If your favorite NBA player pulled a Kaepernick?

[eagereyez]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17415010/pittsburgh-steelers-lt-alejandro-villanueva-agree-colin-kaepernick-form-protest

"I don't know if the most effective way is to sit down during the national anthem with a country that's providing you freedom, providing you $16 million a year ... when there are black minorities that are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan for less than $20,000 a year."



This guy nailed it.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using RealGM mobile app

How was the military fighting to protect our freedom in Vietnam, Iraq, the Philippines, etc? How about all of the aggressive wars waged against Native Americans? I hate this notion that the military only fights to protect our freedom. Even today I'd argue that our military involvement in the Middle East has actually made us less safe. We killed 210,000 civilians in the ME, destabilized the entire region, and created thousands of new recruits for terrorist organizations (ISIS). You're not a hero just because you decide to become a killing machine for the U.S. gov. The blind military worship in this country has to come to an end.

[Patches Perry]

The very same people complaining about PC culture and how everyone gets offended so easily will absolutely flip their lid if someone steps on a piece of fabric or doesn't stand up for a song. If these are things that offend you, you should probably stop mocking those who are offended over things you deem to be silly (some of which I agree they are). You're no better.

I echo the frequent sentiments in this thread - Patriotism/Nationalism is outdated. I wish it would die a quick death.

[Rapcity_11]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17415010/pittsburgh-steelers-lt-alejandro-villanueva-agree-colin-kaepernick-form-protest

"I don't know if the most effective way is to sit down during the national anthem with a country that's providing you freedom, providing you $16 million a year ... when there are black minorities that are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan for less than $20,000 a year."



This guy nailed it.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using RealGM mobile app

That comparison literally makes no sense.

[coachcav]

He earned his money (playing a game) and he can keep it. But if he's not going to invest back into communities that struggle to get outside capital, if he's not using his fame and fortune to set up a non-profit that can tackle some of the problems in those same communities, then I'd rather not hear him get all sanctimonious. He's lecturing people who don't make in a decade what he makes in a month.

Spare me it's the government's job argument. There are things the government is good at and things the government isn't good at. Sitting around waiting for the government (read other people) to fix it is a big part of why we're in this mess.

We elect them yearly to every four years depending on the type of position. We put them in power to do their job and we pay their salaries with our taxes. Your "spare me the government job argument" is really dumb. That is what people should do right? We want things done and they are not doing we kick them out. It is the governments responsibility to fix the problems.

Instead they tell you what you want to hear and say they are going to do certain things and don't actually do most of it. We are in this mess because the majority keep putting stupid liberals and republicans in power. (see the two candidates that are representing the country)

The people you speak of are the same ones that say they are so patriotic and all for freedom then cry about it and get offended when actually an athlete uses their freedom to express themselves. They find someone way to put them down like "he was raised by white people, he doesn't know what oppression is". It is a double standard and frankly annoying. They cant even respect another person's freedom. Instead they come up with a another lousy argument to deviate from the original topic that was protested. All I am hearing they died for his freedom it is disrespectful, but yet when he uses that freedom he is unamerican and he is hates the military.

First, the citizens of this country don't all agree what the problems are and they certainly don't agree as to what the solutions are. Our government is a reflection of the voters and we have divided government for a reason. The government doesn't exist independent of the people. He said he didn't stand because America was racist. He couldn't even be bothered to identify specific examples of systemic racism or offer specific solutions. The notion that the government just needs to "fix it," when it comes to blanket statements like that, is inane. It's the type of magical thinking that leads to Trump getting the nomination. We have problems, it's someone else's job to fix them, and I'm angry "they" haven't fixed the problems the way I want them fixed even though I haven't put 10 minutes of effort into thinking about what the specific problems are or articulating potential solutions. That's how a teenager deal with his or her anger.

This is what he said.

"People don't realize what's really going on in this country. There are a lot things that are going on that are unjust. People aren't being held accountable for. And that's something that needs to change. That's something that this country stands for freedom, liberty and justice for all. And it's not happening for all right now."

He is talking about how some people are oppressed and how others for example cops who are not being held accountable for their actions. I have never heard him say or read about that he thinks america is racist. There are racist people but the entire country is not racist. He is smarter than that. It is not hard to know what he is referring to when he stated people are not being held accountable. He was vague but it doesnt take a genius to figure it out. We have the problems in the country and put the people in charge to handle those problems and do not do enough to make neccessary changes.

[PCProductions]

USA's constitution has self-correction baked into it with freedom of speech/press and the notion of overthrowing a government that isn't representing the people's best interest. Isn't what he's doing falling right in line within these core tenets?

[coachcav]

We elect them yearly to every four years depending on the type of position. We put them in power to do their job and we pay their salaries with our taxes. Your "spare me the government job argument" is really dumb. That is what people should do right? We want things done and they are not doing we kick them out. It is the governments responsibility to fix the problems.

