he'd warn us, "sure its working now but at some point he's going to freeze out his teammates and they're going to be in trouble", basically all the arguments about LeBron now but in reverse.

At this point, the arguments are no longer about what LeBron does wrong, its about why he hasn't hit the imaginary ceiling people have come up with in their heads. And somehow that thing gets higher every year, even though (probably because) he keeps getting better.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#158 » by MisterWestside » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:57 am

fatal9 wrote:Honestly, it's not hating. He clearly passes up shots that don't yield a high percentage for him, which sounds like a good thing, but someone still has to take those shots. Not every possession (especially in the half court) is going to yield a 50+FG% shot opportunity. When you get a good look in the half court, it's often a bad play to pass it, it can put other players in short clock situations to create a shot. Only pass a good look if you're certain you can get a better one. He mainly does it against bad teams though, because the Heat are so much better than those teams and LeBron can get basically anything he wants against them.

It probably doesn't hurt the Heat to make an issue about it, but the obsession with FG% is kind of annoying to me. Most of the greatest offensive superstars to ever play are good enough where they can control their FG% with the kind of shots they take (especially against bad teams). The point isn't to play in a way to maximize your own FG%, it's to get your team the best shot given the clock situation and how the defense is positioned, and sometimes that means star players have to take shots that they might only make 40% or 45% of the time. There's a reason all that historic shooting stuff disappears in the playoffs, even for LeBron.


I hope you don't post all of this and also rail against Allen Iverson on PC board.

But LeBron James, who also happens to be one of the greatest offensive superstars to ever play the game that you're talking about, actually plays on a damn basketball team where others are capable of scoring. If you want James to take a bunch of shots, pop in a old tape of one of his games as a Cavalier. You'll get your shots, and also a bunch of Ls because his other teammates couldn't score against a playoff defense even if someone bribed them to do it.
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#159 » by MisterWestside » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:00 am

Lakerfan17 wrote:You must have missed that 52 point triple double he tried to get in NY a few years back and the NBA had to take away a rebound because it was blatant LeBron tried to force his own miss to get a board to get the triple double.


You must've missed Kobe stat-padding his assist totals tonight. Again.

Right? :wink:
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Re: Is Lebron protecting his FG%? 

Post#160 » by Rasho_libre » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:15 am

fatal9 wrote:Honestly, it's not hating. He clearly passes up shots that don't yield a high percentage for him, which sounds like a good thing, but someone still has to take those shots. Not every possession (especially in the half court) is going to yield a 50+FG% shot opportunity. When you get a good look in the half court, it's often a bad play to pass it, it can put other players in short clock situations to create a shot. Only pass a good look if you're certain you can get a better one. He mainly does it against bad teams though, because the Heat are so much better than those teams and LeBron can get basically anything he wants against them.

It probably doesn't hurt the Heat to make an issue about it, but the obsession with FG% is kind of annoying to me. Most of the greatest offensive superstars to ever play are good enough where they can control their FG% with the kind of shots they take (especially against bad teams). The point isn't to play in a way to maximize your own FG%, it's to get your team the best shot given the clock situation and how the defense is positioned, and sometimes that means star players have to take shots that they might only make 40% or 45% of the time. There's a reason all that historic shooting stuff disappears in the playoffs, even for LeBron.

You're confusing Lebron with harden. Lebrons doesn't side to side dribble to pass it last minute to a guy with a defender on him for no apparent reason. If Lebron passes up a shot it's usually to a more open player, usually a dude like Allen who's the best three point shooter in nba history. Hell he's kind of toying with the league playing with Allen, daring teams to double him. You should know he did against our raps team and gave Ross a lesson after it.

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