Instead they tell you what you want to hear and say they are going to do certain things and don't actually do most of it. We are in this mess because the majority keep putting stupid liberals and republicans in power. (see the two candidates that are representing the country)

The people you speak of are the same ones that say they are so patriotic and all for freedom then cry about it and get offended when actually an athlete uses their freedom to express themselves. They find someone way to put them down like "he was raised by white people, he doesn't know what oppression is". It is a double standard and frankly annoying. They cant even respect another person's freedom. Instead they come up with a another lousy argument to deviate from the original topic that was protested. All I am hearing they died for his freedom it is disrespectful, but yet when he uses that freedom he is unamerican and he is hates the military.

First, the citizens of this country don't all agree what the problems are and they certainly don't agree as to what the solutions are. Our government is a reflection of the voters and we have divided government for a reason. The government doesn't exist independent of the people. He said he didn't stand because America was racist. He couldn't even be bothered to identify specific examples of systemic racism or offer specific solutions. The notion that the government just needs to "fix it," when it comes to blanket statements like that, is inane. It's the type of magical thinking that leads to Trump getting the nomination. We have problems, it's someone else's job to fix them, and I'm angry "they" haven't fixed the problems the way I want them fixed even though I haven't put 10 minutes of effort into thinking about what the specific problems are or articulating potential solutions. That's how a teenager deal with his or her anger.

This is what he said.

"People don't realize what's really going on in this country. There are a lot things that are going on that are unjust. People aren't being held accountable for. And that's something that needs to change. That's something that this country stands for freedom, liberty and justice for all. And it's not happening for all right now."

He is talking about how some people are oppressed and how others for example cops who are not being held accountable for their actions. I have never heard him say or read about that he thinks america is racist. There are racist people but the entire country is not racist. He is smarter than that. It is not hard to know what he is referring to when he stated people are not being held accountable. He was vague but it doesnt take a genius to figure it out. We have the problems in the country and put the people in charge to handle those problems and do not do enough to make neccessary changes.

Many people do know that the problems are. We have talked about them. Let me list them for you since you want someone not to vague.

1. Student Debt/Rising cost of tuition- putting students in massive debt for a degree that does not even make us competitive any more and became a min requirement. The solution for this is stop blowing money on pointless **** we don't need like countless wars or giving so much public money to stadiums and focus the money on developing education in lower income area and help ease the debt of current graduates.
2. National Debt
3. Terrorism-home (includes murders and shootings that happen daily by cops and civilians alike) and abroad
4. Racism,
5. Outsourcing of jobs

There are many more to list but we need to worry about our country first and not worry about so many others.

[MotownMadness]

The very same people complaining about PC culture and how everyone gets offended so easily will absolutely flip their lid if someone steps on a piece of fabric or doesn't stand up for a song. If these are things that offend you, you should probably stop mocking those who are offended over things you deem to be silly (some of which I agree they are). You're no better.

I echo the frequent sentiments in this thread - Patriotism/Nationalism is outdated. I wish it would die a quick death.

You don't have to wish as it's already dead. The dems and liberals have destroyed every bit of patriotism left just so they can brainwash all the sheep of the country into acting like everyone is racists and they are there to help. They have created even more division with no results but it gets them that vote lol.

[Winsome Gerbil]

USA's constitution has self-correction baked into it with freedom of speech/press and the notion of overthrowing a government that isn't representing the people's best interest. Isn't what he's doing falling right in line within these core tenets?

And everyone else is exercising their freedom of speech in blasting his freedom of speech.

And if his team or the NFL suffers financial consequences, that will again be everybody exercising their freedom of association/purchase.

We tolerate the Westboro Church maniacs, the white supremacist idiots and all the rest because they have "freedom of speech". That doesn't mean their speech is right, it doesn't mean we approve of it. It doesn't mean that we don't think the idiots should grow a brain stem and shut the hell up. They have the right to say it. That is as far as "freedom of speech" goes. "Freedom of speech" does not equal agree with, approve of, or not think the speaker is an *******. Somebody can say something they have the right to say and still be absolutely wrong, insulting and provocative.

[DuckIII]

The very same people complaining about PC culture and how everyone gets offended so easily will absolutely flip their lid if someone steps on a piece of fabric or doesn't stand up for a song. If these are things that offend you, you should probably stop mocking those who are offended over things you deem to be silly (some of which I agree they are). You're no better.

Spot on.

I echo the frequent sentiments in this thread - Patriotism/Nationalism is outdated. I wish it would die a quick death.

I don't agree with this though. At least on the patriotism part (I believe in globalism, but we're centuries away from that so I don't even waste my time). There is nothing inherently wrong with being patriotic, loving your nation, etc. The problem develops when people demand patriotism, which evidences a fundamental misunderstanding of the United States to begin with.

Put another way, what Kaepernick did could and possibly should itself be cited as a patriotic act. There are many ways to express love of country. And sometimes protest is one of those ways.

[MotownMadness]

God this new generation of cry babies is just beyond annoying. "My feelings hurt", "I need a safe zone", "Everyone is racists".

The generation that is crying about this is really the older ones.

I just feel bad for my kids and their kids and there's not going to be a country left after all the new spoiled little brats finish destroying it while talking about how terrible they have it. Their poor wittle feelings are hurt and they want to make a fuss about everything.

[Patches Perry]

The very same people complaining about PC culture and how everyone gets offended so easily will absolutely flip their lid if someone steps on a piece of fabric or doesn't stand up for a song. If these are things that offend you, you should probably stop mocking those who are offended over things you deem to be silly (some of which I agree they are). You're no better.

I echo the frequent sentiments in this thread - Patriotism/Nationalism is outdated. I wish it would die a quick death.

You don't have to wish as it's already dead. The dems and liberals have destroyed every bit of patriotism left just so they can brainwash all the sheep of the country into acting like everyone is racists and they are there to help. They have created even more division with no results but it gets them that vote lol.

If the "dems and liberals" have destroyed patriotism, good for them. That's a great accomplishment. The uproar about this though seems to suggest that there is still the need for some Americans to be proud of the arbitrary piece of land that they live somewhere on.

[JohnnyNightrain]

The most interesting, and telling, thing about this thread is that there are people who actually think oppression and racism aren't "real" issues because Kaepernick has money... that doesn't even remotely begin to make any sense. I'd be really curious to know what kind of life someone has lived to arrive at such an inane conclusion. You have to be pretty sheltered to even entertain those type of thoughts.

At least intelligent people can take solace in the fact that the type of people who complain about "PC culture" or "crybabies" or "safe spaces" always end up on the wrong side of history.

1860s: "I can't believe those ultra-PC northerners want to end slavery!"

1910s: "I can't believe those darn feminists want women to have the right to vote!"

2010s: "I can't believe those crybaby liberals want equal civil rights and marriage equality for gay couples!"

[Arman_tanzarian]

By virtually every statistical measurement blacks have a better life in America than any other country in the world. Kap is just a weak mind who buys the left wing narrative that blacks live oppressed lives here.

As a POC who has lived in many countries including the US for years and Canada and many others. This couldn't be further from the truth. Racism exists everywhere but man America takes the cake imo. At least compared to the developed countries.

[PCProductions]

USA's constitution has self-correction baked into it with freedom of speech/press and the notion of overthrowing a government that isn't representing the people's best interest. Isn't what he's doing falling right in line within these core tenets?

And everyone else is exercising their freedom of speech in blasting his freedom of speech.

And if his team or the NFL suffers financial consequences, that will again be everybody exercising their freedom of association/purchase.

We tolerate the Westboro Church maniacs, the white supremacist idiots and all the rest because they have "freedom of speech". That doesn't mean their speech is right, it doesn't mean we approve of it. It doesn't mean that we don't think the idiots should grow a brain stem and shut the hell up. They have the right to say it. That is as far as "freedom of speech" goes. "Freedom of speech" does not equal agree with, approve of, or not think the speaker is an *******. Somebody can say something they have the right to say and still be absolutely wrong, insulting and provocative.

Yeah I'm not gonna equate Kaep's actions to guys who promote intolerance and hate. You're on your own there, buddy.

[Arman_tanzarian]

By virtually every statistical measurement blacks have a better life in America than any other country in the world. Kap is just a weak mind who buys the left wing narrative that blacks live oppressed lives here.

So the deep-rooted, institutional racism in America is a lie because black people have a better life in America than in any other country in the world "by virtually every statistical measurement"? This is not about America vs. the rest of the world for once, your comparison doesn't mean ****.

I actually laugh when people say that but follow up with absolute "0" statistical measurement. Come on at least throw a bone in there.

[Johnny Bball]

The response to Kaepernick has been pretty laughable. Lots of nationalistic rhetoric involved. I wish Kap would have made his stance during the super bowl and not when he is struggling to stay in the league though.

As an American I really couldn't tell you why we are forced to say the pledge of allegiance everyday from the age of 5 to the age of 18. Do other countries do this?

I would bet North Korea has something similar. But western countries... no. Probably none.

[coachcav]

God this new generation of cry babies is just beyond annoying. "My feelings hurt", "I need a safe zone", "Everyone is racists".

The generation that is crying about this is really the older ones.

I just feel bad for my kids and their kids and there's not going to be a country left after all the new spoiled little brats finish destroying it while talking about how terrible they have it. Their poor wittle feelings are hurt and they want to make a fuss about everything.

New spoiled brats after they finish destroying it. Let me drop some information for you about the older generation. Due to the irresponsible actions and horrible spending decisions, our housing market nearly collapsed about 8 years ago and we went into a recession. Student debt and college costs has increased by 10s of thousands of dollars. Forcing people, to go into massive debt to even get jobs that don't really exist much anymore because you keep pissing off companies that go overseas. Social Security will be dried up long before we can even retire. The amount of terrorism that has increased due to the fact the past and current administrations keep going into the Middle East, starting pointless wars and pissing off their citizens by bombing them over and over again. Lets not forget the older generation is the one primarily electing morons like Trump and Clinton to office when most of us millenials cannot stand them or do not wish to vote for them. You want to to talk about us when we are not the ones even remotely responsible for today's problems. None of us are in any type of political power yet. When we do, you can bet we will clean up your problems. The older generation has already did a pretty good job of destroying what is left of it anyways. Remember you are the ones in power not us.

[EAS Law]

I'd be pretty disappointed.

I think that CK and his feelings are a little misdirected. I spend a lot of time reading about constitutional cases, civil rights cases, and new legislation that are all in favor of promoting diversity, granting minorities the right to participate in the systems of the country, grant access to minorities and those that would otherwise be disenfranchised to remedies and other things to make injustices right.

I have a hard time seeing the argument that the country itself upholds and in any way promotes the oppression of anyone. We make progress every day and continue to push into new and uncomfortable ground.

I understand his feelings to an extent, but I also believe that a lot of the time, there is context in certain situations that is ignored, and we are conditioned now to immediately believe that things are racially motivated beyond all doubt.

[jbk1234]

We elect them yearly to every four years depending on the type of position. We put them in power to do their job and we pay their salaries with our taxes. Your "spare me the government job argument" is really dumb. That is what people should do right? We want things done and they are not doing we kick them out. It is the governments responsibility to fix the problems.

Instead they tell you what you want to hear and say they are going to do certain things and don't actually do most of it. We are in this mess because the majority keep putting stupid liberals and republicans in power. (see the two candidates that are representing the country)

The people you speak of are the same ones that say they are so patriotic and all for freedom then cry about it and get offended when actually an athlete uses their freedom to express themselves. They find someone way to put them down like "he was raised by white people, he doesn't know what oppression is". It is a double standard and frankly annoying. They cant even respect another person's freedom. Instead they come up with a another lousy argument to deviate from the original topic that was protested. All I am hearing they died for his freedom it is disrespectful, but yet when he uses that freedom he is unamerican and he is hates the military.

First, the citizens of this country don't all agree what the problems are and they certainly don't agree as to what the solutions are. Our government is a reflection of the voters and we have divided government for a reason. The government doesn't exist independent of the people. He said he didn't stand because America was racist. He couldn't even be bothered to identify specific examples of systemic racism or offer specific solutions. The notion that the government just needs to "fix it," when it comes to blanket statements like that, is inane. It's the type of magical thinking that leads to Trump getting the nomination. We have problems, it's someone else's job to fix them, and I'm angry "they" haven't fixed the problems the way I want them fixed even though I haven't put 10 minutes of effort into thinking about what the specific problems are or articulating potential solutions. That's how a teenager deal with his or her anger.

This is what he said.

"People don't realize what's really going on in this country. There are a lot things that are going on that are unjust. People aren't being held accountable for. And that's something that needs to change. That's something that this country stands for freedom, liberty and justice for all. And it's not happening for all right now."

He is talking about how some people are oppressed and how others for example cops who are not being held accountable for their actions. I have never heard him say or read about that he thinks america is racist. There are racist people but the entire country is not racist. He is smarter than that. It is not hard to know what he is referring to when he stated people are not being held accountable. He was vague but it doesnt take a genius to figure it out. We have the problems in the country and put the people in charge to handle those problems and do not do enough to make neccessary changes.

I think his statement only further validates my critique. What specifically is wrong and how should it be addressed? If you care enough to protest in a provocative way, then you should care enough to at least articulate exactly who and what you're protesting. I mean "freedom, liberty and justice for all" - really? Probably 95% of the population agrees with that sentiment. In what ways isn't that happening? Who is responsible for it not happening? If you're going to provoke, the people you're trying to provoke shouldn't be left guessing as to why.

[RRFB]

I generally prefer to keep politics and religion out of sports, but this is kind of ridiculous. When exactly did the national anthem become this sacred ritual that everyone must participate in or be called a terrorist? Getting butthurt about this and demanding Kaepernick stands is so hypocritical and ironic. Forcing someone to stand during the anthem is far more un-American than Kaepernick exercising his right to sit. Everyone's saying he's disrespecting his country and our military, but I've yet to see anyone of importance come out and say they are personally offended by Kaep's actions. Until that happens in numbers, I have no problem with this whatsoever.